Letters on Homestead Heritage: Commun...

Letters on Homestead Heritage: Community or cult?

There are 7029 comments on the Waco Tribune-Herald story from May 20, 2007, titled Letters on Homestead Heritage: Community or cult?. In it, Waco Tribune-Herald reports that:

For seven years, we've shared fence lines with members of Homestead Heritage on three sides of our land.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Waco Tribune-Herald.

Baaah

Austin, TX

#6429 Mar 25, 2013
InLovingArms wrote:
<quoted text>
Just like I was saying earlier....where's the love of God in this message..."Total dependence on your NIV is of course your problem.". I'm sure many of us don't believe that there's many gods running around in heaven as we know that there's only ONE God in heaven just as I believe that Jesus is God, "Before Abraham was, I AM". I'm not going to argue with you on this, just simply sharing my belief...and not pushing you to believe what I believe. We all, individually, are connected to Him, in one way or another and we all search for more truth and light at our own pace as much as we can. What we all need is the LOVE of God in our hearts and in our messages to others, encouraging them...when some have become disillusioned or broken hearted from their and our experiences with HH.
"Most of you just ACCEPTED what they told you. Then DIDN'T LIKE the way things were going. And LEFT covenant just as unthinkingly." What makes you think we just accepted at face value what HH told us, we questioned and searched scriptures and felt connected at the time...and it was not easy to leave, most of us had a hard time leaving but made our choices to leave (or was kicked out/shunned). You went from one religion to another, did we judge you for joining and leaving one church after another, no, we didn't. We are all on a journey on earth, always until death come upon us. Without love of God in our hearts, we are nothing. Knowledge without love is nothing. Peace out.
Believe it or not, being pushy might be the only way to get this ball rolling, rolling rolling back to where we once belonged.

The Unified Body of Christ. This is the agape Love of the Creator.
What is this unity and how do we get it back?

By getting back to the One True God of the Jews.

To the first generation.

Remember when you thought I was being so bitter and pushy by digging around into your own private thoughts and presuppositions?

This is because I am extremely interested in them. See I am from the state of AK and there we mind our own business. I STARTED believing this above all things.

But circumstances force me to believe otherwise and there is no turning back. Funny? I am DEAD serious behind any smartypants facade or jokes.

We will all come together or not in this world and some of us will see each other, hopefully on the streets of gold past them pearly heavenly gates. But unless you delve into the issue and work it out with me, you are forever hidden behind your own fences, you ILA and everyone else who reads here.

Baaah digs deeper because he had to. NOW ye shall all know what he knows. God is One. Shema is primal. And the unity among all believers is the Holy Spirit of YHWH come in the name of His beloved Son.

No more, no less. No second covenant and no shunning, since I am not a shunner. I will tell you all what's up though. Because I am the OPPOSITE of a shunner.

IF you are derilect in your duties to propogate Gospel I WILL correct you, since I have found the definitive truth about it.

IF you don't care to debate, then don't. My polemic will last until the new Age comes.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6430 Mar 25, 2013
InLovingArms wrote:
<quoted text>
Just like I was saying earlier....where's the love of God in this message..."Total dependence on your NIV is of course your problem.". I'm sure many of us don't believe that there's many gods running around in heaven as we know that there's only ONE God in heaven just as I believe that Jesus is God, "Before Abraham was, I AM". I'm not going to argue with you on this, just simply sharing my belief...and not pushing you to believe what I believe.
Of course the NIV gives NO reasonable translation here, since little gods don't exist up there in heaven.

I am sharing a revelation which solves a 20 mystery for me, and you shuck it aside like a bowl of split pea soup?

And before Abraham was, I am [HE] is the actual translation here. In the Koine, ego eimi takes an implicit complement normally.

Jn 4:26, Jn 9:9 and Jn 18:6 and 18:8 all say "I am [he]."

My position is that the Koine is identical in Jn 8:58.
And the HE refers to the Messiah and not Exodus 3:14 which says
"I am being the being one, tell them the BEING has sent me to you."

"I am" is equated to Ho Own or "the Being?" Not hardly.

Your translation is conventional and awry at the same time.

Conventionally awry. Sorry to bear bad news. But again, the trin expert James White has even distanced himself from this idea.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6431 Mar 26, 2013
No matter how little or how much we know of God's ontology,

as a Jew will not normally interject himself and his opinion regarding God's ontology...

HH has trained US to only state what was stated to us,
not in this case from THEM, rather from the scripture itself...

no Trinity which is definitely never stated as God's ontology in the Bible...

or even a Binity which likewise neither Jesus ever stated OR the Bible ever stated, despite what you think...

It was stated unequivocably that Shema is our first principle, that God is one.

Jesus had a separate soul, mind and will from his Father by ALL accounts. This means according to Jewish orthodoxy he CANNOT be the Father, as Oneness have to end up believing.

It is really pantheism. Think about it. Not scriptural. Not true. Not even close.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6432 Mar 26, 2013
If Jesus was saying in 8:58 I AM like you say...

The wording in the Koine would be: ego eimi ho own.

Before Abraham was, I am the being.

Thus the Septuagint, which they were probably familiar with then at that time is intact, and the wording correlated to the Greek translation of Exodus 3:14.

"I am" by itself has very little probability for any correlation to Ex 3:14 for this reason. Even in the OT passage, ego eimi has a complement. It DOES NOT stand by itself as an existential claim, the absolute ego eimi without a complement.

"I am being the being one" was what eyeh asher eyeh
meant. And 'tell them the Being One has sent me to you', was the second half.

In order to render simple correlation, as the author John would do as a writer of gospel, the correct wording would actually be in the Hebrew: eyeh asher eyeh. So that none would be later confused as we seem to be.

"Before Abraham was, eyeh asher eyeh."

Because the closer correlation in Hebrew to "I AM"
is "ani hu."

And the closer translation to "eyeh asher eyeh" in the Greek is "ego eimi ho own."

"I am being the being one."
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6433 Mar 26, 2013
The first step toward unity is the willingness to change according to primal, or first principles.

Where else can you start?

And where else can this come from but the Bible?

All who claim biblical inerrancy for Gospel must start with the Bible.

And what the Bible says are the first principles.

Both Shema and the First Command negate any other but the one WHO and WHAT of YHWH.

This is fundamental. This is the beginning of unity for all believers.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6434 Mar 26, 2013
And if you are not willing to engage others about this, either intellectually or in fellowship or in
debate or any other interaction...

you will rot behind your fence lines, just as the fence lines themselves rot.

Wooden fences rot. Stand on rock and you are standing firm.

See the new breed of evangelist. David Bernard can intellectually debate any on the planet.

This is why he rises in the ranks of the UPC. This is what we ourselves and our children aspire to.

Unity of all believer who are followers of the Christ.

How can we walk together if we do not agree?

Hash it out. How else?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6435 Mar 26, 2013
IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU BAAAH.

NOT WHAT YOU BELIEVE OR WHAT YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE HOLY BIBLE.

No it isn't about me.

Stand upon the first command and the first principle of your religion.

And reformation happens. It isn't about what I THINK the first command says.

Because the first command is as clear as any other of the ten. Why would it be otherwise?

Ye shalt have NO OTHER ELOHIM before me.

Who is ME? YHWH. WHO IS YHWH? Your God.

WHO IS JESUS? The Messiah. The Christ. The glorified man who overcame the world.

GOD DOES NOT OVERCOME THE WORLD. He by definition
is the OWNER/OPERATOR of the world.

What's to overcome for HIM?? Your sin? God has to overcome your sin?

You all are looking at this bassackwerds.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6436 Mar 26, 2013
Your whole gospel is that God-man overcame the world.

But only as man does this have any meaning.

Since God can overcome the world with a slight jerk of His little finger, just as Benny Hinn does on TV.

He doesn't have to suffer. He doesn't have to die.

God-man died? Only as man does this have any correlation to reality.

Oh I speculate? Who started this whole speculation thingy? What is the Hypostatic Union, made creedal in 381 A.D.??

A pure set of speculative imaginations.

Stick to the Bible. You cannot go wrong.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6437 Mar 26, 2013
What would Jesus do?

What would Jesus say about this, this first command?

That it is moot and void through him -- the belief in?

8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

**********

Who is Satan 'getting behind'?

God or man? Is not Jesus reciting the First Command?

By the First Command, only YHWH the Father can be God.

This is not rocket science OR what Baaah believes.

You have to look at it from the POV of the people who were there then. Including the man.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6438 Mar 26, 2013
Is it even possible that Jesus said "Get behind me, Satan," for the Demon to get behind the God...

when all who have the Word of God on their lips are heads and shoulders above and the rest of them too,

over any demon, principality or power of evil?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6439 Mar 26, 2013
How can two walk together if they do not agree?

Find the first principles. Agree on these first.

See where it leads.

WHOO HOO!! Thank you Father in Jesus' name!!
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6440 Mar 26, 2013
Actually if Jesus was saying for Satan to get behind
HIM the One True God of us...

The more logical wording would be, according to Jewish idiom

PROSKUNEOW DOWN TO MEEE, SATAN!!

Or in English it would be something like, "Get down on your face and GROVEL, you little bug!"

Um, "Get behind me?"

Seems a little tame for the One True God of us, isn't it?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6441 Mar 26, 2013
Anyone who INVESTIGATES the divinity of Christ

has to confront the POV of the first two generations...

and the creeds propogated then.

Irenaeus' Rule of Faith

The Old Roman Symbol

The Original Disciple's Creed.

NONE of these say Jesus is God. In fact it seems entirely evident Jesus and God are separated by
the wordings.

This investigation for me is ended. No big ten year exodus of mind. The answer is simple and true.

Greek thinking took over. Jewish fundamentals were glossed over, especially the Shema.

And Jesus became God.

And we wallow in the mire.

How do you stop wallowing in the mire? INVESTIGATE. For yourself. Please.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6442 Mar 26, 2013
One fundamental principle is that the further away in linear time you are from the first generation

the further away you are PHYSICALLY from the truth these men knew about Christianity and the more possibilities for error. 35,000 denominations.

100,000 different gospels.

That which they knew in the initial outpouring of Spirit we must reconstruct in our own little mind-world.

A task to be sure, but not that complicated in the end.

Know the fundamentals first. All else is icing on the cake. Some like the icing better. But the eggs and wheat are what sustains us.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6443 Mar 26, 2013
How do YOU know my rendition of Jn 8 is false?

These words of Jesus imply HE IS NOT GOD.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

**********

And the following verses are all about who witnessed or testified Jesus' statement is true.
GOD needs no testifier since He MADE law.

Even though Jesus says he and his Father are testifiers, again God Himself needs no testifier.
Even the intellectuals of the day knew this.

18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

**********

I am one, and my Father is one. Jesus is saying that TWO testifies of him. Remember Shema says God is One.

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

**********

Trins use this as proof text for divinity, "I am he" but HE means the Messiah, this is why translators translate HE into the sentence although the HE is not explicitly a word there.
Another ego eimi verse which is not cohesively translated.

Telling us right off the bat the translators were not sure which is what.

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

**********

Of course Jesus NEVER said he was God at any time, so this verse CANNOT mean he is saying he is YHWH.
Secondly, he SEPARATES himself as the One God when he just said there were TWO testifiers not one of his statement that he is the Light of the World.

**********

28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

**********

ANOTHER ego eimi verse without an explicit complement. And AGAIN they translate it differently from verse 58.

38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

**********

Unless you think the Pharisees and scribes SAW Satan, then this is not necessarily literal and DEFINITELY not literal on the detractor's part.
They are Sons of Satan for following the 'light' of Satan. And Satan is their 'father'.

41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; WE HAVE ONE FATHER, EVEN GOD.

**********

Notice the exclamation of faith from the detractors. THEY saw only the Father as God.

49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth.

**********

ONE that seeks and judges. YHWH.

4 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

**********

Notice here Jesus does not REBUKE them for saying only the Father is God.

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

**********

So then the verses in 24 and 28 all have the ego eimi WITH the complement. And 58 does not?
Look at the Greek text. They are all the same, but 58 for us is different. Why so?

Why so? The KOINE does not say any different. I AM HE is the SAME HE as always.

The Messiah.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6444 Mar 26, 2013
And do you understand the flow of event here?

Them: WHO do you think you are? Greater than Abraham?
A prophet? Our prophets are all dead.

Jesus: Abraham rejoiced to see my day.(He SAW me
as the Plan or Word of God).

They: YOU are not even 50 years old, how could Abraham have seen you?(Not knowing he is the Messiah foretold of the ages).

Jesus: Before Abraham was, I am (GOD).

Like I'm following along half-asleep, and my head jerks up and I go WHHUUUT?

Talk about a whammy. Jesus put a whammy on them alright.

Here they are saying who does he think he is, and he goes: GOD.

Whoo hoo! God the mind-blower. Blew them right out of the water.

Except it does not follow. Doesn't track, as we say here in this neck of the woods.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6445 Mar 26, 2013
What is the main reason why it does not track?

25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

If he AT NO TIME says he is God, then how could he be saying he had 'said this from the beginning'?

Being God isn't pertinent? What?

Who art thou? YHWH. What art thou? God.

Where in scripture is this? Is it not the perfect time to announce it?

Who is Jesus? The Christ. The Son of God. The Messiah.

Since: Mar 13

Dallas, TX

#6446 Mar 26, 2013
Please don't feed the troll.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6447 Mar 27, 2013
PAPATRON wrote:
Please don't feed the troll.
Who is the troll except the poster who posts nothing substantial.

Has nothing to do with this or us.

Why do I say US? Because I once was an HH wannabee. For 10 years.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#6448 Mar 27, 2013
When I was a young man 20 years ago, regarding several religious views, some outside of mainstream Christianity

I was confronted by the singular claim of the Messiah:

"No man comes unto the Father except by me."

And I realized that logically there were only a few
possibilities in meaning here;

1) Jesus claimed to be the sole key, or door to
the True God of us
2) Buddha, Mohammed, Guru Ram Dass, Baha u lah,
others were lessor or insignificant prophets by his own claim
3) he seemed to be saying that without him, one cannot find the Truth.

And today looking back, the reality of the words are still starkly true.

No man comes unto the FATHER except by Jesus.

So how did we as mainliners muck this up?

We made the DOOR of us the God of us.
And hence the accusation against Oneness Pentecostalism, that they negate the Father.

You still believe in the Father, but Jesus is the new morph-face of him. He essentially represents the old God of the OT. Jesus is the new face of the NT.

This doesn't exactly merge or correlate to Jesus' statement, does it?

No one comes unto the FATHER except by me.

No one comes unto GOD except by the Son.

The Son is not God.

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