Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 Full story: The Courier-Journal 131,134

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Full Story
GWB

Roseville, CA

#108304 Jul 12, 2013
correction.. in tongues

Do Mormons believe speaking in tongues "glossolalia" also? If not then why not?

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108305 Jul 13, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist blogger Leah Libresco converts to Christianity
By Louis Casiano, msnbc.com
A prominent atheist blogger says she has converted to Christianity.
Leah Libresco made the announcement on Monday on her Patheos blog, "Unequally Yoked." The blog post, titled "This is my last post for the Patheos Atheist Portal," details how Libresco came to her decision.
She said she struggled with moral law, exploring where it comes from and what's behind it. As an atheist, she states that friends told her that her philosophy was unsustainable.
"I was ready to admit that there were parts of Christianity and Catholicism that seemed like a pretty good match for the bits of my moral system that I was most sure of, while meanwhile my own philosophy was pretty kludged together and not particularly satisfactory," she wrote.
She goes back to the night before Palm Sunday, where after a debate on religion she then had a discussion with a friend about morality.
After a back-and-forth where her friend asked her to make an argument about where moral law comes from, she couldn't think of any. She then realized that it had to come from something like a person or being.
"I believed that the Moral Law wasn’t just a Platonic truth, abstract and distant. It turns out I actually believed it was some kind of Person, as well as Truth. And there was one religion that seemed like the most promising way to reach back to that living Truth," she writes.
OK. So you drop the other discussion and bring up a different one?

If you're trying to prove that some atheists later become religious, then we have no argument. It does happen. You see this sort of thing a lot with people who are confused or whose worldview is not well hashed out.

Studies show that people with firm beliefs actually fare better in terms of psychological health than people with wishy-washy beliefs. In that sense a hardcore Fundie, while insane, is probably happy and emotionally healthy.

But that does not mean god is real. That's an entirely different question. If you are too scared of reality to live without the fairy tale of religion then by all means embrace your faith. I don't care.

Just don't vote idiots into office who want to gut the teaching of science or shove their version of god down my throat. That's all.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108306 Jul 13, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Just as plausible as any other belief
In a sense, if we're talking about supernatural beliefs, you are correct. It is no more crazy to believe that Smith was shown to an ancient document by a magical creature than it is to believe that a superpowerful being created the world in 6 days.

But if we juxtapose these beliefs against the actual evidence and a realistic worldview they do in fact pale by comparison.

I believe Smith was a fraud. My belief is far more plausible than your belief because it does not introduce magic. We know frauds exist, we do not know angels exist. And there is no such thing as Reformed Egyptian.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108307 Jul 13, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
OK. So you drop the other discussion and bring up a different one?
If you're trying to prove that some atheists later become religious, then we have no argument. It does happen. You see this sort of thing a lot with people who are confused or whose worldview is not well hashed out.
Studies show that people with firm beliefs actually fare better in terms of psychological health than people with wishy-washy beliefs. In that sense a hardcore Fundie, while insane, is probably happy and emotionally healthy.
But that does not mean god is real. That's an entirely different question. If you are too scared of reality to live without the fairy tale of religion then by all means embrace your faith. I don't care.
Just don't vote idiots into office who want to gut the teaching of science or shove their version of god down my throat. That's all.
God is real whether you believe in him or not.
The inane rantings of Atheists,hoping that by such,they can make God disaooear,are fruitless.
I believe that Christ is the son of God.
I believe he died for our sins,I believe God brought him back to life.
Christ said it and the Apostles were witnesses.
The Gospels tells their version of the events that they experienced...
They have no reason to have lied or to have made up those events.
We are not basing our beliefs on nonwitnessed events that supposedly occured billions of years ago someplace on earth that no one can identify,either the time,place or the circumstances..
You can go on deceiving yourself about how nothing can make something out of nothing.
I will go through this life believing that my God lives and that through Christ all was created.
GWB

Roseville, CA

#108308 Jul 13, 2013
Mary Aguilar shares her story, victim of domestic violence by Jehovah's Witness.

My name is Mary Aguilar. I was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the early 70's and 80's and a victim of domestic violence. My husband was a Witness too, and still is. I spoke to elders several times about his violent behavior. Their excuse was that I wasn't doing enough. I wasn't a good wife. I didn't pray enough. I wondered how they knew how much I prayed. After several attempts to talk to the elders, nothing was done and I had nowhere to turn.

The abuse and beatings from him were so bad that once my face was unrecognizable, and he turned my children against me. I remember one time he took me to San Diego, about 60 miles away, and he threw me out of the car and left me there for an hour with no money, nothing. I was petrified. So much for Christian brotherly love!

more of this story see link...

http://www.watchtowerdocuments.com/stories/ma...

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#108309 Jul 13, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Former leading atheist argues for the existence of God
A review of There is a God: How The World’s Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind by Antony Flew with Roy Varghese
. Antony Flew’s rejection of atheism is a nightmare for skeptics, because the most influential atheistic philosopher of the twentieth century is rather harder to dismiss out-of-hand. Flew documents this intellectual process in There is a God.
From atheism to theismWhat I think the DNA material has done is that it has shown, by the almost unbelievable complexity of the arrangements which are needed to produce (life), that intelligence must have been involved in getting these extraordinarily diverse elements to work together.—Antony Flew
Flew concentrated on other philosophical areas for the next several decades, only revisiting atheistic topics to debate people based on his previous works. He took part in cordial debates with theists, which included one in 1985 with philosopher and theologian Dr Gary Habermas on the most important reported deed of all, the proposition that Jesus Christ conquered death itself.1 This debate was held in Dallas in front of a crowd of three thousand people. It was judged by two panels of experts from leading American universities: one panel comprised five philosophers who were asked to judge the content of the debate, and the other comprised five professional debate judges who were asked to judge the quality of the arguments.
Four of the five on the philosophers panel voted that Habermas had won, i.e. the case he made for the Resurrection was stronger than Flew’s attempts to refute it, and one scored it a draw. The panel of professional debate judges voted three to two to Habermas.
At the most recent debate in 2004, at New York University, he declared that he ‘now accepted the existence of a God’(p. 74). In that debate, he said that he believed that the origin of life points to a creative Intelligence,
Did you have a point? Does this prove anything? If you are going to cut and paste propaganda, st least use it to make a point.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#108310 Jul 13, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah. They tend to forget about all the times they prayed for something and it didn't happen. But that one time...that one time they prayed for something and something *kinda* happened is proof.
Prayer works as often as coincidence or the equivalency of the amount of effort you put into make the wish come true.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#108311 Jul 13, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist blogger Leah Libresco converts to Christianity
By Louis Casiano, msnbc.com
A prominent atheist blogger says she has converted to Christianity.
Leah Libresco made the announcement on Monday on her Patheos blog, "Unequally Yoked." The blog post, titled "This is my last post for the Patheos Atheist Portal," details how Libresco came to her decision.
She said she struggled with moral law, exploring where it comes from and what's behind it. As an atheist, she states that friends told her that her philosophy was unsustainable.
"I was ready to admit that there were parts of Christianity and Catholicism that seemed like a pretty good match for the bits of my moral system that I was most sure of, while meanwhile my own philosophy was pretty kludged together and not particularly satisfactory," she wrote.
She goes back to the night before Palm Sunday, where after a debate on religion she then had a discussion with a friend about morality.
After a back-and-forth where her friend asked her to make an argument about where moral law comes from, she couldn't think of any. She then realized that it had to come from something like a person or being.
"I believed that the Moral Law wasn’t just a Platonic truth, abstract and distant. It turns out I actually believed it was some kind of Person, as well as Truth. And there was one religion that seemed like the most promising way to reach back to that living Truth," she writes.
So because their is no "moral law", god must exist?
Absolutes are few. Even the bible cant make up its mind between an eye for an eye and turning the other cheek.
Funny how you point to what atheists say as evidence for a truth.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#108312 Jul 13, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Just as plausible as any other belief
It is plausible no god exists.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#108313 Jul 13, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
God is real whether you believe in him or not.
The inane rantings of Atheists,hoping that by such,they can make God disaooear,are fruitless.
I believe that Christ is the son of God.
I believe he died for our sins,I believe God brought him back to life.
Christ said it and the Apostles were witnesses.
The Gospels tells their version of the events that they experienced...
They have no reason to have lied or to have made up those events.
We are not basing our beliefs on nonwitnessed events that supposedly occured billions of years ago someplace on earth that no one can identify,either the time,place or the circumstances..
You can go on deceiving yourself about how nothing can make something out of nothing.
I will go through this life believing that my God lives and that through Christ all was created.
Denying no motive for lying is a large reason I cannot take a believer seriously.
I can think of many motives. Just look at all the various claims of other religions. What their motive is could very well be the same motive as the writers of the bible. Both cannot be telling absolute truth.
Men lie and they do so often.
You cannot even know if the words in the bible are of the persons claimed to be writing them. Their are zero original copies.
You accept a story that has no evidence of occurring.

Btw, I do not believe nothing made anything. I keep pointing this out but you keep ignoring it.
Denial is the key to faith.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#108314 Jul 13, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
God is real whether you believe in him or not.
God might not be real, no matter how much you believe the contrary.

Note how my statement is honest and yours is but a claim one cannot really know.
If you cannot understand the difference, then I can understand why you believe the claims of the bible without question.

“Breaking the spell ”

Since: Dec 10

of the puppet master

#108315 Jul 13, 2013
How stupid can you be wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, ok....
Lets have a vote!
Polls close Saturday at midnight!
Question: Who on here thinks my use of "Tard" as in "Willfully ignorant" is over the top?
Yes, or No!
I'll tally the votes Sunday morning, and the Will of the People
will be done! Ok?
PS... No dead people, Illegal immigrants, or pets can vote
on this, as it is NOT an Election of Government officials!
Why not use the phrase, "willfully ignorant"? If you wish to mean what you say, then use the words that are clear.
I am not sure if "tard" is even a word. I am pretty sure it is just slang. Slang that someone refuses to even try to logically show as descriptive of your intended meaning. You are being willfully ignorant to this word.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108316 Jul 13, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Did you have a point? Does this prove anything? If you are going to cut and paste propaganda, st least use it to make a point.
I post what I want to post and I do not have to account to you for what I post.
If you have a problem with an Atheist becoming a believer,then you need to raise that issue with the Atheist in question
Moreover,it seems that blessing may be occuring more often than you'd like.
25% of Atheists attend religious services on a weekly basis.
Many raised as Atheists,when reaching adulthood,become believers.
Thank God for that.
Unfortunately,there is a higher rate of suicide,drug abuse and other mental issues associated with unbelief.
Those are issueds that need be addressed
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108317 Jul 13, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>So because their is no "moral law", god must exist?
Absolutes are few. Even the bible cant make up its mind between an eye for an eye and turning the other cheek.
Funny how you point to what atheists say as evidence for a truth.
Mike,,If you have a problem with the former Atheist blogger having converted to Christianity and the reasons why she did so,then,you need address her ,not me.
I know that you are upset with her and Antony Flew
Facts are facts.
There are those,who,in spite of living in darkness,ultimately,find the light....
Seems they have been able to find that which you have been unable to grasp.
Keep looking,they found it and so can you.
curious

Ocoee, FL

#108318 Jul 13, 2013
Mike Duquette wrote:
<quoted text>Denying no motive for lying is a large reason I cannot take a believer seriously.
I can think of many motives. Just look at all the various claims of other religions. What their motive is could very well be the same motive as the writers of the bible. Both cannot be telling absolute truth.
Men lie and they do so often.
You cannot even know if the words in the bible are of the persons claimed to be writing them. Their are zero original copies.
You accept a story that has no evidence of occurring.
Btw, I do not believe nothing made anything. I keep pointing this out but you keep ignoring it.
Denial is the key to faith.
Suffice it to say that foolishness is the key to unbelief.
I know precisely what my faith is based on...
I also know that it is not based on some opinions of events that supposedly occured billions of years ago,no one knows where,how or why...
No one has ever claimed to have witnessed these events.
Based on fantasies that proclaim that the Universe,our planet and life as we know it is one big unexplainable accident for which someday we may have an explanation,,or not,,,
Faith in foolishness is something my mind will not accept.
My God lives,So does my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ..
That is what I believe,based on my personal experience.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108320 Jul 14, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
God is real whether you believe in him or not.
The inane rantings of Atheists,hoping that by such,they can make God disaooear,are fruitless.
I believe that Christ is the son of God.
I believe he died for our sins,I believe God brought him back to life.
Christ said it and the Apostles were witnesses.
The Gospels tells their version of the events that they experienced...
They have no reason to have lied or to have made up those events.
We are not basing our beliefs on nonwitnessed events that supposedly occured billions of years ago someplace on earth that no one can identify,either the time,place or the circumstances..
You can go on deceiving yourself about how nothing can make something out of nothing.
I will go through this life believing that my God lives and that through Christ all was created.
I'm not trying to make god "disaooear", whatever the hell that means. I don't believe in gods so I really don't care.

Regarding Jesus, why do you think "they have no reason to lie" is good evidence?

If you believe then OK. I don't really care. But if you also make actual claims about reality (MY reality too) and you vote in such a way as to promote your claims then I do care. Because this is my world too and my kids live in it.

So if your claims fail the test of reason, I reject them. Pretty simple.

You want me to believe a guy died, rose again, and performed magic spells simply because it is written in an old book?

Hell no. That wouldn't stand up to clown court.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#108321 Jul 14, 2013
"I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
...Stephen F Roberts

I love this quote because it nicely sums up one of the most rational reasons for rejecting theism.

A more full-fleshed version of it is The Outsider Test for Faith:

"In chapter 1, I wrote:“If a child, say one who’d just watched Disney’s Hercules, asked me if the Greek gods are real, I’d say ‘no’ rather than hedge my bets by saying I lack a belief in them. And I don’t see any reason to treat other gods any differently.” In this chapter, I’m going to say a lot more about that point.
This is actually one of the main reasons I became an atheist. I realized there was no more reason to believe in the Christian god, or even a deist god, than the gods of ancient Greece, and that was that. I’m tempted to say that I realized that since I thought those gods were pretty unlikely, I should think the Christian god is pretty unlikely, but it was even simpler than that. What really happened is that I realized I couldn’t believe in the Christian god with no more reasons than I had for believing in the Greek gods."

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/hallq/2012/05/th...

I would challenge any believer to put their own faith to the Outsider Test. The sad part is they usually claim it passes. Somehow belief in a magic zombie is rational while belief in Allah is irrational.
Yes and Amen

Winchester, KY

#108322 Jul 14, 2013
aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
If there are "no atheists in foxholes," then it must also be true that you'll never find a dead Christian in a foxhole who didn't pray that he wasn't going to die.
Silly woman...
We all know we (this flesh) is going to die...
It is the soul, and where it goes, that we care about...
We fear no death, but the death of the soul!
Yes and Amen

Winchester, KY

#108323 Jul 14, 2013
ProvenScience wrote:
<quoted text>
True there too (as any HONEST person with a SANE mind would Have to admit to, because as a matter of FACT, the first thing ANY logical sane person would seemingly learn and acknowledge, is how LITTLE "One" person can actually "know" when there is *always* so MUCH to learn about!!)
True!
You hit a nerve with this post...
You got 6 nuts, 5 clueless, and 4 spam!
I guess these people are those that WANT to believe
Chocolate milk comes from brown cows, even when
it's been proven that Chocolate comes from a plant!
Yes and Amen

Winchester, KY

#108324 Jul 14, 2013
curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist blogger Leah Libresco converts to Christianity
By Louis Casiano, msnbc.com
A prominent atheist blogger says she has converted to Christianity.
Leah Libresco made the announcement on Monday on her Patheos blog, "Unequally Yoked." The blog post, titled "This is my last post for the Patheos Atheist Portal," details how Libresco came to her decision.
She said she struggled with moral law, exploring where it comes from and what's behind it. As an atheist, she states that friends told her that her philosophy was unsustainable.
"I was ready to admit that there were parts of Christianity and Catholicism that seemed like a pretty good match for the bits of my moral system that I was most sure of, while meanwhile my own philosophy was pretty kludged together and not particularly satisfactory," she wrote.
She goes back to the night before Palm Sunday, where after a debate on religion she then had a discussion with a friend about morality.
After a back-and-forth where her friend asked her to make an argument about where moral law comes from, she couldn't think of any. She then realized that it had to come from something like a person or being.
"I believed that the Moral Law wasn’t just a Platonic truth, abstract and distant. It turns out I actually believed it was some kind of Person, as well as Truth. And there was one religion that seemed like the most promising way to reach back to that living Truth," she writes.
Praise God!
Another one comes to their senses...
Just 1,500,564,764,643... more to go!
Amen

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