Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 180256 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#117221 Nov 16, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Well , you claim that you don't know what or who created life because it is not known.
And I have never said that I know ,I've said that I Believe.
And one of the reasons why I believe as I do , is that in my view only a Supernatural being , who has ALWAYS existed and needs no creator , who posseses a Supernatural life ,supernatural consciousness and Supernatural intelligence is equipped to provide
life,consciousness and intelligence to inferior beings whom he creates.
You want to call that a MYTH, do so.But,you do so based on the fact that you don't know
Therefore it can be said that your faith is based on "you don't know"
My faith is based on my beliefs , which you may call myths.
That does not matter to me , I know and fully understand the basis for my beliefs and they are not based on myths. That is your opinion , based on ignorance ,due to the fact that you are ignorant of the basis for my beliefs.
You pass judgement on something you know nothing about and are totally unfamiliar with.
You have the makings of an Atist Scientist
The god of the bible is clearly a myth, and you claim this is the intelligent designer that needs no rules to exist that you have for all other life and intelligence.

If you wish to believe in this god/ creation story, fine, but you have insisted we are irrational for not believing the story. It has absolutely zero evidence of fact.
Do not expect it to be put in science books, as it is not science. It is religion. It is inserting a god of religion into a gap of knowledge. It is your religious belief. Keep it where religion belongs.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117222 Nov 16, 2013
Your argument is that we can see Intelligent Design everywhere and therefore automatically attributes the existence and nature of things -- stars, animals, proteins, etc.-- to design.
It does not necessarily follow, however, that only one designer is responsible for all that is designed. By recognizing the existence of design, we invite -- even beg -- the possibility that there are as many intelligent designers as there are things designed, since after all, the existence of multiple designs need not imply a single designer. IDest like to point to paintings as evidence of painters and buildings as evidence of builders, but we of course know these things to be designed because we designed them. If we apply this same exact logic to the natural world, we would have to conclude that the sun is evidence of a sun designer, a tree evidence of a tree designer, a human evidence of a human designer, and so on, because they are separate things just like paintings and buildings are separate things and have separate designers. To assume a single designer is to conceptually unify an abundance of phenomena (meaning all the objects that are designed) without any real or sufficient justification for doing so. Positing that a designer or designers are responsible for those phenomena which we do not believe can be explained by "natural" causes, is to provide an explanation which raises a series of unanswerable questions about this hypothetical designer(s)(e.g. who designed the designer(s) and where did it/they come from?) and discourages further scientific inquiry into those matters which have been explained away by the invocation of intelligent agency. Such an explanation, of course, is no explanation at all.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#117223 Nov 16, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
Let's assume Intelligent Design created everything...
To presuppose automatically the existence of a (perhaps supernatural) designer is to preclude real, thoughtful, scientific research in accordance with the scientific method, since science deals only with observable, measurable, phenomena.
Let's talk about the second part of the definition {The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. Through the study and analysis of a system's components, a design theorist is able to determine whether various natural structures are the product of chance, natural law, intelligent design, or some combination thereof. Such research is conducted by observing the types of information produced when intelligent agents act. Scientists then seek to find objects which have those same types of informational properties which we commonly know come from intelligence.}
How does one come to the conclusion that 'natural selection' is an undirected process??
Selection is not guided by a Designer....it is guided by a fundamental logic inherent in the way the populations of species develop through time. Specifically, organisms with the highest likelihood of passing on their genes are those best-adapted to their environments due to their having particular characteristics which are conducive to survival and procreation.
You are describing the mechanics involved ,nowhere is there an explanation as to how creation may have been caused by any of these mechanisms.
If it were so, then Atheist Scientists would be able to employ these natural methods and create life ,or consciousness or intelligence.
Instead , since the mechanisms are not creators , Atheist Scientists are working feverishly in their labs ,under controlled conditions trying to design a formula that will permit them to create the simplest form of life...Which they have failed to accomplish.
Then again , they are trying to create that which they claim DOES NOT NEED A CREATOR,,,the irony of it all.
BTW, quote your sources , to not do so will earn you a trip to the HERSHEY FACTORY...a LITTLE HUMOR, DON'T GET UPSET

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117224 Nov 16, 2013
You cannot prove your god created or even existed. Your entire statements are based on faith.
How could you possibly determine whether the universe is intelligently designed when you have no other universe with which to compare it? Indeed, what would a non-designed universe look like? Or, what would an unintelligently designed universe look like?

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#117225 Nov 16, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
So Lennox is curious' hero of quote mining and bias confirmation, while Craig is his champion of circular logic. Anything that is not inside his circle of self-deceit must be a free range herring swimming in the smoke. <shrug>
Hitchens always nails Craig with the simple question, who created god? Of course Craig does just as all fundies do, he says god needed no creator, and expects that to somehow answer the question. The audience gets a good laugh in, unless it is at Liberty University.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#117226 Nov 16, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Seems it is you who is psychoanalyzing.
Lets continue this psychoanalysis. I think Curious is not really disgusting, I think he has just been brainwashed to believe some disgusting things about god are good things. So if he were to actually realize the god was not real, I would think he would not be in that delusion anymore.
But realistically, I do not see Curious coming around to my side. I debate him for other reasons. According to Curious, those reasons are for my inner wishes to be near god. More realistically it is to reach others reading the conversation. Some is just for fun, some for practice writing. At the least, it gives me something to do while I hang out at the coffee shop. Otherwise, I would probably mindlessly stare at people and look like a freak.
You disappoint me Mikey, as you and Lodi have always claimed you are posting from your jobsites,all the while you are stuffing your face with coffee and donuts at the local Starbucks in Mt. Dora.
That must be the place where Witchetty works full time.
I was there once and the old crone tried to stick me with a bill for an empty cup of coffe and the whole from a donut.
When I was there ,next to my booth was a bedraggled guy drinking his lunch out of a brown paper bag , Had a pet 3 eyed alligator with him. Any idea who that guy might be? He stole my wallett

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117227 Nov 16, 2013
I'm not insisting that my opinions are 100%. And again just my opinion. I'm not trying to force anyone to see things my way. For the record, I'm not beyond thinking of a "greater reality" or "higher consciousness"

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117228 Nov 16, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Well , you claim that you don't know what or who created life because it is not known.
And I have never said that I know ,I've said that I Believe.
And one of the reasons why I believe as I do , is that in my view only a Supernatural being , who has ALWAYS existed and needs no creator , who posseses a Supernatural life ,supernatural consciousness and Supernatural intelligence is equipped to provide
life,consciousness and intelligence to inferior beings whom he creates.
You want to call that a MYTH, do so.But,you do so based on the fact that you don't know
Therefore it can be said that your faith is based on "you don't know"
My faith is based on my beliefs , which you may call myths.
That does not matter to me , I know and fully understand the basis for my beliefs and they are not based on myths. That is your opinion , based on ignorance ,due to the fact that you are ignorant of the basis for my beliefs.
You pass judgement on something you know nothing about and are totally unfamiliar with.
You have the makings of an Atheist Scientist
Same as You Don't Know either.....Your Belief is based on Faith, not facts....
To assert that the universe (or even just certain objects or animals) are intelligently designed, is not only to assert an understanding of what intelligent design looks like and entails, but is to claim an understanding of what non-design and/or unintelligent design looks like, and also to be able to tell the difference between them using what will undoubtedly be arbitrary criteria. Therefore, ID is not a legitimate scientific theory, but the exact opposite: a purely speculative hypothesis whose breathtaking ambiguity serves not to advance understanding, but to stifle it by suggesting the unknowable and the untestable as an explanation for natural phenomena.
In other words "god did it'

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117229 Nov 16, 2013
It's 10:50 p.m. I'm not working tonight, although I have pulled night shifts in the past. I was lucky to get this Saturday off.

Nice diversion btw
forgot witch # that tactic that was when you were getting pummeled in a debate, perhaps you can refresh my memory.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117230 Nov 16, 2013
I'm just saying if your god is the Intelligent Designer here.... he wasn't too intelligent. IDest like to claim that the beginning of Cambrian period lends credence to the idea of intelligent agency, the subsequent extinction of Cambrian organisms poses yet another problem for ID. If the universe is intelligently created, how does one account for the fact that over 99% of all species that have ever existed are no more? That's some design. Rather than deal a blow to evolutionary theory, the implicit lesson of the Cambrian "explosion" seems to confirm one of its fundamental maxims -- that only the fittest shall survive. Thankfully, this principle also applies to scientific theories, and hopefully in due time the American public will realize that Intelligent Design is so insufferably weak that it should no longer be allowed to live.
Known Fact of Florida

Orlando, FL

#117231 Nov 16, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
<quoted text>
Same as You Don't Know either.....Your Belief is based on Faith, not facts....
To assert that the universe (or even just certain objects or animals) are intelligently designed, is not only to assert an understanding of what intelligent design looks like and entails, but is to claim an understanding of what non-design and/or unintelligent design looks like, and also to be able to tell the difference between them using what will undoubtedly be arbitrary criteria. Therefore, ID is not a legitimate scientific theory, but the exact opposite: a purely speculative hypothesis whose breathtaking ambiguity serves not to advance understanding, but to stifle it by suggesting the unknowable and the untestable as an explanation for natural phenomena.In other words "god did it'
I'm curious---If you Atheists could succeed in convincing ever human being alive that there is no god---How would that benefit you? Maybe further Satan's ambition but I fail to see how that could possibly benefit you. Please enlighten me.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117232 Nov 16, 2013
One more thing....why would an Intelligent Designer create anything and every thing including life forms, when the end results are going to be destroyed anyway??

What was the purpose? Did he do this just to see if he could?

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117233 Nov 16, 2013
Of course the above being your belief that destruction is inevitable.....
Known Fact of Florida

Orlando, FL

#117234 Nov 16, 2013
I'm curious---If you Atheists could succeed in convincing ever human being alive that there is no god---How would that benefit you? Maybe further Satan's ambition but I fail to see how that could possibly benefit you. Please enlighten me.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117235 Nov 16, 2013
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.
I'm merely stating my opinion. Whether you agree or not is up to you.
I don't believe in satan either.
Known Fact of Florida

Orlando, FL

#117236 Nov 16, 2013
stuck in a lodi wrote:
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.
I'm merely stating my opinion. Whether you agree or not is up to you.
I don't believe in satan either.
By the same reasoning why not decide there are no thieves either and because of your opinion you leave all of your belongings open so anyone can take what they want. Would your opinion serve as a protection for you. I am sure Satan is delighted because you choose not to believe in him! 2 Corinthians 4:4

Since: Apr 11

Los Angeles, CA

#117237 Nov 16, 2013
Let's describe/define god. If we don't there can't be any real debate. God is all knowing/powerful, and has a set of rules he wants us to know. Now, here's a fact, we don't all know those rules. So, either god doesn't have the ability to tell us the rules, which would make him not all knowing/powerful, and thus not god. Or he wouldn't have rules he wants us to know, and then he wouldn't be god.

Since: Apr 11

Los Angeles, CA

#117238 Nov 16, 2013
Known Fact of Florida wrote:
<quoted text>
By the same reasoning why not decide there are no thieves either and because of your opinion you leave all of your belongings open so anyone can take what they want. Would your opinion serve as a protection for you. I am sure Satan is delighted because you choose not to believe in him! 2 Corinthians 4:4
Provide ANY evidence Satan exists. ANY at all. Free clue: Buy bull quotes don't count.

Since: Apr 11

Los Angeles, CA

#117239 Nov 16, 2013
Known Fact of Florida wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm curious---If you Atheists could succeed in convincing ever human being alive that there is no god---How would that benefit you? Maybe further Satan's ambition but I fail to see how that could possibly benefit you. Please enlighten me.
It would free people. The battle for the right to marry someone of another race was a battle against "god", just like the battle for gay marriage is. Belief in god holds people back. It has impeded science. Think of how many people have been killed because people believed god wanted them to kill. 9/11 is an example.

Since: Sep 13

United States of America

#117240 Nov 16, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
You are describing the mechanics involved ,nowhere is there an explanation as to how creation may have been caused by any of these mechanisms.
If it were so, then Atheist Scientists would be able to employ these natural methods and create life ,or consciousness or intelligence.
Instead , since the mechanisms are not creators , Atheist Scientists are working feverishly in their labs ,under controlled conditions trying to design a formula that will permit them to create the simplest form of life...Which they have failed to accomplish.
Then again , they are trying to create that which they claim DOES NOT NEED A CREATOR,,,the irony of it all.
BTW, quote your sources , to not do so will earn you a trip to the HERSHEY FACTORY...a LITTLE HUMOR, DON'T GET UPSET
Sources:
[1] http://www.intelligentdesign.org/whatisid.php .

[2] Ernst Mayr. "The Objects of Selection". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. Vol. 94, No. 6. March 18, 1997. Available at http://www.pnas.org/content/94/6/2091.full .

[3] Christopher J. Schneider. "Natural Selection and Speciation". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. Vol 97, No. 23. November 7, 2000. Available at http://www.pnas.org/content/97/23/12398.full .

[4] "What Causes DNA Mutations?" at http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/archive/slooze... .

[5] Michael Behe. Darwin's Black Box. Free Press. New York, NY. 1996.

[6] Richard Dawkins. The God Delusion. Houghton Mifflin. New York, NY, 2006.

[7] Michael Land and Dan-Eric Nilsson. Animal Eyes, Oxford University Press. USA, 2004.

[8] Richard A. Fortey, E.G. Briggs, and Matthew A. Wills. "The Cambrian evolutionary 'explosion' recalibrated". BioEssays, Vol. 19, No. 5. May 1997

[9] For an excellent overview of the evolution of the eye, see W.J. Gehring. "New Perspectives on Eye Development and the Evolution of Eyes and Photoreceptors". Journal of Heredity, Vol. 96, No. 3. 2005. Available at http://jhered.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/... .

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