Missouri proposes to criminalize those who pressure for abortions

“We're putting a burden on a husband who may want to get a divorce for a myriad of reasons”

Husbands and wives can divorce in Missouri without needing a reason. But abortion opponents want to make it a crime if a man threatens divorce to pressure his wife into an abortion. via KMOV-TV Saint Louis

[Cpetr13]

Should it not also be a crime then for a man to threaten a divorce if the woman HAS the child?

This is frigging ridiculous. MO evidently thinks that women are completely incapable of making rational decisions or telling people--including their husbands--to buzz off when they have to deal with important issues. It is simply insulting to require a medical facility to post signs discouraging a patient from the legal decision they have made; this has nothing to do with protecting women and everything to do with controlling or coercing them.

Some women regret having an abortion, but the majority do not. Moreover, many women regret having kids, but the state is strangely mute on protecting them from their actions. Wonder why?

[Ocean56]

Cpetr13 wrote:

Should it not also be a crime then for a man to threaten a divorce if the woman HAS the child?
This is frigging ridiculous. MO evidently thinks that women are completely incapable of making rational decisions or telling people--including their husbands--to buzz off when they have to deal with important issues. It is simply insulting to require a medical facility to post signs discouraging a patient from the legal decision they have made; this has nothing to do with protecting women and everything to do with controlling or coercing them.
Some women regret having an abortion, but the majority do not. Moreover, many women regret having kids, but the state is strangely mute on protecting them from their actions. Wonder why?

It's not just ridiculous, it is freaking alarming. It is another way of targeting those of us who value reproductive freedom, including the option to use birth control as well as abortion. It's a 21st century version of the draconian "Comstock Laws."

S.I.N.= Self Inflicted NONSENSE

[Ami STL]

I wonder if you have to have such a threat in writing in order for it to be valid?

I mean, if my man threatens to divorce me and I start telling everyone who will listen that its because he wants me to get an abortion and I don't want one yet he denies this, who do you believe?

I guess if you get such a threat, you need to say, "OK, dear, now could you put that threat in writing?"

One would think that ALL of Missouri's problems must be solved for legislators to spend time on this garbage. Our schools must be perfect, our roads immaculate, healthcare intact for everyone, no hunger or poverty.

I assure you that none of the above is true.

Sorry. My state sucks balls.:(

[godless by choice]

"from the article"
Anti-abortion activists say the bill is necessary to protect women.

stupid pro lifers....this is gonna create more hassles....

[been there done that]

My, my aren't we all emotional on this one. The fact is that most women who have abortions give the reason "they had no choice." Puts an interesting spin on the phrase "pro choice". Many, many women are coerced, forced, pressured,(pick your word) into having abortions myself included (by my husband) and anyone who thinks this is a "just say no" opportunity is either ignorant or terribly naive. Cpetr13 and others are clearly speaking from emotion not knowledge. Huge numbers of women regret their abortions and many feel helpless to do otherwise at the time. It doesn't get much more vulnerable than pregnant with a partner who doesn't want it.

[AKOne]

been there done that wrote:

My, my aren't we all emotional on this one. The fact is that most women who have abortions give the reason "they had no choice."

No one asked us our reasons for having an abortion. And if they had, our answer would have been - "nonya". We knew our choices. We knew our circumstances. We knew our lives. We knew what we were doing.

"We had no choice" is stupid. Everyone has a choice. The question is, do they have enough backbone to not blame others for their own life choices?

[AKOne]

ChickyforChoice_ wrote:

You have to wonder what will constitute coercion?
What if a teen gets pregnant, the boyfriend says, "I do not want this and want you to have an abortion", she says "NO"! He breaks up with her.....is he a criminal?
What if she gets mad and claims he tried to force her to abort?
What if a man is pissed that his wife is having an abortion and tells that SHE threatened to divorce him if he did not allow an abortion? Has HE been coerced?
What if a woman is being divorced, after she had an abortion to keep her husband, and is bitter when he leaves a year later, anyway? Can she cry coercion after the fact?
What if a pregnant woman gets fired for stealing? Can she claim, as revenge, that it happened because her boss wanted her to abort?
What if a pregnant girl gets expelled for fighting? She could do that same thing.
These freaks just keep getting more and more desperate. MO has a zealot, wing nut, governor. Eventually he will be gone and all of this nonsense will stop.

Great questions.

Did you take into account the ever popular "self-coercion"? Could a woman sue herself for that?

[Cpetr13]

Why are you with a partner or husband you can't stand up to? Damn, grow up! What was he gonna do--perform the abortion himself if you refused? Leave you? Good riddance! He'd still be liable for child support if you had the kid. Or would it have meant getting a job and fending for yourself? Welcome to reality.

BTW--if you have a husband or partner, shouldn't you have discussed this prior to getting pregnant? Stop playing the victim--you have options.

You have choices; you just don't like them all. That is life. And there is a difference between believing you don't have a choice and being coerced; in many such instances, they feel they have no choice due to circumstances, not threats.

been there done that wrote:

My, my aren't we all emotional on this one. The fact is that most women who have abortions give the reason "they had no choice." Puts an interesting spin on the phrase "pro choice". Many, many women are coerced, forced, pressured,(pick your word) into having abortions myself included (by my husband) and anyone who thinks this is a "just say no" opportunity is either ignorant or terribly naive. Cpetr13 and others are clearly speaking from emotion not knowledge. Huge numbers of women regret their abortions and many feel helpless to do otherwise at the time. It doesn't get much more vulnerable than pregnant with a partner who doesn't want it.

[Bitner]

Cpetr13 wrote:

Why are you with a partner or husband you can't stand up to? Damn, grow up! What was he gonna do--perform the abortion himself if you refused? Leave you? Good riddance! He'd still be liable for child support if you had the kid. Or would it have meant getting a job and fending for yourself? Welcome to reality.
BTW--if you have a husband or partner, shouldn't you have discussed this prior to getting pregnant? Stop playing the victim--you have options.
You have choices; you just don't like them all. That is life. And there is a difference between believing you don't have a choice and being coerced; in many such instances, they feel they have no choice due to circumstances, not threats.
<quoted text>

Well said.

I too have had an unplanned pregnancy. I too have had friends and family attempt to talk me into an abortion. I just said no. It was real easy, and if my husband had threatened to leave me if I didn't, I'd have told him to go take a flying leap. Well, maybe I wouldn't have been THAT nice :)

No wonder the gov't thinks women are incapable of making their own deciions, with this kind of whiny victim mentality. What is wrong with these women?

[Ami STL]

Bitner wrote:

<quoted text>
Well said.
I too have had an unplanned pregnancy. I too have had friends and family attempt to talk me into an abortion. I just said no. It was real easy, and if my husband had threatened to leave me if I didn't, I'd have told him to go take a flying leap. Well, maybe I wouldn't have been THAT nice :)
No wonder the gov't thinks women are incapable of making their own deciions, with this kind of whiny victim mentality. What is wrong with these women?

I don't think anything is wrong with women, just with legislators who THING there is some problem with women. These MO legislators proposing this garbage are MEN. The language of the proposed bill makes one think that women are weak, stupid, easily influenced, and need to be protected from their own stupidity and naivete.

That's not women.

That's a bunch of male politicians masking desire to control women and sex that women have with implied compassion for the poor, defenseless women of MO.

Don't be fooled.

I'm not.

[Ami STL]

Bitner wrote:

<quoted text>
Well said.
I too have had an unplanned pregnancy. I too have had friends and family attempt to talk me into an abortion. I just said no. It was real easy, and if my husband had threatened to leave me if I didn't, I'd have told him to go take a flying leap. Well, maybe I wouldn't have been THAT nice :)
No wonder the gov't thinks women are incapable of making their own deciions, with this kind of whiny victim mentality. What is wrong with these women?

The names of these old white men who want to "protect women" from themselves are:

Robert Wayne Cooper, Republican
Robert F. Onder, Republican

The bill is not currently on the calendar in the state house or senate, so it should likely not see the light of day.

I'll let you know if another peep from them is heard, and I'll give you all e-mail addresses and phone numbers so you can register your opinions on these issues.

I say Missouri women (and ALL women) are smart enough and strong enough to make their OWN HEALTHCARE DECISIONS!!!!

[Bitner]

Ami STL wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't think anything is wrong with women, just with legislators who THING there is some problem with women. These MO legislators proposing this garbage are MEN. The language of the proposed bill makes one think that women are weak, stupid, easily influenced, and need to be protected from their own stupidity and naivete.
That's not women.
That's a bunch of male politicians masking desire to control women and sex that women have with implied compassion for the poor, defenseless women of MO.
Don't be fooled.
I'm not.

True, but there are women who are complicit in allowing men to treat them as though they have no brains. Those women frustrate the heck out of me.

[Leria]

Cpetr13 wrote:

Should it not also be a crime then for a man to threaten a divorce if the woman HAS the child?
This is frigging ridiculous. MO evidently thinks that women are completely incapable of making rational decisions or telling people--including their husbands--to buzz off when they have to deal with important issues. It is simply insulting to require a medical facility to post signs discouraging a patient from the legal decision they have made; this has nothing to do with protecting women and everything to do with controlling or coercing them.
Some women regret having an abortion, but the majority do not. Moreover, many women regret having kids, but the state is strangely mute on protecting them from their actions. Wonder why?

Actually, this is really about demonizing men. Frankly, I have gotten a bunch of females pregnant. Have I EVER threatened them with leaving them unless they got an abortion? No, because I told them BEFOREHAND I wasn't sticking around and it would be a good idea to be on birth control, and had them put in writing and with a signed statement that if they got pregnant, the baby wasn't my responsibility.

Did that ever keep females from sleeping with me? No, to be quite blunt.... they just had me take them to the doctor, those who didn't have transportation, and got on birth control.

It's time to make it clear to women that if they get an abortion, unless someone grabs them, forces them into a car and DRAGS them into the abortion clinic, that it is their own responsibility and their own choice, and they have to live with their own choice.
This is another reason why I say MAKE ABORTION ILLEGAL! And also make it illegal to even suggest abortion to a mother as a solution to their pregnancy crisis.

Anyway, we wouldn't even have this if we did the SANE THING and made females be on birth control from the age of 7 unless they sign a form saying that they are TRYING to get pregnant.

[Cpetr13]

Gee, dickweed, maybe you could put on a condom and take some responsibility, and stop spreading any STD's you have in th bargain.

The refusal of straight people to practice safe sex is pathetic and childish.

Oh, btw, you can sign any paper you want, but that won't hold up in court. The mother can't sign away the child's right to support without going through the court.

Why would the "sane thing" be to only have the females on birth control? Why not give every teenaged boy a vasectomy and hope it can be reversed later? And why are you having sex with 7yo's? You can't even get pregnant at 7.

Leria wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually, this is really about demonizing men. Frankly, I have gotten a bunch of females pregnant. Have I EVER threatened them with leaving them unless they got an abortion? No, because I told them BEFOREHAND I wasn't sticking around and it would be a good idea to be on birth control, and had them put in writing and with a signed statement that if they got pregnant, the baby wasn't my responsibility.
Did that ever keep females from sleeping with me? No, to be quite blunt.... they just had me take them to the doctor, those who didn't have transportation, and got on birth control.
It's time to make it clear to women that if they get an abortion, unless someone grabs them, forces them into a car and DRAGS them into the abortion clinic, that it is their own responsibility and their own choice, and they have to live with their own choice.
This is another reason why I say MAKE ABORTION ILLEGAL! And also make it illegal to even suggest abortion to a mother as a solution to their pregnancy crisis.
Anyway, we wouldn't even have this if we did the SANE THING and made females be on birth control from the age of 7 unless they sign a form saying that they are TRYING to get pregnant.