Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 161230 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#132042 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The article is entitled, "10 Scientists Who Claim to Have Proof about the Existence of God".
It is only the article I am reading...the lewd advertisements or any other article, I paid no attention. I apologize to you and all if offended.
The sidebar ads are irrelevant. The "10 scientists.." list does nothing to support your superstitions.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#132043 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you have no opinion that you want to put on record,just as I thought.
You are unable and unwilling to explain your nonposition.
Perhaps you should explain that first,if you dare..
I have already explained my position , was not afraid to do so and need not explain it again.
You and the other atheists are in a bind and tied up in cordian knots...
In order to defend your faith you have to totally contradict your beliefs.
You have claimed that my belief that God is eternal is based on magic and superstition,now,because of necessity , you must claim that energy might be eternal since
energy can not be created by natural means...
If it can not be created by natural means, then you have 2 other options , either created by supernatural means or has always existed, having the power within itself to self exist,making it supernatural..
That is the same claim God made about Himself which you claim is Magic..
How are you going to clear that up in a sensible manner , instead of resorting to evasive tactics,conjuring up excuses and nonsense... You believe in Science then give us your Scientific explanation...And don't send "DUKET or Witchetty on a fools mission to respond on your behalf..I am wise to that tactic
Have the courage to do it yourself.....
That's "Gordian Knot"

As cleaved in two by Alexander.

The same way we use the blade of Occam's Razor to remove all superfluous deities. That includes yours.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#132044 Jun 6, 2014
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Been there done that and even have some t-shirts.... I don't Believe in Anything so not going to start now....
Still Praying for you :-)
Have a Great day!
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#132045 Jun 6, 2014
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
No it is not... It may be all you need to know, but I have higher goals than that....
Some people are content with knowing a electric motor goes roundy roundy.... I am not... I want to know how the rotor and stators form magnetic fields and How the em waves measured as current works, How the steel of the frame is mined, processed, smelted and machined... How the bearings are made from raw material to end product... and every sub systems from raw earth to the end product that powers my ceiling fan...
You forget....
I am among other things....
An Electronics tech,
a computer programmer, and
a manufacturing specialist!
Whether God said, or poof by the big bang means nothing of why
things are here, and what they do....
except to Satan, and Gosh.... People would rather "Believe" it
all happened by chance rather than God....
How many hand grenades do you think it would take to build a house???
God is real... and I say that as one who KNOWS!
They can only speculate!

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#132046 Jun 6, 2014
I think we each need to define what "honoring" means to us and find a definition we are comfortable with. To some, it might mean limited contact, an occasional card, or a brief visit. To others, it might mean not calling the police and having your parent,family,relatives and friends arrested for child abuse, molestation, stealing from you, using your social security number to take out credit cards and ruining your credit, stalking you, or any of the dozens of other prosecutable crimes committed against many of us. And to still others, it might mean letting your abusers live their lives in peace and be who they are, while you live yours in peace on the other side of the country. Like someone used to say, "You stay in your backyard, and we'll stay in our backyard."

But one thing honoring does NOT mean is that you have no choice but to tolerate their abuse. Honoring does not mean that you never confront, or set limits on someone's behavior. Honoring does not mean you have to give up all hope of ever being treated nicely, and sacrifice your own health and well-being for an abuser's sadistic enjoyment.

Even if you must divorce your parent, family,relatives and friends and never see them again, it doesn't mean that you're dishonoring them. It just means that you accept that" they are the way they are and that they'll never change," which in truth is honoring them as people whose right it is to be everything they want to be, that you're ok with it, and even that you still feel for them, but you just can't stick around for it anymore. Given the unfortunate reality of their innate hatefulness, you can still choose to set limits on them or have no contact with them, because they are destructive people. You can honor them by accepting them for who they are, not expecting change, and letting them live their own way in peace, but at the same time honor yourself and your own right to live in peace as well. Which means choosing NOT to be in their presence when they are abusing you.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#132047 Jun 6, 2014
God is not telling us to honor abusers, who don’t deserve to be honored. It helps to remind ourselves that God does not do nonsensical, irrational, or contradictory things. He NEVER rewards evil, and he NEVER says anything to us that would make it easier for evil to thrive, or for abusers to get away with their cruelty. It doesn’t make sense that our God, who is All Good, would tell us to encourage and reward evil. If it doesn’t make sense and we do not feel at peace in our spirit about it, then it is not from God.

Similarly, what is written in the Bible about family relationships, between parents and children, husbands and wives, and other family members and relatives are God’s instructions for family life in general, but specific circumstances would call for a different, and perhaps even totally opposite, response from us. The Bible is written for GODLY people in GODLY families. It is the Lord’s instructions for godly marriages and a godly family life. It is how God wants his children to behave toward ONE ANOTHER, to be able live together in peace and harmony and show the love of God to EACH OTHER through his grace. It simply doesn’t apply to abusive families, and it CAN’T apply to abusive families. The abusers in our families aren’t reading it anyway, and if they are, they’re certainly not obeying it. You cannot treat an evil person the same way you can treat a godly, righteous person, and expect a peaceful, joyful, godly family to result. God’s instructions to HIS CHILDREN on how to treat one another were never written to benefit abusers. The Bible was not written for the children of Satan to twist to suit their own purposes, and it’s up to the children of God to not allow this.

Just as we are not to give honor to hypocritical, evil teachers and preachers, and just as we are not to obey and submit to evil rulers and authorities, neither are we to honor evil and abusive parent,family and relatives who are not deserving of honor.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#132048 Jun 6, 2014
Telling the TRUTH is NOT dishonoring someone. I have always believed that if you don’t want anyone to know what you did, then just DON’T DO IT! If an abuser is so sure that he’s right and that his behavior is justified, then he should have no problem telling everyone, or having YOU tell everyone, what he did, and still holding his head up high. He should WANT you to tell the truth about him to everyone you meet, since it will only make him look good! But if he’s ashamed for others to hear about the things he’s said and done, then maybe he needs to reassess how he acts. If you hide what someone does or cover up the truth, THAT would be dishonoring him, because it would mean that you were ashamed of him or embarrassed by him. An abuser has no right to become angry when you rebuke him, or to accuse you of “dishonoring” him, if you are speaking the truth. HE is the one who did what he did, YOU only told the truth about it.

One of the best ways to honor someone is to help them be the very best person that they can be. Some people need a little push along the path to righteousness and godliness. Allowing God's law of Sowing and Reaping to bring evil people to repentance is more beneficial to them than interfering with the Natural Consequences of their behavior by giving them a free ride. The Bible tells us to rebuke evil and try to turn sinners from their wicked ways in the hopes of saving them (Ezekiel 33:7-9). This is the biggest favor and honor we could do for them.

However, the Bible also tells us not to do this repeatedly, but no more than once or twice (Titus 3:10-11, Matthew 10: 13-16, Proverbs 23: 9, etc.) Then we are to walk away, "and leave them to God's Natural Consequences." We have treated them in an honorable manner (honored them)," and now our obligation is over."

We have learned to care for them from a distance. The same is true of honoring. If your parent, family ,relatives and friends refuse to respect your boundaries and choose to continue mistreating you, then you can limit or end, if necessary, your time with them, "honor" them from a safe distance, and still be obedient to God’s Word. You can speak the truth about your parent,family,relatives and friends at all times and not be dishonoring them. Only people who want carte blanche to get away with anything would accuse you of not honoring them simply because you spoke the truth and set" healthy boundaries" in your relationship.

GOD BLESS
unknown

Mount Vernon, KY

#132049 Jun 6, 2014
seen ole Sidney sams yesterday evening! he sure has aged and as ugly as ever! sick man in his mind.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#132050 Jun 6, 2014
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
And that is where you make the mistake of 3 dimensional thinking... You continue to think that if a Thing is Here and Now it had to Come from Somewhere Before... But that whole though process fails when considering the Concept in E=MC2... That equation sets the concept.... Energy equals Matter times the Speed of Light Squared so Energy Can be Converted into matter and Matter can be converted into Energy... SO if Matter converts 100% into Energy what do you Have... You would say Nothing... buy it is Actually Something... at tat point absent any matter at all in the Universe Time does not exist... So there no such concept as Before... the very fabric of space/time Requires Matter...
Reality is that the very concept of "Nothing" is a false human construct... Because there is not and never has been any point in the Universe where there is "Nothing" ... Inside a bell jar in a Perfect Vacuum there is still Something... Find a place in deep space , put a bell jar and add a vacuum greater than the vacuum of space and there is still "Something" in that bell jar... You can have a space with No Things in it but there is no such thing as "Nothing"
Over half of the "Theories" on Big bang... require an outside source...
Something from an alternate universe....
YES! there is an alternate universe... the One God Lives in!

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#132051 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
That is your erroneous interpretation, and the Spirit of God hovered above the waters,His Spirit, not God himself....
It's the interpretation of all Jews since Judaism began. Your attempts to play semantic word game with passages in the OT do not change the fast that Judaism has no trinity and never recognized Jesus or a distinct Holy Spirit.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#132052 Jun 6, 2014
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to clarify.... From the stand point of Science...
A Scientific Theory is the last step in the Scientific Method... and there are 5 steps in the scientific method of theory production... Some state 4 but I think 5 is more constructive...
1) Observation of a phenomenon (This cannot be a casual observation and must be reproducible and verifiable to preclude illusion and/or delusion of the observer)
2) Form a Hypothesis that attempts to explain the observed
3) Collect evidence, data and build models to support the hypothesis and make predictions based on collected evidence, data and models
4) Perform Experiments to validate the hypothesis by confirming the predictions by means that are Reproducible, Verifiable and Testable by any and all experimenters...
a) if such experiment fails to give positive results that validate the predictions the Hypothesis must be scraped and the observation step on must be redone from the start
b) if the experiments verify the prediction and can be reproduced repeatably then the Theory can be formed.
5) Theory is formed and includes all reproducible, verifiable and Testable evidence so that said theory can be debated and tested into the future as new evidence is acquired to be modified or cast aside ...
"1) Observation of a phenomenon (This cannot be a casual observation and must be reproducible and verifiable to preclude illusion and/or delusion of the observer)"

Blows the crap out of BB, AND Evlutional.....as
YOU'VE NEVER Observed, and you CANNOT reproduce it...
It is ONLY Conjecture... naval gazing at it's finest...
case closed!

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#132053 Jun 6, 2014
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>"1) Observation of a phenomenon (This cannot be a casual observation and must be reproducible and verifiable to preclude illusion and/or delusion of the observer)"
Blows the crap out of BB, AND Evlutional.....as
YOU'VE NEVER Observed, and you CANNOT reproduce it...
Both the Big Bang and Evolution follow the process outlined. The phenomenon in question for each is the state of the universe including its expansion and the diversity of organisms on Earth.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#132054 Jun 6, 2014
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the interpretation of all Jews since Judaism began. Your attempts to play semantic word game with passages in the OT do not change the fast that Judaism has no trinity and never recognized Jesus or a distinct Holy Spirit.
It is also a fact that the problem with the Jews as with atheists is that they fail to understand God's written word
"Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed."
The evidence is there,in the Old Testament , you are unable to refute it , and ignored it completely , did not address it and simply dismissed it in order to defend your faith.
If you care to give us an explanation of the totality of what I posted , do so.
No explanation is a clear indication that you don't know what you are talking about

“Did Jesus Christ pre-exist in Old Testament times?
“Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name if you know?”

“The Lord said to my Lord,'Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool.'” Jesus asked the Pharisees how the Christ can be Son of David if David here calls Him Lord. It's also pretty obvious, just like the prophecy we read in Zechariah, that there are two beings here both referred to as Lord.
In Zechariah 2:8-9 we read a very interesting Old Testament prophecy that shows that there are at least two members in the God Family both referred to as the Lord of hosts.

Zechariah writes:“For thus says the Lord of hosts:'He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he who touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me.'” The Lord of hosts here says:“Then you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me [the Lord of hosts].”

Let's read what Jesus claimed about Himself over in John 8:56:

“'Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.' Then the Jews said to Him,'You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?' Jesus said to them,'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple”(John 8:56-58).
Jesus claimed to have seen Abraham and when the Jews questioned Him about His claim to have seen Abraham He said that before Abraham was I AM.
When God first revealed Himself to Moses in Exodus 3, Moses asked Him what His name was.'I AM WHO I AM,' was the awesome reply.'Thus you shall say to the children of Israel,'I AM has sent me to you.'' Jesus clearly claimed to be this same Being—the 'I AM' of Exodus 3:14, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (verse 15).

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#132055 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
It is also a fact that the problem with the Jews as with atheists is that they fail to understand God's written word
Jews don't understand Judaism? That's a funny claim.
curious wrote:
The evidence is there,in the Old Testament , you are unable to refute it , and ignored it completely , did not address it and simply dismissed it in order to defend your faith.
You provided 3 references. They were all junk.

Proverbs 30:4 is a rhetorical question.
Zechariah 2 has the angel talking. There aren't two deities.
Anything from the NT is obvious irrelevant to Judaism.

It is simply undeniable that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not part of Judaism and never have been. If they were, they would have been explicitly mentioned, don't you think?
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#132056 Jun 6, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
That's "Gordian Knot"
As cleaved in two by Alexander.
The same way we use the blade of Occam's Razor to remove all superfluous deities. That includes yours.
Well,you are no Alexander, you are still tied up in a Gordian knot and YOUR Occam's razor is dull,rusty and made of paper mache

You have not removed myGod. By what you have recently posted all you have done is contradict your recent beliefs.
You now believe that energy is eternal? Why did you change your mind? Because you had no choice.
Energy can not be created by natural means, therefore,it can only be created by Supernatural means ,, But you claim not to believe in the supernatural, that it is magic and delusional.
As an atheist , you are now confronted with a dilema,,, Was energy created by a supernatural Being? you can't admit to that so , you now are forced to believe that energy is eternal , needs no creator and has the power to exist within itself,, That is supernatural.
Invention is the mother of necessity and you found it necessary to contradict yourself and invent some lame excuse in order to defend your faith

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132057 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have on no blinders regarding this topic.
As well, what I believe and what terrorists believe will never be the same....unless they repent to the one whose true nature is God, accepts Jesus Christ and the life he freely gives. There is more to this...
What took place in the OT is not people killing because they thought God wanted them to. Events that took place did so according to that time. Our history, during the western years, didn't people pull out guns, shot and kill alot. It was that time, not a good one but it was the state in which people were (so to speak).{Interruptions-sorry, I lost my train of thought but hope you get the gist}
I did not express my feelings about the Moses account, I shared "little" of the circumstances that surrounded what took place.
I feel innocent people should not suffer and be killed but to obtain this, the guilty must be sentenced.
Example: A man lived in one city and killed close to 100 people. Unfortunately, he escaped. The man made it to another city on the other side of the USA. In this new city, something happened that brought about a true change in the man's heart and in his life. He killed no one since he fled from the former city. In fact, his co-workers all held him in high esteem. He was kind to his neighbors, helpful and displayed genuine compassion for others. The police from the former city received tips on his location in the new city. When the man was at his workplace, a large number of police officers surrounded the building, to include SWAT teams. The man was apprehended and arrested without incident. Though, the people in this new city was stunned that the police would have so many officers present for this very gentle man. The people in this new city verbally defended this, as many were still in shock at the number of officers present at the man's arrest. They knew of the man's present but they did not know his past. It was made known that this man killed close to 100 people in his former city. Many people immediately turned against him and demanded his execution, while others still doubted whether or not the man could really do such horrible acts. Regardless of what the people may have knew or felt, the man committed these crimes. It was mandatory that this man face sentencing, otherwise it is not justice to the ones that were killed by this man.
The point is that we can only see and speak to a certain moment in time...God sees from the beginning to the end. What looks one way to us is not necessarily the way that it truly is.
So again you seem to think the three thousand people Moses had killed were surely guilty of something worth the death penalty, but the bible leaves that part out? It states why they were killed. You simply cannot believe your main prophet would have people killed for the simple act of worshipping another god.

By your reasoning, I can see how the terrorists justified 9/11.

BTW I did not get the gist of that one paragraph. It made no sense at all.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132058 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Look where your atheism has gotten you...You are now contradicting what you previously claimed were your beliefs. Your faith leaves you no other choice.
We know that energy can not be created by natural laws..
If energy is eternal,it needs no creator,meaning it has life within itself ,making it supernatural.
That is what I claimed about my God, which you called magic and superstition.
You always wanted to know, Who created God?
So,if energy lies outside the bounds of natural law,if it existed before the universe came into being, then it needs be supernatural or created by a supernatural power....
That cordian knot your faith has tied on you has you all tied up with no place to go other than contradicting yourself
BTW , I only now hear you claim that energy is eternal.. You never made that claim before.
Necessity is the mother of invention and out of necessity you had to invent that excuse.
The idea of eternal energy defies no scientific principles. It is why it thought to be likely.

Energy is not supernatural. Just because it is not fully known how life came to be, it does not mean the energy was magic. Again you simply insert magic to anything that is not known. It is surely how your god was invented. The ancients did not know much science, so they invented gods to put into the gaps. You are doing the same.
spaceship

Rancho Cordova, CA

#132059 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The article is entitled, "10 Scientists Who Claim to Have Proof about the Existence of God".
It is only the article I am reading...the lewd advertisements or any other article, I paid no attention. I apologize to you and all if offended.
I'm reading some bad stuff about the NTCC. Do you agree with the claims?

The strength of NTCC lies not in their inspiration, nor with the power of their message, but with their exclusive claim to the truth. Those who buy in to this claim are prevented from thinking that escape is possible without leaving God. Such thinking would create a vulnerability, a weakness in the armor with which the organization equips itself. Such an unhealthy spiritual environment should not be tolerated, nor should it exist in the first place. The best thing to do for your own personal well-being and that of your family is to part ways with this group. If you think that by remaining involved you will eventually help other people come to their senses, you are entertaining a self-destructive fantasy based upon false hope.

But be informed: nobody is allowed to leave under favorable circumstances. You risk the loss of friends, sometimes even your spouse, because the church believes in the preeminent importance of its own cohesion above all other considerations. Do not think it will be easy. We will not attempt to deceive you into thinking there will be no exit trauma. But here are a few things you can keep in mind in order to make the transition to the real world just a bit more smooth.

NTCC considers disloyalty to the organization as grounds for divorce, and will encourage your spouse to leave you and remarry someone within the organizational fold. They have their members duped into believing that they cannot be saved if they leave, and your spouse will very likely be inclined to view your newfound insights as a symptom of spiritual death. Do not allow the organization to play this game with you. If you cannot convince your spouse to see the truth, do not be overly forceful. Stay close to the situation, and as time passes, you will find opportunities to impart eyesight to them.

Sounds like the NTCC has the makings of a cult. Does any NTCC members have the courage to refute these claims. If not maybe you're order not to refute them, that would be very cult like of the NTCC.

http://ntcc.livejournal.com/

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132060 Jun 6, 2014
chinwendu1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a book which gives a list of how scientific evidence reveals God's existence...problem is I do not have it with me. I only recall about the earth's position, and if it was forward more than it is to the sun, the earth would burn up; and if we were back further than it is, the earth would freeze. In addition, there were many things that cannot be explained medically or scientifically but are. In trying to locate the information online, I came across this link. I will continue going through this link as time permits...what is your view?
http://www.oddee.com/item_98822.aspx
Statistically, a planet existing in the sweet spot in relation to the sun is high, in relation to the number of suns and planets in the universe. There could be billions of planets with life.
If there was real evidence of a god, it would be front page news. Gaps of knowledge are not evidence. Any real scientist knows this. Many ignorant religious persons are fooled by con artists.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#132061 Jun 6, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
I have always maintained that something always existed" eternal" ,that something being God . You now think that energy always existed
You have no choice ,if somethind did not always exist , that WOULD MEAN THAT NOTHING CREATED THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHING.
I fully understand the reasons why you evaded the differences I pointed out , the properties I attribute to God vs energy's only property being that it can be converted..
The universe came into existence and something brought it into existence
Albert Einstein’s theory of relativity means that the universe had a beginning and was not eternal as he had previously believed (Einstein was originally a pantheist). His theory proved that the universe is not a cause, but instead one big effect—something brought it into existence. Einstein disliked his end result so much that he introduced a “fudge factor” into his theory that allowed for an eternal universe. But there was only one problem. His fudge factor required a division by zero in his calculations—a mathematical error any good math student knows not to make. When discovered by other mathematicians, Einstein admitted his error calling it “the greatest blunder of my life.” After his acknowledgment, and upon confirming further research that showed the universe expanding just as his theory of relativity predicted, Einstein bowed to the fact that the universe is not eternal and said that he wanted “to know how God created the world.”
Further, it should be understood that every effect must resemble its cause. This is because, simply put, you cannot give what you do not have, so it is impossible for an effect to possess something its originating cause did not have. That being the case, how can one believe that an impersonal, amoral, purposeless, and meaningless universe accidentally created beings that are full of personality, morals, meaning, and purpose? Only mind can create mind. In the end it is either matter before mind or mind before matter, and all scientific, philosophical, and reasonable evidence points to the latter.
In conclusion, we find that all scientific evidence points to the fact that the universe had a beginning, just as the Bible states, and that a Cause must exist that resembles all we know today. As Lord Kelvin, a British scientist once said, "If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God."
I do not follow superstition , calling it that is one of your many excuses for distorting what I state.
You , who are an expert of the double standard are very quick at accusing others of that which only you are guilty
When you cut and paste with no credit to the actual author, you are plagiarizing.

Nothing said here shows me as wrong. You have still failed to show what I said that is of a double standard. What am I guilty of? Try backing up your accusations for a change.

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