Why are Mormons so racist and judgemental?

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Roofus

Tooele, UT

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#1
Nov 7, 2008
 

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I am in the Air Force, and I moved out here to Utah a little over a year ago. I mainly chose Utah for the scenery and mountain biking. What I am not comfortable with is the constant pressure my 17 y/o son gets at his high school about "converting" to Mormon.

Mormon people seem to be SO judgemental about anyone who isn't LDS, and judgemental about the way we live our lives and the things we've experienced in our lives.

I am white, but the black military people that work for/with me HATE it here, because they get treated like they don't exist down town.

And now that President Elect Barack Obama has been elected, it seems that black people's front porch flags are being torched in Ogden.

What the hell is the matter with these people? Why does Utah have to be so much different than any other part of the U.S.?

It's like living in another country...
SOUTH OGDEN DOG PARK

Salt Lake City, UT

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Nov 7, 2008
 

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I was saddened to read your comment, Roofus. However I have lived here for 4 years and I agree with what you wrote.

This fall I got a Criminal Trespass Citation from South Ogden Chief of Police Val Shupe. For my work on the:
South Ogden Dog Park (google that site on flcikr). I have described my experience with South Ogden Police Department on Weber County Forum/Election Day 2008-the polls are open (under ACLU).

Yes, with Obama's national mandate, more people are happy to remind Mormons in Utah that not all people who move to Utah, like living here. Rather, their job is here. Hill AFB employs about 4000 people locally. They live all over Davis County and Weber County.
Dickey

United States

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Nov 7, 2008
 

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Did you ever think that maybe you went out there looking for trouble? How many flags have been torched. They are different, because the things you may enjoy, they don't.
SOUTH OGDEN DOG PARK

Salt Lake City, UT

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Nov 7, 2008
 

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You live in LA? Do you even know where South Ogden Utah is? Have you visited all of Weber County?

Have you visited Ogden City recently? To see that MaYOR GODFREY is marketing it to the GLOBAL outdoor sports community. Check out the site:
EnvisionOgden.org

Lots of people who work at Hill AFB....... LIVE in Weber County because it is only 45% Mormon, according to the last 2005 census that the Ogden/Weber Chamber published. Maybe not all Hill AFB people are members of the O/W Chamber. But the info is out there generally.

South Ogden is a Mormon enclave. So it is no surprise that is where this Hate Crime happened, as this FLAG BURNING on these people's front porch, is rightfully being called. Fortunately is is getting national coverage. So I do not think it will happen again.

In LA/CA for the last 2 days, lost of folks have been demonstrating outside the Mormon temple, because they feel that Mormon Mafia Money was shipped into CA to pass Prop 8. I am sure CNN & MSNBC will continue to do great investigative reporting on what channels the Mormon Mafia used to conduit this money into CA. I am that info will fuel a reversal of Prop 8 in the near future. Another ignorant and inhuman piece of legislature.

On Weber County Forum, there was a collective sigh of relief and huge celebrating, as Road to 270+ turned into Road to 364. See:
2008 General Election Results/Real time Tallies
Di_SOL

Salt Lake City, UT

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Nov 7, 2008
 

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This Flag Burning in South Ogden keeps getting written up by SLC Trib, Deseret News, ABC news, etc. The more attention it gets the better. Follow it on google search for:
Hate Crime Flag Burning South Ogden Utah
wrose

Hyde Park, UT

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#6
Nov 8, 2008
 

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First, right off the bat, let me say that I'm a California native. I've been in Utah for several years and am dying to leave. The level of intolerance for any point of view not sanctioned by the Mormon church is a force to be reckoned with. Community services are few because you are supposed to belong to the church and they'll look after you.
I live in Ogden and had an Obama sign stolen from my yard. I put up another. The city government here borders on fascistic. You can actually get a $100 ticket if your grass is an inch too long or your car is parked crooked in your driveway. The vaunted "Utah work ethic" is nothing more than an extension of LDS programming not to question authority and let your employer walk all over you so you can snitch your fellow employees out to make yourself look good.
There is absolutely no way to convince a Utah native that the rest of the country does not feel or act the same way.
Roofus

Tooele, UT

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Nov 8, 2008
 

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Don't get me wrong...My wife and I DO like it here (to an extent). I wanted to experience all of what Utah has to offer (outdoors) during my last 2 years in the Air Force. And we are enjoying it so far...I just don't think we are going to retire here next year or buy a house, or anything like that.

I'll admit; we live a sheltered life--we both live and work on Hill AFB. Hell, most of our shopping is done on base too! But even at her job on base, most of the other employees (all civilians) are Mormon, and make rude / judgemental comments to her if she so much as says she and I are going to the enlisted club after work for a beer! They look down on her because she's not Mormon...and I hate that.

I LOVE the mountains, camping, mountain biking, Moab, and everything else Utah has to offer outdoors. But the thought of buying a house, settling down, and becoming a civilian resident here living on the local economy with this screwy government here is not appealing at all.

Also, I've never heard of public schools charging so much to register a kid for school. It cost me $400 to register my son for his senior year. WTH are people paying taxes for????

There, I'm off my Utah "soap box". I think I'll go enjoy the mountains today...:)
Di_SOL

Salt Lake City, UT

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Nov 8, 2008
 

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(rhymes with lysol)
I like the Roofus. I know there is a joke in there somewhere..........
This summer was the first year the South Ogden Dog Park was open. Lots of Hill AFB people came through there. Lots of them expressed resenting the same Mormon hierarchy at Hill that you have experienced. Living in Ogden is your best bet. Since you are an Out!Door sports fan, Ogden is made for you and your family. At least parts of it, anyway.
From FEB 2007-7.2007, my husband and I worked on EnvisionOgden.org the web site. It was set up to promote the opening of the Junction (Salomon Center, Megaplex, etc.) What we did not know while working on the web site, was the EnvisionOgden the group was set up as a political action committee, to collect and funnel money into the election campaign of Blaine Johnson, who ran for Ogden City Council NOV 2007. He won.
That site, however, is one piece of cyber marketing that gives you a view into Mayor Godfrey's plans for Ogden, since he first took office 1.2000 until now. New content to EO.org stopped going up about 7.22.2007. And lots has happened since. As well as great articles on Ogden, like the one in AUG 2008 issue of OutdoorMagazine, placing Ogden at #3 position, as great places to move to, if you like easy access to outdoor sports activities that Weber County offers. Moab is a great place to visit. But hard to find a job there.
Weber Pathways.org has a great free map that was updated in 2007, of all their trails. On their web site it tells you where to get that map for free. Like Peak Performance Running Shoes and Bingham Cyclery / Ogden. Both should carry it for free.
OgdenSierraClub.org is another great Ogden group to join for their weekend outings. Their OUTINGS Guide guide booklet can be bought at the BookShelf bookstore, now in its new location on Washington @ 2671. Lots of folks who attend the OSC outings are people from all over the country, who live in Ogden area now. Some Hill AFB folks from CA run some of the outings. All ages come on the hikes, snow shoe and cross country ski outings. Check out EO.org for gear rental. But Canyon Sports and the WSU gear store are the best price. Great end of season sales @ Canyon Sports. Then tend to sell out their rental dept each end of season.
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Di_SOL

Salt Lake City, UT

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Nov 8, 2008
 

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OgdenSierraClub.........check out their site for OUTINGS dates. You do not have to be a member of the OSC to go on their outings. You do not have to be a die hard conservationist to be part of the Ogden Sierra Club outdoor fun. Dan Schroeder, their main political voice, a full time Quantum Physics Prof @ WSU, writes up all the local political actions he & the OSC politicos are behind. Like the preservation of the Mt Ogden Lands. Again, see Dan's articles on that site. He does a good job of archiving his writings, going back years.

CanyonSports on Riverdale has a bulletin board with local sporting events. Also they know conditions. Like if there is no snow for cross country skiing / snow shoeing @ SnowBasin, then they know how the conditions are at North Fork Park. Now that OgdenNordic.org got a major RAMP FUND in 2007, to buy new trail grooming equipment, ON.org is grooming about 26 miles of trails @ North Fork 3-4 days a week. SnowBasin grooms the same amt of trails, almost every day. SnowBasin rents downhill & cross country gear too. Maybe not snow shoes. In the summer, Canyon Sports is a sponsor of the Ogden Paddle Festival, which celebrated its second year in Aug. Prior to that, Canyon Sports also sponsors the Outdoor Retailers paddle sports section, on PineView Reservoir. The new paddle sports gear CS buys from that show, gets demoed @ the Paddle Fest. Then big time on SALE at CS Labor Day SALE. Got great deals for life jackets this Labor day. One for DOG too!!! For trips out to Causey Reservoir, the best wakeless reservoir in Northern Utah.

The folks at Canyon sports all have the preferred sports. And can give you great recommendations for local sport destinations and conditions.

GoalFoundation.com/ covers a different set of Outdoor Sports events in Ogden. Both winter and summer. As I am sure you know, the Ogden marathon is qualifying for Boston. The Exterra events, winter and summer, keep expanding. Volunteering for some of those events will put you and your family in touch with the Ogden Outdoor Sports Community generally.

Ogden/Weber. Convention&VisitorsBureau site is geared to people just passing through. However it also has good information about outdoor sports events happening around Ogden. On their front page, they have 3 hot links to articles on Ogden in OutSide Mag, Nat Geo Adventure, Rock & Ice Mag.

GOODE SKI LAKE is another Ogden phenomenon. It is located out 21 st, but before RT 15. Weber Pathways trails now circumnavigate it. Dave Goode/ Goode Ski Industries has just this summer worked out an agreement with Ogden City to expand that pond by 41 acres (+/-). Goode bought that land. His company that makes feather weight/ high performance snow and water skis.......will manage Goode Ski Lake. Once the addition is done, Goode will promote and run global water ski competitions on it. As well, in there greater distant future, a SLC based music promoter hopes to build a 13,000 seat amphitheater, on the west side of Goode Ski Lake, which will function as a 4 season amphitheater for music concerts and Broadway road shows.

The Summit is Ogden best Climbing store. Also great place to get info.

BinghamCyclery..........by now you have found.

Grounds for Coffee on Harrison and Peltons, connected to Bingham Cyclery, best places to go to talk about your gear or pick up the GEAR buzz. Or any of the stores listed above. Cannot find exactly what you want @ Canyon Sports, Summit, Bingham Cyclery, Big 5, Sports Authority.........dial up REIonline, Sierra Trading Post.com , BackCountry.com . All of which have sales. Sometimes it is worth a trip to REI in SLC or BACKCountry.com warehouse in West Valley. Call ahead on that one.

There is a lot of great outdoor sports stuff happening around Ogden. Lots of people from EVERYwhere doing it.
Di_SOL

Salt Lake City, UT

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#10
Nov 8, 2008
 
I like the Roofus. I know there is a joke in there somewhere..........

This summer was the first year the South Ogden Dog Park was open. Lots of Hill AFB people came through there. Lots of them expressed resenting the same Mormon hierarchy at Hill that you have experienced. Living in Ogden is your best bet. Since you are an Out!Door sports fan, Ogden is made for you and your family. At least parts of it, anyway.

From FEB 2007-7.2007, my husband and I worked on EnvisionOgden.org the web site. It was set up to promote the opening of the Junction (Salomon Center, Megaplex, etc.) What we did not know while working on the web site, was the EnvisionOgden the group was set up as a political action committee, to collect and funnel money into the election campaign of Blaine Johnson, who ran for Ogden City Council NOV 2007. He won.

That site, however, is one piece of cyber marketing that gives you a view into Mayor Godfrey's plans for Ogden, since he first took office 1.2000 until now. New content to EO.org stopped going up about 7.22.2007. And lots has happened since. As well as great articles on Ogden, like the one in AUG 2008 issue of OutdoorMagazine, placing Ogden at #3 position, as great places to move to, if you like easy access to outdoor sports activities that Weber County offers. Moab is a great place to visit. But hard to find a job there.

Weber Pathways.org has a great free map that was updated in 2007, of all their trails. On their web site it tells you where to get that map for free. Like Peak Performance Running Shoes and Bingham Cyclery / Ogden. Both should carry it for free.

OgdenSierraClub.org is another great Ogden group to join for their weekend outings. Their OUTINGS Guide guide booklet can be bought at the BookShelf bookstore, now in its new location on Washington @ 2671. Lots of folks who attend the OSC outings are people from all over the country, who live in Ogden area now. Some Hill AFB folks from CA run some of the outings. All ages come on the hikes, snow shoe and cross country ski outings. Check out EO.org for gear rental. But Canyon Sports and the WSU gear store are the best price. Great end of season sales @ Canyon Sports. Then tend to sell out their rental dept each end of season.
Di_SOL

Salt Lake City, UT

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#11
Nov 9, 2008
 

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The demostrations in CA and SLC re Mormon Money haveing been sent into CA to support Propostiion 8 continue today. Vandalism of 3 Mormon Ward buildings in Layton may be attributed to Anti Mormon feelings, because of the Propostion 8 / Mormon Chruch connection.

In other parts of America, the separation between chruch and state seems to work. Maybe that is what Governor Huntsman will suggest.

“Grieving a BLIND nation”

Since: Sep 08

Layton, Utah

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#12
Nov 9, 2008
 

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Morman who is burning flags, turning their nose down at you, pressuring conversion, or any of these things mentioned in the previous posts is not considered a true member of the church.
I was raised Mormon, born and native to Utah, but never really went to church that much because my father is anti while my Mom was an active member. The times I did go I felt horribly awkward and had a rough time of it. I had more than a few bad experiences with PEOPLE, but in turn that turned out to be a bad experience with the CHURCH. I pretty much left the church alone around age 16. However, I married a man with strong mormon upbringing; CORRECT upbringing, and he did not judge me or pressure me to come back to the church. He ended up becoming inactive because of me, but never turned his back on it. When we had been married for about five years, I had this urge to try church again. At that time we were living in Northern California with the USAF, and we went to a small ward comprised mostly of military members and a few locals. The environment there was COMPLETELY different than what I had experienced in Utah. The teachings were no different, but the PEOPLE were. These were members from all different parts of the country, with all different walks of life. Utah, unfortunately, is something different. I tend to regard this as "The Utah Mormon Complex".
A lot of people born and raised Mormon in Utah have the holier than thou attitude, and it irks me just as much as it irks you. Please, please do not believe that this is what our religion teaches. For whatever reason, the people who act this way have not yet grasped (or it has been lost through generations passed down) the real teachings of the gospel. We are taught love, tolerance, charity, and the importance of family, being a good example--so many good things, yet, like any other aspect of human nature, we are not perfect. Some people let it go to their head, and this in itself is a sin. They are not truly practicing the faith when they become self righteous and judgemental. Believe me, they are doing themselves no favors and will have their day of judgement. I am sorry that you have not had the benefit of coming in contact with individuals who are living the gospel as it should be, but instead have come to know those who have done the church a disservice through their actions. What it really comes down to, is that it is the GOSPEL that needs to be examined, not the people. Unfortunately, it only takes the actions of a few individuals to turn a beautiful thing sour. I can sympathize with you through my own experiences when I was young. But I can testify that the gospel of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints IS beautiful, and those with their heart and MIND in the right place show that.

As far as burning flags on the doorsteps of black families, I find that appauling. Even the snootiest (spelling) Mormans I know aren't capable of such a thing, at least I hope that they aren't. If such a thing were to be discovered and enough evidence to prove that these crimes had been commited by members, they would have serious reckoning with their ward and stake leaders--if not more. I know that I personally, and my friends that I have talked to about it, have no ill will towards black people in light of Obama's nomination. I didn't personally want him as president, but it had absolutely nothing to do with the color of his skin.

I pray that you will not judge the church on the poor example of some of it's members. At it's heart and soul, it is so very different than how they have represented it.

Sincerly, a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

PS> We're moving to Kansas next month--I'm looking forward to experiencing the church outside of Utah again.:)
Roofus

Tooele, UT

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#13
Nov 10, 2008
 
Thank you for your post. ;)

Nice to know someone feels.thinks differently.
Jen

Ogden, UT

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#14
Nov 12, 2008
 

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I was born and raised in Orange county California and had the not-so-fun experience of moving to Weber County while still in high school. I WAS judged for not being mormon and had a very difficult time fitting in. Everything seemed to revolve around the mormon church.
Once I graduated, however, I had the chance to mingle with all different kinds of people. I have many friends, LDS and not, and I just purchased my first house in Ogden because I love this town!
I think its hard sometimes when you feel like you are being discrimated against, but its not fair to say that mormons are only this way or that way.
"Non-LDS" people are being just as judgemental if we put the mormons in one category.
Susan

Pocatello, ID

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Nov 13, 2008
 

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Thanks, Utah family and Jen for your comments. They are so right. There are Mormons who live their religion, and also many who do not. I also am a member of the Mormon church. I have 6 children and every single one of them has a best friend that is not a member of our Church. My kids do not push their beliefs onto their friends--they respect their friends' personal beliefs. We teach our children, as does our church, kindness and love towards all people--gay or straight, black or white, male or female. One of the gals I work with is gay, and I have the utmost respect for her even if I don't agree with her lifestyle choice.

It saddens me to hear that there are many members of the church who are not kind to their neighbors. This is a PEOPLE problem and not a CHURCH teaching. We are asked to include our neighbors in our social activities and make sure they don't feel left out if they are living in an area that has a high percentage of LDS people. Shame on those who do less, or are even unkind or mean.

Prop 8 in California was not about intolerance or hate towards gays--at least for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints it wasn't. It was about our belief that marriage is sanctioned by God as being between a man and a woman. That is our fundamental belief. We believe that defining marriage in any other way weakens the family and is against what God has commanded. We do not say this to be unkind--we cannot change our belief about marriage just to make ourselves popular in the eyes of others. As I said before, a member of our church is not hateful towards gays unless he is not living his religion. We love people whatever their beliefs and life choices--but we also believe we have a right to our beliefs. Our church even supports equal employment benefits for same sex partners--they just don't support calling a union between them "marriage". I hope that helped improve understanding about what members of the church were thinking of with prop 8 in California.

My hope is that all of you will one day find a kind member of the LDS Church living near you!
Di_SOL

Salt Lake City, UT

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#16
Nov 18, 2008
 
Thank you Susan for what you wrote above. In particular:
".......... I have 6 children and every single one of them has a best friend who is not a member of our Church (LDS). My kids do not push their beliefs onto their friends--they respect their friends' personal beliefs........"

Mormons who live in any other state besides UTAH are very different from Utah Mormons. Particularly the ones who have never lived in any other state in the US besides Utah. Missions DO NOT COUNT.

Proposition 8 in CA and Romeny running for any national office, outside of the Republican Party has put Mormons, globally, in the limelight of this discussion of human rights.

Obama's landslide has emboldened lifetime Democrats across the US to speak up. I ahve only lived in northern Utah(Ogden) for almost 4 yrs. Moving from metro NYC, where I have lived almost all of my life in different BLUE/Democratic states ( NJ, SW CT, Mass, S VT, upstate NY, NH, and NYC). My academic father brought me up as an intellectual athesist, which I still am. But he made me study comparative religions in our university town in NJ, before I went ot college in Boston.

Religious tolerance is critical, going forward. Mormons in any other state north east coast state, to include NY state, are such a minority that they are more tolerant of other religions, including atheism. It is not necessary to believe in GOD, anybody's GOD, to be kind, loving and respectiful of other peoples values. That is why the US Government, going back to the founding fathers, wrote a constitution that legalized religious tolerance. And attempted to separate Chruch and STATE.

Civil liberties of all Americans was another crittical part of the Us Constitution. Now and then. Mormons in Utah regularly forget that. How long will it take for Mormons in Utah to really understand that, when they gained statehood in 1896, they took a legal vow to separate religion and state. It h as been my experience that, more than 100 yrs later, Mormons in Utah still do not understand what it means to separate Religion and STATE and why that is important.

It is no surprisse to me, having lived in Ogden for 4 yrs, that most people who were not born in Utah and are not Mormon, but live in Utah, prefer to work with and be friends with otehr people who are alsl non-Mormon not born in Utah. This is not reverse religious profiling. It is just a practical way for non-Mormons to survive in Utah in 2008, post Decision 2008. Fortunately I do not have kids or neices and nephews who live in Utah.

Back to what Susan from Pocatello said above:
"..........My kids do not push their beliefs onto their friends--they respect their friends' personal beliefs........"

Respect for all other peoples is something we can all domore of for each other. And not worry about what religion anyone of us chooses. I have not found I have to be a Christian, Jew or Muslim or Mormon, to uphold values of supreme tolerance for other peoples religions, as specified in the Us Constitution.THAT is what makes us all AMERICANS.

Horaay for Decision 2008. Now we are all thinking more than ever. And trying to communicate with each other. Not bad.
Terrace-Boyz

Roy, UT

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#17
Nov 19, 2008
 
I understand where your coming from but me and my bestfriends are mormon and some of our bestfriends are black or christian, jewish, catholic ect. I just hate that people meet some dumb ass mormons then treat the rest of us like dirt. I do wish that shit in ogden would stop in ogden but who can say it was mormons. I'm just getting sick of someone stops liking me becuase their parents were treated badly by some peice of shit mormons
Mom

United States

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#18
Nov 20, 2008
 

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I've lived in several states across this great land of ours. You can always find the bad in the people you live around but there it is so much more rewarding to seek out the good and kind people that exist no matter where you live. We've been treated as odd and our beliefs thought of as funny but with mutual respect we have wonderful friends in all the areas where we've lived. Our family is a melting pot of different religions and political beliefs and it's okay because we treat each other with respect and kindness. Look in the mirror and ask yourself what it is you truly want to gain from living in this state and not what you are looking for to hate. You may find your attitude is attracting the wrong people. If you show kindness and respect to others you are more likely to be treated kindly and with respect. Don't make a general assumption about people of my faith and I will do the same.
newsJUNKIE

Salt Lake City, UT

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#19
Nov 20, 2008
 
Thanks Terrace-BOYZ, for weighing in. I hope your other friends, regardless of their religious faith or lack of religious faith, are reading what you have written. If you go to Ogden High School, I hope you can bring more tolerance to that school. I am not from Ogden or Utah. I just live in Ogden. But I do not know the different school districts. However, I have heard from freinds whose kids have gone to Ogden High that there is a lot of intolerance by Mormons of NON-Mormons. Not fair, really.

It is really refreshing to hear from someone your age, that you just do not care what religion any of your friends are part of. I wish that had been the case for the Black female teen, in high school in Provo.

This was a news spot on NPR Radio, in the last week. The newscaster said that a young Black woman, in the Provo High School, was approached by several male classmates after Obama won. They knew that her parents had voted for Obama. This one male classmate walked up to her and said that he hated Obama.(Pretty stupid right???? A true thinking individual.) He then added that since her parents had voted for Obama, he hated her too. This young woman then mentioned that she heard all kinds of other racist gossip around her at school, just because she was Black, Obama had won, and her High School was in Provo.

These students were not old enough to vote. Clearly they were not old enought to think for themselves either. So I guess they got their ideas from their racist parents. Just because they live in Provo does not make them Mormon. They were simply white, racist and they live in Provo.

This is a great local discussion. Seems to be attracting lots of people who really do live........currently........ in Utah. AND it is not even connected to a University. I hope Roofus from Ogden is still reading.
Di_SOL

Salt Lake City, UT

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#20
Nov 20, 2008
 

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Boycott of Sundance Film Festival in Park City/Jan 2009?

SpoutBlog
Who wants a Sundance Boycott?
http://blog.spout.com/2008/11/11/who-wants-a-...

indieWIRE
PARK CITY '09 | In the Wake of Prop 8, Film Community & Fest Organizers Defend Sundance Amidst Talk of Boycott
http://www.indiewire.com/ots/2008/11/park_cit...

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