Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 149925 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Cinderella

Winchester, KY

#66984 Jan 18, 2012
When I was in school, the day began with the lords prayer and the pledge of allegiance to the flag and there wasn't any of this foolishness about spanking being
Child abuse. But unfortunately in today's society the parents motto seems to be
"spare the rod and spoil the child, I am all for spanking and bible study being put back in our schools. I see no wrong whatsoever in putting a child in it's place when
They misbehave.
perryb

Erlanger, KY

#66985 Jan 18, 2012
if the bible is taught in public schools then so must the karon as well as other religious texts. the constitution provides for "no establishment" of religion, which mean the government (of which public schools are proxies) must not favor one over the other. Closed minded bigotry and ethnocentrism must not be promoted by the public schools..our churches do more than an adequate job of that.

“Trying to live a good life”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#66986 Jan 18, 2012
seriously wrote:
<quoted text>
You can use that TCB crap all you want but as HISTORY shows us the original founding fathers were NOT and NEVER became Christians.
You like to use Ben Franklin as an example, you do know that until his dying day he loved sex orgies and drinking, two things the Puritan church of that time looked down on.
“Some volumes against Deism fell into my hands. They were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle’s Lecture. It happened that they produced on me an effect precisely the reverse of what was intended by the writers; for the arguments of the Deists, which were cited in order to be refuted, appealed to me much more forcibly than the refutation itself. In a word, I soon became a thorough Deist.” Benjamin Franklin.
This quote was just before his death.
http://monotheism.us/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Frankli...
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrel...
http://nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14...
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02/13/chris...
http://www.salon.com/2009/04/14/christian_nat...
Anything you are faced with the facts and truth, you claim they are Atheist websites. Like any christian in a corner you blame it on Atheists.
Give up kid you lies are not fooling anyone.
I usually will not even have a conversation with someone like you, who keeps changing names on here, but seeing you are afraid to take your claims on one at a time. I'll try to show you just how ignorant you are making yourself look.

"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that GOD GOVERNS IN THE AFFAIRS OF MEN. And if a sparrow CANNOT FALL TO THE GROUND WITHOUT HIS NOTICE, is it probable THAT AN EMPIRE CAN RISE WITHOUT HIS AID."

Now if you are to ignorant to understand, a deist's beliefs go completely against everything I've put in CAPS for you, I can't help you. I can't understand it for you!!!!!

That's why I ask you at first, what your definition of a deist was, because some seem to use the word deist like you, but don't understand the meaning!!!!

“Trying to live a good life”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#66987 Jan 18, 2012
CANNOT RISE

“Trying to live a good life”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#66988 Jan 18, 2012
Freiheit wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been reading some of your posts. You are right in that the vast majority of the founding fathers were not deists based on where they attended church and what they listed as their religious denomination. There were around six or so founders who would be considered deists based on their own writings.
You were arguing a point in another post I read about the United States being a Christian nation. I have learned through the years that those who claim the US is a Christian nation and those who don't are both correct!
The majority of people 250 years ago either attended church or at least claimed in some way to be Christian. They did not all live at the foot of the cross, but society compelled them. Today, around 75% of Americans claim to be Christian. So with this in mind, one could say this is a Christian nation because of numbers.
On the other hand, there is absolutely no evidence to indicate the founding fathers ever decided that the United States of America would be a Christian nation. There is no reference to Christ in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution except for the usual time element, Year of Our Lord. Nature's God, a deist term, is written. The establishment clause in the first amendment would never have been included had this nation been exclusively Christian. There would have been no need for its inclusion.
Probably no one will enjoy this post very much and I'm sure there will be disagreement. We have polarized this argument so much that middle ground appears to be impossible to find.
I will just say I am pleased with what the founders wrote and for the most part what the courts have upheld through the years. All get some freedom, but not all get everything they want.
I agree, some for sure did not lead a Chtistian life, and not all were Christian.

But when these people get on here, and show their ignorance by posting things from atheist websites, saying a big part of them were deist, is an out and out lie.

All but two have a writing in a book, a speech or prayer, acknowledging that God or a god, makes some kind of decision or acts some how in day to day life. That means they can't be deist!
Heuristic

Cleveland, GA

#66989 Jan 18, 2012
7th Trump wrote:
<quoted text>I agree, some for sure did not lead a Chtistian life, and not all were Christian.
But when these people get on here, and show their ignorance by posting things from atheist websites, saying a big part of them were deist, is an out and out lie.
All but two have a writing in a book, a speech or prayer, acknowledging that God or a god, makes some kind of decision or acts some how in day to day life. That means they can't be deist!
Sorry about the name, but more than one person in this house uses this computer.

A deist may believe that A god created the world, but that does not mean that it was the Christian God.

You do realize that the Muslim Allah, is the Christian God, just as the Christian God is Yahweh? The term God is actually a general one, it doesn't mean any one god in particular, but to any Powerful celestial being that creates life. In that terminology we are gods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God

History has had literally hundreds of gods, yet given time humanity learns that they are just fiction and myth nothing more.
Heuristic

Cleveland, GA

#66990 Jan 18, 2012
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/f …
http://dim.com/~randl/founders.htm

“Trying to live a good life”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#66991 Jan 19, 2012
Heuristic wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry about the name, but more than one person in this house uses this computer.
A deist may believe that A god created the world, but that does not mean that it was the Christian God.
You do realize that the Muslim Allah, is the Christian God, just as the Christian God is Yahweh? The term God is actually a general one, it doesn't mean any one god in particular, but to any Powerful celestial being that creates life. In that terminology we are gods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God
History has had literally hundreds of gods, yet given time humanity learns that they are just fiction and myth nothing more.
If I were you, I would try to change the subject too. I'm not going to jump around from subject to subject with you.

I only deal with one subject at a time, until it's resolved. And you are dead wrong on your statement saying our Founding Fathers were deist. It's a myth, only weak minded people who believe everything an atheist websites write, would believe that!!!
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#66995 Jan 19, 2012
Heuristic wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet History disagrees with you. As I have shown most of the founding fathers were Deist, the rest were mostly agnostic, very few were actually christian.
Give it up kid you have nothing.
Why is there so many recorded mentions of many of them have "reserved" seats in various churches then?

Perhaps you need to do some better research, and quote it right next time.

Known held seats (and even positions) in churches, history can speak of.
History only speaks through time chiseled words in various places.
The internal thoughts of persons that held them, only they would've known such for certain.

I, for one, cannot imagine, getting on a message board, with the assumption of any real earthly idea what any of the founding father's would've truly thought as far as their most personal belief.
Except to say, that it is not extreme to think that it is just that, personal, and that they secured just that right, in what we now know as the 1st Ammendment of the Constitution-
Freedom OF Religion -NOT from it, except by personal choice, for ones OWN self, and ones OWN self only.

The Freedom of Religion is an inalienable right.
The First Amendment provides for the Freedom of Religion for all Americans.
The Free Exercise Clause provides that government will neither control nor prohibit the free exercise of one’s religion.
The government will remain neutral.

So SAYETH the document as signed by many (who indeed have been historically recorded in one denomination or another) of Founding Fathers.
So sayeth the CONSTITUTION of these, the United States of America.
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#66996 Jan 19, 2012
7th Trump wrote:
<quoted text>If I were you, I would try to change the subject too. I'm not going to jump around from subject to subject with you.
I only deal with one subject at a time, until it's resolved. And you are dead wrong on your statement saying our Founding Fathers were deist. It's a myth, only weak minded people who believe everything an atheist websites write, would believe that!!!
Was it the wikipoopia mere copy, requote and paste what has ALREADY been written in many other places link, that gave that away?

I'll take an old book of the times of whatever I might be researching, any day, keeping in mind whilst reading, that I am reading only what was written, by whatever source wrote it, and that the same most likely would Not contain all of what may have been thought about.

:-)
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#66997 Jan 19, 2012
Heuristic wrote:
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/f …
http://dim.com/~randl/founders.htm
Explain these then, infadel link licker.

The words of Lincoln's Second Inaugural Address, carved in granite, thunder from inside the Memorial that bears his name, praying that the "mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away" but recalling that "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

Washington Monument. The form of the Monument recalls ancient Rome and Greece, but at its topmost point, inscribed on the aluminum tip of the capstone, is the Latin phrase Laus Deo -- "Praise be to God." Along the stairway to that height are 190 carved tributes donated by states, cities, individuals, associations, and foreign governments. The blocks resound with quotations from Scripture -- "Holiness to the Lord" (Exodus 28), "Search the Scriptures" (John 5:39), "The memory of the just is blessed" (Proverbs 10:7)-- and such invocations as, "May Heaven to this Union continue its Benefice."

National Archives. Inlaid at the Archives' entrance is a bronze medallion of the Ten Commandments, surrounded by four winged figures representing Legislation, Justice, History, and War and Defense, a testament to the Archives' architects' bold witness to the centrality of biblical truth to the American experience.

The U.S. Capitol also bears public witness to the legacy of biblically inspired faith that Americans have passed on from generation to generation. New England statesman and orator Daniel Webster was voted by the United States Senate in the 1980s as one of the five greatest senators ever to serve in that chamber. In 1851, when the new House and Senate wings of the Capitol were begun, Webster gave a speech that was deposited in the cornerstone. Its final words are these:

If, therefore, it shall hereafter be the will of God that this structure should fall from the base, that its foundations be upturned, and this deposit brought to the eyes of men, be it then known, that on this day the Union of the United States of America stands firm, that their constitution still exists unimpaired, and with all of its original usefulness and glory, growing every day stronger and stronger in the affection of the great body of the American people, and attracting more and more the admiration of the world. And all here assembled, whether belonging to public life or to private life, with hearts devotedly thankful to Almighty God for the preservation of the liberty and happiness of the country, unite in sincere and fervent prayers that this deposit, and the walls and arches, the domes and towers, the columns and the entablatures, now to be erected over it, may endure forever.

Chuck Donovan and Christina Darnell."Hallowed Ground: Washington's Monuments to Faith, Family and Freedom". Washington Times. October 3, 1997.
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#66998 Jan 19, 2012
Heuristic wrote:
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/f …
http://dim.com/~randl/founders.htm
.

Whether it be good or bad, has a powerful influence.[SOURCE: George Washington, Letter to Lord Stirling (5 March 1780)]

Washington was a practicing Christian who frequently attended services of several denominations and took seriously his responsibilities as vestryman of his Anglican parish. Washington frequently invoked God and commanded that chaplains be included in every regiment:

"The General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavor so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier, defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country."

[PRIMARY SOURCE: George Washington, General Orders,(July 9, 1776)].

Washington declared in his Inaugural Address:

"It would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe.

No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of Providential agency."[14]

Comments such as this one have led some modern historians to conclude that Washington was more a deist than a Christian. Washington told a delegation of Indians:

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and way of life, and above all, the religion of JESUS CHRIST... Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.

[PRIMARY SOURCE: George Washington, Speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs (May 12, 1779)].

Welllllllll...now THAT last one says.... a LOT.
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#67000 Jan 19, 2012
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#67001 Jan 19, 2012
seriously wrote:
<quoted text>
You can use that TCB crap all you want but as HISTORY shows us the original founding fathers were NOT and NEVER became Christians.
You like to use Ben Franklin as an example, you do know that until his dying day he loved sex orgies and drinking, two things the Puritan church of that time looked down on.
“Some volumes against Deism fell into my hands. They were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle’s Lecture. It happened that they produced on me an effect precisely the reverse of what was intended by the writers; for the arguments of the Deists, which were cited in order to be refuted, appealed to me much more forcibly than the refutation itself. In a word, I soon became a thorough Deist.” Benjamin Franklin.
This quote was just before his death.
http://monotheism.us/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Frankli...
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrel...
http://nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/14/magazine/14...
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/02/13/chris...
http://www.salon.com/2009/04/14/christian_nat...
Anything you are faced with the facts and truth, you claim they are Atheist websites. Like any christian in a corner you blame it on Atheists.
Give up kid you lies are not fooling anyone.
Now check out all the DC-chiseled in stone- monuments.

They're real-Not rewrites of others MERE opinions.

“There is no god.”

Since: Jan 12

USA

#67002 Jan 19, 2012
I thought this was of interest, http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel03.ht...
Ignorance is Bliss

United States

#67003 Jan 19, 2012
Isnt it funny how in order to describe this country as a "Christian Nation," people like to argue the founding fathers were Christian due to having reserved seats and writing about "God"? However these self-same individuals are the first to declare another's religious belief as invalid or "non-Christian" if they don't belong to the right "cult". I am sure the proof of Christianity they are using for founding fathers wouldn't be enough to convince them of someone's Christianity today.

Seems mighty ironic to declare dead men Christians based on their writing and reserved seats, yet deny that title to Catholics, abortion clinic bombers, and hate-mongers who openly proclaim themselves as "Christian."

Will the value judgment calls on people's lives to support your point never end? It is easier to say "I don't know" than to arbitrarily choose who is or isn't "worthy" to get the title "Christian".
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#67004 Jan 19, 2012
Freiheit wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been reading some of your posts. You are right in that the vast majority of the founding fathers were not deists based on where they attended church and what they listed as their religious denomination. There were around six or so founders who would be considered deists based on their own writings.
You were arguing a point in another post I read about the United States being a Christian nation. I have learned through the years that those who claim the US is a Christian nation and those who don't are both correct!
The majority of people 250 years ago either attended church or at least claimed in some way to be Christian. They did not all live at the foot of the cross, but society compelled them. Today, around 75% of Americans claim to be Christian. So with this in mind, one could say this is a Christian nation because of numbers.
On the other hand, there is absolutely no evidence to indicate the founding fathers ever decided that the United States of America would be a Christian nation. There is no reference to Christ in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution except for the usual time element, Year of Our Lord. Nature's God, a deist term, is written. The establishment clause in the first amendment would never have been included had this nation been exclusively Christian. There would have been no need for its inclusion.
Probably no one will enjoy this post very much and I'm sure there will be disagreement. We have polarized this argument so much that middle ground appears to be impossible to find.
I will just say I am pleased with what the founders wrote and for the most part what the courts have upheld through the years. All get some freedom, but not all get everything they want.
They worded the Constitution well, didn't they.

Freedom OF religion....

The RIGHT of personal CHOICE is great...because Anything else would be communisTic.
Anonymous

Berea, KY

#67005 Jan 19, 2012
You all should stop using Wikipedia in this argument. It's not credible for anything. While I think it's a nice starting place you can't be taken seriously in the real world using it at a complete source of information.
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#67006 Jan 19, 2012
Ignorance is Bliss wrote:
Isnt it funny how in order to describe this country as a "Christian Nation," people like to argue the founding fathers were Christian due to having reserved seats and writing about "God"? However these self-same individuals are the first to declare another's religious belief as invalid or "non-Christian" if they don't belong to the right "cult". I am sure the proof of Christianity they are using for founding fathers wouldn't be enough to convince them of someone's Christianity today.
Seems mighty ironic to declare dead men Christians based on their writing and reserved seats, yet deny that title to Catholics, abortion clinic bombers, and hate-mongers who openly proclaim themselves as "Christian."

Will the value judgment calls on people's lives to support your point never end? It is easier to say "I don't know" than to arbitrarily choose who is or isn't "worthy" to get the title "Christian".
Speak for YOURSELF and yourself ONLY.

You have NO idea what others may or may not think.

Freedom OF religion..

It's a PERSONAL thing (as in no one else's business, so long as it is not harming others, in any way)

So sayeth the CONSTITUTION of these, the United States.
Godisaneyeball

Bolivar, MO

#67007 Jan 19, 2012
Godisaneyeball wrote:
<quoted text>
They worded the Constitution well, didn't they.
Freedom OF religion....
The RIGHT of personal CHOICE is great...because Anything else would be communisTic.
(and exemplified great manners and thoughtfulness of, and courtesies towards OTHERS in many of their writings as well!)

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