Why Obama's Health Care won't work

[Marion]

Supply and demand. The system will be overloaded with people wanting to see doctors. The doctors handling the current customer base will have to serve a larger one.

[Redneck]

Marion wrote:

Supply and demand. The system will be overloaded with people wanting to see doctors. The doctors handling the current customer base will have to serve a larger one.

Marion, that is correct but the part that scares the heck out of me is that some government bureaucrat sitting in Washington will be looking over my doctors shoulder and telling him what he can prescribe and cannot prescribe.

Check out the wait times in Canada and Great Britian. They both have single payer systems and the wait times to obtain some procedures turn into death sentences.

[Marion]

Agreed. There are many excellent Civil Servants. But it seems that when they become bureaucrats they are just Prostitutes. And another thing,Will the recipients have to pay anything for this? If it is free it will become welfare.
When I was under the paws, there was some little prick that had his thumb over what I did outside of work. And to make it worse, he exercised that power illegally. But, what could I do?

[Pittsoff]

Redneck, you are right in regards to the wait times. Some needing surgery are put off for years. For example a woman, in Canada, who had a shoulder pain called her doctor, they told her it would be 10 months before they could see her. She went to America and got seen right away. They told her she had tears and needed surgery. She went back and contacted a doctor in Canada, they told her it would be 2 years before she could SEE a doctor for the initiall consult and another 1 1/2 year before surgery. So from when she was hurt....you are looking at almost 4 years before she would have it fixed. She went to America and got it taken care of immediately.
The issue we have is all of those out there that think the government needs and should take care of them. The government owes them. The government will take care of everything for them. Well it doesn't work. Look at all of the other government ran businesses. US Postal Service, AMTRAK, Medicare, Medicaid. All have issues and no money to run. So what makes ANYONE think that the National Health Care will run any better?
It is sad that there are those that want everything handed to them and for "free" and think that they don't have to worry about paying their mortgage or car payment because the "Annointed One" Obama is THEIR President who will take care of them.

If you don't know it already........you are in for a rude awakening.

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!

[Pittsoff]

Oh I forgot in regards to referencing REDNECKS wait times..........if the government doesn't deem it "necessary" or you are too old for an expensive surgery and "you are going to die anyway" they won't pay for it or allow it.

Nice, huh?

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!

[Ray Poreno]

Well, I guess I won't be getting my hip replaced....DAGNAMIT!

[HAA]

Damn ! there goes my boob enlargement.

[Redneck]

Ray Poreno wrote:

Well, I guess I won't be getting my hip replaced....DAGNAMIT!

If you need it replaced better do it now because when the government system is in full control it will be another whole ball game. Before you get the surgery they will look into many factors before deciding whether you can have it or not, such as the type of work you do,(physical or seditary) if retired or not, your age, and general health. Then some person looking at government graphs will make the decision on whether you get the surgery or not.

[CheersForKyle]

HAA wrote:

Damn ! there goes my boob enlargement.

Join the military---you can get it done there and government will pay!!!

[Redneck]

Marion wrote:

Agreed. There are many excellent Civil Servants. But it seems that when they become bureaucrats they are just Prostitutes. And another thing,Will the recipients have to pay anything for this? If it is free it will become welfare.
When I was under the paws, there was some little prick that had his thumb over what I did outside of work. And to make it worse, he exercised that power illegally. But, what could I do?

Marion, don't get me wrong about civil servants. I was one for 16 years and there we many like me worked their butts off and gave 110% but there were also those who thought showing up and clocking in entitled them to a full days pay.

When I say bureaucrat I am talking about the policy makers who will pass down the instructions to the workers that interface with the doctors and patients. These individuals will be handed a set of rules and regulations telling them what would justify granting the doctor permission to prescribe certain treatments and/or surgery.

Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

[CheersForKyle]

Redneck wrote:

<quoted text>
If you need it replaced better do it now because when the government system is in full control it will be another whole ball game. Before you get the surgery they will look into many factors before deciding whether you can have it or not, such as the type of work you do,(physical or seditary) if retired or not, your age, and general health. Then some person looking at government graphs will make the decision on whether you get the surgery or not.

Obama says this new system will be paid partially with cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. The cuts to Medicare could well be a change in qualifications. How old are you? Do you smoke,drink alcohol, etc. Do you have other medical problems that would be life threatening and a hip replacement not be cost effective...This type thinking IS going on in the minds of the Washington Dictators...I understand several states are taking action now to opt out of this system.. If it works there will be a lot of real estate exchanging hands!!!

[Redneck]

CheersForKyle wrote:

<quoted text>
Obama says this new system will be paid partially with cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. The cuts to Medicare could well be a change in qualifications. How old are you? Do you smoke,drink alcohol, etc. Do you have other medical problems that would be life threatening and a hip replacement not be cost effective...This type thinking IS going on in the minds of the Washington Dictators...I understand several states are taking action now to opt out of this system.. If it works there will be a lot of real estate exchanging hands!!!

CheersForKyle, I heard a guy from Canada talking about their healthcare system and here is what they are doing in an effort to cut costs. If an elderly individual in poor health comes in and needs a hip or knee replaced he will be put on the waiting list, however his place on the list is not set in stone because if someone aged 40-50 comes in and needs the same procedure he is given a higher priority and is put on the list ahead of the elderly individual. Using this method they can still say that they are not denying the procedures to anyone while in essence they hope the old guy will pass away before he makes it to the head of the line. They don't consider the terrible pain and discomfort the person waiting is having to suffer. I have heard there are other nations with socialized healthcare that use the same process.

[Marion]

IMO. The guy in the middle wants what is fair to all. They guy on the bottom wants. The guy on the top wants. The guy in the middle pays.

[A Nonny Mouse]

Unfortunately, most of us, including myself, tend to look at this issue from the point of view of someone who has at least reasonable health care. From that vantage point, it is tempting to point out the shortfalls of a system like the one in Canada. Yes, if I had the health care that is universally offered in Canada, I might well have to wait for care; and I would not like it. But we should, just for the sake of thoughtfulness, put ourselves in the shoes of a person who cannot get health care. Many of these people don't just have to wait, they can NEVER get the health care you and I take for granted.

It is so easy to say that we worked for our health coverage and we deserve it; that those who do not have it have not worked for it and do not deserve it. That is not always true. My niece has worked very hard and long hours for years. She has a family but no health insurance. Because she is an independent contractor, she is unable to find coverage that she can afford. I know because I have helped her look. My wife and I have helped when we could, but this is not the answer. We will not always be there or be able.

I am not necessarily in favor of a totally government owned program, but we have to do something. At least our president is trying as have many before him. It is a very difficult problem.

Just remember, in the eyes of someone who has health problems and has no insurance, the problem of some bureaucrat looking over the doctor's shoulder or the fact that we all may have to pay for the system through taxes is not of first importance.

[Marion]

One consideration is quality vs quantity.
I particularly agree with A Nanny Mouse's last Paragraph.

[Marion]

Public Option. Public Option is the means the gov will use to recoup cap n trade.

[Marion]

Redneck wrote:

<quoted text>
Marion, don't get me wrong about civil servants. I was one for 16 years and there we many like me worked their butts off and gave 110% but there were also those who thought showing up and clocking in entitled them to a full days pay.
When I say bureaucrat I am talking about the policy makers who will pass down the instructions to the workers that interface with the doctors and patients. These individuals will be handed a set of rules and regulations telling them what would justify granting the doctor permission to prescribe certain treatments and/or surgery.
Sorry I didn't make that clear in my original post.

I understand there is a push to hire more mid level managers because the bureaucracy is getting so big they need interfaces or people just to deal with the bureaucracy. That came from a SES candidate.

[anna]

Redneck wrote:

<quoted text>
CheersForKyle, I heard a guy from Canada talking about their healthcare system and here is what they are doing in an effort to cut costs. If an elderly individual in poor health comes in and needs a hip or knee replaced he will be put on the waiting list, however his place on the list is not set in stone because if someone aged 40-50 comes in and needs the same procedure he is given a higher priority and is put on the list ahead of the elderly individual. Using this method they can still say that they are not denying the procedures to anyone while in essence they hope the old guy will pass away before he makes it to the head of the line. They don't consider the terrible pain and discomfort the person waiting is having to suffer. I have heard there are other nations with socialized healthcare that use the same process.

Well the heck are you getting this stuff??? Hilarious...and complete lies. You must be OD-ing on Beck propaganda.

[CheersForKyle]

anna wrote:

<quoted text>
Well the heck are you getting this stuff??? Hilarious...and complete lies. You must be OD-ing on Beck propaganda.

I would suggest you lay off the kool-ade and drink a strong pot of coffee to wake up. I visited friends in Canada this spring and heard stories about their personal experiences with this system. This came to my ears first hand. Waiting days for serious surgery, showing up at the hospital and then being sent home to again wait as someone else bumped them, etc. A Lottery, where names are drawn periodically, to get a primary care physician, and the list goes on. You may not believe this now, but if Obama Care is approved, sadly you will.

[Marion]

anna wrote:

<quoted text>
Well the heck are you getting this stuff??? Hilarious...and complete lies. You must be OD-ing on Beck propaganda.

Tell us the truth.