Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 142349 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

spaceship

Roseville, CA

#127685 Apr 5, 2014
Lehi wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right, God the creator wrote Himself into our genes.
Genetic studies have shown that the gene VMAT2 allows us to conceive a higher power. Many religious leaders deny this because they say it takes away the need for a spiritual awakening.
The god gene during Moses time had Hebrews bowing to cattle even after knowing Yahweh, Must be a defective gene pool. Maybe that's what happen to Jesus brother Satan.

Do you pray to the heavenly father named Adam or Heavenly Mother Eve?

Brigham Young, who taught Adam is Heavenly Father, taught that his wife Eve is Heavenly Mother.

“Hats Off to God”

Since: Jun 09

3rd Rock

#127686 Apr 5, 2014
spaceship wrote:
<quoted text>
The god gene during Moses time had Hebrews bowing to cattle even after knowing Yahweh, Must be a defective gene pool. Maybe that's what happen to Jesus brother Satan.
Do you pray to the heavenly father named Adam or Heavenly Mother Eve?
Brigham Young, who taught Adam is Heavenly Father, taught that his wife Eve is Heavenly Mother.
It was a golden calf and you would have had to be there to fully understand why they did that.

BY was just a man speaking his thoughts, but it certainly isn't and wasn't the doctrine of the Mormon faith. We do believe Adam is the father of mankind, which makes sense, and we also believe he had a role in the creation of the world, that Adam is Michael. We believe that he was obedient and received all the blessings of god, which would be perfection and godliness. He is not "God" the Father and is not equal to Him.

FYI, the Journal of Discourses where this comes from was never recognized by the church as official because it came from notes taken in short hand and written with quill pen no less. Besides that, it was feared that the final documents may have been altered by those who wished harm to the Mormon Church.

If you want to do harm to the Mormon Church why not find something they are doing wrong today? That way we won't have to rely on "he said, she said" stuff from 180 years ago that no one can accurately verify since no one is alive that was there.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127687 Apr 5, 2014
Lehi wrote:
<quoted text>I like Joe Dirt.

Hang in there bro.
Haha. Thanks

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127688 Apr 5, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Hey man, how's it going? I'm floored that this thread is still alive.

I wouldn't attack Christians for not following the teachings of Jesus to the letter, but I would definitely fault them for upholding cherry-picked teachings and rules of God in general while excluding others. For example, at least around here, a lot of them will cite Leviticus 20:13 (anti-gay) when they rant against marriage equality. Yet they totally ignore the rest of the hundreds of rules in Leviticus. I mean, we have witches that live here. Nobody is suggesting we stone them.

Why not?

The answer is that Christians do not live by the Bible. They live by their culture and the Bible is cited as being the basis for particular cultural notions when it is convenient and the Bible is ignored when it is not convenient.

Christian morality is not Biblical. If it was we'd see a vastly different country and one that would be even scarier.
Hey Y. Long time

Unfortunately it does seem that many choose to live by some of the easy to follow laws and slack off on others. Keep the Sabbath holy for example. I always had a problem going out to eat after church. We were causing someone else to have to work. Didn't seem right.

I do understand that many laws from the OT were fulfilled and no longer in effect. This is the higher law I have been speaking of. Stoning for example, Jesus proved His point with asking the one among them that had no sin to cast the first stone. He taught us forgiveness instead. Glad I live in the times that I can choose to follow His teachings and only answer for myself when I fall short.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127689 Apr 5, 2014
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>How convenient!
So.... the People that came before Joseph Smith has not been saved???
Absolutely they were. Being "saved" is something that happens in the heart. When someone turns from their sin, repents, and tried to right the wrongs they have done, it is evident they are on the path to salvation.
We do believe that Jesus meant it when He said to enter Heaven you must be baptized. I really don't think He meant: it'd be nice if you could get baptized. For those that are converted but never received that ordinance, baptisms for the dead (in proxy) are necessary to fulfill His commandment.

“Momma didn't raise no fool.”

Since: Feb 14

San Antonio, Tx.

#127690 Apr 5, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, my mistake.
I meant to say that the creator-written book you use is different to the creator-written book that other Christians use?
Whatever way you look at it, it's different to that other book the creator wrote that the Muslims use.
Huh? Just say it in plain words. Don't try to be so poetic. It all comes out the same. The creator wrote no books. He inspired others to write the Bible. It's different 'from'.not to.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127691 Apr 5, 2014
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Eyewitness testimony is not very reliable. It can be useful but it should never be taken as primary evidence otherwise we could land people in jail for crimes they did not commit pretty easily.

Consider UFO abductees for a moment. The internet is jam packed with personal, first-hand accounts of UFO encounters and many of them have multiple witnesses. Yet we have no good evidence that any of them are genuine. And most of us do not accept the testimonies as being evidence for alien abductions.

Why then would testimonies from an even more supernaturally-minded culture (the 19th century) sway us?

Going to the most basic starting point for checking into the claims of Smith's eye witnesses this is a short list of criticisms you can find on Wiki:

[quote]According to Grant Palmer, the Book of Mormon witnesses had a "nineteenth-century magical mindset" rather than "a rationalist perspective." They believed in what was called "second sight. Traditionally, this included the ability to see spirits and their dwelling places within the local hills and elsewhere."[7] A number of the witnesses possessed and used seer stones; Oliver Cowdery was a rodsman.[8] As Tufts University professor John L. Brooke has observed, many of the earliest Mormons were "very much attuned to the supernatural powers of witchcraft."[9] "Far removed from our own modern empiricism, the world view of the witnesses is difficult for us to grasp," and thus it is less impressive that "three signatories to the Book of Mormon saw and heard an angel."[10]

All the witnesses were family, close friends, or financial backers of Joseph Smith. Cowdery, Page, and the five Whitmers were related by marriage.[11] Mark Twain later joked, "I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire Whitmer family had testified."[12]

Although Harris continued to testify to the truth of the Book of Mormon even when he was estranged from the church, at least during the early years of the movement, he "seems to have repeatedly admitted the internal, subjective nature of his visionary experience."[13]

After Smith's death, James Strang, claiming to be Smith's chosen successor, also produced buried plates and the testimony of eleven witnesses to their authenticity. All living witnesses to the Book of Mormon (except possibly Cowdery)—three of the Whitmers, Martin Harris, and Hiram Page—accepted at least briefly Strang's "leadership, angelic call, metal plates, and his translation of these plates as authentic."[14][/quote]

These criticisms do not absolutely refute the claims, but they are strong reasons to reserve belief in those claims until further evidence is provided.

Rationally, we do not lend belief to exceptional claims until exceptional evidence is given.
I certainly wish they had cameras or iPhones back then, but eyewitness accounts are about the best you get back then.

The funny thing is, those same people who doubt the witnesses that claim that they fear retaliation by God Himself if they do not testify of these things, are the same ones that believe eyewitnesses of anything negative against leaders of the church.
spaceship

Roseville, CA

#127692 Apr 5, 2014
Lehi wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a golden calf and you would have had to be there to fully understand why they did that.
BY was just a man speaking his thoughts, but it certainly isn't and wasn't the doctrine of the Mormon faith. We do believe Adam is the father of mankind, which makes sense, and we also believe he had a role in the creation of the world, that Adam is Michael. We believe that he was obedient and received all the blessings of god, which would be perfection and godliness. He is not "God" the Father and is not equal to Him.
FYI, the Journal of Discourses where this comes from was never recognized by the church as official because it came from notes taken in short hand and written with quill pen no less. Besides that, it was feared that the final documents may have been altered by those who wished harm to the Mormon Church.
If you want to do harm to the Mormon Church why not find something they are doing wrong today? That way we won't have to rely on "he said, she said" stuff from 180 years ago that no one can accurately verify since no one is alive that was there.
I see you have a persecution complex. If is said something that would harm the church I'm sure you would have an answer for it also.

Let me give you a example. If you have the truth and love your brothers then why did Mormons serve in Hitlers army to kill other Mormons from america. Does not the bible say that" anyone who says he loves the father and yet slays his brother is a liar."

What kind of religion who love the father slay his spiritual brothers at the command of a psycho. That not me harming your religion it is you and your brothers is it not?

So mormons follow man instead of the heavenly father. When does the BOM say you must follow man instead of God? Yet you have done and will do it again? Maybe you will not yourself. Yet the bible says a house divided against itself will not stand. Does that not prove that your religion is a lie?

You have a dilemma.

“Momma didn't raise no fool.”

Since: Feb 14

San Antonio, Tx.

#127693 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Absolutely they were. Being "saved" is something that happens in the heart. When someone turns from their sin, repents, and tried to right the wrongs they have done, it is evident they are on the path to salvation.
We do believe that Jesus meant it when He said to enter Heaven you must be baptized. I really don't think He meant: it'd be nice if you could get baptized. For those that are converted but never received that ordinance, baptisms for the dead (in proxy) are necessary to fulfill His commandment.
I was told baptism was a church ordinance, and have nothing to do with getting saved. It comes after you get saved. If you died before you got baptized you would still be saved. Is that not what you think Do whut?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127694 Apr 5, 2014
Yes and Amen wrote:
<quoted text>I wonder if....
You understand that the KJV tells of the Catholic church...
Changing the Laws, and times (removing the second commandment, AND changing the Sabbath from Sat-Sun)???
Now....
Do you also understand that the NT also warned of people preaching another Jesus???

Mormon's preach another Jesus.....(Not the one in the Bible)!

I truly hope you understand.... No one NEEDS Joseph Smith to be saved, and
Biblically Those With Joe.... are not saved!

If you think the KJV is corrupt... read the 1599 Geneva Bible, and learn Greek
if you need to!

Just telling you this, as you've said "Love never fails", and I want you saved!
Salvation does not come through Joseph Smith any more that it comes through Abraham. However, they were prophets that spoke God's messages.
We do not worship a different Jesus. I worship the exact same one that I did the first half of my life as a Protestant. I know much more about Him now though. And I am happy to not constrain His works to one group of people (who happen to be the source if the folks that wanted Him dead). Who do you suppose He went to when He said there were other sheep not of their fold that He had to go teach? Other planets? Or other continents? No one else in the Bible claim His post-resurrected visit. Did He lie?

I absolutely love the Geneva Bible. And I you really have read it, I hope you not the differences to the KJV. About 90% of it is the same, but there are things missing in the KJV that the Geneva Bible contains. One if the coolest thing about it is the illustrations that do not appear in the KJV. There is one of the baptismal font in Solomon's Temple that looked exactly like the one that Joseph was commanded to build in the temple that he was commanded to construct. But Joseph didn't have access to that illustration or the Geneva Bible. Interesting coincidence, or he was receiving instruction from the same God that commanded the first one built. I met a man in Dallas that owns an original Geneva Bible.$30k for that one. I loved it.

Our salvation comes through Jesus Christ. Don't believe the rumors you hear that we do not worship Him. The same that suffered in Gethsemane and died in Golgotha. I believed those rumors too for years. Learn from them what they believe, not the Internet, not your preacher. You'd never ask a Honda dealer about a Ford

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127695 Apr 5, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>Its just book of "Revelation".
I agree that 70 should consider he has a plank in his own eye before commenting on the LDS. There is little room for someone to dismiss the BOM on one hand while they embrace other books and "Truths" that are nutty as a squirrel with the other. Who are people like Apostle Amber, 70, curious and YaA to say that God/Jesus/angels have spoken to them but not to Joe Smith?
Naturally, I still don't think that "God" has spoken to anybody.
Yeah sorry. Typed too fast and ignored autocorrect.

These things were all foretold by the same God that they worship. Isaiah speaks about several things that would happen that have now been fulfilled by the beginnings of the LDS church. Jesus told us there would be an apostasy and then a restitution of all things before His return. He also told us about other sheep He was going to teach. Did we expect them not to write this stuff down when it happened to them?
spaceship

Roseville, CA

#127696 Apr 5, 2014
Lehi wrote:
<quoted text>
It was a golden calf and you would have had to be there to fully understand why they did that.
BY was just a man speaking his thoughts, but it certainly isn't and wasn't the doctrine of the Mormon faith. We do believe Adam is the father of mankind, which makes sense, and we also believe he had a role in the creation of the world, that Adam is Michael. We believe that he was obedient and received all the blessings of god, which would be perfection and godliness. He is not "God" the Father and is not equal to Him.
FYI, the Journal of Discourses where this comes from was never recognized by the church as official because it came from notes taken in short hand and written with quill pen no less. Besides that, it was feared that the final documents may have been altered by those who wished harm to the Mormon Church.
If you want to do harm to the Mormon Church why not find something they are doing wrong today? That way we won't have to rely on "he said, she said" stuff from 180 years ago that no one can accurately verify since no one is alive that was there.
Why would I have to be there.. Is it a secret the LDS church holds from me? If not tell me why after knowing the heavenly father that they chose a baby calf to worship instead?

“Momma didn't raise no fool.”

Since: Feb 14

San Antonio, Tx.

#127697 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I certainly wish they had cameras or iPhones back then, but eyewitness accounts are about the best you get back then.
The funny thing is, those same people who doubt the witnesses that claim that they fear retaliation by God Himself if they do not testify of these things, are the same ones that believe eyewitnesses of anything negative against leaders of the church.
An eyewitness will still stand up in a court of law today. "We have an eyewitness to the crime" is the most feared words a criminal can hear. Usually it makes them to start coming clean.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127698 Apr 5, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>I do not wish any disrespect to your Faith.

The Bible clearly states that anything outside of the Bible is false doctrine there is no other Gospel.

Galatians 1:8
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Jesus Christ was the FINAL prophet anyone who comes after Christ claiming truth is a false prophet. This is not my opinion it is Biblical scripture.

Again, I mean no disrespect to Mormons.
No worries. You won't offend me. Say or ask anything you wish. But I will politely challenge you. Hope you don't mind.

Show me where it says that anything outside the Bible is false doctrine please. None of the books written in the Bible were canonized together, so I'd like to know the verse please.

The Bible never says there will be no more prophets. And also wouldn't you think the offices of Apostle, Quorum of Seventy, Deacons, Priests, Teachers should have continued? He set them up and ordained them, but yet rarely will you find any of these callings in another Christian church. Wouldn't you think they should be there if He set them up? He must have thought it was important.
So Have you ever thought maybe this Restoration that Jesus spoke of was necessary because things like this were lost?

We do not believe we preach a different gospel than the one that Jesus began. We believe that His church fell away from His exact teachings (as He told us would happen).

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127699 Apr 5, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>Hi dw

You may well be right in that we've spoken before. I'll apologise for not recalling you - I guess the older I get, the worse my memory gets!

Yes, Jonah did get it wrong.

Which means he fails the definition of a prophet as set out in Deuteronomy.

If Moses also got it wrong, then he too fails that particular test.

Are you saying that what Deuteronomy 18:22 is wrong?
Prophets are men. They sin. We expect them to be wrong. Only when they are speaking revelation front God, in the name of God or His Son Jesus Christ, are they expected to be correct. This is what that scripture means. David had a great sin before God, but was never removed as prophet.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127700 Apr 5, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>Yes

Jesus spoke about the law and its place in Matthew 5:17-19 as well as in Luke 16:17

Paul contradicts Jesus in Romans 10:4

Probably in other scriptures too.
This doesn't contradict. This just means that there will be no more new laws after Christ.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127701 Apr 5, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>1 Corinthians 14:33 tells us that God is not the author of confusion.

Yet here we are with hundreds, perhaps thousands of different Christian denominations, sects and cults.

Perhaps if God had been a better communicator and made his message clearer, this would never have happened.
God was not the author of this confusion. Satan is. God gave us the things necessary for salvation. But there must be opposition in all things. Satan wants us all to be as miserable as he is. God gave us free will. Men make mistakes. Satan capitalizes on all our weaknesses.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127702 Apr 5, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>You're a Mormon?

You guys have got a different book written/inspired by creator of the universe than the ones the Christians use?
We use the KJV Bible. We also have another record of people on a different continent that also testifies that Jesus is the Christ. It is a history of this people as well as a record of Christ's visit to them after His resurrection.
It is what we consider to be the stick of Joseph (of Egypt).

The stick of Judah and the stick of Joseph will become one:Ezek. 37:15–19;

The stick of Judah is the Bible. We believe the stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon. The scriptures say these two will become one in the hand of the Messiah

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127703 Apr 5, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>More hypocrisy from the guy who is full of it.

The Protestants removed seven books from the original bible.
There are a total of 88 books mentioned in the Bible that we no longer have. Wonder what they said? What did they contain that we needed to know?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127704 Apr 5, 2014
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>So you're in agreement with Revelations when it says that we will all be judged by our works?
Of course. We are told in the NT that faith without works is dead. We are judged by our works as well as the thoughts in our minds and the deepest desires of our hearts. It's the whole package we are expected to devote to Him.

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