There has been a lot of talk on Military and Law Enforcement Forums about pre-MSA Paraclete Gear. Yes, there is a big difference in quality and craftsmanship on MSA Paraclete products compared to the original Paraclete Armor products. This is especially true regarding the products MSA Paraclete has made in the past 2.5 years. Paraclete Armor use to have 350 sewers in the plant and the sewers were broken down into sections or cells so they always built the same type of products; thus giving the sewers a lot of experience on their particular type of pouches or vests. Well since MSA has taken over Paraclete over 320 people have been released from the factory to include all the original management that made the company successful. Some of the management left after they verified how ignorant MSA was regarding tactical gear and how to build or sell the products. Here is an example of what MSA has done to increase their profits while screwing over military soldiers, law enforcement officers, and their own employees. There most senior engineer was over 70 and had made numerous mistakes regarding design so MSA asked him to retire. The MSA manufacturing manager they hired was also let go for not being competent due to numerous decisions that further reduced the quality of the product. So what happens is these two people started a sewing company in Smithfield, NC and now MSA sub contracts their sewing to the same two people they let go for making dumb decisions regarding design, safety, and quality. The department of homeland security ICE has had nothing but problems from MSA regarding sewing and sizing, and imagine who makes the products. You’re correct; the guys they asked to leave Paraclete. MSA sells ballistic plates but they do not make the products. They act like they are MSA plates but in fact they come from Ceradyne and other plate manufactures. So stop buying your plate from a third party. They mark the plates up 30 to 50 percent. That is why a lot of people are looking for pre-MSA products. A lot of the Special Forces units on Fort Bragg use to buy direct from the factory when it was Paraclete Armor and not MSA. The soldiers would be given a tour of the facility and shown how the products were made and sometimes given free stuff. Soldiers would bring in equipment they needed a carrier for and could get it made in two to three weeks and this would be a custom product but they were never charged a design fee even if they only needed 1 item. MSA has totally messed up Paraclete and has destroyed a company that could have run the market for a long time. DO NOT BUY FROM MSA PARACLETE!