Bible study rules for public schools proposed

Feb 10, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Courier-Journal

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

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95,141 - 95,160 of 128,589 Comments Last updated 30 min ago
curious

Winter Garden, FL

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#99598
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Ok you want me to believe that after a talking snake made a woman eat fruit there was an ark with two of every kind and a super flood than a virgin got pregnant so the god that demanded animal sacrifice and killing babies turned in to a loving god and you are better than every one else?
Next you will want us to believe that you are not a drug abuser
Hey,Chromiuman,not only are you not addressing the issues that I posted,but in your confusion,you accidentally used one of your other Nick names.
You make a good case for evolution,you have evolved from one to many nicknames
........BANG.......
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

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#99599
Apr 13, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if you want to be a stick in the mud, I suppose I could have posted this instead...
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/pa...
Why thank you, for picking up my slack, mine eyes appreciate that.:-)
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

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#99600
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>LOL, nice try but it is a lie.
The founding fathers, after seeing how the church in England slaughtered people saw fit to protect the people from the church.
Have you read the letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury (CT) Baptists?
Go back a few hundred pages, it's in this thread somewhere-at LEAST once, if not more than that. One more time posting it- won't hurt

Read it again. Slowly and with a not so closed mind.

One of the first things you should notice, aside from written eloquence, is the absence of venom, when addressing others.

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To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.

Courtesy of The Library of Congress @

http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

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#99601
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>LOL, nice try but it is a lie.
The founding fathers, after seeing how the church in England slaughtered people saw fit to protect the people from the church.
Now, should you wish to discuss the sociological aspects of Jefferson's own apparent ideals, the "good founding father T Jefferson" in mine opinion, could've used a bit of polishing in granting true freedom to ALL people.
Of course, that was then, and this now...but really if you consider the scenerio, Jefferson had himself quite a little "cult" of his own going on then, now didn't he.

:-)
TruthIs

East Bernstadt, KY

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#99602
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>LOL, nice try but it is a lie.
The founding fathers, after seeing how the church in England slaughtered people saw fit to protect the people from the church.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeo...
Oxymoron

Glasgow, KY

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#99603
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Good Speech by Glen Beck

http://www.youtube.com/watch...
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#99604
Apr 13, 2013
 
Known Fact wrote:
<quoted text>
Pose your questions to:
The Watchtower
25 Columbia Heights
Brooklyn, NY 11201
That way you can get your answer straight from their mouth!
Why do they need someone like you, if we have to get answers from the Watchtower?

Be a real soldier of Christ and Charlie McCarthy the question Nephilim ask of you.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#99605
Apr 13, 2013
 
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously. Adam and Eve were the first audience and Satan was the first ventriloquist. Makes one wonder if Charlie McCarthy's mitochondrial DNA might be traced back to the tree of knowledge...?
Now that's funny. I have to watch his comedy on youtube.

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

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#99607
Apr 13, 2013
 
Oxymoron wrote:
Good Speech by Glen Beck
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Glen Beck make a "good speech?"
The man couldn't make a good.....oh, nevermind.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#99608
Apr 13, 2013
 

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curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey,Chromiuman,not only are you not addressing the issues that I posted,but in your confusion,you accidentally used one of your other Nick names.
You make a good case for evolution,you have evolved from one to many nicknames
........BANG.......
1) I would gladly address your "issues" if you would state them rationally and clearly. Aside from that, I am not an anger management counselor. pfffft.
2) I'm not SP and I post with no other account. Mind your 9th commandment.
3) "...BANG...?" As in the discharge of a firearm? Perhaps the Topix moderators had a GOOD REASON for deleting your post(s)? Pardon me if I decline to make my location un-hidden.
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

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#99609
Apr 13, 2013
 

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aWitchintheWoods wrote:
<quoted text>
Glen Beck make a "good speech?"
The man couldn't make a good.....oh, nevermind.
He sounds like a suspect on the "First 48" making up a story on the fly and hopes everyone will believe it.

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#99610
Apr 13, 2013
 

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TruthIs wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, should you wish to discuss the sociological aspects of Jefferson's own apparent ideals, the "good founding father T Jefferson" in mine opinion, could've used a bit of polishing in granting true freedom to ALL people.
Of course, that was then, and this now...but really if you consider the scenerio, Jefferson had himself quite a little "cult" of his own going on then, now didn't he.
:-)
Actually, Jefferson did a bit of a political balancing act with this letter. The Danbury Baptist Association felt that Connecticut adopting Congregationalism as the official state religion placed them in a position of discrimination.
Jefferson's first draft of the letter explained that he was prohibited from "even occasional performances of devotion" unlike, he said, the way it is "practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church."

Is there something in this that leads you to believe Jefferson intended "separation of church and state" to denote anything more or less than government neutrality regarding religion?
Where do you jump from that to a Jeffersonian "cult?"

“See how you are?”

Since: Jul 12

Earth

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#99611
Apr 13, 2013
 

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why dont you know wrote:
One of the reasons the first amendment was established was to protect religion from the government. But now it's been turned on it's head and is used to protect government from religion. And there is no separation of church and state. That phrase came from a private letter from Thomas Jefferson to a Baptist minister and is not found in government documents but is used now as a reason to be hostile to religion. If our founding fathers could be aware of what has happened to their form of government, they would be spinning in their graves and wondering why we haven't thrown off the yoke of this modern version of government.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
The Barbary Treaties, Article 11
Nov. 4, 1796

When religious factions attempt to coerce government to their own agendas and usurp the collective will of the people, it is not the religions who are under attack - it is the fabric of representative democracy.

Since: Aug 10

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#99612
Apr 13, 2013
 

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what wrote:
<quoted text>im not sayin that wouldnt be a miracle cuiz it would be. im sayin your friends are liars. cant say it no clearer than that. funny that no one seen it happen, not even the parents. the put him in a closet and he came out fixed....lmao i said the kid could have just been playin a joke on them too. tehre are many factors and u just accepted it all as truth cuz u are part of the group and u think they wont lie to u but reality is everyone lies. especially the more religious they get, for example, the same cripple that gets healed at each new town as the revival travels across the country. hearsay and all that is not a miracle unless there is some proof when everyone knows that everyone lies.
Haha. This ain't no televangelist show, these were friends of mine, with nothing to prove and nothing to gain. They got no publicity off this. They didn't even want many people knowing because they didn't want their lives ruined by our ridiculous media.
It's funny the accusations that you make on this occurrence.

Since: Aug 10

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#99613
Apr 13, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>What do you think is "miraculous" about a fleshy and cartilaginous piece of flesh knitting? Do you seriously think the parent was going to tug on the ear to see if he could get it to come back off, or do you suppose he was going to keep it compressed in place for as long as possible?

So "worthy males" of the LDS are able to leash the POWER of GOD to their beck and call... umm.. yeah, okay. Worked well enough for Bishop Willard.
The miracle is that it happened in minutes, not weeks.

Who is Willard?
Yes I hold the priesthood as well. The priesthood is the power and authority to act in God's name. the more in tune with the Spirit an individual is, and the amount of faith one has is pivotal in what that person is able to do. It is the same priesthood power that Christ held and bestowed upon the apostles and sent them out to heal the sick. It is the same power used to create the earth and all that you see.
I have been an instrument in God's hands through the priesthood power in two memorable occasions in which doctors were astonished. One was my mother n law who now is cancer free after she was diagnosed with cancer two different times and was given a year to live. The other was a boy that was mauled by the family dog who almost lost his arm. The doctors had already planned a surgery to amputate the next day, but then cancelled the OR after the improvement made overnight in his condition.
I'm sure you'll call BS on this too so I'm sparing myself from typing a lot of detail. If you are truly open minded, I don't mind sharing, but I don't really want to open up to my own personal stories just to be ridiculed and called a liar. Attacks become personal in that case.

Since: Aug 10

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#99614
Apr 13, 2013
 

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GWB wrote:
<quoted text>Do you believe the moon and sun are inhabited?
No, nor do we think that Brigham's opinion on that was inspired.

Since: Aug 10

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#99615
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Except the black ones. They aren't white and delightsome.

Oh..wait...your Prophet got a revelation or phone call from God in the 70s that said, reluctantly, the dark ones can have the Priesthood too.

Kinda right in line with the victories of the Civil Rights movement. Huh...funny that. Sort of like Joseph Smith getting a revelation from God that it's ok to marry multiple women...after he had already been doing multiple women in secret.

Nice.
Most revelations that the prophets received were when they took the initiative to pray and ask God about these situations. Plural marriage was confusing to them because it was so socially unacceptable in the 1800's. So when reading and correcting translation in the Old Testament, when they ran across the scriptures that say prophets were allowed to have more than one wife and concubines, they wanted to know why this was acceptable. Especially in the case if David who had several and he had no sin other than when he lusted after a married woman. The others weren't an issue. And David's son Solomon had a ton of wives and the only sin came when he started taking on wives of different religions that started veering him astray from his own faith. So the answer came that this practice was acceptable and sometimes necessary to further the work of God but it had to be done in the strictest fashion so as to not get out of hand and become about lust. Joseph was told to start this practice again. He was reluctant for over a year because he knew it would end up being the reason he would have friends turn in him and kill him. He also knew Emma wouldn't be happy about it. Eventually he was told that he must begin it or be removed as prophet.
As far as blacks, Joseph had black friends. Some held the priesthood and participated in temple ordinances. In fact, Missouri hated Mormons so bad because of these black friends. They thought Joseph was an abolitionist and that's why they forcefully, by mobs and murder, drove the LDSaints out of Missouri and put an extermination order on Mormons. Up until about 10 years ago it was still legal to kill a Mormon on the spot. The government finally apologized for that.
So anyway, what I see, is that Brigham seemed pretty racist. Joseph did not seem to be. Brigham said several things that do not seem to be inspired as they do not correlate with the church stance. But we know prophets are not perfect, they just have a calling that holds different responsibilities. Not all they say is inspired. They still have their own opinions.

Since: Aug 10

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#99616
Apr 13, 2013
 

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Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>See my previous post to Bearsfan because it is intended to answer this one too.

Here's one of the problems I have with what you're saying.

Let's say you have a friend who falls off a ladder and breaks his neck. He's lying on the ground, dying. You pray for him. Immediately following your prayer he wakes up, rubs his neck, gets up, and walks away.

That would be AMAZING. But guess what? It would not be proof that prayer works. That is not how we evaluate extreme claims. Now, if he was bleeding and you applied pressure to the wound we could say the pressure helped stop the bleeding. We've seen that a million times and we know it works.

Prayer is magic. We have no evidence or experience with magic. So making a claim that magic works, even in the extreme neck breaking example, would not be sufficient to prove it. You would have to produce some kind of viable hypothesis and then do experiments or observations to support the hypothesis.

We have done this several times with prayer. Prayer has no efficacy in controlled studies. So the only way to believe in it is to simply have faith. And faith is NOT reality. It is just faith. Baseless, empty, and irrational.

I know that isn't something you will accept but it is a fact. This is how reality works and this is how we navigate reality. We do not do it by faith, we do it by reason and evidence. Otherwise we would have prayed polio away instead of doing it with science.
Who is we?

I believe that advancements in science come through God. Knowledge and good come through God. I can't separate the two and I see it unnecessary to try to run experiments to test for repeatability in cases of prayer because it all depends on the situation which will always be different. God isn't an element on a chart. Neither is faith. He isn't a tool in a drawer or a chemical that is poured from an Erlenmeyer flask. It amazes me that miracles could be performed right in front of someone and they would try to rationalize how that couldn't have been God so they try to prove how it wasn't God at all.
Let's just say you were an Egyptian that witnessed Moses part the Red Sea to let all the Hebrews escape then release in time to destroy the soldiers that went after them. Would you pull out a barometer and start trying to figure out how the wind had to have done that on its own?

Since: Aug 10

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#99617
Apr 13, 2013
 

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GWB wrote:
<quoted text>The talking snake in the garden of eden did have a purpose.
I think serpent was figurative. I have called people I work with a snake too. I don't mean it for real. I'm referring to their sneaky, underhanded ways.

Since: Aug 10

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#99618
Apr 13, 2013
 

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ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>Obviously that is not the point. Despite the bronze age story of Prometheus, we know that fire has never been a secret of the gods.
Your point was that religion became obsolete as humans learned more about how life ticks. I just don't agree. Learning more is what we are supposed to do, but knowledge at our level doesn't make God irrelevant. But it's human nature to puff up with pride and feel that way. Kinda like when teens feel they know it all and their parents are our of touch. Then somewhere around 30 we realize they were pretty smart after all.

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