Letters on Homestead Heritage: Commun...

Letters on Homestead Heritage: Community or cult?

There are 7029 comments on the Waco Tribune-Herald story from May 20, 2007, titled Letters on Homestead Heritage: Community or cult?. In it, Waco Tribune-Herald reports that:

For seven years, we've shared fence lines with members of Homestead Heritage on three sides of our land.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Waco Tribune-Herald.

Baaah

Austin, TX

#5865 Feb 15, 2013
Your logical choices are simple:

IF God came to earth, His soul and mind and will are His own, there are no great drops of blood in extreme agony, there is no gaps in understanding
(either who would sit at Jesus' left and right hands in heaven, or when he would come back to rule) and his consciousness is His own.

This by Shema and by the First Command: Ye shall have no other gods before me.

To make a different NEPHESH from the Father to be that OF the Father is to make our world pantheist.

One glubbed into, morphed or mushed into the other.
Is this not the pantheistic POV? And how ultimately logical can this be?

Glubbingly logical?
I lived to tell the truth

Jackson, NJ

#5866 Feb 15, 2013
"I am the Lord Your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

You shall have no other gods beside Me."

HH went completely off the straight and narrow road when the elder’s decided they will take upon themselves HIS authority over every soul in HH. The elder's became Jesus coming to them in the flesh.

NO ONE takes HIS place, ever.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5867 Feb 17, 2013
First Commandment of the Judeo-Christian Faith

First Commandment of YHWH

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

6 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

7 Thou shalt have none other gods before me.

THIS God is the same One True God of the Hebrews the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the
SINGULAR God of Moses??

Think about it. A binary or trinary God is not the One True God who is YHWH. No way, Jose.

I mean Jeeaysous. A common name for an uncommon man.

In fact the one man who overcame the world. Our Lord.

NT formulation: YHWH is God, Jesus is Lord. Said over and over without inconsistency.

How you warp the One True God. Shame on you and us who believed you. Amen.

If you don't know the Shema, at least know your First Command, yes?

Fundamental. What do you stand upon?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5868 Feb 17, 2013
This was the First Covenant.

So what is the Second? To revelate Jesus as God?

Just as you abrogated Covenant the first time, you will pervert the Second Covenant too.

Because the Shema AND the First Command are abrogated when you made Jesus God in 325 A.D.

Just as all modern theology says the Law is moot and void, so too you redefined the God of you Himself...

The Shema is still active and binding. The Judgement Seat is still gonna happen. And we will be judged according to the Law which we must do BETTER than the pharisaical Pharisees of old.
And the Son will mediate or not. Those thrown into the fire -- too bad. Those spewed because Christ would not mediate (lukewarm) too bad.

Those who delve into gross sin and still think they have the VIP card to Heaven -- too bad.
Those who think the Law of Love which is Shema can be forgotten -- too bad.

This is not hell and brimstone. This is the plain word of God. Say otherwise and I will stand down.

Selah. This is all true. If you do not believe it then speak your piece.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5869 Feb 17, 2013
NT formulation: YHWH is God, Jesus is Lord. Said over and over without inconsistency.

IF Jesus is God AND the Father is one of the ONE Lord of us...

THEN the formulation would be REVERSED let's say now, 50% of the time, or so, give or take?

But it ISN'T now is it? The God of us and the Lord (Christ) of us. Consistent and true.

Not Jesus the God of us, the Father the Lord of us.
Not in the same sentence. Find it.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5870 Feb 17, 2013
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

**********

A fully PENTECOSTAL passage, both of Jesus' annointing and of their own, in the time of Paul when the Great Outpouring happened.

Pentecostally speaking, what happened? Why do some exes end up in totally UNCHARISMATIC fellowships?

It is obvious to me. They consider HH to be as pentecostal as it gets. And this was not enough or lacking in some way for them.

Let me tell you, the outpouring in the beginning was pervasive and great. ALL received this readily. And MANY will find another outpouring likened unto this one in the very end times.

"'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

**********

So why do HH decide that the Spirit now is inherent in the top leaders only, ONLY because as the trickle-down trickles down less, this less is decided to be in the few over the few??

This LESS is in the few over the few too. When we see the Great Outpouring again we will KNOW that this Spirit among us is great and true and stupendous and wonderous...not only LEADERS and the FEW will receive gifts and wonders.

Old men and young men. So what do we do in the meantime, since this Great Outpouring is not yet?

Wait and Watch. Just like the Bridesmaids with their lanterns, what?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5871 Feb 17, 2013
The Anabaptist tradition LOST vitality when they lost the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Now small law reigns and small law is their hope.

No one EVER got saved by small law. The ideal and the Way was that of giving up your life and there is nothing small about this.

When Jesus died on the cross, did he ask the women to cover his nekkid Jewish white body? No record of it. But as beautiful as Jesus was, this was not in the flesh of him; he was no Prince Valiant or Arnold Swarzineeger.

Small law be hanged. Men will be MEN and this is unto the life of us. You can get anal-retentive as you like. You can get holier than Joe or Bill as you like.

Love will find it's way. The heroes among men were the warriors, who tread where angels will not go.

Small law has nothing to do with it.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5872 Feb 17, 2013
Buh, but JESUS said to shine the outside of the cup too....

DO you see Jesus going from town to town with no sleep, a rock for a pillow, being beholden to the general populace for feeding himself and his own, wrestling and rebuking the DEMONS and the EVILS in our hearts, wading in the sewer of humanity as well as in the wilderness against the BEELZEEBUB?

This visceral, blood and guts man is our Lord whom we emulate. Now what say you, holier than thou?

AS he was whipped unto death with the Roman flesh cutters, unto the life snuffed out in him, was not the blood and guts of this man put out there as a living sacrifice?

And now we worry about Rustler pants and wedding rings, the small amount of gold being the smear of sin on us?

Where does this kind of thinking come from?
What exactly makes an issue of this kind of thing?

Am I stupid or what? What exactly is the dynamic or reasoning here?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5873 Feb 17, 2013
And HOW do I know the light is being snuffed out inside the fence lines?

I KNOW a son of an elder is in the rival church down the road, a large fellowship, popular for their music, pentecostal and the leader being the leader of THEIR leaders...

Last I heard this associate pastor had not been in contact for years with his own parents...

The Covenant to HH considered more primal than the simple lights among us. Light, glory, Shekinah, grace. These being metaphors of the Holy Spirit in us, binding unto the great unity and community among all believers...according to Jn 17

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

**********

...this unity what defines the Body of Christ and this unity being the power and the impetus...

the written word also being that which exuded from the mouth of YHWH, defining orthodoxy and what is true

from what is false. Light, glory, Shekinah, word, the Holy Presence of the Living Lord.

These are what the Son had and lived for.
These are what the son of the HH elder lives for.
These are what we hold to be true among us.

HANG old battles and old domestic quarreling.
Love will finds it's way. The agape Love of YHWH.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5874 Feb 17, 2013
Who is the truly humble man but the one who can let bygones be bygones?

The former pastor of HH pastors, would he be able?

Maybe, I know him not. What about Blair? Could he forgive or find a way back into relationship?

Or are all things water under the bridge and forget about it?

But since we are on this subject, and since Pilgrim has said I needed to do this, well...

would not this be as example to us if THEY did?
And who would make the first move? Is this not the responsibility of the one LOWER in the original
proper channel of authority?

Is this a wayward suggestion? Am I really out of bounds here?

What about the way things SHOULD be? Aren't we to think on these things?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5875 Feb 17, 2013
Let not bitterness quell your heart.

Yah. Me too.

And many who read this. And some inside.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5876 Feb 17, 2013
Small law might be encouraged...

when you make small law ENFORCED you put an
undo burden upon the weak..

the young, the jellybrained and the immature...

these will always be with us.

The Church encourages small law but enforces the bigger ones. How can there be any other logical
way among believers?

How easily you give up on these. How much more patience your Father has for these.

He does not even enforce the big ones, immediately.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5877 Feb 17, 2013
What small law enforced means inside HH is that they know what God calls salvific and what He doesn't.

And these things can get pretty microscopically pored over.

Wow, how can the average Joe survive there. Average Joes do the average stupid things.

Who knows when we ever get wise. Are only the wise saved? Only the holier and only the nit-pickers?

I would not have a problem with this except that
in the trenches and in life-and-death situations, do I look to the prim nitpickers or to the courageous ones? And for them too, which ones will help THEM in time of tribulation?

Then again, can you be a nitpicker and courageous too? And is this the ideal man? Like Watchman Nee
talked about the True Spiritual Man?

Truly, something about them nitpickers just rub me the wrong way. Like picken them nits all the time, ain't they got something better to do?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5878 Feb 17, 2013
Picken nits is like washing your hands before every meal...

I do usually. If I don't I am not gonna have a guilty cow about it...

Weren't the disciples chided by the 'authorities' then?

Just how clean do we make ourselves?

REEL clean? What about them little mites under our eyelids? And these pesky dust mites in our bed?

I have a theory about healthy kids. Let them grow up among the fecal dust, farm boys are the healthiest.

Strengthens their immune system, fecal dust does.

It does, it does...

fecal dust does.

Okay, evil spirit. I rebuke you in the name of Jesus. Sorry. Back to nit picking.

And eliminating those micro-devils too.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5879 Feb 17, 2013
Six times in John Jesus says he 'came out from the Father'...this being some kind of ontological emanating, as far as Oneness Pentecostal paradigm goes...

My initial study of this word seems to indicate that no one around him was really definitively understanding this either...

Jn 8:42

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth [exelthon] and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

**********

This passage to me indicates:

1)'coming from' was not of his own power
2) this was saying that God the Father of us
is not our Father if we do not receive Jesus' word, which he claimed were GOD's word.
3) no hint that he is claiming deity here, unless
GOD/father and God/Jesus was meant, and he never says this at all...remember the Father then was YHWH and the One True God -- my presupposition.

Jn 13

3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

**********

Here he says THEOS not the Father, but for me this is the same...also in trin/JisG paradigm this has to be the Trinity/Binity or Father or Son for God to give all things into God's hands...(how confusing)

But not so much if you just believe the GOD of Jesus gave Jesus the man all things....so what of the exelthon 'coming out from' here? Is it really an emanation or rather something else?

John 16

27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out [exelthon] from God.

28 I came forth [exelthon] from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Here it is the Father again, indicating to me that the Father is God. How in heaven's name is Jesus also God here? The juxtaposition is pretty stark.

God comes from God and God-Son goes to God, yet never is this said in the text?

John 16

30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

See how we warped the meaning? Instead of 'coming forth' we think "AM."

You know all things, therefore you ARE God. What is this corner metaphor all about?

AM is quite different from 'exude','emanate',
'made manifest', or 'made known'.

John 17

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out [exelthon] from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

You know what I think...this verb was used by Christ to denote the identification with YHWH's own Spirit emanating from Himself. Jesus is not God, but he is actually identifying with the Spirit of the One True God in these verses.

Also together, not ONE actually says Jesus emanated from God ontologically as a mini-god or demi-urge or some gnostical idea.

How could the Son emanate from the Father if they had two different wills? Two minds, consciousnesses and souls (nepheshes)??

It's a mystery? Two Gods in God makes a two headed God. Dichotomous. Binary. Double-minded.

Forked tongue as they say among the Mohicans.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5880 Feb 18, 2013
Exelthon, options

1) came out as God from God, light from light,
substance from substance, same being from God-being

Close parallel:
Came out as Word having been in the bosom of the Father

2) came out as the word: "Jesus" having been in the
PLAN (bosom) of the Father
3) came out from the place the Father resides (Gods)
4) came out from the SPIRIT of the Father or God
5) was proclaimed from the Father
6) proceeding having been SENT from the Father

**********

I like (2),(4),(5) and (6). Could be any of these or a combination and still be true to my paradigm.

True that is, to the orthodox view of the day.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5881 Feb 18, 2013
The main problems I have with option (1):

1) God from God makes two Gods in normal human thinking. Now the Shema and First Command would naturally come to fore in the Judaic mind-set.
As a whole among believers in the first generation

....it never did.

2) We showed in John's gospel the six times he used the word, it was alternated from God to Father. This is because God and the Father was considered the same.

Thus the Son AND Father do not proceed forth from the GODHEAD; let's get this one out of our minds.
Especially since the LOGOS by John's prologue comes out from the Father's bosom.

The Son proceeds forth from the Father SOMEHOW...
and these things Jesus said about it:

1) those who are commiserate or ready to HEAR the word have their own Father as God, as opposed to
being Fathered by Satan

Jn 8

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

2) cannot be the One God coming OUT from the One God:

49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honour my Father, and ye do dishonour me.

50 And I seek not mine own glory: there is ONE that seeketh and judgeth.

See the juxtaposition Jesus makes between himself
and ANOTHER ONE?

By Isa 45 said 7 times in case we would gloss over this concept: there IS NO OTHER ONE BUT GOD.

Do I need to go on? Chessmatch over, checkmate and game.

Who am I playing with, anyway? HH for one.

All trins/JisG also.
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5882 Feb 18, 2013
We can say water FROM water, Light from True Light,
a ray of light from the sun (Tertullian) and then

infer the next rational line more palatably:

God from True God.

But you have ignored the two separate

Wills
Minds
Consciousnesses
Self -- OTHER self
Individual -- OTHER individual
Being -- OTHER being

...this last one the clincher. Being from BEING
is the paradigm as per JisG.

But the first four categories indicate another being.

Go figure. Did you ever try to?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5883 Feb 18, 2013
The philosophical gloss was from the material to the abstract.

We don't know the parameters of will, mind, consciousness and being...

but we DO know the boundaries which are immediately
evident with water and light...

so we went from the material to the immaterial, the
solids/liquids/air which are inside the laws of nature to thoughts/spirits/soul-psycholo gy arenas

which are somewhat more abstract.

Can't merge two wills and make one God. Can't be done. Baaah's Natural Law of Two Wills.

I like making new laws. Kind of like Rustler pants?
Baaah

Austin, TX

#5884 Feb 18, 2013
The key is that Light from True Light is exactly true,

USING THE DEFN OF THE WORD "LIGHT" by the Jews of the day...

the Shekinah radiance which encompassed our YHWH...

distributed among the ones He made to share glory with Him...

Light, glory, word, radiance, Shekinah, Spirit of God.

These all denote the actual presence of our Living One True God.

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