King Officials Vote to Take Down Chri...

King Officials Vote to Take Down Christian Flag

There are 50 comments on the Fox 8 WGHP story from Sep 16, 2010, titled King Officials Vote to Take Down Christian Flag. In it, Fox 8 WGHP reports that:

A Christian flag flying at the Veterans Memorial at Central Park has been removed following a city council vote on Wednesday.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Fox 8 WGHP.

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Jay Vincent

Scarborough, Canada

#1 Oct 20, 2010
Originally blogged at:
http://absentcapacity.wordpress.com/2010/10/2...

**For full article, see above link.**

I was in Christianity at least 35 years of my life, and heavily and devotedly so for much of that 35 years, memorizing scripture, doctrine, and arguments so well that debates were a joyful thing for me at one point, while now, I dispatch the attacks quickly and efficiently to save time.
It all started when someone observed, and then complained to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) about a Christian flag being flown at a city park and included veteran's memorial.
Why I give a damn about this issue is beyond me, but I see several perspective points of the issue. From the Viet Nam veteran who goes on youtube and acts like a teen on crystal meth to the churches who act as if the apocalypse is beginning, the Christian flag issue in King, North Carolina is weirdly as humorous as watching drunken greased (naked) wrestling.
The church community, on the other hand, is shown on the evening news telling the city council that they will raise money to fight the ACLU in any subsequent lawsuit battle. Then the church community insists on their government keeping the flag up and engaging in a long court battle with the ACLU (on behalf of the complainant).
At the crux of this entire dog and pony exhibition is the separation of church and state. While the complainant surely has the valid right to ask for this, the hypocritical church, on the other hand, most assuredly does not.
The churches, upon their inception, usually, if not always, incorporate as state entities, and then apply for 501(c)(3) status, and become full-fledged government children, drawing their very existence from the state. And simultaneously, and in the most oblivious way, they demand that the state keep its nose out of their practices, until such a time as the flag issue in King, NC arises. Then, they drop the sails, crank the motors, and return to dry land, asking the government (read parens patriae) to protect their beliefs¯. At this point, the separation of church and state is a concept blissfully ignored, and no one dare mention it, at least, on the church side of the fight.
I would like to go on record as saying that while I support the right of the church to believe whatever they want, that same support stops at the clear, unambiguous line of me being forced (by exposure or worse, coerced acceptance) of their beliefs.
Having grown up with most of the church people involved in this fight makes their actions even more distasteful, having exited the church and the entirety of Christian beliefs after seeing the hypocrisy and delusion on a close and disturbing level.
So, I end with two statements: First, to the church people: Make up your minds. Either you want to be in bed with the state, or you don't, but please stop showing your lack of intellect by this convenient switcheroo/contradiction, and finally, I'll end with an earlier gem of mine:
Religion, like government, offers intangible products, such as security¯ and peace and safety. And although it's subscribers never touch, smell, see, hear, or taste the security, peace, or safety, they feel it. And likewise, many of those same delusional individuals feel¯(deep down) that you should be put to death or imprisoned, if you disagree with their feelings,¯ which are more commonly referred to as beliefs.
By Jay Vincent (Shore)
{AFTERWORD}
I just saw a "Sgt. Nathaniel Cline"¯ appear IN UNIFORM (at a public meeting, pro-Christian flag) and yet disclaiming that his words or position were on behalf of or supported by the USMC or the Department of Defense. This is but an example of the schizophrenia I am referring to in this article.(I'm here in my Marine Corps uniform, but I don't speak for them.) or (We're a religious organization, and we want the state to leave us alone on Sunday morning, but we also want the state to fly our flag in the city parks.)
U D Side

Sanford, NC

#2 Oct 20, 2010
Jay Vincent wrote:
Originally blogged at:
http://absentcapacity.wordpress.com/2010/10/2...
**For full article, see above link.**
It all started when someone observed, and then complained to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) about a Christian flag being flown at a city park and included veteran's memorial.
Why I give a damn about this issue is beyond me, but I see several perspective points of the issue. From the Viet Nam veteran who goes on youtube and acts like a teen on crystal meth to the churches who act as if the apocalypse is beginning, the Christian flag issue in King, North Carolina is weirdly as humorous as watching drunken greased (naked) wrestling.
The church community, on the other hand, is shown on the evening news telling the city council that they will raise money to fight the ACLU in any subsequent lawsuit battle. Then the church community insists on their government keeping the flag up and engaging in a long court battle with the ACLU (on behalf of the complainant).
At the crux of this entire dog and pony exhibition is the separation of church and state. While the complainant surely has the valid right to ask for this, the hypocritical church, on the other hand, most assuredly does not.
The churches, upon their inception, usually, if not always, incorporate as state entities, and then apply for 501(c)(3) status, and become full-fledged government children, drawing their very existence from the state. And simultaneously, and in the most oblivious way, they demand that the state keep its nose out of their practices, until such a time as the flag issue in King, NC arises. Then, they drop the sails, crank the motors, and return to dry land, asking the government (read parens patriae) to protect their beliefs¯. At this point, the separation of church and state..........
“Separation of Church and State” is a catch phrase
Here is a request that has not adequately been answered!

Posted Tuesday Sep 21
4him wrote:
I wish one of these great thinkers would provide a ratified US document that uses the words “Separation of Church and State”. Not a letter, an interpretation, or a ruling, but a ratified document. Then we can talk about what to uphold.
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/myfox8/THD7...
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/myfox8/TA79...
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/myfox8/TA79...

Without “prohibiting the free exercise of religion, or abridging the freedom of speech”, can a government consisting of “We the people” truly ‘separate’ from religious faiths? Was the first amendments intent to remove all religious influence from government (or in our case the public square) or about removing all government influence from religion i.e.‘Government controlled Religions’?

Next they will want to prohibit people of faith from seeking public office.

Resources
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bil...
http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php...

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Commentary on its meaning
http://www.coralridge.org/medialibrary/defaul...
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles...
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles...
http://users.mikrotec.com/~dcgay/judicialtyra...

You Decide

More
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/myfox8/TBTV... http://www.topix.com/forum/source/myfox8/THD7...
http://www.topix.com/forum/source/myfox8/TA79...
Seek Truth

Sanford, NC

#3 Oct 20, 2010
Jay Vincent wrote:
Originally blogged at:
http://absentcapacity.wordpress.com/2010/10/2...
**For full article, see above link.**
I was in Christianity at least 35 years of my life, and heavily and devotedly so for much of that 35 years, memorizing scripture, doctrine, and arguments so well that debates were a joyful thing for me at one point, while now, I dispatch the attacks quickly and efficiently to save time..........
Interesting you say "I was in Christianity at least 35 years" Who uses this type of phrasing? So you are careful not say you were a Christian for 35 years. Therefore you must know others had something different than you did. Religion won't cut it. A head knowledge won't cut it either. You must humble you self, repent, and give God his rightful place as your creator.

“That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.” John 3:15-17

You never did this whole-heartedly did you? Isn't that why you say "I was in Christianity at least 35 years".

U D Side

Sanford, NC

#5 Oct 20, 2010
Jay Vincent wrote:
..........First, to the church people: Make up your minds. Either you want to be in bed with the state, or you don't, but please stop showing your lack of intellect by this convenient switcheroo/contradiction,..... ....
This statement is you showing you ignorance. The phrase "Separation of church and state" appear nowhere in the history of this country prior to the mid twentieth century. The phrase “wall of separation between Church and State” comes from a letter Thomas Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists. This letter was to address their concerns about a government controled church. This wall was the result of a restriction on the legislative branch in the first amendment.

Quoted text:
“To ensure that no single person or entity had a monopoly on power, they instituted a system of checks and balances. The president's power is checked by the Congress, which can refuse to confirm his appointees, for example, and has the power to impeach, or remove, a president. Congress may pass laws, but the president has the power to veto them (Congress, in turn, may override a veto). And the Supreme Court can rule on the constitutionality of a law, but Congress, with approval from two-thirds of the states, may amend the Constitution.”
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/usconstitution/...

First amendment
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Thus without law, there exist nothing for the President to sign or veto. Also without law there exist nothing for the Supreme Court to rule on. So judicial review can only render a decision based on the constitution. If the first amendment is interpreted loosely and abstractly and by function of the “supremacy clause” extended to apply on the more aggregated forms of government we have suppression of religious speech. If justices interpret the first amendment as written. We have religious liberty imparted to on the more aggregated forms of government. It is important to note that the first amendment came after the constitution including the supremacy clause was already in place. This affirms that the singling out of congress was intentional. Many believe that religious liberty is most consistent with the framers intent.

http://www.coralridge.org/medialibrary/defaul...
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles...
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles...
http://users.mikrotec.com/~dcgay/judicialtyra...

There are those who would claim that the judiciary creating case law where it is expressly stated NO LAW shall exists is in its self unconstitutional.
Seek Truth

Sanford, NC

#6 Oct 20, 2010
Jay Vincent wrote:
Originally blogged at:
http://absentcapacity.wordpress.com/2010/10/2...
**For full article, see above link.**
I was in Christianity at least 35 years of my life, and heavily and devotedly so for much of that 35 years, memorizing scripture, doctrine, and arguments so well that debates were a joyful thing for me at one point, while now, I dispatch the attacks quickly and efficiently to save time.
..........By Jay Vincent (Shore).........
Could this be the same Jay Vincent Shore

http://www.earthstarspiritualcenter.org/index...
john in high point

AOL

#7 Oct 21, 2010
I feel very sick reading the educational writers on this forum. You may have the big degree but you certainly are and or have been very much deceived! Christianity is a personal relationship with God not other christians. The argument of church and state is so foolisly portrayed here I feel sick to my stomach. We all know this country was founded on or by religious principles but some rather cover this up and not face the gospel truth. I pray that God allows you to live long enough to see the bowing of the knees and professing of the tounges !! God loves you even if you reject him after 35 years and then letting satan capture you with lies.
Stella Altman

Tryon, NC

#8 Oct 21, 2010
To Jay Vincent

Your writing here,filled with untruths, is still artfully done so far as great flowing words but your attempt to appear superior in intelligence and reasoning - even to be the undisputed master of pure fact - has failed because it is laced with hatred, anger, and mockery.

Not to infuriate you but you will be prayed for as from all indications, "in Christianity" has not meant for you the same as Christ indwelling you.

I have to ask. Why the hate?
LOL

King, NC

#9 Oct 21, 2010
Seek Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Could this be the same Jay Vincent Shore
http://www.earthstarspiritualcenter.org/index...
It if is, he is newly ordained, 8/30/10. Very interesting because I believe that one of the letters that was in the Stokes News today, was penned by a person that practices Tai Chi.
Seek Truth

Sanford, NC

#11 Oct 21, 2010
LOL wrote:
<quoted text>
It if is, he is newly ordained, 8/30/10. Very interesting because I believe that one of the letters that was in the Stokes News today, was penned by a person that practices Tai Chi.
Dale of this site bears a striking resemblance to a certain Steve, ex Police officer and Martial Arts Guru. It would not be a huge leap to suggest that these two individuals could be acquainted would it ????????
Hmm

King, NC

#12 Oct 21, 2010
Several people working to together to attack King and it's veterans and citizens??? Interesting, I just wonder....I am sure someone might be able to pull all of the players and their connections into this. It would be interesting to find out, I heard that some big names were going to be at the rally. They just may want to report on it.
Link

King, NC

#13 Oct 21, 2010
Seek Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Dale of this site bears a striking resemblance to a certain Steve, ex Police officer and Martial Arts Guru. It would not be a huge leap to suggest that these two individuals could be acquainted would it ????????
Where is the link to Dale?
Seek Truth

Sanford, NC

#14 Oct 21, 2010
Link wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is the link to Dale?
About us

http://earthstarspiritualcenter.org/index.php...
You Must Be Jealous

King, NC

#15 Oct 21, 2010
Seek Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Dale of this site bears a striking resemblance to a certain Steve, ex Police officer and Martial Arts Guru. It would not be a huge leap to suggest that these two individuals could be acquainted would it ????????
Wow, you surely don't like Steve. Apparently you’re jealous! Did you not make the cut for the police academy or you not get your black belt you little whiner?

You forgot to say the guy is retired. So financially or otherwise I bet it doesn’t matter to him what you think.

Hell, you’re not even in this state or town; you just need to worry about Arkansas. With the governors and presidents (adulators) you people put out I’m sure you voted for Obama!
Seek Truth

Sanford, NC

#16 Oct 21, 2010
You Must Be Jealous wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, you surely don't like Steve. Apparently you’re jealous! Did you not make the cut for the police academy or you not get your black belt you little whiner?
You forgot to say the guy is retired. So financially or otherwise I bet it doesn’t matter to him what you think.
Hell, you’re not even in this state or town; you just need to worry about Arkansas. With the governors and presidents (adulators) you people put out I’m sure you voted for Obama!
Funny I guess I hit on the truth for I said nothing of disliking Steve. Just pointed out similarity.

Once again 'steve' thinks he is the center of things. That people are reacting to him personally and not his actions.

Furthormore I did not tell this forum that I was in Arkansas. Check the forum, sometimes it says Pfafftown, sometimes it says Rural Hall, sometimes it says Winston Salem, and sometimes it says Little Rock for me. None of which is correct. Be careful what you assume. And even if I was in Arkansas there is noting to say that I couldn’t be a King resident out in Arkansas on business.
You Must Be Jealous

King, NC

#17 Oct 21, 2010
You certainly assume a lot about this Steve. Have you ever met or talk with him?

Why do you hide where your from. Hell, I think you Steve playing both sides.

Stop hiding in the closet and come out.
Sad Pathetic Christians

King, NC

#18 Oct 21, 2010
How sad, pathetic and hypocritical these so called Christians of King and throughout this country are acting concerning a piece of cloth. It may represent your faith and yes, you want to push that upon others as if it will get you further in your cause or more stars in your crown in heaven.
I see people spending thousands and thousands of dollars on flags, plastic signs, and money raised to fight a court battle, which the only ones there that make money are the lawyers.

Where is your Christianity? The amount of money, time and man hours that have been invested into this ridiculous cause could have built several homes for habitat, helped the elderly or the poor, feed children in the KING community that don’t have food on the table, people that are losing their homes, homeless families living on the street “YES EVEN IN KING”, families that can’t put food on their tables, etc…too bad you people can’t be this enthused when it comes to giving or helping others.

But what do we have are “Christians” that wish to turn a blind eye to other more serious problems and concerns in the community. Thinking getting a flag back up will solve everything.

We see were your priorities are. You stand on the corner praying, riding around with your flag on your car, marching and demonstrating as if some type of right that doesn’t exist is taken away to show all how righteous you are in the eyes of your fellow Christians and Man.

You commit the SIN of “PRIDE”!

OH YES, I’m sure you think Jesus would be proud of you. Doubtful when he would look around and see how you ignore your fellow man.

Sad you people are, VERY VERY SAD!

At least those of non-christian faiths, atheists, agnostics and others give and help others regardless of their beliefs, even to Christians.

I also wonder is my non-christian faith US DOLLARS good in your businesses or will you turn us away because we don’t believe the way you do? Time to Boycott every business the flies a Christian Flag!

By your example who would want to become a Christian if this is what it’s about!
Well

King, NC

#19 Oct 21, 2010
Sad Pathetic Christians wrote:
How sad, pathetic and hypocritical these so called Christians of King and throughout this country are acting concerning a piece of cloth. It may represent your faith and yes, you want to push that upon others as if it will get you further in your cause or more stars in your crown in heaven.
I see people spending thousands and thousands of dollars on flags, plastic signs, and money raised to fight a court battle, which the only ones there that make money are the lawyers.
Where is your Christianity? The amount of money, time and man hours that have been invested into this ridiculous cause could have built several homes for habitat, helped the elderly or the poor, feed children in the KING community that don’t have food on the table, people that are losing their homes, homeless families living on the street “YES EVEN IN KING”, families that can’t put food on their tables, etc…too bad you people can’t be this enthused when it comes to giving or helping others.
But what do we have are “Christians” that wish to turn a blind eye to other more serious problems and concerns in the community. Thinking getting a flag back up will solve everything.
We see were your priorities are. You stand on the corner praying, riding around with your flag on your car, marching and demonstrating as if some type of right that doesn’t exist is taken away to show all how righteous you are in the eyes of your fellow Christians and Man.
You commit the SIN of “PRIDE”!
OH YES, I’m sure you think Jesus would be proud of you. Doubtful when he would look around and see how you ignore your fellow man.
Sad you people are, VERY VERY SAD!
At least those of non-christian faiths, atheists, agnostics and others give and help others regardless of their beliefs, even to Christians.
I also wonder is my non-christian faith US DOLLARS good in your businesses or will you turn us away because we don’t believe the way you do? Time to Boycott every business the flies a Christian Flag!
By your example who would want to become a Christian if this is what it’s about!
We don't have a problem taking your money. Only, because it says In God We Trust on it. Go ahead and boycott the businesses, there is far more people that support them. You cried because others said they were going to boycott Steve's businesses...wait..that makes you a hypocrite. I wonder do the establishments that the complainers work at, support them coming into a community and attacking the citizens and Veterans? King was established by devout Quakers...the flag represents the long christian history from the beginning of King. Just as Old Salem was established by the moravians and Bethania was also established by christians.
See the complainers didn't move into the community to be a part of it, they moved in it to stir trouble. They chose to live here, but yet they complain. I am sure people are laughing knowing that these people are miserable in the community.
Dont think so

King, NC

#20 Oct 21, 2010
You Must Be Jealous wrote:
You certainly assume a lot about this Steve. Have you ever met or talk with him?
Why do you hide where your from. Hell, I think you Steve playing both sides.
Stop hiding in the closet and come out.
I don't know of one person that is jealous of Steve or the others. There has been enough people in the community that has met him, to know that they want nothing to do with him, even prior to the flag issue.
Would They

King, NC

#21 Oct 21, 2010
Jay Vincent wrote:
Originally blogged at:
http://absentcapacity.wordpress.com/2010/10/2...
**For full article, see above link.**
It all started when someone observed, and then complained to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) about a Christian flag being flown at a city park and included veteran's memorial.
Why I give a damn about this issue is beyond me, but I see several perspective points of the issue. From the Viet Nam veteran who goes on youtube and acts like a teen on crystal meth to the churches who act as if the apocalypse is beginning, the Christian flag issue in King, North Carolina is weirdly as humorous as watching drunken greased (naked) wrestling.
The church community, on the other hand, is shown on the evening news telling the city council that they will raise money to fight the ACLU in any subsequent lawsuit battle. Then the church community insists on their government keeping the flag up and engaging in a long court battle with the ACLU (on behalf of the complainant).
At the crux of this entire dog and pony exhibition is the separation of church and state. While the complainant surely has the valid right to ask for this, the hypocritical church, on the other hand, most assuredly does not.
The churches, upon their inception, usually, if not always, incorporate as state entities, and then apply for 501(c)(3) status, and become full-fledged government children, drawing their very existence from the state. And simultaneously, and in the most oblivious way, they demand that the state keep its nose out of their practices, until such a time as the flag issue in King, NC arises. Then, they drop the sails, crank the motors, and return to dry land, asking the government (read parens patriae) to protect their beliefs¯. At this point, the separation of church and state is a concept blissfully ignored, and no one dare mention it, at least, on the church side of the fight.
I would like to go on record as saying that while I support the right of the church to believe whatever they want, that same support stops at the clear, unambiguous line of me being forced (by exposure or worse, coerced acceptance) of their beliefs.
Having grown up with most of the church people involved in this fight makes their actions even more distasteful, having exited the church and the entirety of Christian beliefs after seeing the hypocrisy and delusion on a close and disturbing level.
So, I end with two statements: First, to the church people: Make up your minds. Either you want to be in bed with the state, or you don't, but please stop showing your lack of intellect by this convenient switcheroo/contradiction, and finally, I'll end with an earlier gem of mine:
Religion, like government, offers intangible products, such as security¯ and peace and safety. And although it's subscribers never touch, smell, see, hear, or taste the security, peace, or safety, they feel it. And likewise, many of those same delusional individuals feel¯(deep down) that you should be put to death or imprisoned, if you disagree with their feelings,¯ which are more commonly referred to as beliefs.
By Jay Vincent (Shore)
{AFTERWORD}
I just saw a "Sgt. Nathaniel Cline"¯ appear IN UNIFORM (at a public meeting, pro-Christian flag) and yet disclaiming that his words or position were on behalf of or supported by the USMC or the Department of Defense. This is but an example of the schizophrenia I am referring to in this article.(I'm here in my Marine Corps uniform, but I don't speak for them.) or (We're a religious organization, and we want the state to leave us alone on Sunday morning, but we also want the state to fly our flag in the city parks.)
Would the holistic center want you to be involved in this? If that was the picture of you on that website, yuk, gross,*%&! Perhaps, it is you that is schizphrenic. I...laugh...at you.
Sad Pathetic Christians

King, NC

#22 Oct 21, 2010
Dont think so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know of one person that is jealous of Steve or the others. There has been enough people in the community that has met him, to know that they want nothing to do with him, even prior to the flag issue.
It must be easy for you to make statements that you know nothing about. Many in here have posted they have spoken with Steve and find him to a very nice person, contrary to what you want to post, believe, or have people to believe.

But the posts that I read of yours and your attitude, I'm sure there are plenty of people in your community that want and have nothing to do with you!

It seems the only thing you can to is demean everyone that has an opposing opinion to yours. Therefore, anything you have to say is taken like a grain of salt.

Please try to get a life if you can find one Walnut Cove.

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