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#5784 Feb 7, 2013
Same principle regarding Jesus having ALL authority:
I Cor 15
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest THAT HE [YHWH] IS EXCEPTED which did put all things under him.
#5785 Feb 7, 2013
Methinks that someone who is as looney as they come is out of the looney bin again! Guess we might as well wait a few weeks until he stops babbling again to try to read something with some sense on here again. Looks like his fingers would get so tired!!! Can't he be "excommunicated" from this forum???
#5786 Feb 7, 2013
In case you haven't noticed, I am slowly winning Abbe over.
Some day he will investigate the divinity of Jesus and find the same great void which I did....Jesus never saying he is God, actually saying God is greater than him, not in office or in some other drummed up capacity that we rationalize....but in absolute absoluteness.
Greater than him because he is our Lord and his LORD is YHWH. NO man comes unto the Father except by the Son, our Lord. This is the way to covenant and this for eternity.
What you think, heaven is only wine and roses? We are servants there too, glory to glory. There will be joy abounding, and this in service to God like the angels.
#5787 Feb 7, 2013
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
#5788 Feb 7, 2013
"Why do you call me good? Only God is good."
It was said clearly but we gloss over the plain simple text, over and over. Amen.
Many apologists actually say Jesus is claiming Godhood with this rebuke. But nay, nay is nay and yay is yay.
#5789 Feb 7, 2013
"Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone."
(He was pointing to HIMSELF as he said this).
Read into the text. Not stated at all. Not by Luke. Not by Mark.
And the plain text was not unknown in their day, I suspect very strongly.
It was an oft repeated phrase, much like the Shema itself. Know to every orthodox Jew of the day and some newly dead ones too.
#5790 Feb 7, 2013
I should say he was pointing to himself and WINKING.
Now the trin paradigm makes sense.
Yeah, whut. And pigs fly. When you throw them.
For a short distance.
#5791 Feb 7, 2013
I can get sarcastic. But I doubt Jesus did.
His nay was nay. His yay was yay.
Yes and amen.
#5792 Feb 7, 2013
The mystery of Christ was that he was going to die on the cross, hardly a mass expectation for the Annointed of YHWH who was King of the Jews coming in the glory expected of a king...
There WERE to be sure hints of the Suffering Servant
but these were not common expectation then or now among Messianic Jews who look with expectation for the Messiah to come...
When Thomas touched Jesus' side he was the last disciple to know that Jesus was indeed a resurrected man, exclaimed by the phrase "my elohim" and "my Lord" both describing the first among the dead for all believers.
So the mystery to the Jew was that Jesus was indeed the foretold Messiah, and indeed our propitiation over and above, in new covenant to Israel...not that Jesus was God Himself come to earth.
As creation, Jesus was the symmetrical man to Adam the one who could not overcome. Jesus not only overcame, his sacrifice took the place of our own
demanded lives in judgement. Selah.
God is not a lamb to be sacrificed, or a man who can lie. All Jews know this who are orthodox in their hearts.
When things like,'name above all names','power over all things','greater than the angels', all of these concepts naturally EXCLUDE the Father who created us and his Son for our propitiation. Amen.
#5793 Feb 7, 2013
wow lady, sounds like your beef is with God. you just said anyone who believes in God is deceived and any church is a cult. Pick a different place to vent it carp
#5795 Feb 9, 2013
Wow, man stop discriminating against us ladies.
Carp somewhere else youself.
#5796 Feb 9, 2013
Both trinitarian and modalist must modify Shema to include two or three beings in the same Godhead.
This is fundamentally requisite.
Read Mark 12 once more from Jesus POV. This is not necessarily JEWISH POV or HISTORICAL POV or TRADITIONAL POV...although all three are true also...
Jesus' Shema was the same Shema as the orthodox Shema of the day. Words like "only Him shalt thou serve," "...only God is good," "...we know there is One God..." "God is greater than I," are all faithful repetitions and slight variations of the original first principle of the Judaic religion.
These are repeated not only by our Lord but all within the milieu of the age. The first generation
disciples and apostles were dominantly Jewish and worshiped the One True God.
"We know WHAT we worship." Jn 4 to the Samaritan woman.
#5797 Feb 9, 2013
And what was the common complaint against Samaritans by the sister religion?
That they were syncretistic regarding their God.
"Salvation is from the Jews."
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
#5798 Feb 9, 2013
See how 'thee' and 'Jesus Christ' are not the same referents.
AND that Jesus Christ cannot BE the Only True God according to the simple grammatical structure of the sentence.
John the apostle was also orthodox Jew.
#5799 Feb 9, 2013
And if John the apostle was orthodox Jew, then can God be with God as Word is with God in the prologue of John? One God being Jesus, another the Father?
Somehow then morphed into the same God making "Him" still One?
Next to, toward, with, to or face-to-face with?
"The word was with God." pros ton theon
The SAYING was with God in His bosom. This was a potent force even not yet having been said.
Otherwise, how could a prophet prophesy of it?
#5800 Feb 9, 2013
The Hebrew "uiamr aleim" said 13 times in the Creation Account, or in English, "God SAID" (and it was manifest) is what John meant.
IN THE BEGINNING.
The bridge of understanding, as every Jew in his day also knew of?
4 For the word of the Lord is right; and all his works are done in truth.
5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the Lord.
6 By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Hebrew: DABAR. Greek: LOGOS.
THIS is the correct definition of the WORD as John knew it.
#5801 Feb 9, 2013
So how did the Word get redefined by men?
To an UNORTHODOX idea that Christ is God incarnate?
Men like Justin Martyr. Philosophers all.
Greek thinkers. We know where this lead.
Trinity. Your three-headed God.
But a Binity is wrong too. God is not the head of Jesus and the Father both.
Jesus is not the Father. UPC leaders could spout this in ecstacy all they want. It is not true.
Jesus has his own mind and will. This is true.
No matter how much his own is subject to the One True God, it is still his own.
#5802 Feb 9, 2013
If the glorified Jesus is morphed into the One True God,
then we all too as men or elohim glorified will be morphed into the One True God,
keeping in line with the 'one' or unified 'oneness' which in the koine is 'hen' as opposed to the cardinal masculine singular 'eis' or numerical one.
The 'hen' having been used by Jesus when he said, "I and the Father are 'one'.
This 'hen' being the same 'hen' used in Jn 17:
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Not the 'eis' of the Shema.
So then, since when did we become pantheist? ALL of us morphed into God??
#5803 Feb 9, 2013
IF Jesus as glorified man is unified in Spirit in an absolute sense with his Father...being now a life-giving spirit...1 Cor 15
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
AND we as men glorified will also be unified in an absolute trickled down sense as our Lord Jesus is...
WHAT is the difference between us and the pantheistic world view?
That we retain our separate individual 'persons'?
Our own mind, will and consciousness? Is this not true? Is it not what separates us from the eastern gnostic world-view?
#5804 Feb 9, 2013
And from Jewish POV then, it is possible for man to
become an ELOHIM,
but not the One True God.
"Those to whom the word of God came." This was the definition Jesus himself gave of the word 'elohim' in John 10.
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