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#6709 Apr 7, 2013
Yeah, let's get excited.
Whoo hoo. Everyone knows everyone else is going to hell.
UPC knows ALL who ain't got the baptism in Spirit is going there...
HH knows MOST who break covenant with them is going there...
The RCC know ALL who don't attend THEIR Catholic Universal Church is going there...
Er, the Baptist Church leaders are saying hardly NONE is going there...
Who else? Oh yeah, ME.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
So if you DON'T know the One True God of the Jews, are you going there? Eh?
Sho nuff. Or maybe not. When I decide I'll let you know.
Don't hold your breath. Everyone else's opinion came before mine anyway.
#6710 Apr 7, 2013
I mean, if you AREN'T gonna make them pearly gates, then isn't this by definition mean you were in a CULT paradigm, like
WORLDLY mean cult, the cult of the WORLDLY.
Trinitarians are CULT to UPCers and Apostolics and HHers too.
Baptists are cult to all three also.
RCC knows THEY are the only true cult, I mean faith.
Baptists love everyone and most Cheap Grace.
Well, ALL are cult to me. How about them apples?
#6711 Apr 7, 2013
The weird thing is, you can be CULT and still make them pearly gates, I think.
But this may change and well, some have the GIFT of knowing the Judgment Seat Judgment. Like I don't claim to HAVE this GIFT.
I won't name any names. But some readers know EXACTLY what I mean.
The Gift of Knowing who is going to hell. Wow, this is a new one, no real precedent in the Bible.
Oh there is? SHOW ME.
#6712 Apr 7, 2013
See, exes coming out of HH should fear nothing under the sun, ever, forever more.
They have personally faced hell many times already.
#6713 Apr 7, 2013
Obviously I don't fear hell myself.
Why talk about it? It is sort of something we shouldn't talk about...unpleasant and such.
Carm Forums talk about it very casually. All who are not Pagan in their thinking like THEY are are going to hell, period.
Well, we ALL can't be right can we?
Man talk about unpleasant, yet so you all do. As if YOU are the arbitrators of Judgement, yes?
How can two walk together if they can't agree on who is going to hell and who isn't?
How about we leave that one up to YHWH? Oh, I should say God/Jesus/the Father and Son and the Holy Spirit?? ONE of those at least?
No, there is ONE who seeketh and judgeth. And Jesus was NOT referring to himself.
#6714 Apr 7, 2013
See, if you can't agree on the First Principle and the Great Command, these still binding for Judeo-Christians...
what WILL you ever be able to agree on?
Agree to disagree? Agree to be nice, at least?
Wow, NICE. I never thought of that one.
#6715 Apr 7, 2013
I must be doing something right.
I got suspended at Carm after two hours. They really like me there.
#6716 Apr 7, 2013
Let me tell you a secret.
Hell is MORE hell than 100 Jewish Holocausts.
Since it doesn't ever end.
No Jews suffering was more than a few years. But Hell is a few more than a few, yes?
And I KNOW no one likes to talk about the Holocaust here. Has nothing to do with US, right?
So why did I bring it up?
HH never brings it up? Isn't this one of their favorite subjects?
#6717 Apr 7, 2013
Actually BOTH the Holocaust AND Hell is one of their favorite subjects, among their own.
And Hell is more so than the Holocaust and Hitler and the seeds of evil then.
Who can argue this? Anyone like to try?
#6718 Apr 7, 2013
I think there might be a gift of knowing someone's soul is in danger.
But saying "If you do this, you will go to hell," is a little absolute, don't you think?
It sounds almost like an equation. A mathematical one.
Grace can BREAK any mathematical equation. It has the potential to do so. This is what PROPITIATION means, boys and girls.
Yet do we take Grace for granted? Heaven forbid.
#6719 Apr 7, 2013
Well anyway, let's be nice in the interim...
while 82% 96% 25% OR 56% go to hell depending upon your paradigm...
NONE together, NO unity, NO walking together in faith, NO bonds of unified anything, we have bonds only in our little cliques, and some of us not even that...
but at least we were nice to the JW's and Muslims and Buddhists and Ant-worshipers and hole-dwellers...
this is America after all. We can all be nice while our neighbors walk that rocky road to perdition...
smiling as we say goodbye forever, their screams of agony somewhat ahead of them.
God is terrible but we are nice, anyway.
#6720 Apr 7, 2013
I tell ye, the beginning of both unity in the faith and spirit is starting at square one.
For me it is the First Command and the Shema.
Too bad it negates 98% of you who negate THEM.
#6721 Apr 7, 2013
So we could not agree on either the first command OR the Shema.
I had a young man pointedly tell me today God is THREE. When I mentioned the Shema over an issue of Law.
We weren't talking about it, yet he had to correct my misinterpretation of Shema. He IS an aspiring AofG pastor, after all.
God is not ONE, God is THREE.
Well, okay then. I stand corrected.
And we are on Mars or Venus. Whaaaat?
#6722 Apr 8, 2013
The problem inherent to the Arian/Athanasian debate
was the ignorance over the word itself,'elohim'.
Instead of dealing in HEBREW terms and definitions, the heads of state, I mean our faith decided to deal with the issue on their own terms. HO THEOS to begin with has no direct correlation in the Hebrew language, since it is a generic idea of GodHEAD.
God was originally spoken of by Jews in terms of
YHWH Elohim and this is consistent although several other names were given to this entity. HE HIMSELF,
however tells them through Moses in chpt 3 that his name is YHWH Elohim and this was what God was known by from that point on.
As YHWH Elohim, He is known as the name, YHWH and the term elohim, which in general means 'supernatural entity'. So then we have the translation 'God' or 'gods'. This translation
doesn't expand as far as the term 'elohim'. Elohim also describes other spirits and principalities, ghosts and glorified somethings (Judges of Torah)in other worlds (heaven?). And angels of good as well as false gods.
Most have no problem defining God or god as either false God or god. But the word, again does not mean only this, but incorporates the whole gamut of supernatural entities out there, beyond us.
Jesus may or may not have been ELOHIM upon this earth. He was a glorified man, and definitely ELOHIM by the time Thomas touched him.
But your first command states explicitly and clearly that all ELOHIM are not the same.
"Thou shalt have no other elohim before me."
As Elohim Jesus can never be considered equal or the same as the Father.
So do you understand that I have solved the core of the Arian/Athanasian debate? NEITHER side spoke in the terms which the original holders of the Torah did. ALL spoke in terms of HO THEOS or THEOS.
And by the way, THEOS translated ELOHIM anyway.
If any gospel and epistle writer MEANT elohim, it would be translated THEOS or HO THEOS. This gets down to what was the mother tongue of the Jews, then, what language did they speak in their minds.
I posit the Aramaic which is informed by the Hebrew. DIRECTLY informed since the mother tongue of the synagogue then was across the board, Hebrew.
Without knowing extensively what form this debate had then, the Arian/Athanasian ISSUE of Jesus' Christology...
instinctively I know they thought in terms of Gentiles, not Jews.
#6723 Apr 8, 2013
And now you are confused, as confused as the AofG wannabee pastor in my parking lot.
He can't be a pastor since he smokes cigarettes.
I tried to help him as I was some 10 years ago
by a brother (now out) who was in HH then. Who told me the 'spirit of indulgence' which underlies smoking. That HIT of nicotine, after a meal, anytime.
The oral fixation to put things in your mouth all the time. The need for pleasure, that of substances.
And he tells me God is THREE. I guess handicaps do come in more than one spirit. The spirit of ignorance has pervaded our faith for pretty much the duration.
What do YOU think the first command says?
Have no other gods before me, except the three of us, together?
Whoo hoo. Brilliant. He KNEW the first command, this wannabee pastor. He just didn't know what it MEANT.
#6724 Apr 8, 2013
ELOHIM defines in meaning all supernatural BEINGS.
And THIS is why I say the term does not mean God, or god, or gods.
God is One Being. Jesus and the Father are two beings.
You can look at this intellectually. But even a child can comprehend the traditional Jewish view.
God is One Being. "I am the Being." EGO EIMI HO OWN.
In the Septuagint. "I am[ing] what I am[ing].
Eyeh asher eyeh in the Hebrew.
#6725 Apr 8, 2013
And THIS is the idea that hampers all of my detractors here...
That scripture is firstly informed by God,
and God has mandated ENGLISH SPEAKERS to hold now the Covenant of Torah.
And then some variations, which Steven Avery seems to adhere to:
As scripture was meant by God to be authoritative and true, then naturally one version was God-blessed
and made in general inerrant.
The much vaunted KJV in Steven's case.
Nice sentiment. But nice and the truth are not the same thing.
Gordon Fee's First Rule of Exegesis: Consider the historical context, overall.
The historical context also includes the language that they spoke. Authorial intent is primal. Selah.
Sentiments do not a three God make. How do you like THESE niceties?
#6726 Apr 8, 2013
So if you have these presuppositions in mind,
how in the world are you going to figure out what they meant then?
YE ARE GODS?? Jesus was saying that in other worlds, God DELEGATED other GODS??
And THEN took this away so that they would DIE LIKE MEN??
Does this make any sense? So then if God makes others GODS, then he too is in this category?
As SON OF GOD, he is in the general category of 'GODS'?????
Do you see how confused you are? This is important, boys and girls. Pay attention. Why, why because this is the direct response Jesus gives to the ones who said he 'made himself' God.
He was saying "NO, I didn't make myself God.
God made me God. So take that, dimwits."
#6727 Apr 8, 2013
He was saying "NO, I didn't make myself God.
God made me God. So take that, dimwits."
I was being facetious. He was saying:
1) God called these to whom the word of God came: elohim
2) I have not even claimed this as me (elohim)
3) As SON of elohim I give you my evidence for this claim
4) If ye believe not on this, consider my miraculous works which came from my God.
#6728 Apr 8, 2013
And what does he DEFINE as the term Son of Elohim, AKA Son of God?
whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world
The Father = God.
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