Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 138120 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#131985 Jun 5, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
You certainly have a penchant for distorting what was posted in order not to have to address the issues.To claim that there is no such thing as supernatural without any evidence to support your statement,puts you in the position of
Having to explain what science says is impossible
That energy can not be created by natural means or , claiming that energy has the ability and power within itself, to exist,,thus being eternal....
Which is what I claim about my God....
I So you spout off a lot of gibberish , and do not address the issues because in order to do so,you would either have to prove that the laws of Science are wrong, or that energy was created by supernatural means ,or that it is eternal and has always existed ,before the universe came into being.
Don't just spout nonsense and tell us what you believe.
Is energy eternal , or was it created and how?
Seems that none of your friends has the ability to address that issue..
Certainly not Witchetty...That's who addressed it to.
So you are basically saying one must believe the supernatural is possible until science can answer every question on the planet and prove it?
All that I see occurs naturally. I do not see the supernatural. I often see con artists claim they can perform supernatural acts. They are clearly swindling peoples hard earned cash, playing upon their superstitions.
I have no reason to believe the supernatural is plausible.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#131986 Jun 5, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Another of your many foolish posts.. The only fool who has introduced magic into the conversation is you, And for the very simple reason that you arer not able to address the issues in question,,,,,What is it you call that?
Yessssssss, strawman argument..........
Tell me , is energy eternal, oan it be created by natural means and if not by natural mean, then How?
Don't run and conjure up excuses.....Give us your sensical opinion, if you have one...
Ironically you demand we answer this as if you could do the same for your eternal god.
Magic is what a person does to trick others into giving him money as he claims he is supernatural. Preachers often do this. Joseph Smith did this. And what happened to Du What?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#131987 Jun 5, 2014
SNYB wrote:
<quoted text>
In the 1975 book the Macroscope: a New Scientific System, to cite one of many examples of this type of reductionist approach, French biochemist Joel de Rosnay states that:[2]
“In relation to society: we are the particles ... our glance must be directed towards the systems which surround the particles in order to better understand their interactive and evolutionary dynamics.”
So does Joel use the term "human particle"? If so, then can you answer any of the other questions I asked about the "human particle"?

One dynamic that was different in the age of hominid evolution was various climate changes in a somewhat short period of time. Adaptations happen as with all evolutionary events, and having a larger brain helped hominids find food better and develop clothes and shelter.

Back in 1975 there were few findings of other hominids. Today there is evidence of twenty two other hominids having existed. We are not so different after all.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#131988 Jun 5, 2014
pusherman_ wrote:
<quoted text> Yes, We are one with that "Beginning. I think our conscious evolves more than anything and is the connection to that " creator mind " I do NOT find it hard to believe that our " spirit" lives on after Death, As it Just may be another evolutionary step. We went from animal to Human, why not Human on to the next plain. Death of physical may open the door to Spiritual Life..I personally think the Indians were more In touch with "God" than anyone.. American Indians.( Spiritual ) I Agree with you totally..
The critical change in our brains was imagination. With imagination came the ideas of gods and all sorts of non existent beings. We have a creative mind that can create a creator. That creative mind can imagine a life after death. It does not make it so.
Simply looking at the various gods invented by man, we can see how creative humans are. Imagining them does not make them real. It simply means our imaginations are creative.
Our imaginations can connect in an emotional way to beings we create out of whole cloth. We can love anything we think is real. Heck, we can love things we do not think are real.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#131989 Jun 5, 2014
what wrote:
<quoted text>psalm 82:6 I HAVE SAID YOU ARE gods and all of you are children of the most high noise the little( g) in gods Genesis 1:26 and GOD said let us make man in our image after our likeness and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the air and over the cattle and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that upon the earth.
Yet there are virus's that we do not have dominion over. They have dominion over us.
I often here Christians cite this passage as a reason to ignore abuse of the environment and animals.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#131990 Jun 5, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
God has not changed his mind. Our heart condition had to be dealt with and is God’s concern.
2 Peter 3:9 (KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
God did not want the following people dead nor did He want them to choose death. You’re referring to those that were in the wilderness with Moses-yes?
All you mentioned…not being a virgin, fornication, rebellion, etc. is not ok…for every sin a death must occur (OT covenant).
God does not want any of us to choose death. Maybe look it like this…before Jesus and under the old testament, there was nothing restraining people’s sin. Once sin is committed it is here. The equal to it, rather the neutralizer is death. An example would be like rotten fruit, if it remains with the good fruit, the good fruit will definitely become rotten. An external law, the 10 Commandments was to help sin not fill the earth so there would be a linage for the Messiah to arrive through. Before Christ’s death there was nothing inside again (spiritually due to the spiritual death in the garden) that would prompt most to move away from the rotten fruit. Many would just remain and become rotten too. After Jesus Christ and the debt for ALL sin paid for through the death of Jesus Christ (and resurrection), the spiritual life needed to prompt one to want or desire to move from rotten fruit is restored through Christ. What is meant to restrain is internal again, on the inside, of the one who receives Jesus Christ.
Love your enemy is given in the new covenant (or new agreement). But, God always have and always will love us and has compassion for us (see the first murder recorded in the Bible). It’s just that we take God’s silence as His approval, especially regarding sinful things and it is not good for us or innocent people.
The OT covenant (agreement) had its purpose and the NT covenant (agreement) fulfilled that purpose.
There is so much more to this.
It is clear to me, the human mind is no different today than it was three thousand years ago. It did not change two thousand years ago. Men today still sometimes go with the bad fruit as they did in OT times. Never was a death penalty fair and just for worshipping a golden calf.
Muslims do not believe Jesus ended the old rules. So unwittingly you simply back up their reasons for the death penalty for petty things. Ironically you also insult them by claiming they have nothing restraining their sin.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#131991 Jun 5, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Those who choose heaven have exercised free will.
Making a choice does not mean you get what you wish for. Do you think the 9/11 terrorists will get 72 virgins in heaven? They faithfully believed the ideas of their god.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#131992 Jun 5, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You may not care whether Muslims and Christians have the same God but it is very important to note they each worship a different God.
Killing for religious reasons is not what happened in the Old Testament of the Bible. Just looking without know the person, their mind, their heart, their past, their present, their future, etc. There is more to life than what we can see, think or feel.
What happened in 9/11 is was an terrible injustice. Many innocent people died and their lives cut short. Their destiny on earth terminated by people whose core reason for doing what they did is evil. Even, the reason many terrorists kill themselves...evil.
I asked a question recently regarding one being king and starting a new kingdom...I pose this same question to you, if you have chance to locate it?
What would be your judgment as king and judge?
So you do not see killing over worshipping a golden calf Is a religious reason?
What reasons do you feel were behind 9/11? Evil is not really an explanation.
I think the three thousand who died for innocently worshipping as they believed had their lives cut short unjustly. And I am talking about the calf worshippers.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#131993 Jun 5, 2014
Mike D wrote:
It does not matter when, killing because you think a god wants you to so is evil. Always was and always will be.
Thus the Moses of the bible and many of his followers were doing evil. The horror is, you feel it was good not evil.
You simply have the sort of blinders on that the 9/11 terrorists did.
I have on no blinders regarding this topic.

As well, what I believe and what terrorists believe will never be the same....unless they repent to the one whose true nature is God, accepts Jesus Christ and the life he freely gives. There is more to this...

What took place in the OT is not people killing because they thought God wanted them to. Events that took place did so according to that time. Our history, during the western years, didn't people pull out guns, shot and kill alot. It was that time, not a good one but it was the state in which people were (so to speak).{Interruptions-sorry, I lost my train of thought but hope you get the gist}

I did not express my feelings about the Moses account, I shared "little" of the circumstances that surrounded what took place.

I feel innocent people should not suffer and be killed but to obtain this, the guilty must be sentenced.

Example: A man lived in one city and killed close to 100 people. Unfortunately, he escaped. The man made it to another city on the other side of the USA. In this new city, something happened that brought about a true change in the man's heart and in his life. He killed no one since he fled from the former city. In fact, his co-workers all held him in high esteem. He was kind to his neighbors, helpful and displayed genuine compassion for others. The police from the former city received tips on his location in the new city. When the man was at his workplace, a large number of police officers surrounded the building, to include SWAT teams. The man was apprehended and arrested without incident. Though, the people in this new city was stunned that the police would have so many officers present for this very gentle man. The people in this new city verbally defended this, as many were still in shock at the number of officers present at the man's arrest. They knew of the man's present but they did not know his past. It was made known that this man killed close to 100 people in his former city. Many people immediately turned against him and demanded his execution, while others still doubted whether or not the man could really do such horrible acts. Regardless of what the people may have knew or felt, the man committed these crimes. It was mandatory that this man face sentencing, otherwise it is not justice to the ones that were killed by this man.

The point is that we can only see and speak to a certain moment in time...God sees from the beginning to the end. What looks one way to us is not necessarily the way that it truly is.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#131994 Jun 5, 2014
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
What kind of "god" doens't get what it wants?
Either a very poor excuse for one or one that doesn't exist.
The latter makes more sense.

You should notice that you do mental contortions trying to make sense of the babble.

Only in your head, honey.
If there was a benevolent, caring invisible superbeing, the world would not be as it is.
Try to twist it all you want, but that is a fact.
There are many gods and many have been deceived.
The one whose true nature is God ONLY wants what is best for us.

If one forces their husband/wife to love them is that love? NO, it is not.
God does not force anyone us. The choice is ours...it is our responsibility and we are accountable for the choice we make, like it or not. This does not make God non-existent.

My dear, there are no contortions or babbling here...maybe elsewhere?

There is a loving, caring and omnipresent God, and the world and its state does not reflect his non-presence. But, it reflect the bad choices that human beings make, even when it is known from the start the choice is bad. How many people smoke and is quite aware of the effects it has on the lungs and still choose to smoke? We, people, have a responsibility in how the world is today, as we were given dominion over it. So, how is God to blame?
spaceship

Roseville, CA

#131995 Jun 5, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>

I feel innocent people should not suffer and be killed but to obtain this, the guilty must be sentenced.
YAA will be punished according to your quote. YAA believes that hurricanes, tornadoes, floods and fires cause by god to kill innocent along with guilty if America does not turn back to god. So you disagree with god about killing innocent people?

Are you a New Testament Christian aka NTCC? If you're ashamed to admit it, Jesus will be ashamed of you.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#131996 Jun 5, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Are you saying what I call energy is not energy? I have no idea why you feel a complex god is more plausible than energy always existing. You have yet to tell us why you feel the idea I said and science mostly agrees with is implausible. I guess you feel scientists are all stupid and you are smarter than all of them. I will go with the plausibility science deduces, and you can go with the plausibility of ancient men's superstitions.
BTW, I have no idea what questions I did not address.
I have always maintained that something always existed" eternal" ,that something being God . You now think that energy always existed
You have no choice ,if somethind did not always exist , that WOULD MEAN THAT NOTHING CREATED THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING.

I fully understand the reasons why you evaded the differences I pointed out , the properties I attribute to God vs energy's only property being that it can be converted..
The universe came into existence and something brought it into existence

Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity means that the universe had a beginning and was not eternal as he had previously believed (Einstein was originally a pantheist). His theory proved that the universe is not a cause, but instead one big effect—something brought it into existence. Einstein disliked his end result so much that he introduced a “fudge factor” into his theory that allowed for an eternal universe. But there was only one problem. His fudge factor required a division by zero in his calculations—a mathematical error any good math student knows not to make. When discovered by other mathematicians, Einstein admitted his error calling it “the greatest blunder of my life.” After his acknowledgment, and upon confirming further research that showed the universe expanding just as his theory of relativity predicted, Einstein bowed to the fact that the universe is not eternal and said that he wanted “to know how God created the world.”

Further, it should be understood that every effect must resemble its cause. This is because, simply put, you cannot give what you do not have, so it is impossible for an effect to possess something its originating cause did not have. That being the case, how can one believe that an impersonal, amoral, purposeless, and meaningless universe accidentally created beings that are full of personality, morals, meaning, and purpose? Only mind can create mind. In the end it is either matter before mind or mind before matter, and all scientific, philosophical, and reasonable evidence points to the latter.

In conclusion, we find that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning, just as the Bible states, and that a Cause must exist that resembles all we know today. As Lord Kelvin, a British scientist once said, "If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God."

I do not follow superstition , calling it that is one of your many excuses for distorting what I state.
You , who are an expert of the double standard are very quick at accusing others of that which only you are guilty

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#131997 Jun 5, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
There is a loving, caring and omnipresent God, and the world and its state does not reflect his non-presence.
It quite clearly does. Loving beings show compassion and seek to reduce suffering.
chinwendu1 wrote:
But, it reflect the bad choices that human beings make, even when it is known from the start the choice is bad. How many people smoke and is quite aware of the effects it has on the lungs and still choose to smoke? We, people, have a responsibility in how the world is today, as we were given dominion over it. So, how is God to blame?
You'll have to explain how natural disasters, disease, viruses, and dangerous animals (among other things) are the fault of human choices.
SNYB

London, KY

#131998 Jun 5, 2014
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Environment.....
But ....we share so much of the same environment as so many others in the animal/mammal kingdom....so umm..no. no that is just not quite 100 percent logical.
SNYB

London, KY

#131999 Jun 5, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So does Joel use the term "human particle"? If so, then can you answer any of the other questions I asked about the "human particle"?
One dynamic that was different in the age of hominid evolution was various climate changes in a somewhat short period of time. Adaptations happen as with all evolutionary events, and having a larger brain helped hominids find food better and develop clothes and shelter.
Back in 1975 there were few findings of other hominids. Today there is evidence of twenty two other hominids having existed. We are not so different after all.
Except for those communication And levels of logic and rationality type things......
pitbullie

Versailles, KY

#132000 Jun 5, 2014
The Bible starts out not making any sense, from the very beginning.

For example, in Geneis One, the "Elohim" make men and women in THEIR image. Elohim translates as a pantheon of gods and goddesses, BTW

Then Yahweh creates Adam and Eve in his own private little preserve, Eden. They have 3 sons, one of which kills another. Then these 2 men somehow start their own race. No women are mentioned.

From all accounts, Yahweh seems to be a minor, nasty local deity of some sort.

I think maybe I'd rather be descended from the first group, the pro-diversity one. But you don't hear anymore about them. Just one reason the Bible makes no sense at all.
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I have always maintained that something always existed" eternal" ,that something being God . You now think that energy always existed
You have no choice ,if somethind did not always exist , that WOULD MEAN THAT NOTHING CREATED THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING.
I fully understand the reasons why you evaded the differences I pointed out , the properties I attribute to God vs energy's only property being that it can be converted..
The universe came into existence and something brought it into existence
Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity means that the universe had a beginning and was not eternal as he had previously believed (Einstein was originally a pantheist). His theory proved that the universe is not a cause, but instead one big effect—something brought it into existence. Einstein disliked his end result so much that he introduced a “fudge factor” into his theory that allowed for an eternal universe. But there was only one problem. His fudge factor required a division by zero in his calculations—a mathematical error any good math student knows not to make. When discovered by other mathematicians, Einstein admitted his error calling it “the greatest blunder of my life.” After his acknowledgment, and upon confirming further research that showed the universe expanding just as his theory of relativity predicted, Einstein bowed to the fact that the universe is not eternal and said that he wanted “to know how God created the world.”
Further, it should be understood that every effect must resemble its cause. This is because, simply put, you cannot give what you do not have, so it is impossible for an effect to possess something its originating cause did not have. That being the case, how can one believe that an impersonal, amoral, purposeless, and meaningless universe accidentally created beings that are full of personality, morals, meaning, and purpose? Only mind can create mind. In the end it is either matter before mind or mind before matter, and all scientific, philosophical, and reasonable evidence points to the latter.
In conclusion, we find that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning, just as the Bible states, and that a Cause must exist that resembles all we know today. As Lord Kelvin, a British scientist once said, "If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God."
I do not follow superstition , calling it that is one of your many excuses for distorting what I state.
You , who are an expert of the double standard are very quick at accusing others of that which only you are guilty
curious

Ocoee, FL

#132001 Jun 5, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Well yes we know energy exists...... unlike your god.
Then you claim energy MUST be created supernaturally. Clearly this is simply your biases superstition and not a fact or scientific principle.
We keep saying the energy may be eternal, so why keep asking how the other ways would be plausible? We keep saying the eternal energy theory is the most plausible. Again, why ask how the other ways are plausible?
Now if you could address my question that you keep dodging. Why would a complex god need not be created? You insist on us explaining all, yet you cannot explain your superstition. Double standards.
See how quickly you intentionally attribute to me claims I did not make. When did I claim that energy must be created supernaturally?
Your attempt to distort what I stated in order to buttress your irrational argument is evident.
You are noted for using that tactic.
I have already adrressed many times why I believe my position is more plausible.
, it should be understood that every effect must resemble its cause. This is because, simply put, you cannot give what you do not have, so it is impossible for an effect to possess something its originating cause did not have.

That being the case, how can one believe that nonlivig ,nonconscious and nonintelligent matter an impersonal, amoral, purposeless, and meaningless universe accidentally created beings that are alive , conscious and intelligent full of personality, morals, meaning, and purpose? Only mind can create mind. In the end it is either matter before mind or mind before matter, and all scientific, philosophical, and reasonable evidence points to the latter.

Your supposed logic and reasoning abilities have not persuaded you to think that energy is eternal ,it has forced you to think that because your faith provides you no other choice...
In the meanwhile you must continue conjuring up and inventing nonsensical excuses in order to buttress your irrational and illogical beliefs..
BTW... I see where Pre K failed to respong to this post and elected to respond to what I posted witchetty , which she in turn refused to respond to......
That seems to be the plan ,send some other moniker out to take the heat for what you can't handle and in the process distort the meaning of what was originally posted...
Deceitful,cowardly and conniving behaviour..........

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#132002 Jun 5, 2014
Quantummist wrote:
At least you admit there is more than one God... So if there are two... Could there be 3... How about 2,456,864 Gods ? Maybe the God you worship is a different God than the guy on your left and another for the guy on the right sitting beside you on the Pew.... Maybe every person on the planet has their own personal God assigned to them at birth ....
It can get Complicated when one starts saying My Gods better than Your God....
I can't say how many god there are but you rightly expressed a very high number. People try to make many things their gods like...wood, metal, concrete, gold, silver, money, status quo, actor/actresses, position, people's approval, musicians, sex, drugs, SELF, etc. But are any of these things naturally God?

If everyone was assigned a god at birth, complicated wouldn't begin to describe it. God is not the author of confusion and that scenario would be sheer chaos and confusion. To me, it is not about one God being better than the other. If one has something good, sharing it is just the caring thing to do. The relationship between best-friends is unique. In looking for someone I would consider as a best-friend, I would need to know that the person has my best interest at heart, not just their interest alone. We would be able to talk about everything with no judgment but opinions, advice, experience. When I mess up my best-friend would tell me, not to be mean but so I can make corrections because I am accountable for my own actions. The direction of life my best-friend wants to share with me should not include death or anything that can kill, steal or destroy me. A relationship with God reveals who He really is and His intentions; just as a relationship with a best-friend reveals who they are and their intentions. I know without doubt that many things people make into their gods can not offer what is basically good them or their life because the end result is not good.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#132003 Jun 5, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
There is a loving, caring and omnipresent God, and the world and its state does not reflect his non-presence.
The_Box wrote:
It quite clearly does. Loving beings show compassion and seek to reduce suffering.

chinwendu1 wrote:
But, it reflect the bad choices that human beings make, even when it is known from the start the choice is bad. How many people smoke and is quite aware of the effects it has on the lungs and still choose to smoke? We, people, have a responsibility in how the world is today, as we were given dominion over it. So, how is God to blame?
You'll have to explain how natural disasters, disease, viruses, and dangerous animals (among other things) are the fault of human choices.

[QUOTE who="The_Box"]
You'll have to explain how natural disasters, disease, viruses, and dangerous animals (among other things) are the fault of human choices.
Clearly it does not. We are still alive, little ones are being born, people are living in unity, people are being healed miraculously and via physicians, there are people who are helping others as they can, there are kind people, compassionate people, etc. THOUGH the negative is present. If you believe the bad shows God does not exist, then the good should show that God does exist, it that correct? God is a loving being and seeks to reduce our suffering, sort of the same way a loving parent seeks to reduce the suffering of their child...but the child has to head the advice.

I have shared in a previous post how things changed with the entrance of sin. Death and many other things (to include birth pains) entered the world with sin.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#132004 Jun 5, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
Eating at McDonalds vs. KFC is free will. Paying the mortgage instead of buying a big screen is free will. Those who choose superstition over reality exercise delusion.
True, true and true

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