A Fault Line for 'Intelligent Design'

Full story: KTLA-TV Los Angeles

LEBEC, Calif. - Tucked in the raw folds of the Tehachapi Mountains, 63 miles north of Los Angeles and a time warp away in ambience, this town is not used to being the center of attention.

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Since: Dec 06

Dade City, FL

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#1378
Feb 22, 2007
 
think wrote:
Maybe you guys are not aware that the teaching of evolution completely breaks down the belief systems of many people. Beliefs systems that are valuable to them.
And maybe you guys are not aware that without the option to learn ID, these belief systems are bound to break down.
To some people learning facts is more important. But to others keeping tradition regardless of reason is more important.
Like I said, ID people have the right to live wth a fabricated worldview if it fuels their traditional lifestyles.
I think what matters is sensitivity to the fact that these fabricated belief systems mean everything to some people. To many people.
You may pass it as trivial as the spagetti monster or whatever but to them, it's anything but trivial. To be open-minded is to understand that.
The government may rule the schools, but the people ultimately rule the government.
But evolution is a fact, so that's irrelevant. What if someone had a belief system that things fall to earth because fairies pull them down, and this belief were very important to them? SHould gravity not be taught because it might tear down someone's treasured belief system? The whole concept sounds crazy and just plain silly, but it is NO different from the ID v. evolution issue.

So what you are saying is that facts are irrelevant, all that matters is majority rule? Fascinating way to view the world and run a country!
think

United States

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#1379
Feb 22, 2007
 
pbfa wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is it you think you're responding to?
obviously not you.
think

United States

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#1380
Feb 22, 2007
 
Fossil Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolution is reality...you CAN'T repeal reality.
You have to wonder about the belief systems of some people if they disintegrate THAT easily.
I've always said that is a very real sense, the people with the WEAKEST faith are fundamentalists...
Disprove ONE TINY DETAIL of what they believe...and the whole "house of cards" collapses...
ok.

can you somehow relate that to what I said about people having freedom?
Fossil Bob

Urbana, IL

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#1381
Feb 22, 2007
 
think wrote:
<quoted text>
ok.
can you somehow relate that to what I said about people having freedom?
Ok...

They have the freedom to tell the kids whatever they want...

They can even say the teachers are all liars...and the scientists are all corrupt conspirators.

Of course, if they say it to me..they'd better be able to prove it :)

“Beauty on four legs”

Since: Sep 06

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#1382
Feb 22, 2007
 
think wrote:
<quoted text>
ok.
can you somehow relate that to what I said about people having freedom?
Are you somehow defending the right of people to believe in nonsense? Why do think the right to be stupid, uninformed & delusional is being threatened?
think

United States

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#1383
Feb 22, 2007
 
Dennis2 wrote:
<quoted text>
But evolution is a fact, so that's irrelevant. What if someone had a belief system that things fall to earth because fairies pull them down, and this belief were very important to them? SHould gravity not be taught because it might tear down someone's treasured belief system? The whole concept sounds crazy and just plain silly, but it is NO different from the ID v. evolution issue.
So what you are saying is that facts are irrelevant, all that matters is majority rule? Fascinating way to view the world and run a country!
LOL.

your analogies are almost flawless. Except for this one flaw.

most people in America believe in gravity. There are few people who don't. On the other hand, there are many many people who believe in intelligent design and base their lives on it.

In life, you gotta balance things. Weigh them. It's not just one or the other.

I am not saying that facts are irrelevant, nor am I saying all that matters is majority rule.

It's a little more complex than that.

Facts are relevant. In fact, they are relevant to a relative degree. Majority rule matters too. But that doesn't mean it's all that matters. You gotta weigh how important these ID beliefs are to how much of the nation's population against the costs involved in supporting it. Being considerate of how the world is. Now that's a fascinating way to view the world and run a country!

“Beauty on four legs”

Since: Sep 06

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#1384
Feb 22, 2007
 
OOPS! Why do ****YOU**** think the right to be stupid, uninformed & delusional is being threatened?

Since: Dec 06

Dade City, FL

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#1385
Feb 22, 2007
 
think wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
your analogies are almost flawless. Except for this one flaw.
most people in America believe in gravity. There are few people who don't. On the other hand, there are many many people who believe in intelligent design and base their lives on it.
In life, you gotta balance things. Weigh them. It's not just one or the other.
I am not saying that facts are irrelevant, nor am I saying all that matters is majority rule.
It's a little more complex than that.
Facts are relevant. In fact, they are relevant to a relative degree. Majority rule matters too. But that doesn't mean it's all that matters. You gotta weigh how important these ID beliefs are to how much of the nation's population against the costs involved in supporting it. Being considerate of how the world is. Now that's a fascinating way to view the world and run a country!
That's not fascinating except for it's utter ridiculousness!! You have a terrifying worldview. Where acceptance of lies, incorrect statements, erroneous beliefs, are ok when they are important enough to a large enough group of people. IF reality and facts happens to undermine portions of the belief of a large segment of the population....GOOD!!! It's about time they woke up and entered the real world. Again, this has nothing to do with believing in a god, as one can accept scientific facts and believe in a god. However, supressing truth and facts, pushing scientific reality aside because it might make some people re-evaluate their belief systems and actually use critical thinking skills, is an ATROCIOUS way to go through life, and is incredibly irresponsible and dishonest. Do you realize that what you are espousing is essentially institutionalized lying in the name of their version of God...just to keep them happy?? I can't imagine anything more hypocritical.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

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#1386
Feb 22, 2007
 
Dennis2 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not fascinating except for it's utter ridiculousness!! You have a terrifying worldview. Where acceptance of lies, incorrect statements, erroneous beliefs, are ok when they are important enough to a large enough group of people. IF reality and facts happens to undermine portions of the belief of a large segment of the population....GOOD!!! It's about time they woke up and entered the real world. Again, this has nothing to do with believing in a god, as one can accept scientific facts and believe in a god. However, supressing truth and facts, pushing scientific reality aside because it might make some people re-evaluate their belief systems and actually use critical thinking skills, is an ATROCIOUS way to go through life, and is incredibly irresponsible and dishonest. Do you realize that what you are espousing is essentially institutionalized lying in the name of their version of God...just to keep them happy?? I can't imagine anything more hypocritical.
Dennis & pbfa...

I would join in and give my 2 cents worth, but you guys (or guy & gal rather) are doing a great job without my help...plus I can't think of anything to add.

Since: Dec 06

NorCal

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#1388
Feb 22, 2007
 
hexene wrote:
<quoted text>
What is a born again Darwinist.
One who fell off the wagon and then got back on again after the fundamental concussion wore off.

Since: Dec 06

NorCal

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#1389
Feb 22, 2007
 
think wrote:
science is not majority rule. amen.
but denial and free choice and even the free choice to deny is a person's freedom.
what matters is... is this denial important to many people? and is it important on a big enough scale that it requires tax payers' money to fuel it?
you should look at the stats of how much of the population are ID supporters and see if this denial is important to this country that's for the people by the people.
if it is, you shouldn't rip it out of their hands.
Should we teach history by majority rules or by accurate research that is peer reviewed and substantiated by experts in the field.

Should we teach English by how the majority of Americans speak or by the tried and true rules of the language?

Should we teach science based on verifiable facts or by religious conclusions reverse engineered into anything that is not offensive to fundamentalists.

You are correct that a large number of people in the country do not believe in evolution but it is not a majority. Virtually no other advanced country on the planet has numbers higher than us, we barely beat out Turkey when it comes to a percentage of the population that does not believe in evolution.
Frankly I do not think that is something to be proud of.

This is a link to a chart of how we compare on the issue of evolution compared to other Western Nations. It is scary and embarrassing.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigph...

“Beauty on four legs”

Since: Sep 06

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#1390
Feb 22, 2007
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Dennis & pbfa...
I would join in and give my 2 cents worth, but you guys (or guy & gal rather) are doing a great job without my help...plus I can't think of anything to add.
pbfa scoots over - always room for you, DS!

“Rattling for Chemistry”

Since: Dec 06

Deep Swamps of Georgia

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#1391
Feb 22, 2007
 
Ridge wrote:
<quoted text>
One who fell off the wagon and then got back on again after the fundamental concussion wore off.
LOL!

Since: Dec 06

Saint Petersburg, FL

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#1392
Feb 23, 2007
 
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Dennis & pbfa...
I would join in and give my 2 cents worth, but you guys (or guy & gal rather) are doing a great job without my help...plus I can't think of anything to add.
Yeah, sometimes they just make rebutting them so easy! Especially when it's a subject that really gets me annoyed..the INTENTIONAL teaching of proven false facts within our educational system just because it makes some people more comfortable or happy! The idea of a school ever intentionally teaching falsehoods just blows my mind. Education is way too important to be screwed with that way.
Healthy in the OC

Laguna Niguel, CA

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#1394
Feb 23, 2007
 
There is nothing "telling" about a misspelling...spelling is NOT linked to intelligence in any way, in fact, some of the most intelligent people are poor at spelling, even those with higher levels of education...just google this to find a lot of research that says so...just as typos do not indicate anything other than one's finger hit the wrong key....Bravo to the dad who is standing up for his son's right to take a class of his interest even if it is not politically popular!!
oh get real wrote:
NO ONE is prevnting you from the free exercise of your religion. You as an individual can pray whenever and wherever you want. YOur chldren can do so as well, individually. Their right to free exercise thereof guarantees taht to you and to them. What you can NOT do is use the coercive power o the government, especially in a mandatory environment involving children, to push YOUR particular religious variant with offical civil imprimature. Meaning official school power and authority MAY NOT be involved.
This may be "intercession" (uhh... it's inter-session, dude. Intercession is what priests do with G_d, in some particualar religions. That is a telling misspelling)... anyway, this may be intersession, but it is still advertised, offered, made available by the school so it comes with official public (government) approval and imprimature, and that constitutes, in small (and impermissible) part, establishment.
Adn I say this as someone who attends services, who prays.. and who's religion is NOT your religion. I'll thank you to keep your particular religious variant out of the power stucture of the schoosl my kids adn fellow citizens attend, because we adn many otehr religious people dont believe what you believe.
BTW, evolution is "just a theory" in exactly the same way that gravity is "just a theory" or chemcial bonds are "just a theory." If you are going to make such statements, try to first learn enough that you dont embarass yourself with them.
.<quoted text>

Since: Dec 06

Santa Barbara, CA

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#1395
Feb 24, 2007
 
Another Hyopcrite wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, you've just shown yourself to be a hypocrite, also. You don't want others to prevent a woman from killing her child, you don't want others from preventing crossdressing, or condemning homosexual activity, yet it is you and your kind that want to shove your belief system (evolution) down our throats. How dare we prevent a woman, or create legislation that would prevent a woman from killing her child. How dare we look at homosexuality in a less than normal light. To you it's biggotted if we have the audacity to place out beliefs upon you. Yet, the hypocrisy is that that is exactly what you're doing to us.
If you remember, evolution is only a theory. Intelligent design is only a theory (intelligent design is not necessarily creationism). Creationism is only a theory. You need to get back to the scientific premise of education and teach all theories on equal ground. When one theory has more prominance that others...that's discrinmination taught by biggots. In this day and age it's the biggots proposing evolution.
If you remember, all the Scopes trial was asking for was equal footing in education. What happened? Unequality begat unequality in the name of equality. The oppressed became the oppressor.
You are aptly named. You don't understand what theory means in scientific circles. Here's a clue: It doesn't mean "hunch."
Dark Jedi

Oklahoma City, OK

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#1396
Feb 24, 2007
 
Get it right wrote:
<quoted text>The Term "Separation of Church and State" was never a phrase used by our Founding Fathers. Why? Because they didn't believe in the separation of church and state.
You desperatetly need to go back to school, they failed you the first time around.

The phrase comes from Thomas Jefferson, to clarify the establishment clause of the first amendment.
mrbananas

United States

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#1397
Feb 24, 2007
 
Ridge wrote:
<quoted text>
Should we teach history by majority rules or by accurate research that is peer reviewed and substantiated by experts in the field.
Should we teach English by how the majority of Americans speak or by the tried and true rules of the language?
Okay class today we are going to cover the F word. Its one of the few words not found in the dictionary. its partt of speech is, noun, verb, adjective, and in some cases a preposition.

now for definations
1. The universally recognized "F word"
2. N. Implying complete and utter confusion
3. N. a really stupid person
4. V. To procreate
5. adj. Can be used to modify any word for more passion
6. Int. Expresses disgust
7. Int. Expresses complete suprise and joy
8. adv. Can be used to make a command more urgent

and tommorrow we will cover the sign language version of this word.

Today in History class, Hitler was Jewish and America won the Second world war single handedly without any major help from any other country because we're number 1.[/sarcasm]

Since: Mar 07

United States

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#1399
Mar 8, 2007
 
Why can't people just believe in DUMB LUCK!

There was nothing, then the Universe full of energy, then a whole bunch of matter, then the coincidental comingling of elements, then the Universe EVOLVING to a position of observing itself(ie US!)

I believe ONLY in dumb luck, and as such would never think of buying a lottery ticket(unless the prize beat the odds by at least a factor of 1...)

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