Another sinkhole opens in Palmyra

A sinkhole in the parking lot of Members 1st Federal Credit Union, 960 E. Main St., Palmyra, is expected to be repaired by the end of this week. Full Story
Great Reporting

State College, PA

#1 Jul 8, 2010
They have been working on that SINKHOLE at least for a month and a half. Since the Credit Union opened they had to tear that back up, just because it's off the main road doesn't mean we don't see the backhoes when we drive by. Maybe if you left 8th and Poplar and stopped waiting for the Patriot News to publish a story so you could piggy back you could have reporetd this six weeks ago.

By the way, The sinkhole in front of sinkhole saloon continues to get deeper, what give? It doesn't matter what they throw in it.
gotta wonder

United States

#2 Jul 8, 2010
Ever ask yourself how all these new banks went up around here smack in the middle of a banking crisis?

Its not a sinkhole.

Its a new technique for taking our money:
1. you walk in the front door with it.
2. You lay it in their hands.
3. And they abscond with it through not-so-underground tunnels.
isitjustme

York, PA

#3 Jul 8, 2010
gotta wonder wrote:
Ever ask yourself how all these new banks went up around here smack in the middle of a banking crisis?
Its not a sinkhole.
Its a new technique for taking our money:
1. you walk in the front door with it.
2. You lay it in their hands.
3. And they abscond with it through not-so-underground tunnels.
Members 1st is NOT a bank, it's a credit union - BIG difference
Doing it right

Langhorne, PA

#4 Jul 8, 2010
Unlike Penn Dot this privately owned Sinkwhole has been repaired properly, and yes I agree it has been over a month, but I am sure it will not be the same half @ $ $ job they keep doing on 422. Lawsuits on 422 are paid with Taxpayer money, privately owned...it gets done right the first time.
Funky Tut

Lebanon, PA

#5 Jul 8, 2010
Palmyra is living on borrowed time.

The entire town is doomed to fall into the earth.

Have they done any studies to determine how large the cavern beneath the town is and how far down the town will fall?
Lebanon idiot patrol

United States

#6 Jul 8, 2010
Just recognize the layout of the land, and put the f#cking stream back in there already.
Accretion, attrition, sinkholes; do we really want to keep pursuing a self-defeating plan of paving over shlt that is better left unpaved. Again, LDN, the real story here is that humans are stupid, not that mother nature is ubiquitous and powerful. Isn't there one human animal in Leb Cty that actually uses their brain to THINK about things?
To isitjustme

United States

#7 Jul 8, 2010
Thanks for distinguishing that Metro is a credit union and not a bank.
.
It is not lost on me that your response DIDN"T DENY that this not-a-bank-but-a-credit-union may also be using the new technique of taking our money by absconding with it through these not-so-underground tunnels.
isitjustme

York, PA

#8 Jul 8, 2010
To isitjustme wrote:
Thanks for distinguishing that Metro is a credit union and not a bank.
.
It is not lost on me that your response DIDN"T DENY that this not-a-bank-but-a-credit-union may also be using the new technique of taking our money by absconding with it through these not-so-underground tunnels.
So, your meds kick in when?
Property Owner

Lebanon, PA

#9 Jul 8, 2010
Lebanon idiot patrol wrote:
Just recognize the layout of the land, and put the f#cking stream back in there already.
Accretion, attrition, sinkholes; do we really want to keep pursuing a self-defeating plan of paving over shlt that is better left unpaved. Again, LDN, the real story here is that humans are stupid, not that mother nature is ubiquitous and powerful. Isn't there one human animal in Leb Cty that actually uses their brain to THINK about things?
You sound angry. Also you are a human is does that mean you are stupid as well?
Captain caveman

Clyde, NY

#10 Jul 11, 2010
I'm a caver from York and have some experience in caves in the Palmyra as well as an understanding of the karst geology of the area. There is most likely a very extensive cave system underlying most of Palmyra, Annville and Hershey. I've been in portions of it over the last two years. The two main reasons there is such a problem are: the derangement of the natural surface drainage and the artificial lowering of the water table underneath the town. The large amount of paved areas unnaturally focus huge amounts of stormwater runoff into naturally occuring depressions. Prior to development of the area there were hundreds of pre-existing sinkholes and very little surface runoff in the form of surface streams. Baselevel prior to the quarrying was the Quittie, Killinger creek etc. All of the rain that fell over Palmyra would've been quickly channeled underground into these many sinkholes. Now you have certain areas receiving sometimes several million gallons of water over a very short time period. This basically washes out the natural soil fill that exists above a very irregular, pitted bedrock surface. Because of the low overall topographic relief in the area most of the cave system would've been underwater. Now these cave passages have been drained and the concentrated runoff forces the soil cover down into the caves. I know because I've seen it from the inside out. The key to solving the problematic sinkholes like the one in front of the Sinkhole Saloon is get in there and really open up the throat of the sinkhole. Then go down and explore and survey the cave underneath. Then you create a permanent reinforced drain directly into the cave with a locked gate. Periodically the cave should be inspected to make sure everything is working. That's all. Really quite simple. The caves themselves are able to handle the water. What doesn't work is this never ending and expensive plugging of the sinkholes. Engineer the sinkholes to allow them to function in the way nature created them to.
Property Owner

Lebanon, PA

#11 Jul 13, 2010
Captain caveman wrote:
I'm a caver from York and have some experience in caves in the Palmyra as well as an understanding of the karst geology of the area. There is most likely a very extensive cave system underlying most of Palmyra, Annville and Hershey. I've been in portions of it over the last two years. The two main reasons there is such a problem are: the derangement of the natural surface drainage and the artificial lowering of the water table underneath the town. The large amount of paved areas unnaturally focus huge amounts of stormwater runoff into naturally occuring depressions. Prior to development of the area there were hundreds of pre-existing sinkholes and very little surface runoff in the form of surface streams. Baselevel prior to the quarrying was the Quittie, Killinger creek etc. All of the rain that fell over Palmyra would've been quickly channeled underground into these many sinkholes. Now you have certain areas receiving sometimes several million gallons of water over a very short time period. This basically washes out the natural soil fill that exists above a very irregular, pitted bedrock surface. Because of the low overall topographic relief in the area most of the cave system would've been underwater. Now these cave passages have been drained and the concentrated runoff forces the soil cover down into the caves. I know because I've seen it from the inside out. The key to solving the problematic sinkholes like the one in front of the Sinkhole Saloon is get in there and really open up the throat of the sinkhole. Then go down and explore and survey the cave underneath. Then you create a permanent reinforced drain directly into the cave with a locked gate. Periodically the cave should be inspected to make sure everything is working. That's all. Really quite simple. The caves themselves are able to handle the water. What doesn't work is this never ending and expensive plugging of the sinkholes. Engineer the sinkholes to allow them to function in the way nature created them to.
Now this dude knows his sh*t when it comes to sinkholes!!!!!!!
Denny Zeigler

Harrisburg, PA

#12 Feb 12, 2013
Captain caveman wrote:
I'm a caver from York and have some experience in caves in the Palmyra as well as an understanding of the karst geology of the area. There is most likely a very extensive cave system underlying most of Palmyra, Annville and Hershey. I've been in portions of it over the last two years.Bone-Norman
I need to talk to you Captain caveman, if you are still around. I lived in palmyra, and was only getting more interested in caving as I was leaving there. There was a depression behind the house I lived in in a field that I always wondered about, as well as the questions of what masive system must be under this town that it just keeps taking in more dirt and fill. That's the search that led me to your post here, as no one really seems to talk about it, but with the massive amounts of sinks as well as the quarrying (large quarry) going on nearby, I knew there had to be something large here. I would love to talk to you more about it, but no way to get a hold of you. I would really like to know the location of some of these cave sections in palmyra, maybe even have a buddy to check them out with if you are up for it, and could share any info that I have regarding the location of other caves if interested. I am always on the lookout, including caves that are now flooded in quarries (I scuba dive, but not cave certed yet). The only way I can think of that you could contact me, since I don't want to drop an email address here, is to go to my blog, http://aslongasimalive.wordpress.com and drop me a comment somewhere. I have had other people drop comments, I don't post that comment with an email or any personal info, but some of these other folks have become friends and we have done kayaking trips, etc in the past. Up to you, but I would love to hear from you.

Thanks,

Denny

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