Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,417

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
SistaNoneYa

London, KY

#113138 Sep 15, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
Not me, you mistake me for someone that gives a crap about your paranoid delusions....
No mistake-just checking.

(it's wierd!)

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#113139 Sep 15, 2013
SiserNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
9/11 was the result of bad people, doing bad things, then manipulating and brainwashing others to "follow" them.
Let's REALLY look at some of the "background" Duquette, and NOT pretend, shall we? Can we do that for a REAL change?
Some recent stuff on al Zawahari, bin_ladens mentor, who at one time was arrested and tortured for his role part in the POLITICAL assassination of Anwar Sadar-
------
Inside the U.S., the FBI monitors approximately 100 individuals with Islamist extremist leanings, who have expressed a desire to commit violence, fund terror groups or otherwise communicate with known terrorists overseas, ABC News reported exclusively this week. That number isn't expected by the U.S. intelligence community to change in the coming years, according to intelligence and law enforcement sources.
Many of those are radicalized in part or motivated by videos, statements and jihadi chatrooms they found online, where al Qaeda's media wing, As Sahab, posts Zawahiri's speeches. But those messages resonate with westerners when they're from young, charismatic leaders like Alabama-reared ex-Shabaab commander Omar Hammami who speak in English -- not Arabic -- which Al Qaeda and its affiliates has increasingly employed in its propaganda, according to analysts.
In his 9/11 anniversary tape -- released the day after the actual anniversary -- Zawahiri urged al Qaeda's followers to "monitor and lie in wait and seize any opportunity to land a large strike on it, even if it takes years of patience for this..
( http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/al-qaeda-leader... )
----
This man (still at the steering helms) was a sage for bin_laden.
Can you/would you, like to define "Qutb" and comprehend Duquette?
I tend to see it as a term that defines a desire to "cloud peoples understandings of God" per say, via means of chaos and anarchy.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say it matters not, that I personally might find some versus of the Bible to resonate some truly beautiful passages (amongst all the other many varying types of writings within it).
As in reading such does NOT cloud my perception one iota, of good, bad, moral, immoral, right, wrong etc., as I (as well as many others) have SENSE enough to comprehend the existances of all of the aforementioned character traits.
So even when one removes "religion" from the picture you seemingly wish to paint, we will still witness, all those same character traits in people, in some cases worse perhaps even, for LACK of any true decency then, to base a "norm" of expectations for humanity upon.
What then Duquette? What would you blame it all on then?
Ignorance is no excuse Duquette. Not for terrorism via jihadism, not for political terrorism, not for terrorism of any type, because no matter what way anyone views the word terrorism, it is wrong.
It is wrong and immoral to terrorize others...especially just for the sole sake of self fullfillment, be it religious, political or any other sick, pathetic, deviant and depraved excuse.
DO yo know why it is WRONG Duquette?
Simply stated-
TERRORISM
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion.
— ter·ror·ist adjective or noun
I know what is wrong, and the terrorism that Deuteronomy 13 6-10 is wrong and their is no excuse for it. Yet I keep seeing the Christians here excusing this brainwashing propaganda.
Their is absolutely nothing beautiful about the passage of Deuteronomy 13 6-10. If you would like to tell me of its Beauty, please do.
Now if you wish to rip out the non beautiful passages and keep the good ones, I say, what is the point? You knew what passages were good or bad, how? It is not due to religion, you knew it otherwise.

And I am not blaming all bad things upon religion, but does that mean religion is free of bad things, or that I should ignore the bad it causes or promotes?
The propaganda of religion is the root cause of 9/11.
herb

Frankfort, KY

#113140 Sep 15, 2013
he didn't step on her head!!!

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#113141 Sep 15, 2013
SiserNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
And I would ask of you, exactly what it is you are basing your ideologies upon?
Should others believe in a different realm(s) of "Qutb"(s) would you consider them kafirs, rather than respecting beliefs that might be different?
While I persnally think humanity SHOULD abide by codes of civil decency, ethics, integrity, respect of and for others, and other GOOD qualities-
I find many of the types of "punishments"and behaviors practiced in the ways of the Old Testament, to be very barbaric and brutal, cruel and inhumane, with out any goodness or enlightenment...instead being rather ignorant and animalistic.
Bravo. It looks as if you are taking note of my point, or at least part of it. I think the person you respond to cannot differentiate what is moral or not. He blindly accepts what is in the bible and claimed of god is moral, no matter what. And here in lies the problem. If one is told god is condoning the terrorism or bad deed whatever it is, the blind believer is more willing to carry out said bad deed. In the case of 9/11 this propaganda tactic worked well for the Islamic leaders.
If you look at the Christians on this thread, you will see they all blindly believe all of the things attributed to god in the bible are absolutely true and moral. They do not see it as ignorant of animalistic. So if their leader tells them a bad thing to do, what stops them if they think their leader is privy to gods message?
SistaNoneYa

London, KY

#113142 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>
but does that mean religion is free of bad things, or that I should ignore the bad it causes or promotes?
The propaganda of religion is the root cause of 9/11.
Of course not.

And I still think POLITICs and the barabaric, dark age, UNdemocratic THUGGARY of power grabs are jut as much, if not more, to blame as religion.

Ever read a bio on al zawahari?

Read slowly...word for word (and DO notice-it was well before ANY Bush admin!!!!!)

How did Zawahiri become involved with Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda?

Zawahiri and bin Laden's collaboration began in the city of Peshawar, in the Pakistan-Afghanistan border region, in 1980. Zawahiri, a surgeon, was working for the Red Crescent Society, the Islamic affiliate of the International Committee of the Red Cross. Bin Laden had come to Peshawar to raise money. The city, a haven for Afghani refugees fleeing Soviet occupation and the home of a relatively open black market for weapons and narcotics, was bristling with militant Islamist sentiment.

Zawahiri had been active organizing Islamic extremists since he was fifteen, when he became the leader of a small group of student militants dedicated to overthrowing Gamal Abdel Nasser's secular Egyptian government. Upon meeting bin Laden, he at once understood the wealthy Saudi's potential usefulness to his personal ambitions. In 1980, experts say, bin Laden was politically motivated but ideologically malleable. And he was very wealthy.

In 1981, Zawahiri was arrested and imprisoned, along with dozens of other radicals, for collaborating in the assassination of Egypt's President Anwar Sadat. Prison time only redoubled Zawahiri's fervor. Not long after his release, he took over leadership of the terrorist organization Egyptian Islamic Jihad, which the United States believes helped to organize the August 7, 1998, bombings of U.S. Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. In 2001, according to widely accepted accounts, Zawahiri formally merged the Egyptian Islamic Jihad with bin Laden's al-Qaeda network. The group is now officially named Qaeda al-Jihad.

Zawahiri grew up in the Egyptian town of Maadi. Maadi's residents were notably moderate in their religious practices, but Zawahiri was the product of an unusually strict, and unusually illustrious, home. His father's uncle, Rabi'a al-Zawahiri, was the grand imam of Cairo's al-Azhar University, a position that has been described as being of "papal" importance within the Muslim world. His mother's family was also prominent. Her father, Ayman's grandfather, served as the president of Cairo University and founded King Saud University, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

In terms of the origins of Zawahiri's militant ideas, he was an admirer of Sayyid Qutb, a radical Islamist whom Zawahiri has quoted glowingly in his own writings. Qutb, an Egyptian who lived in the United States in the early 1950s (NPR), believed the country to be impure and spiritually unstable. He felt the only escape from the West's heavy influence was Islamic fundamentalism, holy war, and martyrdom. A true Muslim, according to Qutb, should fight to topple not only Western countries and Westerners, but also Western sympathizers in Egypt and other Muslim nations. Qutb was arrested and imprisoned in 1954 for plotting to kill Nasser, then arrested again and executed, in 1966, for his involvement in a Muslim Brotherhood plot to overthrow the Egyptian government.

Notice as well...some of this stems from places that could NOT be considered as "ignorant lots of mere camel herders" either.
SistaNoneYa

London, KY

#113143 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>I know what is wrong, and the terrorism that Deuteronomy 13 6-10 is wrong and their is no excuse for it. Yet I keep seeing the Christians here excusing this brainwashing propaganda.
Their is absolutely nothing beautiful about the passage of Deuteronomy 13 6-10. If you would like to tell me of its Beauty, please do.
Now if you wish to rip out the non beautiful passages and keep the good ones, I say, what is the point? You knew what passages were good or bad, how? It is not due to religion, you knew it otherwise.
And I am not blaming all bad things upon religion, but does that mean religion is free of bad things, or that I should ignore the bad it causes or promotes?
The propaganda of religion is the root cause of 9/11.
and as far as the rest-since it's an easy copy and past REPEAT-

I was taught REALITY- to have and always practice common SENSE, self accountability, respect of and for others differences in cultures and beliefs, ethics and decency....then expected to remember what we were taught and to know better than to try and use ignorance as an excuse for anything...

A favorite saying of one of my own parents-

"Use the brain in your head".
Excuses or feigned ignorance weren't acceptable.

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#113144 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Just attempt to explain why it would be a just killing?
You want me to attempt to justify a killing of which I am not aware and which you have not identified?
I do not posses the ability to do that
SistaNoneYa

London, KY

#113145 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Bravo. It looks as if you are taking note of my point, or at least part of it. I think the person you respond to cannot differentiate what is moral or not. He blindly accepts what is in the bible and claimed of god is moral, no matter what. And here in lies the problem. If one is told god is condoning the terrorism or bad deed whatever it is, the blind believer is more willing to carry out said bad deed. In the case of 9/11 this propaganda tactic worked well for the Islamic leaders.
If you look at the Christians on this thread, you will see they all blindly believe all of the things attributed to god in the bible are absolutely true and moral. They do not see it as ignorant of animalistic. So if their leader tells them a bad thing to do, what stops them if they think their leader is privy to gods message?
I never said I didn't think brainwashing wasn't a part of herd pack type terrorism, because without a doubt, most time it is.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#113146 Sep 15, 2013
SiserNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, Let me ask YOU Duquette...what it is that you find so UNjust, or immoral about these verse?
I find them to be quite peaceful, full of TRUTH and GOODness, not hatred and vileness.
1 Corinthians 13
1If I could speak all the languages of earth and of angels, but didn’t love others, I would only be a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I understood all of God’s secret plans and possessed all knowledge, and if I had such faith that I could move mountains, but didn’t love others, I would be nothing. 3If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;a but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.
4Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8Prophecy and speaking in unknown languagesb and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever! Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture! 1But when the time of perfection comes, these partial things will become useless.
11When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.c All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
13Three things will last forever—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.
First, I have already acknowledged not all things in the bible are bad, so just what is your point? If you wish to rip out all the bad of the bible, go for it.

Second, I do not agree with this passage, but it is not immoral on its own.
If you give all to the poor, you do gain something, and society might gain something, so it is not in vain despite the claims of this passage.

As I pointed out earlier, many kill in the name of love.
To many absolutes in the passage. Love is not always patient and kind.

The problem I have with the bible is it claims some sort of perfection, some moral perfection, and it is far from it.
And demanding it not be criticized only compounds this problem.

Since: Aug 13

Location hidden

#113147 Sep 15, 2013
SiserNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
And I would ask of you, exactly what it is you are basing your ideologies upon?
Should others believe in a different realm(s) of "Qutb"(s) would you consider them kafirs, rather than respecting beliefs that might be different?
While I persnally think humanity SHOULD abide by codes of civil decency, ethics, integrity, respect of and for others, and other GOOD qualities-
I find many of the types of "punishments"and behaviors practiced in the ways of the Old Testament, to be very barbaric and brutal, cruel and inhumane, with out any goodness or enlightenment...instead being rather ignorant and animalistic.
Give me some specifics as to which of the behaviours in the Old Testament that you find to be barbaric and brutal.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#113148 Sep 15, 2013
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said I didn't think brainwashing wasn't a part of herd pack type terrorism, because without a doubt, most time it is.
And my main point on this thread has been, I think the bible is part of the brainwashing. It is chock full of brainwashing techniques and propaganda. It is brainwashing propaganda, brilliant.
And I get the object is inanimate, but it speaks if one can read. And if one reads it, it can teach. And it teaches some pretty bad things in my opinion. And no, not all of it is bad, but when it tricks you into thinking it is all good, this is when the brainwashing leads to the reader doing bad, in the name of good.
SistaNoneYa

London, KY

#113149 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>First, I have already acknowledged not all things in the bible are bad, so just what is your point? If you wish to rip out all the bad of the bible, go for it.
Second, I do not agree with this passage, but it is not immoral on its own.
If you give all to the poor, you do gain something, and society might gain something, so it is not in vain despite the claims of this passage.
As I pointed out earlier, many kill in the name of love.
To many absolutes in the passage. Love is not always patient and kind.
The problem I have with the bible is it claims some sort of perfection, some moral perfection, and it is far from it.
And demanding it not be criticized only compounds this problem.
That might be okay for folks like Mother Theresa, who made a lifetime choice to adhere to such altrueism.

However, that does NOT hold true for other more secular societies Mike.

Would you like if some, especially those that barely turn a hand in life at anything, except what they can take from others, drained you day after after day, of that of which you HAD to work hard for and earned honestly, just to get by?

I don't think so....no one would, when not by choice.

I would disagree that the Bible itself claims any such type of thing. Again, it is a BOOK, an animate object.

Do some try and USE it, to stroke their own fantasies of self righteousness?? Absolutely.
Personally, I don't think that's what it's meant for, but that's just my opinion.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#113150 Sep 15, 2013
tema wrote:
<quoted text>
You want me to attempt to justify a killing of which I am not aware and which you have not identified?
I do not posses the ability to do that
First, I said "a would be killing". The bible is demanding the person and group to kill in Deuteronomy. Now if this was carried out for the reasons Deuteronomy gives, explain how this is a "just reason"?

The bible explains how Moses demanded killing for worshiping a golden calf. Can you explain how this is "just"?
SistaNoneYa

London, KY

#113151 Sep 15, 2013
tema wrote:
<quoted text>
Give me some specifics as to which of the behaviours in the Old Testament that you find to be barbaric and brutal.
All anyone has to do is read it for themselves....so...read it for yourself.

I'm a take care of myself and my own type person, and beyond that, I don't owe "giving" anyone anything.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#113152 Sep 15, 2013
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
I know..because I know what the TRUE meaning of it is as well YaA.
It is an illustrious example of-
"Do Unto Others...." and that we are supposed to treat people how we would like to be treated ourselves.
Duquette CAN be rather "bullyish" ...which is a rather thuggish trait.
You don't need to go there either-Duquette. Just trying to Bully others around is for LOSERS as well.
The point I was trying to make was, the Catholics were not happy back in the days when the Protestant version,(the one you cited) was mandated in schools over the Catholic version (the one I cited). The government respected the establishment of the protestant religion over the Catholic one, or at least it sure looked this way by its mandate and choice of prayer.
The point being, instituting religion in the government square is problematic in most, if not all cases. This is why the founders made America a secular nation by instituting the separation clause in the constitution.
SistaNoneYa

London, KY

#113153 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>And my main point on this thread has been, I think the bible is part of the brainwashing. It is chock full of brainwashing techniques and propaganda. It is brainwashing propaganda, brilliant.
And I get the object is inanimate, but it speaks if one can read. And if one reads it, it can teach. And it teaches some pretty bad things in my opinion. And no, not all of it is bad, but when it tricks you into thinking it is all good, this is when the brainwashing leads to the reader doing bad, in the name of good.
I get that...in fact, it makes me think of that old cliche, "the pathways of hell are often paved with good intentions".

(St. Bernard of Clairvaux about 1150, L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés ou désirs ("Hell is full of good intentions or wishes").

Also a similar proverb as well , n'est pas?
SistaNoneYa

London, KY

#113154 Sep 15, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>And my main point on this thread has been, I think the bible is part of the brainwashing. It is chock full of brainwashing techniques and propaganda. It is brainwashing propaganda, brilliant.
And I get the object is inanimate, but it speaks if one can read. And if one reads it, it can teach. And it teaches some pretty bad things in my opinion. And no, not all of it is bad, but when it tricks you into thinking it is all good, this is when the brainwashing leads to the reader doing bad, in the name of good.
another interesting quaotation-

"It is self-evident that no number of men, by conspiring, and calling themselves a government, can acquire any rights whatever over other men, or other men's property, which they had not before, as individuals. And whenever any number of men, calling themselves a government, do anything to another man, or to his property, which they had no right to do as individuals, they thereby declare themselves trespassers, robbers, or murderers, according to the nature of their acts." -Lysander Spooner
number 8

Somerset, KY

#113155 Sep 15, 2013
wondering about god knows anyone know where god knows has been 4 so long?
zooo

Somerset, KY

#113156 Sep 15, 2013
its been a while can't wait till u see me face 2 face

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#113157 Sep 15, 2013
SistaNoneYa wrote:
<quoted text>
That might be okay for folks like Mother Theresa, who made a lifetime choice to adhere to such altrueism.
However, that does NOT hold true for other more secular societies Mike.
Would you like if some, especially those that barely turn a hand in life at anything, except what they can take from others, drained you day after after day, of that of which you HAD to work hard for and earned honestly, just to get by?
I don't think so....no one would, when not by choice.
I would disagree that the Bible itself claims any such type of thing. Again, it is a BOOK, an animate object.
Do some try and USE it, to stroke their own fantasies of self righteousness?? Absolutely.
Personally, I don't think that's what it's meant for, but that's just my opinion.
What might be Ok for mother Theresa?
How do you go from, giving all you have with no love, to taking all others have? This was not part of the discussion.
I do not live in a black and white world where all people are all good or all bad. Some love a bit and give a lot. Some love a lot but take a lot. Sometimes love does help for motivation in giving, but it certainly is not all exclusive for motivation in giving. Some give to get some back. It is an exchange of sorts, maybe in the spirit of capitalism. Maybe in the spirit of Karma.

Again, my main problem is acting as if one way is the only way or is the absolute moral way. The bible does not open the discussion, it closes it, or at least tries to.

It does not matter what the bible was ultimately meant for. It just came to be through evolving history. I do not think the inanimate object had a goal. Men who wrote different parts of it had varying goals as most men do vary. But no matter their personal goals, if it is poorly stated or flawed, it may lead to giving propaganda to other goals all to easily. I would think any god would know better and would not have such massively flawed ways.
Main point, the book is not perfect, the ideas are not perfect, but all to many think it is perfect.

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