Smoking ban appears headed for approval

Jan 26, 2009 Full story: Lake Wylie Pilot 32

Any changes to York County's proposed smoking ban appear to have been extinguished Tuesday night.County leaders unanimously passed the second of three votes needed to make the ban permanent, despite pleas from ...

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“SECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE ”

Since: Dec 08

tobacco road

#1 Jan 26, 2009
But of course,its pre-ordained.they wont even let the public argue it in the meeting..........the day of reckoning is comming as you piss off the people.

“SECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE ”

Since: Dec 08

tobacco road

#2 Jan 26, 2009
you will notice both articles have no comments section.........keep descent to a minimum so you can claim everybodys for it.

“SECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE ”

Since: Dec 08

tobacco road

#3 Jan 26, 2009
Scientific Evidence Shows Secondhand Smoke Is No Danger
Written By: Jerome Arnett, Jr., M.D.
Published In: Environment & Climate News
Publication Date: July 1, 2008
Publisher: The Heartland Institute

Exposure to secondhand smoke (SHS) is an unpleasant experience for many nonsmokers, and for decades was considered a nuisance. But the idea that it might actually cause disease in nonsmokers has been around only since the 1970s.

Recent surveys show more than 80 percent of Americans now believe secondhand smoke is harmful to nonsmokers.

Federal Government Reports

A 1972 U.S. surgeon general's report first addressed passive smoking as a possible threat to nonsmokers and called for an anti-smoking movement. The issue was addressed again in surgeon generals' reports in 1979, 1982, and 1984.

A 1986 surgeon general's report concluded involuntary smoking caused lung cancer, but it offered only weak epidemiological evidence to support the claim. In 1989 the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) was charged with further evaluating the evidence for health effects of SHS.

In 1992 EPA published its report, "Respiratory Health Effects of Passive Smoking," claiming SHS is a serious public health problem, that it kills approximately 3,000 nonsmoking Americans each year from lung cancer, and that it is a Group A carcinogen (like benzene, asbestos, and radon).

The report has been used by the tobacco-control movement and government agencies, including public health departments, to justify the imposition of thousands of indoor smoking bans in public places.

Flawed Assumptions

EPA's 1992 conclusions are not supported by reliable scientific evidence. The report has been largely discredited and, in 1998, was legally vacated by a federal judge.

Even so, the EPA report was cited in the surgeon general's 2006 report on SHS, where then-Surgeon General Richard Carmona made the absurd claim that there is no risk-free level of exposure to SHS.

For its 1992 report, EPA arbitrarily chose to equate SHS with mainstream (or firsthand) smoke. One of the agency's stated assumptions was that because there is an association between active smoking and lung cancer, there also must be a similar association between SHS and lung cancer.

But the problem posed by SHS is entirely different from that found with mainstream smoke. A well-recognized toxicological principle states, "The dose makes the poison."

Accordingly, we physicians record direct exposure to cigarette smoke by smokers in the medical record as "pack-years smoked" (packs smoked per day times the number of years smoked). A smoking history of around 10 pack-years alerts the physician to search for cigarette-caused illness. But even those nonsmokers with the greatest exposure to SHS probably inhale the equivalent of only a small fraction (around 0.03) of one cigarette per day, which is equivalent to smoking around 10 cigarettes per year.

Low Statistical Association

Another major problem is that the epidemiological studies on which the EPA report is based are statistical studies that can show only correlation and cannot prove causation.

One statistical method used to compare the rates of a disease in two populations is relative risk (RR). It is the rate of disease found in the exposed population divided by the rate found in the unexposed population. An RR of 1.0 represents zero increased risk. Because confounding and other factors can obscure a weak association, in order even to suggest causation a very strong association must be found, on the order of at least 300 percent to 400 percent, which is an RR of 3.0 to 4.0.

For example, the studies linking direct cigarette smoking with lung cancer found an incidence in smokers of 20 to around 40 times that in nonsmokers, an association of 2000 percent to 4000 percent, or an RR of 20.0 to 40.0.

“SECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE ”

Since: Dec 08

tobacco road

#4 Jan 26, 2009
Scientific Principles Ignored

An even greater problem is the agency's lowering of the confidence interval (CI) used in its report. Epidemiologists calculate confidence intervals to express the likelihood a result could happen just by chance. A CI of 95 percent allows a 5 percent possibility that the results occurred only by chance.

Before its 1992 report, EPA had always used epidemiology's gold standard CI of 95 percent to measure statistical significance. But because the U.S. studies chosen for the report were not statistically significant within a 95 percent CI, for the first time in its history EPA changed the rules and used a 90 percent CI, which doubled the chance of being wrong.

This allowed it to report a statistically significant 19 percent increase of lung cancer cases in the nonsmoking spouses of smokers over those cases found in nonsmoking spouses of nonsmokers. Even though the RR was only 1.19--an amount far short of what is normally required to demonstrate correlation or causality--the agency concluded this was proof SHS increased the risk of U.S. nonsmokers developing lung cancer by 19 percent.

EPA Study Soundly Rejected

In November 1995 after a 20-month study, the Congressional Research Service released a detailed analysis of the EPA report that was highly critical of EPA's methods and conclusions. In 1998, in a devastating 92-page opinion, Federal Judge William Osteen vacated the EPA study, declaring it null and void. He found a culture of arrogance, deception, and cover-up at the agency.

Osteen noted, "First, there is evidence in the record supporting the accusation that EPA 'cherry picked' its data.... In order to confirm its hypothesis, EPA maintained its standard significance level but lowered the confidence interval to 90 percent. This allowed EPA to confirm its hypothesis by finding a relative risk of 1.19, albeit a very weak association.... EPA cannot show a statistically significant association between [SHS] and lung cancer."

In 2003 a definitive paper on SHS and lung cancer mortality was published in the British Medical Journal. It is the largest and most detailed study ever reported. The authors studied more than 35,000 California never-smokers over a 39-year period and found no statistically significant association between exposure to SHS and lung cancer mortality.

Propaganda Trumps Science

The 1992 EPA report is an example of the use of epidemiology to promote belief in an epidemic instead of to investigate one. It has damaged the credibility of EPA and has tainted the fields of epidemiology and public health.

In addition, influential anti-tobacco activists, including prominent academics, have unethically attacked the research of eminent scientists in order to further their ideological and political agendas.

The abuse of scientific integrity and the generation of faulty "scientific" outcomes (through the use of pseudoscience) have led to the deception of the American public on a grand scale and to draconian government overregulation and the squandering of public money.

Millions of dollars have been spent promoting belief in SHS as a killer, and more millions of dollars have been spent by businesses in order to comply with thousands of highly restrictive bans, while personal choice and freedom have been denied to millions of smokers. Finally, and perhaps most tragically, all this has diverted resources away from discovering the true cause(s) of lung cancer in nonsmokers.

Dr. Jerome Arnett Jr.(jerry.arnett@gmail.com) is a pulmonologist who lives in Helvetia, West Virginia.
just candid

AOL

#5 Jan 26, 2009
County by County, City by City State by State new and stronger restrictions on smoking seem to pop up almost every day, wonder why? I'll tell you why.
Most people don't smoke, they don't want to contend with any smoke from anyone else. They don't want to inhale to toxins, poisons or have their clothing smelling like a dirty ashtray after being aroud smokers.

Face it, In todays world smoking in NOT cool, NOT even "kool".
In todays world smoking is known to be a dumb thing to do.
It's known to harm the smoker and people around them. It's known to greatly piss off non-smokers who are forced to deal with dirty chucked cigarette butts littering the ground.
Fires started by stupid ass dumb smokers who chuck butts which are still burning cause millions of dollars in damage per year, kill smokers & non-smokers, some who are little children and babys.

Those are just some of the many reasons we now have and will get more restrictions on smoking.

Thank You for your time, have a great Smoke Free day.

“Fredneck County Md”

Since: Feb 08

Small Town

#6 Jan 26, 2009
All of this "hyperbolic hysteria" was started by BIG PHARMA in a crude attempt to discredit anyone opposed to their lies and deceit.
True, all anti-smokers have gone overboard and not used the best methods,(there is no good excuse, truth is stronger) what they have done is to spread and condone the lies, fraud and criminal actions of Big Pharmaceutical.
The CEO s, CFO s and other top management of B.P. are all criminals, and should be tried in a legal court of law for heinous crimes against mankind. After the trial they should be dealt with in the same way which society has dealt with other mass killers in the past.
The Sociopaths who support this hyperbolic hysteria deserve no better a fate than those they follow.

“SECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE ”

Since: Dec 08

tobacco road

#7 Jan 26, 2009
AL CAPONE IS ALIVE AND WELL,he will fill the void and smoke easies will be everywhere and bootleg smokes.........SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL BOOTLEGGER.

“Non smoking freedom loving vet”

Since: Apr 08

Chicago

#8 Jan 26, 2009
Finally, the money behind all these bans is drying up. The ban lobbyists will now have to join the many people their bans have put out of work.
www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/...
just candid

AOL

#9 Jan 26, 2009
Happy Contented Soul wrote:
All of this "hyperbolic hysteria" was started by BIG PHARMA in a crude attempt to discredit anyone opposed to their lies and deceit.
True, all anti-smokers have gone overboard and not used the best methods,(there is no good excuse, truth is stronger) what they have done is to spread and condone the lies, fraud and criminal actions of Big Pharmaceutical.
The CEO s, CFO s and other top management of B.P. are all criminals, and should be tried in a legal court of law for heinous crimes against mankind. After the trial they should be dealt with in the same way which society has dealt with other mass killers in the past.
The Sociopaths who support this hyperbolic hysteria deserve no better a fate than those they follow.
Do you really feel the need to spam that same drivel on all the threads 'HCS', to even spam it several times on the same thread?
You Hard Core Smokers act more desperate every day.
Your Tobacco TOADYS world is closing in around you. It's like the cloud of dirty tar laden tobacco smoke which engulfes you. That dark cloud of poison which also engulfes all and everything around you.
You Hard Core Smokers stink, are offensive and acting stupid. You know it's true. Trouble is most of you are to sick in the body and head to help yourself.

Good luck, GOD bless and good by.
Freedom

United States

#10 Jan 26, 2009
just candid wrote:
County by County, City by City State by State new and stronger restrictions on smoking seem to pop up almost every day, wonder why?
You clearly have your socialistic blinders on as the explanation is really quite obvious.

Last I checked all of our rights including those of the non-smokers were going up in flames. Smoking bans are simply another example.

Tell us Candid...do they have insurance "checkpoints" in your area yet where all are pulled over for nothing other than suspicion...and their papers are demanded? SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS. Get used to the sound of that Candid.

Tell us...when like minded individuals lose the right to gather together indoors on private property to enjoy a LEGAL lifestyle of choice...what loss of rights would you quote?

If your kind can now do this to one LEGAL lifestyle of choice...what now protects others who may fall into your self righteous moral busybody cross hairs?

First they came for the smokers...

“Fredneck County Md”

Since: Feb 08

Small Town

#11 Jan 26, 2009
just candid wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really feel the need to spam that same drivel on all the threads 'HCS', to even spam it several times on the same thread?
You Hard Core Smokers act more desperate every day.
Your Tobacco TOADYS world is closing in around you. It's like the cloud of dirty tar laden tobacco smoke which engulfes you. That dark cloud of poison which also engulfes all and everything around you.
You Hard Core Smokers stink, are offensive and acting stupid. You know it's true. Trouble is most of you are to sick in the body and head to help yourself.
Good luck, GOD bless and good by.
Just candid is..... http://www.topix.com/forum/health/smoking/T92...
Smoke Outside Please

Dallas, TX

#12 Jan 26, 2009
Freedom wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell us...when like minded individuals lose the right to gather together indoors on private property to enjoy a LEGAL lifestyle of choice...what loss of rights would you quote?
If your kind can now do this to one LEGAL lifestyle of choice...what now protects others who may fall into your self righteous moral busybody cross hairs?
First they came for the smokers...
You can still "GATHER" all you want. That "Right" has not been taken away. The choice to smoke and harm others with your second hand smoke has been taken away and rightly so. I don't see that as a right but as public nuisance and major health hazard.
With your evolution progression we should still be using Lead Paint, Asbestos, DDT, and Mercury in our everyday life. I'm glad the political leaders that matter and make the decisions don't listen to you anymore. All they hear from you is Blah, Blah, Blah, Whine, Whine Whine.

Smoke all you want but outside away from people and expect people to shake their heads in disgust at you. Sorry but smoking is just socially unacceptable in 2009.

“Fredneck County Md”

Since: Feb 08

Small Town

#13 Jan 26, 2009
Anti-smokers are like Stinkies.... rude, crude, lewd, socially unacceptable and not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you cut one.
Freedom

Niles, MI

#14 Jan 26, 2009
Smoke Outside Please wrote:
<quoted text>
You can still "GATHER" all you want. That "Right" has not been taken away. The choice to smoke and harm others with your second hand smoke has been taken away and rightly so. I don't see that as a right but as public nuisance and major health hazard.
With your evolution progression we should still be using Lead Paint, Asbestos, DDT, and Mercury in our everyday life. I'm glad the political leaders that matter and make the decisions don't listen to you anymore. All they hear from you is Blah, Blah, Blah, Whine, Whine Whine.
Smoke all you want but outside away from people and expect people to shake their heads in disgust at you. Sorry but smoking is just socially unacceptable in 2009.
So...in your self righteous socialistic nightmare of a world...like minded individuals losing the right to gather together indoors on private property have lost no rights at all eh? I take it the basic human right to shelter is not a right in your twisted world... So sad....so frightening.

Would you be saying the same thing if some self righteous moral busybody decided to do this to you?

Now that your kind has set the precedents...what protects your LEGAL lifestyle choices if one of your comrades turns their sights on you? What a blind path you have chosen.

You make a good little socialistic demonizer...but you sure make a lousy patriot.
Smoke Outside Please

Lake Mary, FL

#15 Jan 26, 2009
Freedom wrote:
<quoted text>
So...in your self righteous socialistic nightmare of a world...like minded individuals losing the right to gather together indoors on private property have lost no rights at all eh? I take it the basic human right to shelter is not a right in your twisted world... So sad....so frightening.
Would you be saying the same thing if some self righteous moral busybody decided to do this to you?
Now that your kind has set the precedents...what protects your LEGAL lifestyle choices if one of your comrades turns their sights on you? What a blind path you have chosen.
You make a good little socialistic demonizer...but you sure make a lousy patriot.
Look you F'n pathetic weirdo, I served in the military for 22 years don't f'n call me a lousy patriot !!!!A-Hole!!!

AGAIN, YOU CAN STILL GATHER ALL THE F YOU WANT. WHERE DID I STATE YOU LOSE THE RIGHT TO GATHER???
All you lose is the right to harm others with your harmful second hand smoke and that is not a bad thing you pathetic soul.

“~ Reality IS Perception ~”

Since: Aug 07

Rockaway!

#16 Jan 26, 2009
Smoke Outside Please wrote:
<quoted text>
Look you F'n pathetic weirdo, I served in the military for 22 years don't f'n call me a lousy patriot !!!!A-Hole!!!
AGAIN, YOU CAN STILL GATHER ALL THE F YOU WANT. WHERE DID I STATE YOU LOSE THE RIGHT TO GATHER???
All you lose is the right to harm others with your harmful second hand smoke and that is not a bad thing you pathetic soul.
Even though people are on opposite sides of this issue, I appreciate your service to your country.

I just wanted to take the time to say: Thank you.

OK,,,,gloves back on.... Just kidding ;-)

“Fredneck County Md”

Since: Feb 08

Small Town

#17 Jan 26, 2009
BleuJei wrote:
<quoted text>
Even though people are on opposite sides of this issue, I appreciate your service to your country.
I just wanted to take the time to say: Thank you.
OK,,,,gloves back on.... Just kidding ;-)
Hint... Brig time doesn't count!

“SECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE ”

Since: Dec 08

tobacco road

#18 Jan 26, 2009
generalsn1234567 wrote:
Finally, the money behind all these bans is drying up. The ban lobbyists will now have to join the many people their bans have put out of work.
www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/...
Just saw phizers CEO the guys a born again green nazi.........He just spent 68 billion bucks for a worthless bio-tech comapny....and they dont even have enuf to pay for it,they are hoping that next year they can get a bank to finance it all.Phizers lipitor brand loses its patent next year phizers big money maker that keeps them alive........I suspect phizer will be bankrupt next year,after they just laid off 8000 people.

“SECOND HAND SMOKE IS A JOKE ”

Since: Dec 08

tobacco road

#19 Jan 26, 2009
Smoke Outside Please wrote:
<quoted text>
Look you F'n pathetic weirdo, I served in the military for 22 years don't f'n call me a lousy patriot !!!!A-Hole!!!
AGAIN, YOU CAN STILL GATHER ALL THE F YOU WANT. WHERE DID I STATE YOU LOSE THE RIGHT TO GATHER???
All you lose is the right to harm others with your harmful second hand smoke and that is not a bad thing you pathetic soul.
you dumb fack, second hand smoke doesnt harm anyone.........just like global whining scare mongers........if you served where and when,unit mos rating..........come on factard
I served too and retired people like you dont exist in the military,they would have been killed.

“~ Reality IS Perception ~”

Since: Aug 07

Rockaway!

#20 Jan 26, 2009
Happy Contented Soul wrote:
<quoted text>
Hint... Brig time doesn't count!
Me thinks SF hates it when someone (a smoker) is nice to him. It's OK..... ;-)

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