Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 133,415

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
non believer

Roseville, CA

#115716 Oct 28, 2013
amanda wrote:
<quoted text>
Do I think it's wrong to help them out of a christian cult? Ahhhhhh.....by cult do you mean the churches that some of us voluntarily go to on Sundays? In that case....yeah, and it's pretty insulting while we are at it. But I'm sure you will go with the most over the top, drama filled option possible so.......Is it wrong to save a person from a christian cult that expects them to drink poison koolaid? No, that's heroic. Hit me up next time you actually save somebody from anything and I'll give you a cookie.
Typically, to try to adress your other questions, when I see these atheist vs Christian debates as you call them......it isn't really a "debate" per say. It's usually one attacking the other, and not for the point of learning something new or gaining mutual understanding. The point is typically to degrade that person and make them question their faith. Questioning would be okay it the intent were that innocent, but you and I both know it isn't. It's obnoxious, quite frankly.
But even debate would be fine if it ended there. It doesn't, and these people who soley identify themselves as atheists have made it their porpuse in life to destroy any remnant of our christian heritage and run the devout into hiding against the will of the majority.
So what's the difference, right? For one, Christianity is an actual major religion where the faithful believe that they must convert others to save their souls. I don't believe Atheists are trying to save anyone, and from what I see it's mostly an ego patting movement built from those who have been angered at some point by Christian relatives. Have Atheists been persecuted? Absolutely. Do two wrongs make a right.......no. At least Christians do a butt load of charity work, maybe if I saw atheists do anything other than b!tch I would no doubt feel differently.
Last but not least, LOL......I can't give you evidence of my opinion. Maybe you aren't well versed in fact vs opinion. Sorry, I think the whole militant Atheist movement is all consuming, petty, obnoxious, bratty, spoiled, senseless and a complete, hateful waste of time. That's my opinion, sorry if you don't like it.
So you are against atheist being converted to a belief in God? Did not the bible tell you that your fight is not with flesh and blood? Then why such hatred for atheist showing they are not against your freedom of religion. Your comments show that you harbor hate for them and unable to debate with words season with salt that the bible admonishes Christians to do.

What is militant about the Atheist? Ah.. so you fear man rather than God. That man is more powerful than God so your only defense to debate is to rely on histrionic rhetoric rather than a civil debate? Why should anyone think your really a true Christian? Showing no faith in bible on how to conduct yourself?

Sound like your the one who's militant. Instead of listing how atheist degrade Christians like i asked you for you instead have gave me all this prattle.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#115717 Oct 28, 2013
amanda wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you mean "non believers" refused to buckle? Who is this historical group of non believers that put an end to religious persecution? Please answer that before you make any other point.
I wasn't referring to an organised group of non-believers co-ordinating their resistance to religious persecution.

I was thinking more in terms of specific individuals whose thoughts and writings were hugely influential.

People like:

King John
Thomas Hobbes
Thomas Otway
Thomas Woolston
Jean Meslier
David Hume
Benjamin Franklin
Frederick the Great
Thomas Paine
Denus Diderot
etc,
non believer

Roseville, CA

#115718 Oct 28, 2013
amanda wrote:
Hey, non believer, if it makes you feel better I do believe that Christians created this monster. You know, scaring tbe hell out thier kids and such. I still think the monster is behaving like a child.
Could you be more specific? You seem to be projecting.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#115719 Oct 28, 2013
amanda wrote:
And khatru, to answer your question, YES this country was settled by Christians (protestants) from Europe.....they wanted to escape (drum roll) religious persecution! Also, it was also "founded" (I guess you are referring to the founding of our government) by people who were mostly protestant Christian, who didn't want to repeat the same mistakes that the country they had sought independence from had made.
Yes, I'm aware that a handful of them were not devout or spiritual, that still doesn't take away the fact that nearly everyone else with a hand in it and living at the time was. However, I still don't see what that has to do with you trying to diminish the faith of other posters here, right now.......today.
Yes, I remember reading how the early settlers were escaping from religious persecution and tyranny in Europe. So they came over to America and commenced their own persecution and tyranny against the indigenous inhabitants.

I don't want to take away anyone's faith and I don't really care what someone does in their religion )as long as it's legal). Hell, I'm even OK if they want to skin a rabbit, nail it to the bedpost and dance round it naked while howling at the moon. Who am I to interfere with something that may give meaning to someone's life?

Just on an aside:

The oppressively religious Spanish went into South and Central America. They went for gold, silver and souls. They raped, looted and smallpoxed their way through the native Indian civilisations and wiped them out. The Spanish seized whatever riches they could lay their sweaty little hands on and they went to the Spanish crown and church.

The Spanish were in South and Central America yet those lands fell way behind North America. Why was that?

It was because the less religious Brits were in North America.

The British brought ideas, not guns and swords. Ideas that weren't about instant plunder. Ideas involving land ownership and years of toil leading to a share in the process of law-making. In other words - real estate and representation. In the 17th century, up to 80% of Brits that came into the Chesapeake came to work as indentured servants. Leaving behind the poverty of home they came to work hard and eventually their period of service would be up and they became their own masters.

European migration quickly followed and during the British colonial period around 75% of European immigrants followed the British method. Social mobility. Thanks to the Brits, people could arrive in the New World with nothing, and in a few years become a land owner and a voter.

Compare that to the Spanish colonies where land ownership rights were only given to a tiny elite.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#115720 Oct 28, 2013
amanda wrote:
You do realize that persecution still exists, and that Christians and Jews are being murdered in the middle east right now? Do you think that's justice? A little eye for an eye?
My main issue with people who say the things you are saying is that you seem to believe that Christians living today should be punished for the things that people associated with Christianity did in the past. That it's perfectly fine for a christian to be persecuted for trying to spread thier "ju ju" because some christian did some bad thing some time ago. For some reason, some feel they are dishing out some justice for the sins of the past. Well, let me run this by you: white people enslaved blacks. Therefore, by your logic, it's perfectly okay to persecute those associate with whiteness living today for a crime they never commited. Is that true?
The Christians and Jews are being murdered in the countries where religion has the greatest influence.

In this case, the religion is Islam.

In secular Islamic nations tolerance of other religions is a lot higher.

Rewind many years to when the christian religion held sway in the west and you'll have found the Jews and non-believers being persecuted unto death.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#115721 Oct 28, 2013
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>

European migration quickly followed and during the British colonial period around 75% of European immigrants followed the British method. Social mobility. Thanks to the Brits, people could arrive in the New World with nothing, and in a few years become a land owner and a voter.
Yup , Those peaceloving Brits will long be remembered as The Good Samatitans of The New World.....NOT....
Britain, the 'nefarious trade' and slavery
Britain followed in the footsteps of the Portuguese in voyaging to the west coast of Africa and enslaving Africans. The British participation in what has come to be called the 'nefarious trade' was begun by Sir John Hawkins with the support and investment of Elizabeth I in 1573.(15) By fair means and foul, Britain outwitted its European rivals and became the premier trader in the enslaved from the seventeenth century onwards, and retained this position till 1807. Britain supplied enslaved African women, men and children to all European colonies in the Americas.

The 'Slave Coast' came to be dotted with European forts, their massive guns facing out to sea to warn off rival European slave traders. Each 'castle' incorporated prisons or 'barracoons' in which the enslaved women, children and men were kept, awaiting purchase by the traders, who could initially only reach the coast at those times of the year when the winds blew in the right direction. The prisons without sanitation, with little air must have been hell-holes in the humid coastal climates. The death rates are not known.

The trade became a very lucrative business. Bristol grew rich on it, then Liverpool. London also dealt in slaves as did some of the smaller British ports.(16) The specialised vessels were built in many British shipyards, but most were constructed in Liverpool. Laden with trade goods (guns and ammunition, rum, metal goods and cloth) they sailed to the 'Slave Coast', exchanged the goods for human beings, packed them into the vessels like sardines and sailed them across the Atlantic. On arrival, those left alive were oiled to make them look healthy and put on the auction block. Again, death rates (during the voyage) are unknown: one estimate, for the 1840s, is 25 per cent.

Plantation and mine-owners bought the Africans and more died in the process called 'seasoning'. In the British colonies the slaves were treated as non-human: they were 'chattels', to be worked to death as it was cheaper to purchase another slave than to keep one alive. Though seen as non-human, as many of the enslaved women were raped, clearly at one level they were recognised as at least rapeable human beings. There was no opprobrium attached to rape, torture, or to beating your slaves to death. The enslaved in the British colonies had no legal rights as they were not human they were not permitted to marry and couples and their children were often sold off separately.

Historian Paul Lovejoy has estimated that between 1701 and 1800 about 40 per cent of the approximately more than 6 million enslaved Africans were transported in British vessels.(It must be noted that this figure is believed by some to be a considerable underestimate.) Lovejoy estimated that well over 2 million more were exported between 1811 and 1867 again, many believe the numbers were much greater.(17)

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#115722 Oct 28, 2013
amanda wrote:
<quoted text>
Well thanks for totaly NOT answering the question. But, I guess it wasn't your question to answer.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/campbellsvill...
No, it was yours. You're welcome. It's the least I could do for a member of that oh-so-poor-us-we're-being-pers ecuted group that occupies 90%+ of all government offices and board room seats.
juggalo

United States

#115723 Oct 28, 2013
amanda wrote:
You do realize that persecution still exists, and that Christians and Jews are being murdered in the middle east right now? Do you think that's justice? A little eye for an eye?
My main issue with people who say the things you are saying is that you seem to believe that Christians living today should be punished for the things that people associated with Christianity did in the past. That it's perfectly fine for a christian to be persecuted for trying to spread thier "ju ju" because some christian did some bad thing some time ago. For some reason, some feel they are dishing out some justice for the sins of the past. Well, let me run this by you: white people enslaved blacks. Therefore, by your logic, it's perfectly okay to persecute those associate with whiteness living today for a crime they never commited. Is that true?


i hear ya ...that's like making some rediculous claim like "were all being punished for what adam and eve did" lol ...oh wait ...bad example

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#115724 Oct 28, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup , Those peaceloving Brits will long be remembered as The Good Samatitans of The New World.....NOT....
Britain, the 'nefarious trade' and slavery
Britain followed in the footsteps of the Portuguese in voyaging to the west coast of Africa and enslaving Africans. The British participation in what has come to be called the 'nefarious trade' was begun by Sir John Hawkins with the support and investment of Elizabeth I in 1573.(15) By fair means and foul, Britain outwitted its European rivals and became the premier trader in the enslaved from the seventeenth century onwards, and retained this position till 1807. Britain supplied enslaved African women, men and children to all European colonies in the Americas.
The 'Slave Coast' came to be dotted with European forts, their massive guns facing out to sea to warn off rival European slave traders. Each 'castle' incorporated prisons or 'barracoons' in which the enslaved women, children and men were kept, awaiting purchase by the traders, who could initially only reach the coast at those times of the year when the winds blew in the right direction. The prisons without sanitation, with little air must have been hell-holes in the humid coastal climates. The death rates are not known.
The trade became a very lucrative business. Bristol grew rich on it, then Liverpool. London also dealt in slaves as did some of the smaller British ports.(16) The specialised vessels were built in many British shipyards, but most were constructed in Liverpool. Laden with trade goods (guns and ammunition, rum, metal goods and cloth) they sailed to the 'Slave Coast', exchanged the goods for human beings, packed them into the vessels like sardines and sailed them across the Atlantic. On arrival, those left alive were oiled to make them look healthy and put on the auction block. Again, death rates (during the voyage) are unknown: one estimate, for the 1840s, is 25 per cent.
Plantation and mine-owners bought the Africans and more died in the process called 'seasoning'. In the British colonies the slaves were treated as non-human: they were 'chattels', to be worked to death as it was cheaper to purchase another slave than to keep one alive. Though seen as non-human, as many of the enslaved women were raped, clearly at one level they were recognised as at least rapeable human beings. There was no opprobrium attached to rape, torture, or to beating your slaves to death. The enslaved in the British colonies had no legal rights as they were not human they were not permitted to marry and couples and their children were often sold off separately.
Historian Paul Lovejoy has estimated that between 1701 and 1800 about 40 per cent of the approximately more than 6 million enslaved Africans were transported in British vessels.(It must be noted that this figure is believed by some to be a considerable underestimate.) Lovejoy estimated that well over 2 million more were exported between 1811 and 1867 again, many believe the numbers were much greater.(17)
It's the uber-logic of "I know you are and so am I" defense again, curious? The American pot calling the British kettle black? Tell me, why is the District of Columbia no longer a square?

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

#115725 Oct 28, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup , Those peaceloving Brits will long be remembered as The Good Samatitans of The New World.....NOT....
Britain, the 'nefarious trade' and slavery
Britain followed in the footsteps of the Portuguese in voyaging to the west coast of Africa and enslaving Africans. <blah, blah, blah...>
Historian Paul Lovejoy has estimated that between 1701 and 1800 about 40 per cent of the approximately more than 6 million enslaved Africans were transported in British vessels.(It must be noted that this figure is believed by some to be a considerable underestimate.) Lovejoy estimated that well over 2 million more were exported between 1811 and 1867 again, many believe the numbers were much greater.(17)
Yep, good old Christian values.
The babble condones and encourages slavery. It tells you when you can forcable take them (usually after killing all the men), which tribes (any tribe of another faith is fair game, even other Hebrews but you have to treat them better than strangers), and right down to how badly you are allowed to beat them.

Owning another person is wrong, whether it is today, 200 years ago, or 2000 years ago.
It is immoral. But the babble says it is acceptable.
Just one more reason to reject Christianity.
non believer

Roseville, CA

#115726 Oct 28, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/campbellsvill...
No, it was yours. You're welcome. It's the least I could do for a member of that oh-so-poor-us-we're-being-pers ecuted group that occupies 90%+ of all government offices and board room seats.
They are prosecuted in large numbers ,just saying.

Christians, on the other hand, who make up 81% of the population make up 84% of the prison population.
Known Fact

Somerset, KY

#115727 Oct 28, 2013
Hey fake Known Fact, they have finally made a movie about the JWs.

"TRUTH BE TOLD lifts the veil on the seemingly benign Jehovah's Witnesses religion to expose a profit-driven, isolationist culture characterized by fear, totalitarian corporate leadership, intellectual & spiritual intimidation, suspension of critical thinking, failed prophecies, doctrinal inconsistency and improper handling of physical and sexual abuse allegations within the church. See former Jehovah's Witnesses candidly discuss growing up inside the religion. They reveal experiences including the effects of proselytizing door-to-door, shunning non-observant family and friends, suffering the discouragement of pursuing dreams like gaining a higher education, missing other societal holidays and customs. And more...

http://www.tugg.com/events/6195

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#115728 Oct 28, 2013
non believer wrote:
<quoted text>
They are prosecuted in large numbers ,just saying.
Christians, on the other hand, who make up 81% of the population make up 84% of the prison population.
Shiites bomb Sunnis, Hindus attack Buddhists, dogs chase cats, hawks eat snakes and I don't do any of those things. Just sayin'. Hakuna matata
curious

Ocoee, FL

#115729 Oct 28, 2013
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, good old Christian values.
The babble condones and encourages slavery. It tells you when you can forcable take them (usually after killing all the men), which tribes (any tribe of another faith is fair game, even other Hebrews but you have to treat them better than strangers), and right down to how badly you are allowed to beat them.
Owning another person is wrong, whether it is today, 200 years ago, or 2000 years ago.
It is immoral. But the babble says it is acceptable.
Just one more reason to reject Christianity.
Yes Witchetty , It is Christians who spearheaded the movements to abolish slavcey in Britain and America.
It is Atheism that enslaved the minds and bodies of it's citizens and brutally murdered them in China, Russia ,Cambodia and Korea.
Known Fact

Somerset, KY

#115730 Oct 28, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup , Those peaceloving Brits will long be remembered as The Good Samatitans of The New World.....NOT....
Britain, the 'nefarious trade' and slavery
Britain followed in the footsteps of the Portuguese in voyaging to the west coast of Africa and enslaving Africans. The British participation in what has come to be called the 'nefarious trade' was begun by Sir John Hawkins with the support and investment of Elizabeth I in 1573.(15) By fair means and foul, Britain outwitted its European rivals and became the premier trader in the enslaved from the seventeenth century onwards, and retained this position till 1807. Britain supplied enslaved African women, men and children to all European colonies in the Americas.
The 'Slave Coast' came to be dotted with European forts, their massive guns facing out to sea to warn off rival European slave traders. Each 'castle' incorporated prisons or 'barracoons' in which the enslaved women, children and men were kept, awaiting purchase by the traders, who could initially only reach the coast at those times of the year when the winds blew in the right direction. The prisons without sanitation, with little air must have been hell-holes in the humid coastal climates. The death rates are not known.
The trade became a very lucrative business. Bristol grew rich on it, then Liverpool. London also dealt in slaves as did some of the smaller British ports.(16) The specialised vessels were built in many British shipyards, but most were constructed in Liverpool. Laden with trade goods (guns and ammunition, rum, metal goods and cloth) they sailed to the 'Slave Coast', exchanged the goods for human beings, packed them into the vessels like sardines and sailed them across the Atlantic. On arrival, those left alive were oiled to make them look healthy and put on the auction block. Again, death rates (during the voyage) are unknown: one estimate, for the 1840s, is 25 per cent.
Plantation and mine-owners bought the Africans and more died in the process called 'seasoning'. In the British colonies the slaves were treated as non-human: they were 'chattels', to be worked to death as it was cheaper to purchase another slave than to keep one alive. Though seen as non-human, as many of the enslaved women were raped, clearly at one level they were recognised as at least rapeable human beings. There was no opprobrium attached to rape, torture, or to beating your slaves to death. The enslaved in the British colonies had no legal rights as they were not human they were not permitted to marry and couples and their children were often sold off separately.
Historian Paul Lovejoy has estimated that between 1701 and 1800 about 40 per cent of the approximately more than 6 million enslaved Africans were transported in British vessels.(It must be noted that this figure is believed by some to be a considerable underestimate.) Lovejoy estimated that well over 2 million more were exported between 1811 and 1867 again, many believe the numbers were much greater.(17)
And you know what the first slave ship to the America's was called? The Good Jesus. Makes perfect sense to me.
GetIt

Nicholasville, KY

#115731 Oct 28, 2013
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
And you know what the first slave ship to the America's was called? The Good Jesus. Makes perfect sense to me.
healthcare.gov 1-800-318-2596

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#115732 Oct 28, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes Witchetty , It is Christians who spearheaded the movements to abolish slavcey in Britain and America.
It is Atheism that enslaved the minds and bodies of it's citizens and brutally murdered them in China, Russia ,Cambodia and Korea.
Yes curious, it is the modern Christians who rewrite history to suit their "consciences".
Don't try to claim that the Quakers in any way shared the attitudes of the Southern Baptists.
Personally, I think y'all could have dropped the tit-for-tat about conquistadors, communism, crusades, Nazis, inquisition, socialism, slavery, imperialism/colonialism, etc. a long time ago.
It wasn't atheism that did those things in Asia, and it wasn't Christianity that stole native Americans' lands, broke almost every treaty, slaughtered their food source and infected them with western European diseases. It was simply questing for acquisition and power over others. Not religion, not politics. Nothing more or less mysterious than human avarice and questing for domination and control, against which religions of any flavor have proven to be rather poor vaccines.
non believer

Roseville, CA

#115733 Oct 28, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes Witchetty , It is Christians who spearheaded the movements to abolish slavcey in Britain and America.
It is Atheism that enslaved the minds and bodies of it's citizens and brutally murdered them in China, Russia ,Cambodia and Korea.
You choose to be a slave. Why cannot one choose to be secular and atheist. Are you trying to take away our freewill?

James:1
I, James, am a slave of God and the Master Jesus.

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Somerset, KY

#115734 Oct 28, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Shiites bomb Sunnis, Hindus attack Buddhists, dogs chase cats, hawks eat snakes and I don't do any of those things. Just sayin'. Hakuna matata
Snake is really good though...

“Speaker of Mountain Wisdom....”

Since: Jan 10

Somerset, KY

#115735 Oct 28, 2013
GetIt wrote:
<quoted text> healthcare.gov 1-800-318-2596
You left out "Or Else!!" That's 1-800=F(1)UCK-YO

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