Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 160690 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130247 May 9, 2014
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
With trim colored paint of tenement houses, packed wall to wall and elbow to elbow, stand in line for the flush?
Worse off than in comparison to what? The black plague? Streets lined with open ditches, implemented for the soup du jour toss of the day?
A lot of places in the early days of the 19th century, weren't all that much different, from that of industrialized Europe, when anyone considers the REAL America of the time.
You know, before the days of fwee and libuhrulTic type welfare and slackerism.
Lovely weather today-no cow patties required.
The black plague wasn't even in the same century and there was no homesteading in Europe. Until well into the industrial revolution the US was an agrarian economy I don't quite understand the contradiction of your ramblings as they apply to the main topic.. Religious servitude didn't work out the hydrology to build sewers and potable water supplies either in the US or Europe. I realize that as a tea bagger you laud the conservative virtues of workhouses abusing the masses to early deaths and damn the liberal evils of organization, but can't you lucidly state that malignant platform without lapsing into baby babble?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130248 May 9, 2014
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Using sarcasm as a rebuttal is one of the telltale signs of a liar....
Another is blaming the accuser of being ignorant.....
Good try ,but we gotcha..........
Before your mind tells you to post something , double check with your subconscious, so they don't end up contradicting each other as you have just done..........
Care to show the contradiction?

Mike Duquette wrote:

<quoted text>Any moron should know an atheist refers to god as a hypothetical. I am sorry I forgot to include the reference, as I should have known I was writing to someone dumber than a moron.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130249 May 9, 2014
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
By what kind of "logic to you conclude"... to think that would literally be anythingthing I conclude??
Well it was a question, not a conclusion, and you failed to actually answer it. You fail to answer questions of many of your beliefs, so we are unsure of your beliefs. So we ask questions. This is what humans do. To bad no one told you how humans act. Decent humans try to answer questions.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130250 May 9, 2014
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
There has to be one that is applicable for your tenacious ability of twisting and distorting every thing to backwards and opposite too.
I would look, but that would require time, and I choose not to waste such so...how about you just stop being so petty.
(Whats a matter chump, the real truth about some things doesn't fit your spoon fed, stereo type of dark age supposed to be miserable? TOO bad on You!!!)
I understand. When I write things like:
A global Noachian flood DID NOT HAPPEN because 1) the Atacama desert has not seen significant rain in 100,000 years 2) there is no universal genetic bottle neck correlating to that time 3) civilizations and cities were continuously occupied and unaffected through that time 4) the diversity and distribution of species across the globe solidly refutes it 5) Ice cores from glaciers provide no evidence of a global flood - at all 6) the very existence of glaciers older that 5,000 years refutes a global flood 6) there are no alluvial deposits or geologic depositions consistent with a global flood 7) there is absolutely no indication that there were any mass extinctions during the recorded history of man 8) there is not enough water on Earth to flood the entire land mass 9) the thermal, climactic and geologic impacts from such an event would have rendered the Earth uninhabitable by large mammals even to this day, 9) etc. 10) etc 11) etc.... and therefore the BIBLE IS ERRANT.
I'm twisting and distorting everything opposite and backward and I'm being unnecessarily intolerant and a big fat petty meanie poo..

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130251 May 9, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
God knows the hearts of people. We don't. He knew what Moses didn't and He had to let Moses see if for himself. Once Moses saw it, he carried out what God wished.
Again, I haven't insisted that my beliefs are factual. I don't use that word for my beliefs.
If god knows the hearts of people, there would be sense in testing us. Why would Abraham need to be tested by way of killing his son if god knew he would do it?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130252 May 9, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand. When I write things like:
A global Noachian flood DID NOT HAPPEN because 1) the Atacama desert has not seen significant rain in 100,000 years 2) there is no universal genetic bottle neck correlating to that time 3) civilizations and cities were continuously occupied and unaffected through that time 4) the diversity and distribution of species across the globe solidly refutes it 5) Ice cores from glaciers provide no evidence of a global flood - at all 6) the very existence of glaciers older that 5,000 years refutes a global flood 6) there are no alluvial deposits or geologic depositions consistent with a global flood 7) there is absolutely no indication that there were any mass extinctions during the recorded history of man 8) there is not enough water on Earth to flood the entire land mass 9) the thermal, climactic and geologic impacts from such an event would have rendered the Earth uninhabitable by large mammals even to this day, 9) etc. 10) etc 11) etc.... and therefore the BIBLE IS ERRANT.
I'm twisting and distorting everything opposite and backward and I'm being unnecessarily intolerant and a big fat petty meanie poo..
Well you are no expert on these things, thus you cannot use the findings of these sciences, according to Curious and Sista.
You forget their is a massive conspiracy from all scientists, as they are liberal god haters. They lie to prove god false. Scientists are evil, and we should not allow our children to be taught that evil evolution lie the devil created.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130253 May 9, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Nicely put
Christians sure are delusional.
You've only got to look at curious who thinks it's perfectly acceptable to kill people who possess a different viewpoint to his.
Every Christian on this thread has argued it is ok to kill for the agenda of god, as all have argued Moses was just and moral in killing the golden calf worshipers.
I see zero difference in this argument and the argument Islamic fundamentalists have for 9/11.
Thus I see the Christians enabling the terrorists argument. Of course they deny doing so, but cannot show they are not. They just deny, as if we just accept their denial with no logic and reason to back it up.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130254 May 9, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>pfft. You're playing a word game to avoid the point.
You just made the assertions that "God knows" "He knew" "He... let" and "God wished" as facts.

On top of that, according to the story if Moses had done what "God" initially wished, it would have been a mass murder suicide and >no one< would have survived. After Moses had talked his supremely omniscient omnipotent Creator of all time and space god out of killing the whole lot, where was the instruction that he kill anyone? If Moses and his god had seen eye to eye on "purifying" the group, Aaron as the ringleader should have been the first one eliminated. Instead, he was elevated to #2 and was the general against the hill peoples in Numbers - which is a whole other grievous violation of commandments.
I am going to speak about what I believe. And I'm not going to protect you from how I feel on every post and tip toe around that I believe my religion is the closest to correct. Most every believer does. But I know what the word fact means. And since I have said from the beginning of my posting on here that I will never be able to prove anything, I can't call my beliefs fact. You should be able to appreciate that. But knowing that I believe how I believe you should expect me to be able to talk openly about it. You sure do.
I only wish to try to explain why I believe what I believe.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130255 May 9, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>pfft. You're playing a word game to avoid the point.
You just made the assertions that "God knows" "He knew" "He... let" and "God wished" as facts.

On top of that, according to the story if Moses had done what "God" initially wished, it would have been a mass murder suicide and >no one< would have survived. After Moses had talked his supremely omniscient omnipotent Creator of all time and space god out of killing the whole lot, where was the instruction that he kill anyone? If Moses and his god had seen eye to eye on "purifying" the group, Aaron as the ringleader should have been the first one eliminated. Instead, he was elevated to #2 and was the general against the hill peoples in Numbers - which is a whole other grievous violation of commandments.
It was God's will that those with evil in their hearts be taken out of the group. I don't know why Aaron wasn't one of them other than he was foreordained to lead the priests in the Tabernacle. We don't know his heart, only God did.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130256 May 9, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Well you are no expert on these things, thus you cannot use the findings of these sciences, according to curious and Sista.
You forget there is a massive conspiracy from all scientists, as they are liberal god haters. They lie to prove god false. Scientists are evil, and we should not allow our children to be taught that evil evolution lie the devil created.
I guess that sums it up. I suppose I should be humbled in the presence of Sista gynecologist.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130257 May 9, 2014
spaceship wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if it is o.k. to fart in heaven? Maybe that's what god using to fuel the flames of hell, a angelic pipe line.
Farts in heaven smell like roses. Heaven is Utopia.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130258 May 9, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>You claim YHWH exists without any evidence. You claim a prophet is an emissary from a god without any evidence. You tell me there is a hell (but mean the Lake of Fire, I presume) but there is no evidence and that my soul (no evidence) might go there (no evidence). You make these statements as "Truths" but draw the line at calling them factual. What have you actually got, then? Data, truth, facts, evidence? Nope. What you have is the Bible, which we both know is the folklore written by a tribe of humans over the course of a couple thousand years. I see it as nothing more than that and you see it as reality. Delusional, much?

do whut wrote, "<quoted text>Your comments are insulting, hate you don't realize that. And they are not conducive to having an adult conversation about a topic that neither side can prove the other wrong. Hate you can't see that either. And just because you don't see why anyone has the "business" to teach children what they believe, realize the other side could say the exact same for you."

Someone could say the exact same for me, but they could also say I have three eyes and that I speak dolphin. It doesn't make it true - because there is nothing to it. I can show that the Genesis account of creation is wrong. I can show that the flood didn't happen. I can show that there is a fossil record that vastly predates the Garden of Eden and that there are even human structures that predate the account. I can show that the families and variations of language predate the Tower of Babel and that even by the biblical record such a structure couldn't have been built. I can show that there are numerous errors in both the old and new testaments. I could go past the post word limit many times FACTUALLY expanding this list. Simply stating the truth versus "the Truth" does not make me hateful or insulting. Trying to pawn off superstition and mythology as reality is, especially when you do it to children who cannot know any better.
do whut wrote, "<quoted text>If you truly can't realize when you are being insulting on such a topic that neither side can prove, then you will never realize why you get negative retaliation from those you offended."

Perhaps you would enlighten me on where and how I've been insulting? Is it the accurate use of the words "delusional" and "cult"?
I fully realize why I get a negative retaliation from the religious. I don't find that bothersome in itself, but I am a little chafed at their pervasive willful ignorance and wanton dishonesty.
Do I need to explain the definition of beliefs?

And to clarify, I have never told you that you might be going to hell, ever.
I have the Holy Ghost. That is how I know gospel truth. This is not the same as evidence or fact. The Holy Ghost can speak to me, or influence me, or manifest truth or instruction to me with you standing right next to me and you may never know it.

Please show your evidence, one issue at a time and let's go through it.

You showing what you think is evidence is not insulting. Calling believers delusional certainly is insulting. You can disagree with a doctrine or religion without insult. But calling those that follow the religion names is insulting. Seriously, you don't see the difference?

Your use of the word delusional is your opinion. You cannot know that a person has not spoken directly with God. You cannot know how anything happened before you were born. You can only read about other's experiences and views and examine clues and make a conclusion. So your determination of someone's mental state based off of your conclusions (or that of others) is not fact and therefore your opinion which makes it just an insult and an attempt to discredit the opposing opinion.

Anyway, be insulting if you feel you must or you just can't control yourself, regardless, present your evidence.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130259 May 9, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I am going to speak about what I believe. And I'm not going to protect you from how I feel on every post and tip toe around that I believe my religion is the closest to correct. Most every believer does. But I know what the word fact means. And since I have said from the beginning of my posting on here that I will never be able to prove anything, I can't call my beliefs fact. You should be able to appreciate that. But knowing that I believe how I believe you should expect me to be able to talk openly about it. You sure do.
I only wish to try to explain why I believe what I believe.
Ok, but what about all the other points he made?
How do you explain the idea of Moses making Aaron his number 2? Seems Moses thinks he is the god, as I pointed out the claim of him taking charge and even talking god out of taking charge. Moses evidently so full of himself, he cannot allow god to actually do the killing. He wants all the glory of the authority, and as with all murderous dictators, killing the nay sayers is how they keep authority.
As with most all murderous dictators, they claim to speak to god, or act for god, or are a god.
You simply believe this murderous dictator. It is the foundation of your religion. To deny it would be to deny your religion, and we know you will make any excuse not to do this.
You sit here trying to justify the atrocity of mass murder, for the non crime of worshipping what one choses. An act we Americans hold as freedom.
You sit here arguing that religious freedom is not something that should be honored.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130260 May 9, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It was God's will that those with evil in their hearts be taken out of the group. I don't know why Aaron wasn't one of them other than he was foreordained to lead the priests in the Tabernacle. We don't know his heart, only God did.
Foreordained? Then we have no free will, after all. How was it that "God" was able to be argued out of obliterating the sinners - did Moses know what was in "His" heart better than "He" did? Where does it say that God told Moses to spare Aaron? Was this bloodbath supposed to be teaching the Israelites a lesson better than "God's Own Wrath" would? Did the thugs from Moses' tribe of Levi have some magic "idolaters in their hearts" meters that showed them who to slay? No, they were setting an example in Moses' name alone.
Face the evidence. For as much of this story that might be true, it was a power play that the Old Man Moses won over his charismatic upstart lieutenant, Aaron. The rest is just garnish on the plate.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130261 May 9, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It was God's will that those with evil in their hearts be taken out of the group. I don't know why Aaron wasn't one of them other than he was foreordained to lead the priests in the Tabernacle. We don't know his heart, only God did.
Well Aaron was pretty good at leading, as he lead the people to make a golden calf to worship.
Why punish the leader?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130262 May 9, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Do I need to explain the definition of beliefs?
And to clarify, I have never told you that you might be going to hell, ever.
I have the Holy Ghost. That is how I know gospel truth. This is not the same as evidence or fact. The Holy Ghost can speak to me, or influence me, or manifest truth or instruction to me with you standing right next to me and you may never know it.
Please show your evidence, one issue at a time and let's go through it.
You showing what you think is evidence is not insulting. Calling believers delusional certainly is insulting. You can disagree with a doctrine or religion without insult. But calling those that follow the religion names is insulting. Seriously, you don't see the difference?
Your use of the word delusional is your opinion. You cannot know that a person has not spoken directly with God. You cannot know how anything happened before you were born. You can only read about other's experiences and views and examine clues and make a conclusion. So your determination of someone's mental state based off of your conclusions (or that of others) is not fact and therefore your opinion which makes it just an insult and an attempt to discredit the opposing opinion.
Anyway, be insulting if you feel you must or you just can't control yourself, regardless, present your evidence.
de·lu·sion·al [dih-loo-zhuh-nl]
1.

having false or unrealistic beliefs or opinions: Senators who think they will get agreement on a comprehensive tax bill are delusional.

2.

Psychiatry. maintaining fixed false beliefs even when confronted with facts, usually as a result of mental illness: He was so delusional and paranoid that he thought everybody was conspiring against him

The word used to describe what you are doing fit the definition. It is not an opinion that you deny the facts of the matter, you are denying the facts that have evidence. Thus they name is not an opinion.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130263 May 9, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>And claiming to have answered the question is just a claim. I objected to the claimed answer due to massive contradictions in your claims. You failed to refute my objections.
The fact is, if you cannot refute my objections, or even try, why should I try to believe in your god? I cannot just magically believe. I must be shown it is a plausible god. You have failed to show the god as plausible. You are just saying, if I do not like your answers, oh well. Well that "oh well" is why I cannot find your god.

Even your statement here contradicts. You are claiming personal evidence is given if one believes. Well why would anyone who believes need evidence? And if he is given evidence, then your entire theory of being given evidence ends the faith part is blown.

It is as if you wish not to face these problems. You clearly just accept the answers you have been told, and are repeating to me are good, without question.

Well you keep failing to understand, atheists question, theists do not. Your running from the debate is evidence to this claim.
Dude I have answered everything you have asked me. You can feel I haven't all you want to.

Why would someone that believes need evidence? They don't. However, there are many things that we need to accomplish in this life in preparation for the next. So once you believe and have faith, more is given to you, if you continue to seek more. God wishes us to actively participate in ordinances and service in this life. So the more we learn and accept and involve ourselves, the more knowledge and instructions we are given. This interaction with God solidifies our faith and our relationship with Him as we accomplish His will for us and provide service for others. This communication and series of blessings becomes solid "evidence" to believers. It is just what happens. Evidence is not necessary to have faith. Evidence to you means something that can be recreated in the same environment by another individual. This is not what I mean. Dealings with God is very different than a science experiment. It is personal and different for each individual.
I know what I have experienced with God, and I couldn't care less what you try to show me to discount my experience. This is the difference between personal revelation and evidence.
Evidence can be disproven or disagreed upon. Take theories for example. There is evidence both for, and against Bernoulli's theory. There is still disagreement there. But you can't present any evidence to me that will convince me that I have not felt the presence of the Holy Ghost and received revelation from Him.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#130264 May 9, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It was God's will that those with evil in their hearts be taken out of the group. I don't know why Aaron wasn't one of them other than he was foreordained to lead the priests in the Tabernacle. We don't know his heart, only God did.
So Aaron was given the same supposed evidence of god that the calf worshippers did, yet he was spared. That contradicts your earlier claim that these people had to die due to the loss of free will of belief.
You made an absolute claim, then showed that it was not absolute.
It is a contradiction. Contradictions show flaws in ideas.
Maybe you should just claim god and Moses wanted them to be killed, instead of claiming they had to be killed.
There is no morality in the story, no matter how you try to spin it, so at least try to make a statement that is not full of contradictions.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#130265 May 9, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>You keep claiming you have been given evidence, so does that mean if you ever doubt god you will be killed on the spot?
You just contradicted yourself again. I cannot understand why you cannot see this giant contradiction.
You seem to think god appearing and the evidence you have been given are different to the theory you claim. Why? If you accept something as evidence, then it is evidence, period.

You and the other believers here claim to "know" god exists. So claiming the ones who have seen god are no different in the context you claim.

Now you inject a new paradigm you have not claimed before. You seem to be insisting the holy spirit is the only way we can know of god. Well again, "knowing" is no different no matter how it is known.
You seem to be claiming how one comes to know matters, and if one knows due to god showing up on your doorstep somehow changes freewill. Well you have yet to explain what it changes and why.
These things matter. Maybe it is hard for you to understand why it matters because you already believe. But if you wish others to believe, you have to explain things clearly, and not expect us to just accept an answer with no logic or follow up questions.
Only God knows the hearts of men and only He knows His plan for each one of us. Circumstances and blessings and punishments are different for each one of is because of these things that we are not privy to at this time. This doesn't mean it is contradictory. It means there are more variables in place than the ones we can see.

I'm not asking you to believe anything I am telling you. I have only asked that if you wish to believe, then study the things of God with full intent to change your life and dedicate it to God when He answers you. If you do not have full intent to change your ways, then you are just tempting God and probably will not receive any kind of an answer because you aren't really looking for one anyway. So instead of wasting hours on here talking to me and trying to clarify with someone that understands very little about the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, ask God yourself and you too can receive this witness of Him that you will joyously accept and that you cannot deny. There is no other way. This kind of knowledge and experience can only come from Him. I expect no one to live off of my testimony alone.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#130266 May 9, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Do I need to explain the definition of beliefs?
And to clarify, I have never told you that you might be going to hell, ever.
I have the Holy Ghost. That is how I know gospel truth. This is not the same as evidence or fact. The Holy Ghost can speak to me, or influence me, or manifest truth or instruction to me with you standing right next to me and you may never know it.
Please show your evidence, one issue at a time and let's go through it.
You showing what you think is evidence is not insulting. Calling believers delusional certainly is insulting. You can disagree with a doctrine or religion without insult. But calling those that follow the religion names is insulting. Seriously, you don't see the difference?
Your use of the word delusional is your opinion. You cannot know that a person has not spoken directly with God. You cannot know how anything happened before you were born. You can only read about other's experiences and views and examine clues and make a conclusion. So your determination of someone's mental state based off of your conclusions (or that of others) is not fact and therefore your opinion which makes it just an insult and an attempt to discredit the opposing opinion.
Anyway, be insulting if you feel you must or you just can't control yourself, regardless, present your evidence.
I am not calling you the name "delusional," I'm describing the practice of living out a fantasy.
It is not my "opinion" that plants were not created before the sun, that Jonah did not survive 3 days in a fish, that a deity did not part the Red Sea or that a social reformer did not literally and miraculously walk on water. Neither is it my "opinion" that the sky is up, that water is wet or that fire is hot.
You make statements that are completely unsubstantiated and play games with words to avoid being accountable for substantiating those statements - because YOU CAN'T and you CAN'T because they are not grounded in reality. That is what I read of your experiences, views and clues and it is the same as what any other rational intelligent thinking person would. If you find that insulting, stop saying inane things.

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