The demand is there for locally grown food - Hawaii Editorials

The thought that Hawaii could produce enough food to feed its human inhabitants comes up from time to time. Full Story
BAD DOG

AOL

#1 Jan 3, 2010
Hawaii need to be independant on it self. Grow staples, raise staples and produce staples. This way, with locally grown and raised products will lower cost. Grociers won't have a reason to say, "because it comes over water." Hawaii government should take a look at other states that produce foods that feed the country and follow their example of how it's done. Then fund those that are into farming to get them started and not worry about putting it in their pockets. Maybe then, Hawaii will be independent on it self.
onenutcase

Pearl City, HI

#2 Jan 3, 2010
the "Southern Californa" development model will take us near disaster

in common with so cal is the growing overload of people taking govt services and not contributing

and we have a tax and fee structure that will soon grow to so cal levels

but unlike so cal, we lack proximity to cheap agriculture and we have no diversity in our economy

there is a high risk that the path we are on, is one of deterioration of our quality of life --- agriculture is but one component of this

we would have to be a bunch of nutcases to turn west oahu into Orange County, without asking whether there is sufficient economic engine to sustain life under that model

of course, if you question the machine, they will start throwing the nutcase bombs at you --- but they should know that in 2010, we won't be crawling into any holes --- there is too much at stake to run from nutcase propaganda and hate
Kimo Da Cable Guy

AOL

#3 Jan 3, 2010
Congratulations to Cynthia Oi on starting the new year with another of her wacky editorials. The claim that pre-Western contact Hawaii supported a population of one million has been around for awhile. It is a politically motivated theory designed to show that if there were many more Hawaiians to begin with then Europeans must therefore have caused the deaths of greater numbers of Hawaiians than previously thought. That makes Europeans look even more evil - which is the whole point of the "research." The other goal is to make Stone Age Hawaiians look like a superior culture. That's meant to keep you from considering other aspects of their culture like slavery, human sacrifice, gender discrimination, incest and polygamy.

I can think of a couple of reasons to doubt the study right off the top of my head. First, if pre-contact Hawaiians were really so well-fed and happy then why was there near constant warfare between different groups? Warfare is usually about competition for scarce resources so if there was plenty of food to go around then why all the fighting? Second, if local waters are now all fished out even though there are plenty of other things to eat then how did the Hawaiians support a population of one million when there weren't many other protein options besides fish? There were only so many fishponds and those weren't particularly big. Can the researchers show other places around the world where Stone Age agriculture supported a population density of the size they are claiming? If not then I doubt Hawaiians were magically able to achieve something nobody else could.

As for growing all our own food now, Cynthia hasn't really thought this one out. Native Hawaiians had a very limited diet compared to what modern Americans are used to. There's no way Cynthia or most other people would settle for eating the same thing every day. In order to produce locally the variety of food we now eat, a lot of supplies and equipment would have to be imported from the mainland. That's a very expensive undertaking. Who is going to work growing all those crops? Farming is not easy work - many of Hawaii's current agricultural workers are brought in from elsewhere. How does Cynthia plan to create the workforce necessary to grow all our own food? Yes, I agree it would be nice to grow more food locally. But I think Cynthia is smoking too much of Hawaii's leading agricultural product if she thinks Hawaii can produce all the food we need.
Poi

San Leandro, CA

#4 Jan 3, 2010
Kimo Da Cable Guy wrote:
ow does Cynthia plan to create the workforce necessary to grow all our own food?
She doesn't. The left always dreams pleasant thoughts but never has any concrete answers and never is willing to risk their own wealth to create what they are dreaming and sometimes demanding that the tax payers fund.

The Plantation Asian state government has UN-zoned agriculture lands in Hawaii for the past 50 years. They continue to do so.
Fisherman

Lanai City, HI

#5 Jan 3, 2010
Supporting large numbers of people with food will take more water than is available now. In Kona, Kahala, Kihei, Lahaina, on Lanai, Molokai, Kaho'olawe, Oahu and Kauai there are dry stream beds with 'river rocks'. The weather patterns combined with trees/plants provided a lot more water in the past. Cutting down all the sandalwood trees and forests has made it very difficult, if not impossible (without desalination plants) to provide food as they could in the past.
pigfarmer

Pearl City, HI

#6 Jan 3, 2010
Fisherman wrote:
Supporting large numbers of people with food will take more water than is available now. In Kona, Kahala, Kihei, Lahaina, on Lanai, Molokai, Kaho'olawe, Oahu and Kauai there are dry stream beds with 'river rocks'. The weather patterns combined with trees/plants provided a lot more water in the past. Cutting down all the sandalwood trees and forests has made it very difficult, if not impossible (without desalination plants) to provide food as they could in the past.
but there is no shortage of water for golf courses and new homes --- explain that
Poi

San Leandro, CA

#7 Jan 3, 2010
pigfarmer wrote:
<quoted text>
but there is no shortage of water for golf courses and new homes --- explain that
Easy.

The plantation Asian Democrats have always got more money via development than from farmers.

Upzoning ag land equals campaign contributions not to mention profits from land huis.

Read Land and Power in Hawaii.
label GMO Produce

Honolulu, HI

#8 Jan 3, 2010
Hawaii can start by using existing AG land to grow food Hawaii can eat. Not GMO seeds grown in Waialua, Kunia and Ewa the GMO scientist do not even eat. These Chemical Corporations are using Hawaii AG land as a testing ground for the extended use of thier chemicals in the earths Human Food supply.
OnlyParadise

Kapolei, HI

#9 Jan 3, 2010
Hey cynthia why do they hire you to write these stupid editorial with no basis.

do you just read some letters from people who write to you and say there were more food produced 500 years ago in Hawaii than today?

were there any documentations of the channels of distribution, if there isn't any evidence then there were no food source grown for a population of 1 million people

We had a good alternative to expanding our island ag resources and what did the enviornmental wackos do to the super ferry that was a viable source for our neighbor island ag business? these s t u p i d wackos stopped it.

I can't believe cynthia Oi keep writing these false editorial with no actual facts and expect people to read it and believe this garbage

be a sheep
vote demo C R A P
Pat

Honolulu, HI

#10 Jan 3, 2010
Thanks, Cynthia, another thoughtful column. Reading the mostly ignorant responses, I can see that the limited intelligence and the greed for more profit over sustainability is why this hasn't occured. Go into any supermarket and observe that most of the food is unhealthy processed products. Why any parent buys pop or can juices for their family instead of making their own juice or encouraging the eating of fresh fruits, is something I hope that people will consider.
Local fisherman

Waipahu, HI

#11 Jan 3, 2010
It's the ignorant "no can" crowd that keeps good ideas from going forward.

Cynthia isn't the one who came up with the notion that Hawaii has the ability to sustain a population of one million. Experts who know their stuff do.

The people making rude comments know next to nothing and are merely voicing assumptions based purely on personal or political bias.
Local fisherman

Waipahu, HI

#12 Jan 3, 2010
Kimo Da Cable Guy wrote:
First, if pre-contact Hawaiians were really so well-fed and happy then why was there near constant warfare between different groups? Warfare is usually about competition for scarce resources so if there was plenty of food to go around then why all the fighting? Second, if local waters are now all fished out even though there are plenty of other things to eat then how did the Hawaiians support a population of one million when there weren't many other protein options besides fish? There were only so many fishponds and those weren't particularly big.
Not everyone claims that all Hawaiians were happy. Lots of them weren't but there wasn't much choice. It was comply or die.

Warfare was about taking control some of the most productive lands available: That included Oahu and Kauai.

Local waters are heavily fished because there isn't a strict kapu system like there was before. Break a kapu, and you get taken out.

Much of the pelagics are now being exported. It wasn't that way a couple centuries ago. If it weren't for exporting fish (tons of it every day) there would be more than enough to go around for Hawaii residents.

A lot of the fisheries have been damaged by dredging and runoff. Ala Moana Beach had a coral reef that was completely wiped out by dredging. Magic Island didn't exist. The Reef Runway and the area around Honolulu Harbor (and buildup of Sand Island) also covered more reef. The construction of Hawaii Loa Ridge, the creation of the lagoons at Ko Olina, and other projects dumped tons of silt into littoral waters that killed off huge swaths of reef. No reef means no fish.

And as for fishponds, you have no idea how extensive they were. Hawaii Kai was a huge fishpond system. It's now covered by houses. The entire coastline had fishponds of varying sizes. Wailupe Circle: that was a fishpond. Pearl Harbor was a huge wetland. Most of Kaneohe Bay's fishponds are gone.

And Hawaiians did have other protein sources: domesticated animals including pigs and dogs.

Again, you're making statements with no real knowledge of what it was like. You're looking at a transformed modern Hawaii. Much of what was is now gone. Even scholars are only now discovering remnants of old agricultural lands. It was much more extensive than anyone thought.

It's possible to provide a lot more locally grown food and avoid having to ship a lot of it in from more than 2,500 miles away. Just have to put creative minds to work on finding solutions.

Sitting around whining "it can't be done" will get us nowhere.
Jojo

Keauhou, HI

#13 Jan 3, 2010
This editorial is schzophrenic in that the writer says there is no chance of changing the socio/economic system here in Hawaii, and then waxes on about all the great food grown here.
The editorial fails to consider that the Federal government is approaching bankruptcy and money from Washington will disappear when the Chinese and Saudi Arabians decide that they no longer will accept U.S. IOU's.
In the future, I believe that growing your own food will not be debated by Utopian tree hugger dreamers and perpetual-economic-growth at any environmental costs warriors - home grown food, in the future, will be a necessity.
COOL DVD ON YOUTUBE

Honolulu, HI

#14 Jan 3, 2010
Learn about GMO in Hawaii

SEE:
COOL DVD

Honolulu, HI

#15 Jan 3, 2010
see: "Pinky Presents: Islands at Risk" on you tube.

Learn About GMO in Hawaii
Fisherman

Lanai City, HI

#16 Jan 3, 2010
Local fisherman wrote:
<quoted text>
Not everyone claims that all Hawaiians were happy. Lots of them weren't but there wasn't much choice. It was comply or die.
Warfare was about taking control some of the most productive lands available: That included Oahu and Kauai.
Local waters are heavily fished because there isn't a strict kapu system like there was before. Break a kapu, and you get taken out.
Much of the pelagics are now being exported. It wasn't that way a couple centuries ago. If it weren't for exporting fish (tons of it every day) there would be more than enough to go around for Hawaii residents.
A lot of the fisheries have been damaged by dredging and runoff. Ala Moana Beach had a coral reef that was completely wiped out by dredging. Magic Island didn't exist. The Reef Runway and the area around Honolulu Harbor (and buildup of Sand Island) also covered more reef. The construction of Hawaii Loa Ridge, the creation of the lagoons at Ko Olina, and other projects dumped tons of silt into littoral waters that killed off huge swaths of reef. No reef means no fish.
And as for fishponds, you have no idea how extensive they were. Hawaii Kai was a huge fishpond system. It's now covered by houses. The entire coastline had fishponds of varying sizes. Wailupe Circle: that was a fishpond. Pearl Harbor was a huge wetland. Most of Kaneohe Bay's fishponds are gone.
And Hawaiians did have other protein sources: domesticated animals including pigs and dogs.
Again, you're making statements with no real knowledge of what it was like. You're looking at a transformed modern Hawaii. Much of what was is now gone. Even scholars are only now discovering remnants of old agricultural lands. It was much more extensive than anyone thought.
It's possible to provide a lot more locally grown food and avoid having to ship a lot of it in from more than 2,500 miles away. Just have to put creative minds to work on finding solutions.
Sitting around whining "it can't be done" will get us nowhere.
I think you are right about: "Just have to put creative minds to work on finding solutions."
I was responding to Cythia's implication that if a million Hawaiians could support themselves, a million people here today should be able to- like they did.
It would probably be a good goal to work toward self sufficiency here.
Jojo could end up right too, about not having a choice some day (no fuel for ships or planes would do it).
Kimo Da Cable Guy

AOL

#17 Jan 3, 2010
Can anyone who supports Cynthia Oi name another place where "experts" claim that a Stone Age agricultural society could produce enough food to support modern population levels? Were other Pacific islands supporting population densities comparable to the one million people supposedly living in Hawaii before Europeans arrived? I haven't heard this claim made anywhere else. For example, the native population of North America before Europeans arrived was much smaller than it is now. Why should we think Hawaiians were any more successful in producing food without modern technology?

Based on Oi's history of nutty assertions - she once claimed that the neighbor islands have all the major military bases - readers would be well-advised to exercise a little skepticism when she says things that sound dubious. Maybe she'd like to share with us the study she's relying on for her information. Then we'd have a chance to judge for ourselves whether it makes any sense. Too many of you simply accept what Oi has to say without question.
Mike Hu

Portland, OR

#18 Jan 3, 2010
Prior to the Industrial Revolution, there wasn't one million people concentrated anywhere -- even New York, Tokyo, London.

Supporting a large population requires advance technology -- to remove waste, for one thing -- which modern day Hawaii still hasn't figured out.

The major rationale for everybody to raise their own vegetable patch -- including turning their yards into gardens is that people in Hawaii have lost touch with reality and thus make the most absurd BS statements thinking they'll never be called to account -- that there was this marvelous mythical Hawaii culture thriving in the Pacific -- that has left no traces of any enduring infrastructure -- like the aqueducts of Rome, pyramids of the Aztecs, etc.

The soil in Hawaii is barren in most of the Islands because people don't know how to compost and nurture anything -- and the people think the only thing they can do is sign wave their legislators for more money -- as the only thing they can do -- which is to manipulate other people's thinking.

Thus, they need the actual experience of producing something tangible instead of BS -- which when they are caught at it, humiliates them in the company of thoughtful people.

I doubt that most people will be able to produce their own food -- but they reconnect with basics, of caring and nurturing something -- instead of relying on their congresspeople to "Give them more money."

Hawaii has no industry or productivity -- which has even become a bad word to the many bureaucrats and union people who insist that there is no such thing as productivity and merit -- and all that their is is the ass-kissing and overconsumption without consequences.

It's a tribal, pre-industrial mentality -- that can't support a large population without breeding rats faster than people and homelessness? What do you do with the problems of crowding? Today there are high rises, which is something different from a million in grass shacks -- with no sewer system.

A productive society is what an education system should be producing -- instead of countless drones who think they should demand something for nothing, and are totally reliant on the productivity elsewhere.

People living in urban areas have also bone back to vegetable gardening as a first step to reconnecting with the basics of life. And that's the most important thing to get out of that cultivation -- that relationship with cause and effect, industry and productivity -- and not just simply, who can eat the most plate lunches and get away with the greatest BS.

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