Union' Put Twinkies out of buiness 18...

Union' Put Twinkies out of buiness 18,000 jobs lost

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The Facts

Lebanon, KY

#1 Nov 16, 2012
Due to the great stupid unions in america , the bakers union went on stike and now they have put a long time Icon business out of buisness .
The sad thing is that 18,000 lose their jobs.
They drove the comapny out of business due to their demands .

Another American traditon loss to unions.

I wonder how many that went on strike will stay it the union after no work and loss of their jobs . Will they ever learn a lesson from this .

I think it better to have some wage some work than no wage no work.
JohnGalt

Mount Washington, KY

#2 Nov 16, 2012
Are you kidding? They're all going to be on social services now! Life will be great for them at your expense.

Goodbye Hostess. I'm sorry we didn't appreciate you enough while you were here.
Justin Case

Jeffersonville, IN

#3 Nov 16, 2012
Thats the typical function of a union, put the company out of business for another stupid 15 cents per hour. It serves their stupid ass right !!
what will happen

Lexington, KY

#4 Nov 16, 2012
someone will purchase the Twinkie name and continue producing Twinkies. They will hire workers at minimum wage. Without unions the middle class will get weaker and weaker.

Should we all work 16 hour days for 35 center per day like they do in China?
Reason

Mount Washington, KY

#5 Nov 16, 2012
what will happen wrote:
Should we all work 16 hour days for 35 center per day like they do in China?
Nope. Absolutely not!

Instead, you should make yourself a more valuable member of society and set your own worth and demand it. If people are unwilling to pay what you believe you are worth you can either change your beliefs or, better yet, improve yourself so that you are more marketable.

I assure you, this is slowly happening in China and you will be replaced with those chinese workers if you do not change the "owe me" line of thinking.
jug head

Georgetown, KY

#6 Nov 16, 2012
The Facts wrote:
Due to the great stupid unions in america , the bakers union went on stike and now they have put a long time Icon business out of buisness .
The sad thing is that 18,000 lose their jobs.
They drove the comapny out of business due to their demands .
Another American traditon loss to unions.
I wonder how many that went on strike will stay it the union after no work and loss of their jobs . Will they ever learn a lesson from this .
I think it better to have some wage some work than no wage no work.
facts your as- you don't know one damn thing about a union if you did you would not say what you did ,,,, you dumb as- the empolyee didn't shut them down it the damn higher managerment ceo making 53 million a year plant manger makes 624 thousand a year top manager makes 150 thousand plus a bonus and you f??k stick tell me the empolyee shut them down how f>>king stupid can one human being get , you top the case ,,,,, i will match my 40 years union retirement to your anytime you feel like it and see who comes out on tne top ,,,,, you got to be related tothe scumbag andy barr he says the same damn thing .
jug head

Georgetown, KY

#7 Nov 16, 2012
Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Absolutely not!
Instead, you should make yourself a more valuable member of society and set your own worth and demand it. If people are unwilling to pay what you believe you are worth you can either change your beliefs or, better yet, improve yourself so that you are more marketable.
I assure you, this is slowly happening in China and you will be replaced with those chinese workers if you do not change the "owe me" line of thinking.
well you mitty rommy sob take your damn as- to china and live and see how the hell you can do any better on 41 cents a day the way the worker in china do .... just keep going to wal-mart and buying the child labor product that you thank is so great .
what will happen

Lexington, KY

#8 Nov 16, 2012
First of all, I don't have an entitlement attitude. I am in the top 5% of KY salaries and am very comfortable with my situation.

Secondly - the American worker has benefited greatly from the union. Thanks to unions we have labor laws protecting employees, weekends, etc. If we destroy unions the American worker will be exploited as the Chinese, Indians, etc. are now.

Employers are not like Henry Ford used to be. You have Wal-Mart paying a wage below poverty and encouraging employees to sign up for food stamps. That is disgusting. Minimum wage should be increased. If we destroy unions, wages will fall for union and non union employees. Employers do not provide out of the goodness of their hearts. United we stand, divided we fall. That applies to laborers who unite, form a union and stick together. As an individual, you as an employee have VERY little bargaining power. All while corporate executives and their board members provide mind-blowing bonues and golden parachutes as companies lose money and file for bankruptcy.

Get your degree, tell yourself you are special, brag on your experience BUT KNOW THIS, you are a dime a dozen.
Reason

Mount Washington, KY

#9 Nov 16, 2012
what will happen wrote:
First of all, I don't have an entitlement attitude. I am in the top 5% of KY salaries and am very comfortable with my situation.
Secondly - the American worker has benefited greatly from the union. Thanks to unions we have labor laws protecting employees, weekends, etc. If we destroy unions the American worker will be exploited as the Chinese, Indians, etc. are now.
Employers are not like Henry Ford used to be. You have Wal-Mart paying a wage below poverty and encouraging employees to sign up for food stamps. That is disgusting. Minimum wage should be increased. If we destroy unions, wages will fall for union and non union employees. Employers do not provide out of the goodness of their hearts. United we stand, divided we fall. That applies to laborers who unite, form a union and stick together. As an individual, you as an employee have VERY little bargaining power. All while corporate executives and their board members provide mind-blowing bonues and golden parachutes as companies lose money and file for bankruptcy.
Get your degree, tell yourself you are special, brag on your experience BUT KNOW THIS, you are a dime a dozen.
Of course I'm a dime a dozen. duh. Does that mean I suddenly need to force someone else to pay my way or does it mean I need to hustle more to make my own way?
As for bargaining power, why should you and your GED have any bargaining power at all? You've not earned it. Walmart, whether you like them or not, has grown and changed and has provided a significant community service. If you don't want to be a min wage Walmart door granny on food stamps, then I highly suggest you find a away to avoid such a fate. No one is going to do this for you nor should they. The min wage is a horrible, horrible idea and makes it difficult for businesses to survive and it acts as an incentive for the lower end of society to avoid improving their situation.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with the idea that, if you want to be successful and demand more money, that you position yourself to grow and improve yourself. I believe in people and I believe in their ability to learn and grow and thrive. I do not understand why so many believe that they cannot improve themselves and should therefore have their employer *forced* to compensate for their inadequacies.
Big Daddy

Richmond, KY

#10 Nov 16, 2012
what will happen wrote:
First of all, I don't have an entitlement attitude. I am in the top 5% of KY salaries and am very comfortable with my situation.
Secondly - the American worker has benefited greatly from the union. Thanks to unions we have labor laws protecting employees, weekends, etc. If we destroy unions the American worker will be exploited as the Chinese, Indians, etc. are now.
Employers are not like Henry Ford used to be. You have Wal-Mart paying a wage below poverty and encouraging employees to sign up for food stamps. That is disgusting. Minimum wage should be increased. If we destroy unions, wages will fall for union and non union employees. Employers do not provide out of the goodness of their hearts. United we stand, divided we fall. That applies to laborers who unite, form a union and stick together. As an individual, you as an employee have VERY little bargaining power. All while corporate executives and their board members provide mind-blowing bonues and golden parachutes as companies lose money and file for bankruptcy.
Get your degree, tell yourself you are special, brag on your experience BUT KNOW THIS, you are a dime a dozen.
Beautiful post! Truer words have never been spoken. Our government and their polices of taking lobbyist money has caused the decline of the American worker. Corporations pay politicians well to put in place or keep in place policies of unfair trade. This has been going on since the 70's and can be attributed to both political parties.

Example in the 90's a Ford Taurus cost around $60,000 to buy in Japan. Now just how many Camry's would you see on the road if they cost 60,000? Answer very few. This is why they are now made in the US. So if our government ever did do the right thing they would not have to pay import taxes like they place in our goods that ce into their country. America needs manufacturing back! It's what made the middle class great and paid them a good wage with benefits and retirement. Instead we hear about Papa johns is gonna lay off workers because of Obamacare. Who gives a damn about a bunch of low paying jobs. However these are the only kind of job creators we here about. Those are jobs for kids not adults people can not live on minimum wage,et alone buy homes, cars, and other items. Something needs to be done for fair trade and get manufacturing back and make America strong again! The first thing that should be done is anything our military used should be made in America! From their boots to tanks and planes! This would create a lot of good jobs for Americans who could take pride in what they are making.
what will happen

Lexington, KY

#11 Nov 16, 2012
I guess you didn't read clearly, but I have achieved far more than a GED.

There have to be labor and environmental regulations in place to avoid the exploitation of people and the destruction of our planet.

If bargaining power is taken away from the people the country will dive rapidly to its least common denominator. If you are not intelligent enough to understand the value of collective bargaining there is not any way to have a constructive debate with you.

Wal-Mart is not the Wal-Mart Sam Walton envisioned. Wal-Mart is a huge contributor to the economic problems we are having.

Busniessmen like Sam Walton and Henry Ford were great for the middle class citizens. I suggest you learn something about their business practices before you continue to show your lack of knowledge.
what will happen

Lexington, KY

#12 Nov 16, 2012
I agree Big Daddy. And companies should be punished for manufacturing products in countries that do not have the same environmental and labor regulations we enjoy here in the USA.
Reason

Mount Washington, KY

#13 Nov 16, 2012
what will happen wrote:
If you are not intelligent enough to understand the value of collective bargaining there is not any way to have a constructive debate with you.
Typical liberal response. If I disagree with you, you simply question my intelligence. Classy.
what will happen

Lexington, KY

#14 Nov 16, 2012
And before we get a train of folks claiming they have made it on their own. KY is one of the poorest states in the country. We receive over $3,000 in federal subsidies per citizen of our state.

If you are a successful entrepeneuer, congratulations. But be thankful for the federal subsidies that provide roads, police, fire fighters, schools, etc. in your area that are necessary for you to succeed.
what will happen

Lexington, KY

#15 Nov 16, 2012
No, I am not questioning your intelligence. If you do not recognize the value of collective bargaining you are not very intelligent. Thankfully those before us recognized that to get what they are worth, they are better to join with others with the same interests and negotiate together. If you walk in to your boss and demand a raise there is no reason to give you one. You can leave and he can replace you quickly. If you and all of your co-workers go in, you have a better chance to get a fair deal as he will not want to lose his entire work force. If you do not understand that you are not intelligent. I am not questioning your intelligence. I am stating a fact.
The Facts

Lebanon, KY

#16 Nov 16, 2012
jug head wrote:
<quoted text>facts your as- you don't know one damn thing about a union if you did you would not say what you did ,,,, you dumb as- the empolyee didn't shut them down it the damn higher managerment ceo making 53 million a year plant manger makes 624 thousand a year top manager makes 150 thousand plus a bonus and you f??k stick tell me the empolyee shut them down how f>>king stupid can one human being get , you top the case ,,,,, i will match my 40 years union retirement to your anytime you feel like it and see who comes out on tne top ,,,,, you got to be related tothe scumbag andy barr he says the same damn thing .
Unions are what ruined this country and drove business over the years out of this county , they keep wanting higher wages then when they get them they buty big house and corvette"s and boats a Rvs they out do there credit cards cause they make more money.
Then when the bottom falls out of the economy they lose it all and then bank takes there homes and all. They live to high on the hog cause the unions got them there
Unions are evil . they push people around and don't care what they do to poeple and the ones at the top giving out all the orders are the ones who make miillions
Then thoe who beleive in it walk picket lines , then a compnay folds and they lose there jobs that was told were safe . There are millions of former union workers now no homes, no cars lots are homeless cause they beleived in the unions all bull crap and they are now learning what damage unions can do to everyone .
Some day all unions will be gone and just a think of the past . there is less & less members in unions now .
It on a downward decline and it will close it doors one day ,and no one will care less that its gone.
The Real Truth

Fruitland, NM

#17 Nov 16, 2012
&#8722;

Hostess filed bankruptcy in 2005, then again last year. They reduced the number of workers, factories and trucks/distrubtion centers in the 2005 bankruptcy.

It's a privately held company, currently owned by a hedge fund group of two companies (similar to Bain Capital).

They had revenue of 950 or so million, with outstanding liabilities of 1.4 billion.
Something was going to have to give. Their management has been horrible for years....Hostess should have diversified into some healthier
alternatives, but when they tried, they failed at it. Therefore, the hedge fund capital groups owning the company sought out Rayburn this past spring to facilitate the closing process and bring them a financial windfall from dismantling this company. He will be paid a very large sum for enabling them to pull this victory off and ending pensions for the retired and long-term employees.

They were leveraged to the hilt by design to allow for today's announcement. They orchestrated it to look as if the union and workers were the reason for their downfall, but in reality, they planned to dismantle this company long ago and make away with huge sums of money at the expense of everyone else. Rayburn (google him) has a history of assisting companies through bankruptcy proceedings and dismantling companies, and he has been paid extravagant sums of money to assist these companies in maneuvering through judicial processes which allow them to displace workers and eliminate pension allocations.

It ALMOST looks like a Romney scheme.....come in to "consult", load
up on debt, can't pay the bills, declare bankruptcy, pocket most of the
money, leave the workers out in the cold.

It is a business strategy, particularly for old companies that want
to renig on previous deals with labor or avoid pensions. New companies
don't promise pensions very often or decent salaries, so they have less debt load.

Essentially, it is a way to breach the previous social contract.
Hedge funds, like Bain Capital, use it as leverage...in a company like
Hostess, the value is in the brand not the factories/workers. So if
they can separate the brand from the factory/workers, and sell it to
someone that has its own factory/workers with no pensions, both parties
to the deal can make millions. But buyers of assets want them free and
clear of creditor claims, so they strip the assets of claims through the
bankruptcy process in a "reorganization" Chapter 11. Benefit of the Chapter 11
is that there is no third party trustee appointed...the debtor is in
possession of all the assets and continues to run its business as before
with occasional (and usually after the fact) court oversight.

In this case, Hostess Brands and CEO Rayburn had already submitted a request to the bankruptcy judge in New York to be able to sell all rights (brands) under its name, structures, and other business holdings prior to announcing their closing today. However, they announced through Rayburn inability to financially "weather the storm" due to union contracts and workers not agreeing to take further reduction in pay and benefits beyond the concessions they had already made for the company the past couple of years.

So, in this process, unions either agree to a different contract, or
there is no longer a union when the assets are sold to a company in
bankruptcy willing to buy the assets that is not subject to the union.
And federal judges, particularly GOP appointees, will approve the
sales.

And poof go the pensions. Thus, we now can see how the Hostess Brand closing actually played out to the benefit of its owners and their plan to dismantle the private company long ago with the assistance of a powerful bankruptcy judge in New York.
Trickster

Louisville, KY

#18 Nov 16, 2012
This is a company that was in bankruptcy for almost the past 8 years, they were on borrowed time. These employees we're making on average $8 an hour without medical benefits. They can make better money than that working anywhere, so they did what any sane person would do and walked the hell out. I am fortunate enough to have a great job that I love, but if my boss cut my salary twice in six months (which is what hostess did) It'd be "take this job and shove it".

The company failed. Some other company like Little Debbie will swoop in and buy the brand so fatasses won't have to miss filling their gaping pie holes with twinkies and ho hos.

The union is just a scape goat.
bigby

Louisville, KY

#19 Nov 16, 2012
The Real Truth wrote:
&#8722;

Hostess filed bankruptcy in 2005, then again last year. They reduced the number of workers, factories and trucks/distrubtion centers in the 2005 bankruptcy.

It's a privately held company, currently owned by a hedge fund group of two companies (similar to Bain Capital).

They had revenue of 950 or so million, with outstanding liabilities of 1.4 billion.
Something was going to have to give. Their management has been horrible for years....Hostess should have diversified into some healthier
alternatives, but when they tried, they failed at it. Therefore, the hedge fund capital groups owning the company sought out Rayburn this past spring to facilitate the closing process and bring them a financial windfall from dismantling this company. He will be paid a very large sum for enabling them to pull this victory off and ending pensions for the retired and long-term employees.

They were leveraged to the hilt by design to allow for today's announcement. They orchestrated it to look as if the union and workers were the reason for their downfall, but in reality, they planned to dismantle this company long ago and make away with huge sums of money at the expense of everyone else. Rayburn (google him) has a history of assisting companies through bankruptcy proceedings and dismantling companies, and he has been paid extravagant sums of money to assist these companies in maneuvering through judicial processes which allow them to displace workers and eliminate pension allocations.

It ALMOST looks like a Romney scheme.....come in to "consult", load
up on debt, can't pay the bills, declare bankruptcy, pocket most of the
money, leave the workers out in the cold.

It is a business strategy, particularly for old companies that want
to renig on previous deals with labor or avoid pensions. New companies
don't promise pensions very often or decent salaries, so they have less debt load.

Essentially, it is a way to breach the previous social contract.
Hedge funds, like Bain Capital, use it as leverage...in a company like
Hostess, the value is in the brand not the factories/workers. So if
they can separate the brand from the factory/workers, and sell it to
someone that has its own factory/workers with no pensions, both parties
to the deal can make millions. But buyers of assets want them free and
clear of creditor claims, so they strip the assets of claims through the
bankruptcy process in a "reorganization" Chapter 11. Benefit of the Chapter 11
is that there is no third party trustee appointed...the debtor is in
possession of all the assets and continues to run its business as before
with occasional (and usually after the fact) court oversight.

In this case, Hostess Brands and CEO Rayburn had already submitted a request to the bankruptcy judge in New York to be able to sell all rights (brands) under its name, structures, and other business holdings prior to announcing their closing today. However, they announced through Rayburn inability to financially "weather the storm" due to union contracts and workers not agreeing to take further reduction in pay and benefits beyond the concessions they had already made for the company the past couple of years.

So, in this process, unions either agree to a different contract, or
there is no longer a union when the assets are sold to a company in
bankruptcy willing to buy the assets that is not subject to the union.
And federal judges, particularly GOP appointees, will approve the
sales.

And poof go the pensions. Thus, we now can see how the Hostess Brand closing actually played out to the benefit of its owners and their plan to dismantle the private company long ago with the assistance of a powerful bankruptcy judge in New York.
Die
The Real Truth

Fruitland, NM

#20 Nov 16, 2012
Trickster wrote:
This is a company that was in bankruptcy for almost the past 8 years, they were on borrowed time. These employees we're making on average $8 an hour without medical benefits. They can make better money than that working anywhere, so they did what any sane person would do and walked the hell out. I am fortunate enough to have a great job that I love, but if my boss cut my salary twice in six months (which is what hostess did) It'd be "take this job and shove it".
The company failed. Some other company like Little Debbie will swoop in and buy the brand so fatasses won't have to miss filling their gaping pie holes with twinkies and ho hos.
The union is just a scape goat.
I totally agree with your point of view!

Phil the Grillmaster wrote:
I saw a company official on KRQE news say that there is a demand for their product, but it is not cost effective to make.
This after the bakers lost pensions and took prior pay cuts during those "mergers and downsizings".
You gotta draw the line somewhere.

This is the company mantra they will putting out over the next few weeks! They probably had a private deal already made to sell the brand rights to Chinese companies, where it will be produced extremely cheap (including ingredients) without FDA or USDA oversight, and they will make huge profits from this action. This seems to be the norm for most industries over the past 15 years where shifting production to China is more profitable and they know Americans will continue to purchase this product even if the quality is not as good for the same price as before.

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