Does The Bible Debase "God?"
HOTOTO

Sunbright, TN

#181 Mar 10, 2013
Excuse me for using the above quotes..but if the words apply you should not mind. Buddha..had some wise teachings but is not my God. That does not mean you can not learn from others. Wisdom can be attained in many ways. Through searching only you will find the truth.

Think about it: Does any God that may be in question have to prove his/her existence through demonstrable actions in our world or in our reality.

He may or may not show Himself as He sees fit.
He does this because He asks faith and trust in Him regardless of proof.

If, every time you were about to do something that He would disapprove of, there was a booming voice coming from the sky, how much faith would be required?

Also what would happen to our free will? You would know God was always watching and would never feel free to do anything which you know He would disapprove of. We would become automatons. God wants our love for Him freely given.

Without faith you can not please God or come to him.
HOTOTO

Sunbright, TN

#182 Mar 10, 2013
silence? in what regard? sitting on your hands during totalitarian takeover?
so it boils down to..... silence is peace? wheres the melody in that? isnt silence death? what does this mean? mother teresa?

American King James Version
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Let go [of your concerns]! Then you will know that I am God. I rule the nations. I rule the earth.
Silence would not be death but transformation, Jesus defeated death.

i agree with this. "my path" is my path. yours is yours. thats why i believe assigning jesus as "exclusive administer of paths" denies the my path/your path concept. it is "his" path. see what i mean?

Our paths may differ but they must lead to his road for salvation.

New International Version (©1984)
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

New Living Translation (©2007)
But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it.

is this in reference to christianity? as in, "get in the right direction, christianity?" buddhism is not christianity.
however i agree with the quote.

Buddha was a wise teacher but not my God nor my Saviour. Notice you can agree with this quote yet you have difficulty accepting the quotes of Jesus?

Why?
uh huh

Cambridge, MA

#183 Mar 10, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
Excuse me for using the above quotes..but if the words apply you should not mind. Buddha..had some wise teachings but is not my God. That does not mean you can not learn from others. Wisdom can be attained in many ways. Through searching only you will find the truth.
no worries. buddha is not my "God" either. good points here.
HOTOTO wrote:
Buddha..had some wise teachings but is not my God.
ok, so why is jesus?
HOTOTO wrote:
Think about it: Does any God that may be in question have to prove his/her existence through demonstrable actions in our world or in our reality.
He may or may not show Himself as He sees fit.
He does this because He asks faith and trust in Him regardless of proof.
If, every time you were about to do something that He would disapprove of, there was a booming voice coming from the sky, how much faith would be required?
first, it would not be a "he" or a "her". "it is", it isnt a gender. in my opinion

and, why is there so much "he" going on? if "he" doesnt need to show "himself", demonstrate "himself" or any of that other business, why does "he" even need to be a "he"?

and isnt this basically an example of blind submission? if "God" isnt demonstrating, or booming and all that other stuff you mentioned, doesnt that still leave a lot of other stuff ignored? see what i mean?
HOTOTO wrote:
Also what would happen to our free will? You would know God was always watching and would never feel free to do anything which you know He would disapprove of. We would become automatons. God wants our love for Him freely given.
Without faith you can not please God or come to him.
but isnt "God" omnipresent?

so just because i may have faith in something else besides the jesus man-figure, i dont have faith?
uh huh

Cambridge, MA

#184 Mar 10, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
Buddha was a wise teacher but not my God nor my Saviour. Notice you can agree with this quote yet you have difficulty accepting the quotes of Jesus?
Why?
i agree with some of jesus' quotes (even though they could be modified), but i do not accept jesus as a savior

on the contrary, you dont see buddha as "God", but you think jesus is?
HOTOTO

Sunbright, TN

#185 Mar 10, 2013
uh huh wrote:
<quoted text>i agree with some of jesus' quotes (even though they could be modified), but i do not accept jesus as a savior
on the contrary, you dont see buddha as "God", but you think jesus is?
I can only prove this in my heart because I know it to be true. No one could prove this to me either, trust me I doubted it myself for a long time.

I had faith that he was, believed in him, asked him to forgive my sins and told him I would live my life for him. It was not enough to say it alone, I had to want it more than my own life.

It was an experience that transformed my soul, a presence unlike anything I have ever known. I could never prove this to you nor anyone else.

I can just tell you my experience. You must have faith, believe and then want this with your entire heart. It not between you and any church or person, it is between you and God.

No one can ever prove to you his existence or truth.. you must experience it. You will never understand this without faith.
uh huh

Cambridge, MA

#186 Mar 10, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
I can only prove this in my heart because I know it to be true. No one could prove this to me either, trust me I doubted it myself for a long time.
but you think and know with your brain.... your heart helps transfer blood
HOTOTO wrote:
I had faith that he was, believed in him, asked him to forgive my sins and told him I would live my life for him. It was not enough to say it alone, I had to want it more than my own life.
this just sounds kind of creepy, no offense intended.
HOTOTO wrote:
No one can ever prove to you his existence or truth.. you must experience it. You will never understand this without faith.
and you are sure this isnt just a self-induced euphoric state of mind because......?
HOTOTO

Sunbright, TN

#187 Mar 10, 2013
uh huh wrote:
<quoted text>but you think and know with your brain.... your heart helps transfer blood
<quoted text>this just sounds kind of creepy, no offense intended.
<quoted text>and you are sure this isnt just a self-induced euphoric state of mind because......?
Heart..ie .excuse me I should have said soul.

I am sure. That presence has never left me. When I call on it in prayer or times of need it comes back to me and I feel it as of new.

You ask a question.. a self induced state of euphoria?

I felt the renewal,the love, the peace, the euphoria, if that's what you would like to call it..and that has never left or deserted me. If I self induced my euphoria then why when I call upon him now would I be able to self induce that state of euphoria (feel his presence) again when I could not do this before my salvation?

You will never be able to understand this if you do not believe.I am not trying to force my beliefs on you. I just told you my experience. The experience forever changed my life and its course.

King James 2000 Bible
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

I know that it is hard to look from the outside in.
You may say it was a self induced euphoria if you want to believe that.
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#188 Mar 10, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
Heart..ie .excuse me I should have said soul.
i dont want to get into a debate concerning souls, so ill leave this alone
HOTOTO wrote:
I am sure. That presence has never left me. When I call on it in prayer or times of need it comes back to me and I feel it as of new.
You ask a question.. a self induced state of euphoria?
I felt the renewal,the love, the peace, the euphoria, if that's what you would like to call it..and that has never left or deserted me. If I self induced my euphoria then why when I call upon him now would I be able to self induce that state of euphoria (feel his presence) again when I could not do this before my salvation?
You will never be able to understand this if you do not believe.I am not trying to force my beliefs on you. I just told you my experience. The experience forever changed my life and its course.
if it works for you, thats good
HOTOTO wrote:
King James 2000 Bible
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
but i thought there was nothing new under the sun, as mechanic_45 pointed out
HOTOTO

Sunbright, TN

#189 Mar 10, 2013
Is knowledge new, or is it gained?

Is love new, or is it gained or developed?
uh huh

Cambridge, MA

#190 Mar 10, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
Is knowledge new, or is it gained?
Is love new, or is it gained or developed?
doesnt matter. these are questions outside of the issue...

the scripture you referenced said:
HOTOTO wrote:
King James 2000 Bible
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a
new creation: old things are passed
away; behold, all things are become new.
in the other thread mechanic_45 referenced scripture from ecclesiastes (old testament) stating nothing under the sun is new. why does jesus basically alter, or go against this, this with the aforementioned statement in the new testament?
HOTOTO

Sunbright, TN

#191 Mar 10, 2013
You pose hypothetical arguments that you already know the answers to.

If you want my opinion,

The verse in ecclesiastes tells us that nothing is here that God did not create or know already. The universe, sun and stars as well as your soul were all created and understood by him. The prophet was telling us not to search for vain things such as discoveries that people think will disprove God. It is not possible and is a waste.

The verse in the New Testament refers to our deeds or choices.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

In the two books you refer to question the authors are talking about two things which do not even relate, what do you say, metaphors, symbolism is part of a language.

Sin was not new under the sun. It was not new that we were given a choice to choose sin or life. Not only in this world but also the one before this one? If I am in sin and turn from sin I am forming a new choice, choosing a differant path but those two paths were already there.

I think you just like to argue and I am starting to feel like a cat chasing my tail.

Tweedly dee..Tweedly doo..ho hum hee!
uh huh

Cambridge, MA

#192 Mar 10, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
You pose hypothetical arguments that you already know the answers to.
none of this is swaying my opinion although i appreciate the discussion.....
HOTOTO wrote:
If you want my opinion,
The verse in ecclesiastes tells us that nothing is here that God did not create or know already. The universe, sun and stars as well as your soul were all created and understood by him.
dont agree with this. something "created" is not eternal
HOTOTO wrote:
The prophet was telling us not to search for vain things such as discoveries that people think will disprove God. It is not possible and is a waste.
The verse in the New Testament refers to our deeds or choices.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
In the two books you refer to question the authors are talking about two things which do not even relate, what do you say, metaphors, symbolism is part of a language.
Sin was not new under the sun. It was not new that we were given a choice to choose sin or life. Not only in this world but also the one before this one? If I am in sin and turn from sin I am forming a new choice, choosing a differant path but those two paths were already there.
yes but you are limiting it to two paths: bad(sin), good(jesus)..... and possibly even more importantly, you are essentially defining jesus AS good. with the reasoning "just take our word for it!"
HOTOTO wrote:
I think you just like to argue and I am starting to feel like a cat chasing my tail.
Tweedly dee..Tweedly doo..ho hum hee!
this is beginning to become comical. dont you have to wake up early in the morning to answer the other posts homework? as i said, my patience/interest in the discussion is declining and i am aware these topics are bogging down the forum.
HOTOTO

Sunbright, TN

#193 Mar 10, 2013
uh huh wrote:
<quoted text>none of this is swaying my opinion although i appreciate the discussion.....
<quoted text>dont agree with this. something "created" is not eternal
<quoted text>yes but you are limiting it to two paths: bad(sin), good(jesus)..... and possibly even more importantly, you are essentially defining jesus AS good. with the reasoning "just take our word for it!"
<quoted text>this is beginning to become comical. dont you have to wake up early in the morning to answer the other posts homework? as i said, my patience/interest in the discussion is declining and i am aware these topics are bogging down the forum.
<quoted text>dont agree with this. something "created" is not eternal

Physics tells us that energy is never lost, and that our brains -- and hence the feeling of life -- operates by electrical energy, and this energy simply can't vanish. The biocentric view of the timeless, spaceless world allows for no true death in any real sense. Immortality resides outside of time altogether. Eastern religions have argued for millennia that birth and death are equally illusory. Since consciousness transcends the body -&#8722; "external" is a distinction of language alone &#8722;- we're left with consciousness as the bedrock of existence. Death has always meant only one thing: an end with no reprieve. If we're just our body, then we must die. But if we're our consciousness, the sense of experience, then we can't die for the simple reason that consciousness is expressed in manifold fashion and is ultimately unconfined.

The relevancy of this argument deals with the theory of creation. How, without a force acting upon something, can it truly begin?, then start it's purpose whatever it is. Beginning. In order for something to start, it must be acted on by force.

So, even if we had the building block of the universe, something would had to have set it in motion to begin.

So, as far as we know the outside force is yet to be defined.

From this information above, this is where I deduce my theory.

A universe at rest stays at rest, unless acted upon by a outside force. Similarity of the universe as it applies to Newton's first law of physics. The longest standing knowledge in this world bases this theory around a figure. God or a higher power.(which has neither been proven or disproved) This God was the force acting upon the universe to begin our existence, as we know it to be. The following information will compare not similarity of mathematical and physics equations, but looking for the deeper purpose of what these strong holds of knowledge pertain to in accordance to life and our inherent purpose of existence.

So, when the body dies, the energy stored with in the body is released and transformed since it is energy (which can neither be created nor destroyed). Part of my explanation for the transformation has to do with the energy changing to a light principled-based form. Once the body transforms the energy to this alternate form, I believe the principle of travel within the realm of 186,000 miles per second squared becomes relevant. Hence, the body transforms from energy to a light based form. Essentially releasing our energy to travel to whatever destination we are meant to travel to.

http://www.captaincynic.com/thread/77380/did-...

So you see the question becomes..where are you travelling to spend your eternity?

Ho hum hee! Off to do my homework. If you get bored, you can always chase your tail!:)
uh huh

Cambridge, MA

#194 Mar 10, 2013
i see you like to copy and paste others ideas........
HOTOTO wrote:
This God was the force acting upon the universe to begin our existence, as we know it to be.
nope, disagree here. "God" is not separate from existence. all the other jargon before this sort of sounds somewhat okay though......
HOTOTO wrote:
Part of my explanation for the transformation has to do with the energy changing to a light principled-based form. Once the body transforms the energy to this alternate form, I believe the principle of travel within the realm of 186,000 miles per second squared becomes relevant. Hence, the body transforms from energy to a light based form. Essentially releasing our energy to travel to whatever destination we are meant to travel to.
nope, dont agree with the light-form thing either.
HOTOTO wrote:
So you see the question becomes..where are you travelling to spend your eternity?
Ho hum hee! Off to do my homework. If you get bored, you can always chase your tail!:)
dont agree with your perception of "eternity" either.

i dont have a tail
HOTOTO

Sunbright, TN

#195 Mar 10, 2013
The way you act sometimes lead me to believe you had a tail.:)

The source is quoted so I'm no steal.

Is it relevant whether he is seperate (outside) of our perception of existence or if he is (inside) part of our perception of existence?

I think the important thing here is where you will spend your eternity? God tells us all about those subjects and how we can make sure to spend eternity in a good place in a letter he wrote to us called the Bible.

Who's fault is it if someone takes the wrong route despite all of God's road signs and flaggers (people sending them warnings)?

N by the way, you don't have to agree with me! Isn't that beautiful!
uh huh

Cambridge, MA

#196 Mar 10, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
The way you act sometimes lead me to believe you had a tail.:)
well i do have a tailbone
HOTOTO wrote:
The source is quoted so I'm no steal.
not saying you stole, you gave the reference, but its not like you formulated the ideas with hours of contemplation
HOTOTO wrote:
Is it relevant whether he is seperate (outside) of our perception of existence or if he is (inside) part of our perception of existence?
i believe so. if you separate "God" from the individual, or existence, you are removing "God" from the picture; it distances something omnipresent.
anyway, from this aspect there is no inner or outside, it permeates all; it is all. and none
HOTOTO wrote:
I think the important thing here is where you will spend your eternity? God tells us all about those subjects and how we can make sure to spend eternity in a good place in a letter he wrote to us called the Bible.
our ideas of eternity differ
HOTOTO wrote:
Who's fault is it if someone takes the wrong route despite all of God's road signs and flaggers (people sending them warnings)?
N by the way, you don't have to agree with me! Isn't that beautiful!
which road sign should i follow? christian? muslim buddhist? none? all?

and i agree with the last part
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

#197 Mar 10, 2013
HOTOTO wrote:
<quoted text>
You choose to believe or not. Nobody forces you to buy it? You ask the question but then you reject the answer. If you don't want to know an opinion then why ask for one?
I did not give you my answer but merely pointed you to what Jesus said.
Im not sure what you mean by calling me homework? Are you calling me him? I like to do homework. I learn something more each time.
Some think they are so smart they don't have to do any homework..all knowledge they think was given to them. I'm pretty sure you do a lot of homework also, you just are unwilling to clearly see the answer that glares so evidently before you.
Jeremiah 29:12-14
English Standard Version (ESV)
12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. 13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Uh huh thinks you and I are the same person.

I've pointed out that he and Mechanic_45 have some similarities and then, seeing how much that upset him and figuring there must be a reason, accused him of being Mechanic_45.

This conversation, and others, are months old, but he has not progressed beyond where he started back then. He avoids answering direct questions, but demands "straight" answers to his. In short, he's throwing a tantrum. Under Wartburg Topix there's a discussion about the Waco Massacre, give that a read. I think you'll quickly see exactly what I mean.

Oh, side note. If you quote from outside the Bible, cite your sources. Inside the Bible, I'll ask if I need help finding what you're talking about.:-)
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

#198 Mar 12, 2013
I posted the following in another thread in response to concerns expressed about the government treating us as though it owns us.

----------

There are reasons for them to think the way they do, to think that they own us. For those with the wisdom to research and find the truth, what follows may be illuminating.

Most people think there is only one kind of ownership, but in reality there are two.

Allodial ownership is absolute ownership owing no fees, duties or taxes after purchase. The idea is that if you really own it, it belongs to you completely and no one else has any attachments to it, nor can they attach it without your permission.

Feudal ownership is essentially paying the allodial owner for the ongoing privilege {which is termed a right but may be revoked at any time by the allodial owner} of treating the property as if it were owned. This is the ownership allowed to the common people, so it can be asserted that the USA is a fiefdom under feudal Lords we don't see, that we pay periodically to maintain our privilege of calling the stuff we have "ours". This is the "ownership" that allows for property taxes, license fees, imminent domain and law enforcement confiscation of our land and homes, etc.

When you understand the difference between these two, it is easy to see why "they" think they own us. They do. We, the people, have abdicated so much more than we realize, but sadly we no longer have the inner strength to face up to what we've been handed and take back what's been taken from us. It is so much easier to assume the fantasy we perceive is real. Within this illusion is the role of religion; put simply religion assures and sedates its followers, while inciting fear those willing to stand against the illusion {call this mind control, or social engineering}.

How much of the picture you can see is entirely up to you. Funny thing is, when you do see the "big picture", the verse that tells us that in the time of the end God will send upon us a strong delusion takes on all new dimensions.
uh huh

Cambridge, MA

#199 Mar 17, 2013
Done my homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh huh thinks you and I are the same person.
I've pointed out that he and Mechanic_45 have some similarities and then, seeing how much that upset him and figuring there must be a reason, accused him of being Mechanic_45.
incorrect.

you twist words and ideas to your advantage.

from the beginning you accused me of being mechanic_45...... february 27 ( www.topix.com/forum/city/wartburg-tn/TP7SE61A... )- post 120

this did not upset me, as i simply said 'no'( www.topix.com/forum/city/wartburg-tn/TP7SE61A... )- post 121

.......then, you accused me, again, of being mechanic_45.... march 10 ( www.topix.com/forum/city/wartburg-tn/T3U219PD... )- post 36

so your statement was totally incorrect.
Done my homework wrote:
This conversation, and others, are months old, but he has not progressed beyond where he started back then. He avoids answering direct questions, but demands "straight" answers to his. In short, he's throwing a tantrum. Under Wartburg Topix there's a discussion about the Waco Massacre, give that a read. I think you'll quickly see exactly what I mean.
it "hasnt progressed" because the proposed ideas and arguments have not swayed my opinion, and most have already been considered.

please list all the questions you supposedly previously asked that i did not attempt to directly address.

and i realize the tantrum remark was just intended to cast aside and discredit my previous points.

maybe you are removed from most churches because your pedestal wont fit through the doors?
uh huh

Herndon, VA

#200 Mar 17, 2013
Done my homework wrote:
I posted the following in another thread in response to concerns expressed about the government treating us as though it owns us.
----------
There are reasons for them to think the way they do, to think that they own us. For those with the wisdom to research and find the truth, what follows may be illuminating.
Most people think there is only one kind of ownership, but in reality there are two.
Allodial ownership is absolute ownership owing no fees, duties or taxes after purchase. The idea is that if you really own it, it belongs to you completely and no one else has any attachments to it, nor can they attach it without your permission.
Feudal ownership is essentially paying the allodial owner for the ongoing privilege {which is termed a right but may be revoked at any time by the allodial owner} of treating the property as if it were owned. This is the ownership allowed to the common people, so it can be asserted that the USA is a fiefdom under feudal Lords we don't see, that we pay periodically to maintain our privilege of calling the stuff we have "ours". This is the "ownership" that allows for property taxes, license fees, imminent domain and law enforcement confiscation of our land and homes, etc.
When you understand the difference between these two, it is easy to see why "they" think they own us. They do. We, the people, have abdicated so much more than we realize, but sadly we no longer have the inner strength to face up to what we've been handed and take back what's been taken from us. It is so much easier to assume the fantasy we perceive is real. Within this illusion is the role of religion; put simply religion assures and sedates its followers, while inciting fear those willing to stand against the illusion {call this mind control, or social engineering}.
How much of the picture you can see is entirely up to you. Funny thing is, when you do see the "big picture", the verse that tells us that in the time of the end God will send upon us a strong delusion takes on all new dimensions.
so is this meant to be resolved or what? if the issue is resolved, then what? plus it will be less taxes for public education, roads, public funds, etcetera.

anyway, i think ive said more than enough with these topics. and my opinion hasnt changed. i do appreciate the discussion though. i wish you the best in "heaven"!

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