Climate change

My husband and I took a three-week trip this past June to the forests of Yosemite, Northern Arizona, Colorado, and Wyoming.

[Lowell Grant]

On my recent trip through British Columbia I traveled for hundreds of miles where all you could see were brown "evergreen" trees, all killed by the bark beetle infestation caused by low sap content caused by lack of rainfall.

While many deniers claim there is no global climate change, but seeing cruise ships travel across the Northern shores of Canada and Russia for the first time in history, or seeing millions of dead trees covering hundreds of miles tells anyone with their eyes connected to their brains that the climate has already changed and continues to do so.

The real question is how much does man influence the change? It is childlike to think that the world, which is constantly evolving, has stopped suddenly just because we are here at this moment.

Yes, carbon dioxide is a trace gas, but sometimes it takes only a tiny change to have huge ramifications. One or two degrees sounds small but is enough to change the world as we know it. For instance, once we see the permafrost melt there will be huge amounts of methane released, which is a much more efficient greenhouse gas. Once the ocean warms a degree or two, even more methane that is trapped in the sea bed will be released. Think of carbon dioxide as the trigger that sets off the explosion. So when you read the constant babble of someone claiming carbon dioxide is of little consequence, keep in mind that little consequences can cause catasrophe.

[Adrian Vance]

The anthropogenic global warming hypothesis is hogwash perpetrated by politicians out to tax carbon, the element common to most fuels, when it is in a "trace" in the atmosphere and by definition insignificant. The principle greenhouse gas is water vapor with 1200 times the atmospheric heating effect of CO2. This is all simple physics well known since 1857 and the work of John Tyndall, English physicist.

James Hansen and Al Gore manipulated Congress into this scam hoping to increase tax revenues on fuel and boost Hansen's billion dollar grants. He was given $750,000 by George Soros for his accomplishments in that name of international socialism, the politically correct term for Communism.

The last ten years have been a cooling trend and the drought in which we now live is a product of the first axiom of meteorology, "Colder drier; hotter wetter." We now see earlier snows in Idaho with the earliest on record opening for skiing and thousands of such stories across the country. In the last week of August while on my early morning walk I saw two flights of Canadian geese when normally they do not appear until late October. The empirical conclusion is that the elected class does not have the good sense of a goose, but they certainly know how to freak out the ignorant.

[Gypsy]

Another term for "Climate Change" is "Weather."

[Adrian Vance]

Lowell Grant wrote:

On my recent trip through British Columbia I traveled for hundreds of miles where all you could see were brown "evergreen" trees, all killed by the bark beetle infestation caused by low sap content caused by lack of rainfall.
While many deniers claim there is no global climate change, but seeing cruise ships travel across the Northern shores of Canada and Russia for the first time in history, or seeing millions of dead trees covering hundreds of miles tells anyone with their eyes connected to their brains that the climate has already changed and continues to do so.
The real question is how much does man influence the change? It is childlike to think that the world, which is constantly evolving, has stopped suddenly just because we are here at this moment.
Yes, carbon dioxide is a trace gas, but sometimes it takes only a tiny change to have huge ramifications. One or two degrees sounds small but is enough to change the world as we know it. For instance, once we see the permafrost melt there will be huge amounts of methane released, which is a much more efficient greenhouse gas. Once the ocean warms a degree or two, even more methane that is trapped in the sea bed will be released. Think of carbon dioxide as the trigger that sets off the explosion. So when you read the constant babble of someone claiming carbon dioxide is of little consequence, keep in mind that little consequences can cause catasrophe.

Lowell would have you believe the atmosphere is a system of dominos set up to delight small children and simple adults as the lines "all fall down." Sorry, that is not the way the atmosphere works.

They key word in atmospheric chemistry is "stoichiometry" the basic principle in all of chemistry. When a component is labeled a "trace," forget it. It does nothing because there is so little of it. Such is the case for CO2; what it does is insiginificant and it is 1/6th the absorber of IR(heat energy) than is water vapor. Google the string "water vapor global warming" and see 100,000 articles on this mechanism. There is even one on the NASA website "On The Shoulders of Giants," article on John Tyndall wherein he says, "Water vapor is the principle gas in atmospheric heating." He never mentions CO2 because it is insignificant.

Arctic ice changes every year and weather works in cells. Lake county has its' own cell thanks to the ring of old volcanoes that define it. The ice on the South Pole is increasing and recent Arctic surveys say it is unchanged in total mass, but redistributed such that an "over-the-top" sea route from China to northern Europe has been open in the summer. It will be gone as quickly as it appeared.

[Adrian Vance]

I put a post up here before the one above and it was taken down. What goes here? Censorshit?

[Lowell Grant]

What a load! LOL! Those were a lot of fancy words that add up to nonsense. Pay no attention to the cruise ships plying the Artic Ocean above Canada and Siberia for the first time in history. Pay no attention to billions of dead trees. Just buy that load of crap and you'll be fine! ROFLMAO

Who are you going to believe, Adrian or your lying eyes?

[Richard Hertz]

Adrian Vance wrote:

I put a post up here before the one above and it was taken down. What goes here? Censorshit?

All the post numbers are in order ! Must be them nasty little RB Gremlins...

[pedro]

who cares about ur trip

[Adrian Vance]

Richard Hertz wrote:

<quoted text>
All the post numbers are in order ! Must be them nasty little RB Gremlins...

It was gone for about an hour until I complained.

[Adrian Vance]

Lowell Grant wrote:

What a load! LOL! Those were a lot of fancy words that add up to nonsense. Pay no attention to the cruise ships plying the Artic Ocean above Canada and Siberia for the first time in history. Pay no attention to billions of dead trees. Just buy that load of **** and you'll be fine! ROFLMAO
Who are you going to believe, Adrian or your lying eyes?

I can only offer you the truth of the science I know. If you want to promote your beloved socialists agendas and ruin our economy, go your best. They are going to hurt you a lot more than me. I know few people who can enjoy losing $50,000 in bonds so the guy they voted for can disassemble capitalism. You are truly amazing, Lowell. I now understand how Germany happened.

[Donna Christopher]

Have a question folks, what happens when the permafrost continues to thaw (I only know it is thawing because the oil companies are having problems with the pipeline supports thru that area),methane is released and lightning strikes it? Is it a big boom? Flash fire? Will the oil in the lines be combustable? Yup, I need more science classes.

Whether it is man made or just an earthly cycle, humans can only live in a certain narrow gauge of breathable gases,- we are flirting with disaster as we remix that cocktail.

[Lowell Grant]

Donna, it's not at all likely the methane will be concentrated enough to explode but it will have an explosive effect on the warming of the planet. There is much more of it and it is many times more effective as a greenhouse gas than CO2. It will be released from both the permafrost and ocean bottoms. Keep in mind that the oceans cover about 70% of the earth's surface and the oceans are warming quickly.

Polar ice caps shrinking to the point of cruise ships plying the Arctic for the first time in history, glaciers all but gone, billions of dead trees everywhere you go. But hey, don't believe it and who cares about my trip!?!??? Ignore the facts, ignore what you can see with you own eyes and invent your own science where ice is melting faster because the world is cooling because that's good for the fossil fuel business and rightwingnuts! Put on your tea bag hat, strap on your assault rifle, scream stupidity at the top of your lungs and wonder why the sane people all laugh!

[Adrian Vance]

Donna Christopher wrote:

Have a question folks, what happens when the permafrost continues to thaw (I only know it is thawing because the oil companies are having problems with the pipeline supports thru that area),methane is released and lightning strikes it? Is it a big boom? Flash fire? Will the oil in the lines be combustable? Yup, I need more science classes.
Whether it is man made or just an earthly cycle, humans can only live in a certain narrow gauge of breathable gases,- we are flirting with disaster as we remix that cocktail.

You would have flunked my chemistry classes that is for sure...

Methane is such a minor trace gas in the atmosphere and so little of it would come out of the permafrost the scene you describe would not happen. Lightning only occurs that far north in the summer and while that is the season methane comes out it oxidizes in sunlight instantly and without notice. Methane has about 5% the absorption spectra as water vapor and is not "600 time the greenhouse gas as claimed by the Green Alarmist Gang of ex-community organizer ACORNs.

Our limit for CO2 in the air is 15,000 ppm and we now have 380. The "Tomatoes on the Vine" you buy are grown in greenhouses supplemented with CO2 to 700ppm and the men working there are totally unaffected. One acre of such a covered facility will produce 20,000 pounds of tomatoes per month and the reason they are cheaper, and better, than those from Mexico. CO2 is good, ask your favorite green plant it is 44% carbon.

[Lowell Grant]

By the way, my first job out of school was with a little company named "Meteorology Research Inc." for whom I performed environmental impact reports and had my airborne laboratory featured in the Smithsonian Magazine. This was followed by a stint on a subcontract with the "Stanford Research Institute" which brought me to Lake County in June of 1976 to gather data for environmental impact reports in the Geysers, which were in their early stages of development. I then worked for the Lake County Air Quality Management District and still serve on the AQMD Hearing Board.

I know all the big words, but why use them here where most folks are stapling tea bags to their hats getting ready for the next big do? All you need to do is pull your head out of your butt, open your eyes and see what is going on all around you. Trust me, glacial ice doesn't melt faster because it's getting colder and if you need big words to explain that you are in need of more help than I can deliver, no matter how big the words.

[Adrian Vance]

Lowell Grant wrote:

By the way, my first job out of school was with a little company named "Meteorology Research Inc." for whom I performed environmental impact reports and had my airborne laboratory featured in the Smithsonian Magazine. This was followed by a stint on a subcontract with the "Stanford Research Institute" which brought me to Lake County in June of 1976 to gather data for environmental impact reports in the Geysers, which were in their early stages of development. I then worked for the Lake County Air Quality Management District and still serve on the AQMD Hearing Board.
I know all the big words, but why use them here where most folks are stapling tea bags to their hats getting ready for the next big do? All you need to do is pull your head out of your butt, open your eyes and see what is going on all around you. Trust me, glacial ice doesn't melt faster because it's getting colder and if you need big words to explain that you are in need of more help than I can deliver, no matter how big the words.

Yes, but you have never mentioned any technical credentials, like a chem, physics or engineering major or even a degree in flower arranging, which I suspect having been in your office which is always nicely decorated. I have a sneaking feeling you got that job politically, hence your early indoctrination such that you could think it OK for Mr. Obama to give $50,000 worth of your bonds to union thugs. You tell us that was OK and expect anyone here to believe anything you say? Please, that's worse than your Studebaker fetish. Did you design, install and operate the apparatus in the airplane or just ride in it?

Colder than normal, "earlier winter" stories are all over Drudge every day now. I am seeing Canadian geese earlier than ever. My middlewestern sister complained to me about their "very early frost." The planet has been cooling for ten years, look it up at the Meteorlogical Society. Even Jim Hansen has stopped saying "global warming" and now wails about "climate change." It is all a total fraud just like "Barack Hussein Obama, mmm, mmm, mmm" Make mine "out, out, out!" Our worst President ever!

PS - My head is not "up my butt."

[Lowell Grant]

Once again, I try to stick to the issue, but all we get from Adrian are personal attacks. I will not engage in the childish car fetish nonsense and my personal finances are my business, if shared with a friend I expected that's where it stayed. My mistake to have trusted.

Please read my post that started this, I used the phrase climate change and speak to the fact that it is silly to pretend that the earth has stopped evolving because we are here now or that we are the only cause of the change. But change and warming (see examples given) are exactly what is happening, the question is, what, if anything can we do about it?

Ending our use of carbon based fossil fuels would obviously help. Stop giving any tax breaks or any other public funding for the production of any fossil fuel. Divert every one of those dollars to renewable energy this year and make the conversion to these energy sources a Manhattan Project type of national priority.

We have already fallen behind the Chinese in green energy and will lose any chance to regain a bright economic future if we don't seize the initiative.

It has been said that if you plant 5 trees per year you can offset your carbon footprint. Since the native evergreen trees are dying out in what had been their previous habitat, I suggest eucalypts as a drought resistant replacement. They are broad leaf evergreens and grow 12 months out of the year.

I planted 2,500 red gum (viminalis) and blue gum (nitens) on my ranch in 1985 when they were the size of pencils. Many are now over 125' tall. Gee, that was before W had quit boozing and snorting cocaine at Camp David!

[Donna Christopher]

Lowell - there are those of us that think of our children's future (and the entire planet for the matter) and there are those who's egocentricity will not allow any thoughts other than 'I want it all and I want it now, I'm old dammit and I don't care'!

But ya gotta admit, as a species, we deserve everything that coming at us like a freight train.

[Adrian Vance]

Lowell Grant wrote:

Once again, I try to stick to the issue, but all we get from Adrian are personal attacks. I will not engage in the childish car fetish nonsense and my personal finances are my business, if shared with a friend I expected that's where it stayed. My mistake to have trusted.
Please read my post that started this, I used the phrase climate change and speak to the fact that it is silly to pretend that the earth has stopped evolving because we are here now or that we are the only cause of the change. But change and warming (see examples given) are exactly what is happening, the question is, what, if anything can we do about it?

I have not attacked Lowell personally, called him funny-looking or anything else I could. I have reacted to his idea it was OK for Obama to give his $50,000 in bonds to unions. His response? It was his "responsibility?" What? For having the money? That is how Democrats think about other people's money, not their own and I say it calls for medical psychiatric intervention or lessons in truth telling. He is now complaining to me that I outed his wealth, but he told you about his bonds. I did not know about them; it was a lucky hit.
I am not ashamed that I paid $40,000 for his services in a year when many were and that it was in a period when Republicans were running the economy. He does not want you to know so you'll think he is more like you and he is not. Again, I say he made all of his great wealth between 1994 and 2008 when Republicans held taxes and spending down so the economy could expand and he could sell fancy houses to union thugs, community organizers and Studebaker fans. My objection is that he now blames Republicans for the mess we are in when it can be clearly traced to Barney Frank, Kris Dodd, Franklin Raines and Jaime Gorelick.
Man has virtually nothing to do with climate change. Earth has gone through many cycles and is now 10,000 years overdue for an ice age, signs of which I see having studied these matters since the 70's when I was commissioned by Doubleday & Co. to write the filmstrip series "Energy Now." At that time the big concern was the planned 1,000 new nuclear power plants and their cooling towns release of water vapor. Early "greens" said we would be in a steam bath. I calculated the size of the atmosphere, its' movements and sent my paper to Dr. S. Fred Singer, then the Chair of Environmental Sciences at the University of Virginia and the leading authority on the atmosphere. My conclusion was that there was no problem if we applied the Le Chatelier Principle to the atmosphere. I was the first person in history to do this. Three weeks later I got the paper back from Dr. Singer on which he had written "Looks OK to me." So, I went ahead with my version of the project and it was a prize-winning top seller.
I could go on for many pages about my work in this area, writing and editing papers for top people in the field, as I am a for-hire scribe, "Have quill; will scratch," applying for patents in the area, but all the anti-intellectual ankle snappers here would throw red-neck invectives at me.
Lowell will not answer with regard to his degree, qualifications or "use any big words," as he says. His arguments are emotional, populist and anti-intellectual because he wants your love. Frankly, I do not care. I offer you truth and if you cannot stand the truth then pay the stupid taxes these people have in store for you. If anything you will make me money and lots of it as I have patents pending on the only technology that creates a carbon economy instead of treating it as the most expensive garbage in history.
If Lowell really understood what he was talking about he would know that the trees he has planted do not cover his carbon footprint. The calculation does not take more than half a page of paper, but he cannot do it. So enjoy your ignorance. I've had it.

[Richard Hertz]

Lowell Grant wrote:

Donna, it's not at all likely the methane will be concentrated enough to explode but it will have an explosive effect on the warming of the planet. There is much more of it and it is many times more effective as a greenhouse gas than CO2. It will be released from both the permafrost and ocean bottoms. Keep in mind that the oceans cover about 70% of the earth's surface and the oceans are warming quickly.
Polar ice caps shrinking to the point of cruise ships plying the Arctic for the first time in history, glaciers all but gone, billions of dead trees everywhere you go. But hey, don't believe it and who cares about my trip!?!??? Ignore the facts, ignore what you can see with you own eyes and invent your own science where ice is melting faster because the world is cooling because that's good for the fossil fuel business and rightwingnuts! Put on your tea bag hat, strap on your assault rifle, scream stupidity at the top of your lungs and wonder why the sane people all laugh!

Pleae explain how the ice is melting faster because the earth is "cooling"

[Adrian Vance]

I have made no personal attacks on Lowell Grant. He offered that he had $50,000 in GM bonds and felt it was his "responsibility" that Obama gave them to unions. That's crazy, but the way liberals think. Normally, they are only that cavalier with other people's money.

I have joked about his Studebaker, but how many people would put that much money into such a car?

I am not ashamed to have paid him $40,000 for his services, as did many between 1994 and 2008 when Republicans were running the economy and he got very rich. That he now blames George Bush for the collapse is stupid as it can be easily traced to Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Franklin Raines and Jaimie Gorelick, all top dog Democrats.

He ignores telling us of his degree. Mine is in physical and biological sciences with grad work to boot.

Lowell's tree planting does not ameliorate his "carbon footprint" and if he knew as much as he thinks he does he could calculate it on a half page of paper. I can.

My interest in these matters was professionally inspired by my commission from Doubleday & Co. to write and produce the filmstrip series "Energy Now" in the 70's. Then the issue was whether or not the 1,000 planned nuclear power plants would turn America into a steam bath. I calculated the size of the atmosphere, made a mathematical model, pre-computer, wrote a paper, sent it Dr. S. Fred Singer, then Chair of Environmental Sciences at the University of Virginia and the leading authority on the atmosphere. In the paper I had modeled the atmosphere in the light of the Le Chatelier principle, for the first time in history, and Fred endorsed it agreeing with me that there was no problem. We, and four other leading physicists correspond on this and are all in agreement it is nonsense and Jim Hansen is committing crimes against science.

I have offered you an educated, enlightened, clear viewpoint on these matters and most of you have spat on me. Even the one person who should know better has participated. Enough, wallow in your ignorance, pay higher taxes for no reason, enjoy your depression. I am out of patience with you. I have learned why most people of my kind don't try to offer pearls to swine, but I have been a dedicated educator. No more.