Disprove It: Jesus Is A Sun God
HOTOTO

Cookeville, TN

#2061 Jun 26, 2013
Okay so we can agree of two of your premises. You know I also used to have some trouble with the Trinity idea.

It is like the United States is made of states. Al,TX, KY. Take some of those states away and out of the picture and there is not the United States. It would have to be called something else.

Half a cake is not a cake.

I look at it this way:

God is one God, and God is three persons in an everlasting relationship with one another, a relationship into which we are invited. That’s not contradictory. God is not one in the same way he is three, or vice-versa. But who can reduce this to some sort of formula or easy analogy?

Here’s how an apple is like the Trinity: The peel, the flesh, and the seeds- 3 parts, to 1 apple. We have 3 parts to 1 God as well: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

The peel is like God the Father, because He protects us.
The flesh is like God the Son, because Jesus is God made flesh.
The seeds are like the Holy Spirit because He helps us grow.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#2062 Jun 26, 2013
jayne wrote:
hang on a minute...jesus was a king, supposedly, from the line of david, and a priest in the order of melchi...so how was it that he was a carpenter also?
surely, as a king he wouldn't have needed to work!
It is foretold what the Messiah would do for a living, and it's not carpentry. The Messiah is supposed to be a merchant and call people.
HOTOTO

Cookeville, TN

#2063 Jun 26, 2013
jayne wrote:
hototo before you go on any further, will you please just check that out about the jehovahs witnesss bible being the most accurate translation.
it only has jesus cast as the son of god.
you seem to be someone who would be able to research this.
i haven't got round to it myself, though i have read their version of the bible.
I'll check into it. I kinda doubt that they have the most accurate as I have heard they changed the scriptures to suit what they wanted to believe. They also will not accept blood transfusions or medicines during illness. Also heard Catholics did a lot of changing things.

I heard that one of the most accurate Bibles was the Geneva Bible 1611 version. This was written before King James and King James was written from this. You can still get copies of this but it is reported that it is very difficult to read the old English dialect and understand it.

I know that there was debate about whether Jesus was the part of God or a Man who was a saved and then God turned him into the Messiah during early christianity. Half the christians believed one and the other half believed he was a part of God sent to earth.

At the Council of Nicea the church leaders got together and decided from reviewing the teachings and scripture he was a part of God and rejected the other belief and that is where this came from. Done My Homework could probably give us clarification on this as he has more study than I.
HOTOTO

Cookeville, TN

#2064 Jun 26, 2013
Jesus as the Sun
throughout History

by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S

Excerpted from the ebook

The contention of Christian sun worshipping not only emerged early in Christian history but also lingered well into the fifth century, as St. Augustine was compelled to address it as well, in his "Tractate on the Gospel of John" (XXXIV, 2):

St. Augustine (354-430)

I think that what the Lord says, "I am the light of the world," is clear to those that have eyes, by which they are made partakers of this light: but they who have not eyes except in the flesh alone, wonder at what is said by the Lord Jesus Christ, "I am the light of the world." And perhaps there may not be wanting some one too who says with himself: Whether perhaps the Lord Christ is that sun which by its rising and setting causes the day? For there have not been wanting heretics who thought this. The Manichaeans have supposed that the Lord Christ is that sun which is visible to carnal eyes, exposed and public to be seen, not only by men, but by the beasts. But the right faith of the Catholic Church rejects such a fiction, and perceives it to be a devilish doctrine: not only by believing acknowledges it to be such, but in the case of whom it can, proves it even by reasoning. Let us therefore reject this kind of error, which the Holy Church has anathematized from the beginning. Let us not suppose that the Lord Jesus Christ is this sun which we see rising from the east, setting in the west; to whose course succeeds night, whose rays are obscured by a cloud, which removes from place to place by a set motion: the Lord Christ is not such a thing as this. The Lord Christ is not the sun that was made, but He by whom the sun was made. For "all things were made by Him, and without Him was nothing made." (Augustine, 200. Emph. added.)

jayne, you can see from the statement above that Jesus was not meant to be worshiped as a sun. However it does seem that some early sects of christians integrated pagan beliefs and practices into their religions. Eygpt christians who used to worship sun gods mingled their practices as did many other Sun worshiping religions. The authors of the Bible also used Sun as a symbol or metaphor just like Light symbolized something else.

I have found a detailed article about Sun Worship and early christianity. Some of this I agree and some I disagree.

It was written by two American Historians who did extensive research. They researched it based historically and they essentially must deny miracles or supernatural events. In a sense they try to explain away the miracle or supernatural part and say that well it could have been imagined by the author.

I attempt to be non biased. I look at it this way however, without those miracles or supernatural occurences I don't think Jesus would have been who he was or Christianity would have developed and those followers would have believed him. Jesus was a true man who walked the earth and was crucified. After his death men could have added things that did or did not happen.

I am posting this article because you are so interested in the Sun aspects so you may give it a look below.

Jesus as the Sun
throughout History

by D.M. Murdock/Acharya S

Excerpted from the ebook

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/jesussu...
HOTOTO

Cookeville, TN

#2065 Jun 26, 2013
Ooops I had to correct the date on the Geneva Bible
seems it was written around

The very first Bible printed in Scotland was a Geneva Bible, which was first issued in 1579.[5] In fact, the involvement of Knox and Calvin in the creation of the Geneva Bible made it especially appealing in Scotland, where a law was passed in 1579 requiring every household of sufficient means to buy a copy.[6]

The Geneva Bible is one of the most historically significant translations of the Bible into the English language, preceding the King James translation by 51 years.[1] It was the primary Bible of 16th century Protestantism and was the Bible used by William Shakespeare, Oliver Cromwell, John Knox, John Donne, and John Bunyan, author of Pilgrim's Progress.[2] It was one of the Bibles taken to America on the Mayflower, it was used by many English Dissenters, and it was still respected by Oliver Cromwell's soldiers at the time of the English Civil War.[3]

This version of the Holy Bible is significant because, for the very first time, a mechanically printed, mass-produced Bible was made available directly to the general public which came with a variety of scriptural study guides and aids (collectively called an apparatus), which included verse citations which allow the reader to cross-reference one verse with numerous relevant verses in the rest of the Bible, introductions to each book of the Bible which acted to summarize all of the material that each book would cover, maps, tables, woodcut illustrations, indexes, as well as other included features — all of which would eventually lead to the reputation of the Geneva Bible as history's very first study Bible
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2066 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on uh huh. Were not making a cake here.
Water is Liquid, Vapor (steam condensation), Ice (solid)
Still a bad comparison. It still limits "God". You can't have ice, water and vapor without other environmental dynamics and phenomena such as darkness/coldness, sunlight/warmth, etcetera.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2067 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
Zacharias, who has debated with intellectuals on hundreds of college campuses believes that the real reason most people reject God is moral. He writes:
” A man rejects God neither because of intellectual demands nor because of the scarcity of evidence. A man rejects God because of moral resistance that refuses to admit his need for God.”[19]
Nope. Man CREATED the idea of "God" because man is a moral being. They/you got it backwards.

And start posting your own ideas HOTOTO.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2068 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
Maybe he did perform those miracles after all?
Miracles = Magic

Magic = Necromancy

Necromancy = Condemned in Leviticus. Leviticus states to kill any practicioner of these activities.

Of course Jesus was killed.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2069 Jun 26, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>It is foretold what the Messiah would do for a living, and it's not carpentry. The Messiah is supposed to be a merchant and call people.
There is no Messiah. You all will continue to wait for Superman, Wonder Woman or even The Hulk. It won't happen. It's fantasy. It's wishful thinking. Take some responsibility over your own lives for goodness sakes and quit waiting on a savior.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2070 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
The United States is a country. It is made up of many states.
KY, TN, TX, AL
Each state is seperate but a part of the whole. Are you getting this uh huh. They are a part but seperate and subordinate in my view. Each have unique roles.
Great example for me to demonstrate your perversion.

Each state may be a part of the "whole" or the country, however, the country is not the entire whole. Just as Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit do not make up the totality of "God".

The Trinitarian belief isolates three entities and declares them "God". This would be like declaring the United States the whole world.

Thus, your incomplete, manipulated, perverted idea of "God".
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2071 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
And all he had to do to stop it was deny this. But he did not and went to his death in torture and pain. He did that for you uh huh.
Nope, he did it for himself HOTOTO. He had a god-complex like Koresh. He wanted to be worshipped as "God". And he is, by idolaters such as yourself. It worked.
HOTOTO

Cookeville, TN

#2072 Jun 26, 2013
uh huh wrote:
<quoted text>Miracles = Magic
Magic = Necromancy
Necromancy = Condemned in Leviticus. Leviticus states to kill any practicioner of these activities.
Of course Jesus was killed.
I disagree - miracles does not equal magic. Magic is trickery and illusion. Miracle could be a supernatural act of God.

By your definition I guess you might as well kill off half the Bible then. Do you want to start with Moses?
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2073 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
An analogy of the Trinity:
Time is Past , Present, Future
God is God, The Son, The Holy Spirit
uh huh wrote:
And here's the error folks.
"God is God".
Laughable.
If "God" is "God", there is no need for the other entities. "God" wouldn't need to be a "Trinity".
HOTOTO wrote:
The United States is a country. It is made up of many states.
KY, TN, TX, AL
Each state is seperate but a part of the whole. Are you getting this uh huh. They are a part but seperate and subordinate in my view. Each have unique roles.
And you didn't even argue my actual point... that you said "God" is "God".

The dictionary term also equates the Father (alone) with "God"... http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fat... (term 1b).

"For 'God' so loved the world, he gave his only son" also equates the Father (alone) with "God".

Face it HOTOTO, your belief is manipulated beyond repair. It is idolatry. The errors and inconsistencies exhibit this idolatry.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2074 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree - miracles does not equal magic. Magic is trickery and illusion. Miracle could be a supernatural act of God.
By your definition I guess you might as well kill off half the Bible then. Do you want to start with Moses?
Walking on water is not a miracle. It serves no purpose other than exhibition (showing off).

Any "supernatural" act could be viewed as magic, or sorcery, because "supernatural" acts are not natural.

Again, burn the entire Bible for all I care. I am not a Biblical adherent.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2075 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
And all he had to do to stop it was deny this. But he did not and went to his death in torture and pain. He did that for you uh huh.
Aw, poor Jesus.... who, according to you, was only "GOD" IN THE FLESH.

I'm sure the omnipotent, eternal being felt lots of pain.

Laughable.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2076 Jun 26, 2013
jayne wrote:
we can only try our best, to understand it all, and make sense of the universe, but no one yet has managed to fully explain the whole.
I don't believe there will ever be a "full explanation of the whole", as in every single, minute (or incrompehensibly massive) detail.

I think comprehending and communicating just the essence of it is difficult enough.
HOTOTO

Cookeville, TN

#2077 Jun 26, 2013
uh huh wrote:
<quoted text>Great example for me to demonstrate your perversion.
Each state may be a part of the "whole" or the country, however, the country is not the entire whole. Just as Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit do not make up the totality of "God".
The Trinitarian belief isolates three entities and declares them "God". This would be like declaring the United States the whole world.
Thus, your incomplete, manipulated, perverted idea of "God".
I know you can't wrap your pretty little head around it but Sorry.

This is my question for you....

Do you believe God can do just about any darn thing he wanted? Could he who created everything make a giant pink elephant that danced around the universe. Could he make time run backwards? He created everything including the laws of science. Do you not think he could create three images of himself if he wanted. Could he break off a piece of his arm and make a clone of himself. Could he make a whole army of people?

I think he could do anything he wanted which just so happens to include make a trinity or exist as a trinity.

Maybe the trinity is just that Jesus is seperate and is his son and the Holy Spirit is seperate also as a son. Both take orders from God. Could that be possible for God? Genesis says Man and Women joined together in marriage and 2 fleshes become one.

Maybe the trinity is talking about the relationship between the three and not all three meshed together. Would that be plausible uh huh?

That's not what I see as important. Your nit picking again.

What matters is that you must accept Christ as your Saviour, ask forgiveness for your sins and attempt to lead the best moral life possible. And well if not there are going to be some consequences to pay.

He says , no man comes to the father except through me.
HOTOTO

Cookeville, TN

#2078 Jun 26, 2013
uh huh wrote:
<quoted text>Aw, poor Jesus.... who, according to you, was only "GOD" IN THE FLESH.
I'm sure the omnipotent, eternal being felt lots of pain.
Laughable.
Maybe you can go volunteer to be crucified?
Then tell us how much pain you feel?
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2079 Jun 26, 2013
jayne wrote:
sorry, omnidirectional! just looked at my spelling!
No worries. I misspelled incomprehensibly in my last post.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#2080 Jun 26, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you can't wrap your pretty little head around it but Sorry.
This is my question for you....
Do you believe God can do just about any darn thing he wanted? Could he who created everything make a giant pink elephant that danced around the universe. Could he make time run backwards? He created everything including the laws of science. Do you not think he could create three images of himself if he wanted. Could he break off a piece of his arm and make a clone of himself. Could he make a whole army of people?
I think he could do anything he wanted which just so happens to include make a trinity or exist as a trinity.
Maybe the trinity is just that Jesus is seperate and is his son and the Holy Spirit is seperate also as a son. Both take orders from God. Could that be possible for God? Genesis says Man and Women joined together in marriage and 2 fleshes become one.
Maybe the trinity is talking about the relationship between the three and not all three meshed together. Would that be plausible uh huh?
That's not what I see as important. Your nit picking again.
What matters is that you must accept Christ as your Saviour, ask forgiveness for your sins and attempt to lead the best moral life possible. And well if not there are going to be some consequences to pay.
He says , no man comes to the father except through me.
I take joy in ignoring this.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Lancing Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Good citizen Bob 20 min Mad as hell 14
Stupid 25 min Trump card 4
James "Buddy" Wells 2 hr FunSized123 1
How did Jami Massengale 9 hr Karlen 1
Morgan County News Going out of Business 10 hr it is coming. 4
Susan NOT Goodman (Oct '15) 11 hr Laughing at ya 7
Andrea Adams 12 hr Unbelievable 29

Lancing Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Lancing Mortgages