Alarmed over golf carts

Ten days ago, Harriet and Max Bass were startled out of bed at 4 a.m. by their 2-month-old carbon monoxide alarm.

[Tim]

This article is sceince Bulls&(t..
Same goes for the gullible firefighters..

The real problem is that charging batteries releases Hydrogen gas via electrolysis, and that CO detectors are sensitive to that Hydrogen gas (along with several others) at low concentrations (200~400ppm).

H2 at concentrations up to 30000ppm is non toxic and not a health hazard.. At 4%(40000ppm) concentration H2 in air it becomes an explosion harzard.

It should be noted, that certain strains of bacteria inside human body give off H2 gas when they digest food. And the test for Lactose intolerance is determined by how much H2 is exhaled over a period of time after consuming 50g of lactose..

20 – 40 ppm mild intolerance
40 – 80 ppm moderate intolerance
above 80 ppm severe intolerance

http://www.breathh2.com/lactose.asp

Note: H2-He2-O2 gas mixtures have been tested as a breathing gas for extreme deep diving.

Nomimal operation for a CO detector is an alarm within 90 minutes if CO gas concentration reaches 100ppm, 35 minutes if it reaches 200ppm.

However standard CO dector designs often makes it sensitive to H2 gas at around 200 to 400ppm..

[Wilt]

Where do you get your facts?

[concerned one]

Here we go again (more) another tragic incident involving AUTO VEHICLES.

Flying cars would solve all our problems.

[concerned one]

I speak only JIVE and JIBBER JABBER

[Tim]

Wilt wrote:

Where do you get your facts?

These types of chemistry problems are well known and expected.

Along with the link I supplied,(about lactose intolerance). You can google the rest.
http://www.raesystems.com/~raedocs/App_Tech_N...

see
"CO in Food Warehouse"

"The warehouse personal pointed out that we were making the CO
measurement in an office located within the battery charging room".

"Lead-acid batteries generate hydrogen gas while charging. Using a
cross-sensitivity table supplied by the CO sensor manufacturer showed
that 80ppm on the CO sensor means that there was approximately 200ppm
of hydrogen present, which is well below its lower explosive limit
(LEL) of 4%(40,000ppm)."

[SIXFOOTER sez]

Hmmm, I had to read the article twice since I don't remember a whole lot about High School chemistry. I do remember this much tho: Lead Acid batteries contain Lead (Pb) and they contain Sulphuric Acid(H2SO4)
The gas they release is Hydrogen (H2)
I worked in a battery shop in the Air Force so I was pretty familiar with this part.
Didn't see anything in the artical telling people that the monoxide detectors are not detecting monoxide, but Hydrogen.
Now all the golf cart crowd thinks their cart puts out monoxide, and it must be true because it was in the newspaper.
All that said, basic safety says Proper ventilisation is required for charging batteries, it even says so on the safety sticker on the cart AND on the charger AND on the battery

[Boca]

Good article, I'm sure everyone has this problem of their golf cart in their garage emitting co2. When I get dizzy from the fumes of my golf cart in the garage, I just walk out my back door and go down to my dock on the intercoastal and get some fresh air on my 36' formula.

[Tiger Woods]

Boca wrote:

Good article, I'm sure everyone has this problem of their golf cart in their garage emitting co2. When I get dizzy from the fumes of my golf cart in the garage, I just walk out my back door and go down to my dock on the intercoastal and get some fresh air on my 36' formula.

I suck the fumes right from the golf cart.its cheaper than weed!

[Bob Dwyer]

The batteries in those systems are not emitting carbon monoxide when charging. The sensors in the larms used in the complex and by the fire department are cross sensitive to hydrogen. It should be an eye opener that the fire department does not recognize nor know about the types of sensors in these Co alarms and test instruments they use. CO comes from combustion. The inexpensive alarms are cross sensitive to other gases and are not hydrogen compensated.
Bob Dwyer, Director of Training
COSA (Carbon Monoxide Safety Association)
[e-mail] [e-mail]
www.cosafety.org

[Lori]

Bob Dwyer wrote:

The batteries in those systems are not emitting carbon monoxide when charging. The sensors in the larms used in the complex and by the fire department are cross sensitive to hydrogen. It should be an eye opener that the fire department does not recognize nor know about the types of sensors in these Co alarms and test instruments they use. CO comes from combustion. The inexpensive alarms are cross sensitive to other gases and are not hydrogen compensated.
Bob Dwyer, Director of Training
COSA (Carbon Monoxide Safety Association)
[e-mail] [e-mail]
www.cosafety.org

The reason the fire fighters don't know this simple fact is because they are too busy shopping at Publix and talking to their investment banker about where to invest their big fat pensions that are bankrupting the state of florida. Once again, the highest paid city employess are in the spotlight for stupidity, and the sun sentinel publishes a factless, inaccurate article that will cause panic throughout the golf cart owning public.

[Ignignokt]

Tim wrote:

<quoted text>
These types of chemistry problems are well known and expected.
Along with the link I supplied,(about lactose intolerance). You can google the rest.
http://www.raesystems.com/~raedocs/App_Tech_N...
see
"CO in Food Warehouse"
"The warehouse personal pointed out that we were making the CO
measurement in an office located within the battery charging room".
"Lead-acid batteries generate hydrogen gas while charging. Using a
cross-sensitivity table supplied by the CO sensor manufacturer showed
that 80ppm on the CO sensor means that there was approximately 200ppm
of hydrogen present, which is well below its lower explosive limit
(LEL) of 4%(40,000ppm)."

I too wondered how a battery could emit CO . I was unaware that CO detectors were sensitive to hydrogen .

[Ignignokt]

Boca wrote:

Good article, I'm sure everyone has this problem of their golf cart in their garage emitting co2. When I get dizzy from the fumes of my golf cart in the garage, I just walk out my back door and go down to my dock on the intercoastal and get some fresh air on my 36' formula.

You emit a lot of CO2 ...