Leaky dam causes flood worries in Seattle area

For nearly 25 years Kathy Gladden has lived about 100 feet from the Green River, a normally placid stream that meanders past the many homes, offices, warehouses and shopping malls that blanket the area.

[Darc]

If they were worried about any flooding this winter they should have been releasing water all summer, instead they let it build up and now if it breaks we are screwed. It doesnt matter how much warning you give anyone, if the Army crops of engineers have failed to release the water then they are responsible for any damage that happens down stream!

[TtoTheC]

Darc,
You haven't investigated the issue before your knee hit you in the face. It's a flood control dam. It doesn't have any water behind it right now. It will only be in real use when it starts raining a lot in the winter

[Darc]

TtoTheC wrote:

Darc,
You haven't investigated the issue before your knee hit you in the face. It's a flood control dam. It doesn't have any water behind it right now. It will only be in real use when it starts raining a lot in the winter

Ok smart guy, we will wait and see what happens. I Delivered materials to the dam, have you ever been there and seen how much water is behind it? Alot! And it should have been draining

[celebrate subversity]

Darc wrote:

If they were worried about any flooding this winter they should have been releasing water all summer, instead they let it build up and now if it breaks we are screwed. It doesnt matter how much warning you give anyone, if the Army crops of engineers have failed to release the water then they are responsible for any damage that happens down stream!

I've wondered why they haven't been releasing more water, since we've been hearing about this for several months. Then I remembered, it's a government job...and there's just no place for rational thought and planning in a government project.

...stay tuned for the fumblings of FEMA coming this winter!

[Christy]

TtoTheC wrote:

Darc,
You haven't investigated the issue before your knee hit you in the face. It's a flood control dam. It doesn't have any water behind it right now. It will only be in real use when it starts raining a lot in the winter

Wow, your knee hit you in the face? I feel like I'm on the elementary school playground and that's the best a 2nd grader could come up with. Very impressive. You must work for state or federal government?

The dam does in fact have water behind it and quite a bit of it. The Corp is still holding too much water. It should be almost empty now in case of heavy fall & winter rains and it's not even close. This dam will most likely fail this year without proper management. However, the government did tell people to get flood insurance while the insurance companies are writing policies excluding any flood except an "act of God" meaning that if the Corps releases water to keep it from failing, that is an "act of government", not covered.

Research the issue before making yourself look so foolish.

[Prometheus]

I've been reading extensively on the nature of these structures and their typical reasons for failure. Hydraulic pressures at depth are spread across a broad relatively smooth face (the back of the dam) rather equally, but the pressures become akin to a waterjet once they find concentrated areas such as in a crevice or depression. The dam's pond should have been lowered significantly more during the dry summer to prepare for any larger than normal winter rains in the watershed. As I understand it the odds of failure may be as high as one in three .. and the contingency plan will be for moderately high releases with an expected displacement of 30 to 40k individuals from houses and businesses. The economic toll will be very high, the emotional aftermath even higher. Take care.

Christy wrote:

<quoted text>
Wow, your knee hit you in the face? I feel like I'm on the elementary school playground and that's the best a 2nd grader could come up with. Very impressive. You must work for state or federal government?
The dam does in fact have water behind it and quite a bit of it. The Corp is still holding too much water. It should be almost empty now in case of heavy fall & winter rains and it's not even close. This dam will most likely fail this year without proper management. However, the government did tell people to get flood insurance while the insurance companies are writing policies excluding any flood except an "act of God" meaning that if the Corps releases water to keep it from failing, that is an "act of government", not covered.
Research the issue before making yourself look so foolish.

[LeakyToilet]

The "old Media" got it wrong as usual. This was just an unusually heavy morning flush at the 4,347,000 Starbucks in Seattle.

[BGHOZ]

Why is this posted in the Marin IJ?

[Commander Bunny]

BGHOZ wrote:

Why is this posted in the Marin IJ?

I think it might have something to do with the fact the watermains, and gas lines are bursting daily in Los Ageles to the south, Seatle being north, that puts Us kinda in the middle.

I think it's Their way of saying "Head for the hills, the BIG ONE's coming!"
It's about time for something big to happen to the West coast.

[Prometheus]

I think it's interesting that msny people have chosen to respond to this topic with humor and a seemingly non-chalant attitude about something that will affect the entire metropolitan area. The dam has a one in three chance of failure if the watershed receives as much or more rainfall than last season. The Army Corp and the county are playing catch-up to try to stabilize the right abuttment of the impoundment which is an alluvial outcropping, the result of a landslide when the glaciers retreated about 12,000 years ago. References to recent seismic activity to the South in California have no immediate bearing on the dam unless activity along the fault in the Cascades range contributes to a moderate seismic event at least on the order of 5.0 + on the Richter. In that scenario, a phenomenon known as liquifaction will de-stabilize the impoundment leading to a failure. Recent sandbagging along the Green River below the dam will do little to control anything more than a moderate release of water from the pond, whether it be by a breach or by a controlled draw down of additional waters as they flow into the lake. People should simply be following this situation more closely.

[BGHOZ]

Commander Bunny wrote:

<quoted text>
I think it might have something to do with the fact the watermains, and gas lines are bursting daily in Los Ageles to the south, Seatle being north, that puts Us kinda in the middle.
I think it's Their way of saying "Head for the hills, the BIG ONE's coming!"
It's about time for something big to happen to the West coast.

Tsunami?Did I say that? Yes, I did.....

[BGHOZ]

Prometheus wrote:

I think it's interesting that msny people have chosen to respond to this topic with humor and a seemingly non-chalant attitude about something that will affect the entire metropolitan area. The dam has a one in three chance of failure if the watershed receives as much or more rainfall than last season. The Army Corp and the county are playing catch-up to try to stabilize the right abuttment of the impoundment which is an alluvial outcropping, the result of a landslide when the glaciers retreated about 12,000 years ago. References to recent seismic activity to the South in California have no immediate bearing on the dam unless activity along the fault in the Cascades range contributes to a moderate seismic event at least on the order of 5.0 + on the Richter. In that scenario, a phenomenon known as liquifaction will de-stabilize the impoundment leading to a failure. Recent sandbagging along the Green River below the dam will do little to control anything more than a moderate release of water from the pond, whether it be by a breach or by a controlled draw down of additional waters as they flow into the lake. People should simply be following this situation more closely.

Heh, don't get me started on you........

[Prometheus]

The real message in the Army Corp Of Engineers reports and those of the water management services(a number of diparate beaurocratic entities)is threefold; The 'stabilization repairs' are severely behind schedule, so the dam is not ready for the increased inflow from fall/winter rains in the 220 square mile watershed, The pond level was not drawn down nearly enough during the dry summer to handle all inflow, and the sandbagging along the Green is too little and too late. A nice effort but a temporary stop-gap nonetheless. Some computer generated climatological scenarios factoring the recently evolved 'el Nino' in the Pacific indicate a possible uptick to previously estimated rainfall totals for the PNW .. hopefully they are wrong. All anyone can do now is wait.

[Commander Bunny]

BGHOZ wrote:

<quoted text>Tsunami?Did I say that? Yes, I did.....

That's why the good-old Battle-Warren is above 5000'.
But what's going to be the fate of all of those poor Scabobians?

[SayAgain]

Scabobians??? Looked that up on the old 103 page Funk & Wagnall - nada.

What's up with that? Is the Commander hittin the old "carrot mash"?

Or is the old F&W due for a trade-in.

[Commander Bunny]

"scabobians", an inside joke between Bighoz & I.
But in marin, it's an old moniker for those that live in the santa venetia area.

[BGHOZ]

Commander Bunny wrote:

<quoted text>That's why the good-old Battle-Warren is above 5000'.
But what's going to be the fate of all of those poor Scabobians?

Gee so sorry on my late reply, and That's a Good Question...(ain't so poor anymore) Just my opinion.My suggestion is life jackets and a canoe...whaddaya say?

[BGHOZ]

Hey Commander by the way I have been observing the
pine tree in our back yard.The pine cones have been
popping like pop-corn in the kettle and the Brown Siskins are coming in for the harvest...it's going to be an early winter..........

[BGHOZ]

SayAgain wrote:

Scabobians??? Looked that up on the old 103 page Funk & Wagnall - nada.
What's up with that? Is the Commander hittin the old "carrot mash"?
Or is the old F&W due for a trade-in.

Eh? that's street talk for 'Skid Row',but
not anymore...insider information.As far as I'm concerned Commander can hit on the ol'
carrot mash all he wants...as far as I am concerned.