Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 149858 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127635 Apr 4, 2014
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>"do whut" Mr. LDS.
Somebody corrected you by letting you know it is the book of REVELATION with no s It is not REVELATIONS.
Ah, ok. I see. Thanks to autocorrect on that one. Sorry

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#127636 Apr 4, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
There are laws pertaining to the Aaronic priesthood (Moses' brother) or also called the Levitical Priesthood. When Christ came to earth, He taught us that He brought with Him the Holy Priesthood, also called the Melchizedec Priesthood. This is the higher law. The lesser priesthood focuses on temporal ordinances, while the higher priesthood focuses on eternal ordinances, such as the power to bind on earth and in Heaven as mentioned in the NT.
No sir, you cannot turn this into something it is not. Please do not put those words in my mouth.
what words did I put in your mouth?
I see no law that seems so hard to love. Are you saying they did not love the priesthood? That makes no sense.
Most Christians do not follow the laws or ideas of Jesus, so I am not sure why Christians keep acting as if Jews could not love the higher law.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127637 Apr 4, 2014
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>How come that no one saw these supposed golden plates except Joseph Smith?
Several saw these plates. They wrote their testimony and it is included at the beginning of the book.

Testimony of There Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That we, through the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, have seen the plates which contain this record, which is a record of the people of Nephi, and also of the Lamanites, their brethren, and also of the people of Jared, who came from the tower of which hath been spoken. And we also know that they have been translated by the gift and power of God, for his voice hath declared it unto us; wherefore we know of a surety that the work is true. And we also testify that we have seen the engravings which are upon the plates; and they have been shown unto us by the power of God, and not of man. And we declare with words of soberness, that an angel of God came down from heaven, and he brought and laid before our eyes, that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon; and we know that it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, that we beheld and bear record that these things are true. And it is marvelous in our eyes. Nevertheless, the voice of the Lord commanded us that we should bear record of it; wherefore, to be obedient unto the commandments of God, we bear testimony of these things. And we know that if we are faithful in Christ, we shall rid our garments of the blood of all men, and be found spotless before the judgment-seat of Christ, and shall dwell with him eternally in the heavens. And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.


Oliver Cowdery
David Whitmer
Martin Harris

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127638 Apr 4, 2014
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>How come that no one saw these supposed golden plates except Joseph Smith?
Testimony of the Eight Witnesses

Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.


Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127639 Apr 4, 2014
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>I don't know what you refer to as being a creepy thing but surely it does not look more creepy that the picture you have to represent you.
Puppets creep me out I guess.
Joe Dirt creeps you out? David Spade is funny to me. Sorry if it offends you. I thought the picture fit my name on here pretty well.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127640 Apr 4, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>what words did I put in your mouth?
I see no law that seems so hard to love. Are you saying they did not love the priesthood? That makes no sense.
Most Christians do not follow the laws or ideas of Jesus, so I am not sure why Christians keep acting as if Jews could not love the higher law.
Live, not love. They proved to God that they could not live worthy of the Holy priesthood almost immediately after being freed from bondage. Literally after seeing miracles performed that got them out of Egypt and saved their lives by providing food and water from seemingly nothing, they turned their back on God and created idols to worship. They were given strict temporal laws to follow to prepare their posterity for the Messiah to come and bring the higher priesthood and atone for their sins. They were given the lesser priesthood to officiate in the temporal ordinances and the law of sacrifice.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127641 Apr 4, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>what words did I put in your mouth?
I see no law that seems so hard to love. Are you saying they did not love the priesthood? That makes no sense.
Most Christians do not follow the laws or ideas of Jesus, so I am not sure why Christians keep acting as if Jews could not love the higher law.
The words that you put in my mouth was the anti semitism comment. I'm not against Jews in the least. Not believing as they do doesn't mean I am anti.

I will clarify a typo I made. I meant Live, not Love. My mistake. They do not live the higher laws right now that Jesus restored.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#127642 Apr 4, 2014
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>what words did I put in your mouth?
I see no law that seems so hard to love. Are you saying they did not love the priesthood? That makes no sense.
Most Christians do not follow the laws or ideas of Jesus, so I am not sure why Christians keep acting as if Jews could not love the higher law.
What laws or ideas of Jesus do you see that Christians do not follow?

“Hats Off to God”

Since: Jun 09

3rd Rock

#127643 Apr 4, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Puppets creep me out I guess.
Joe Dirt creeps you out? David Spade is funny to me. Sorry if it offends you. I thought the picture fit my name on here pretty well.
I like Joe Dirt.

Hang in there bro.
Miss Peabody

United States

#127644 Apr 4, 2014
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
"do whut" Mr. LDS.
Somebody corrected you by letting you know it is the book of REVELATION with no s It is not REVELATIONS.
How petty can you get?
get your act together

Wilmington, DE

#127645 Apr 4, 2014

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#127646 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
What laws or ideas of Jesus do you see that Christians do not follow?
Hey man, how's it going? I'm floored that this thread is still alive.

I wouldn't attack Christians for not following the teachings of Jesus to the letter, but I would definitely fault them for upholding cherry-picked teachings and rules of God in general while excluding others. For example, at least around here, a lot of them will cite Leviticus 20:13 (anti-gay) when they rant against marriage equality. Yet they totally ignore the rest of the hundreds of rules in Leviticus. I mean, we have witches that live here. Nobody is suggesting we stone them.

Why not?

The answer is that Christians do not live by the Bible. They live by their culture and the Bible is cited as being the basis for particular cultural notions when it is convenient and the Bible is ignored when it is not convenient.

Christian morality is not Biblical. If it was we'd see a vastly different country and one that would be even scarier.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#127647 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not that it didn't last. It was taken back up, to be distributed at a later date when the time is right in God's eyes. The entire book was not finished.
You do not have to have the original to prove if the substance holds truth. Our Bible proves that. We don't have anything penned by the original authors from the Bible, but we believe it is true. Truth is manifested by the Holy Ghost. Read it and ask God if it is true.
How convenient!
So.... the People that came before Joseph Smith has not been saved???

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#127648 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Testimony of the Eight Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith
Eyewitness testimony is not very reliable. It can be useful but it should never be taken as primary evidence otherwise we could land people in jail for crimes they did not commit pretty easily.

Consider UFO abductees for a moment. The internet is jam packed with personal, first-hand accounts of UFO encounters and many of them have multiple witnesses. Yet we have no good evidence that any of them are genuine. And most of us do not accept the testimonies as being evidence for alien abductions.

Why then would testimonies from an even more supernaturally-minded culture (the 19th century) sway us?

Going to the most basic starting point for checking into the claims of Smith's eye witnesses this is a short list of criticisms you can find on Wiki:

[quote]According to Grant Palmer, the Book of Mormon witnesses had a "nineteenth-century magical mindset" rather than "a rationalist perspective." They believed in what was called "second sight. Traditionally, this included the ability to see spirits and their dwelling places within the local hills and elsewhere."[7] A number of the witnesses possessed and used seer stones; Oliver Cowdery was a rodsman.[8] As Tufts University professor John L. Brooke has observed, many of the earliest Mormons were "very much attuned to the supernatural powers of witchcraft."[9] "Far removed from our own modern empiricism, the world view of the witnesses is difficult for us to grasp," and thus it is less impressive that "three signatories to the Book of Mormon saw and heard an angel."[10]

All the witnesses were family, close friends, or financial backers of Joseph Smith. Cowdery, Page, and the five Whitmers were related by marriage.[11] Mark Twain later joked, "I could not feel more satisfied and at rest if the entire Whitmer family had testified."[12]

Although Harris continued to testify to the truth of the Book of Mormon even when he was estranged from the church, at least during the early years of the movement, he "seems to have repeatedly admitted the internal, subjective nature of his visionary experience."[13]

After Smith's death, James Strang, claiming to be Smith's chosen successor, also produced buried plates and the testimony of eleven witnesses to their authenticity. All living witnesses to the Book of Mormon (except possibly Cowdery)—three of the Whitmers, Martin Harris, and Hiram Page—accepted at least briefly Strang's "leadership, angelic call, metal plates, and his translation of these plates as authentic."[14][/quote]

These criticisms do not absolutely refute the claims, but they are strong reasons to reserve belief in those claims until further evidence is provided.

Rationally, we do not lend belief to exceptional claims until exceptional evidence is given.
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#127649 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
What laws or ideas of Jesus do you see that Christians do not follow?
I wonder if....
You understand that the KJV tells of the Catholic church...
Changing the Laws, and times (removing the second commandment, AND changing the Sabbath from Sat-Sun)???
Now....
Do you also understand that the NT also warned of people preaching another Jesus???

Mormon's preach another Jesus.....(Not the one in the Bible)!

I truly hope you understand.... No one NEEDS Joseph Smith to be saved, and
Biblically Those With Joe.... are not saved!

If you think the KJV is corrupt... read the 1599 Geneva Bible, and learn Greek
if you need to!

Just telling you this, as you've said "Love never fails", and I want you saved!
Yes and Amen

Richmond, KY

#127650 Apr 5, 2014

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#127651 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't agree that The book of Revelations, or revelation in general is false doctrine. So which part did you agree with? The disputation of the BOM?
Its just book of "Revelation".
I agree that 70 should consider he has a plank in his own eye before commenting on the LDS. There is little room for someone to dismiss the BOM on one hand while they embrace other books and "Truths" that are nutty as a squirrel with the other. Who are people like Apostle Amber, 70, curious and YaA to say that God/Jesus/angels have spoken to them but not to Joe Smith?
Naturally, I still don't think that "God" has spoken to anybody.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#127653 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey there. I think we have spoken before but it's been a while.
I see your point, but I think the whole point of the story of Jonah and why it was important to be included as scripture is that even prophets can be prideful and wrong. Jonah did not speak the Lord's words, he spoke his own. He became prideful that his people were the Lord's people and that no one else deserved mercy from The Lord because they weren't following His commandments. He didn't think they deserved mercy so he spoke against them based on his own opinion. God disagreed and taught Jonah a hard lesson (and the rest of us) that even the wicked can change their ways and be forgiven.
Jonah was wrong, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a prophet. When a prophet speaks the Lord's words, he isn't wrong. Our job is to use the Holy Ghost to determine if the prophet is speaking of himself, or of God. If we strive to know and ask God, the Holy Ghost will confirm or not if these are God's words.
Prophets are fallible. They are men. Even Moses, one of the greatest prophets ever, was wrong once. And he didn't get to see the promised land because of it.
Hi dw

You may well be right in that we've spoken before. I'll apologise for not recalling you - I guess the older I get, the worse my memory gets!

Yes, Jonah did get it wrong.

Which means he fails the definition of a prophet as set out in Deuteronomy.

If Moses also got it wrong, then he too fails that particular test.

Are you saying that what Deuteronomy 18:22 is wrong?

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#127654 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Did Paul contradict Jesus?
Yes

Jesus spoke about the law and its place in Matthew 5:17-19 as well as in Luke 16:17

Paul contradicts Jesus in Romans 10:4

Probably in other scriptures too.

Since: Apr 08

Cambridge, UK

#127655 Apr 5, 2014
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
We all have the ability to recognize truth, even Gospel truth. But it is up to us to seek the religion/church that contains the most truth.
How I look at it is: Jesus' Gospel was the ultimate truth (because I believe He was the Son of God). He did not teach us everything about the Kingdom of Heaven, but told us that we would receive more wisdom when we ask of God. So on many doctrinal topics, we were left to figure it out. And from there, things got confused as doctrines and philosophies of men were mingled with His teachings. Men made decisions on what doctrines should be correct, and what should be scripture. Others disagreed and started new churches, and that trend has continued ever since. Finding the complete truth is extremely difficult now because of this. One has to completely rely on God to lead him to the correct path. It is up to us to put in the effort and ask, then shut up and listen for answers from Him, not from men.
1 Corinthians 14:33 tells us that God is not the author of confusion.

Yet here we are with hundreds, perhaps thousands of different Christian denominations, sects and cults.

Perhaps if God had been a better communicator and made his message clearer, this would never have happened.

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