Bible study rules for public schools ...

Bible study rules for public schools proposed

There are 153914 comments on the The Courier-Journal story from Feb 10, 2010, titled Bible study rules for public schools proposed. In it, The Courier-Journal reports that:

FRANKFORT, Ky. - The state would create rules for teaching about the Bible in public high schools under a bill filed Monday by three Democratic senators.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Courier-Journal.

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#99626 Apr 14, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Most revelations that the prophets received were when they took the initiative to pray and ask God about these situations. Plural marriage was confusing to them because it was so socially unacceptable in the 1800's. So when reading and correcting translation in the Old Testament, when they ran across the scriptures that say prophets were allowed to have more than one wife and concubines, they wanted to know why this was acceptable. Especially in the case if David who had several and he had no sin other than when he lusted after a married woman. The others weren't an issue. And David's son Solomon had a ton of wives and the only sin came when he started taking on wives of different religions that started veering him astray from his own faith. So the answer came that this practice was acceptable and sometimes necessary to further the work of God but it had to be done in the strictest fashion so as to not get out of hand and become about lust. Joseph was told to start this practice again. He was reluctant for over a year because he knew it would end up being the reason he would have friends turn in him and kill him. He also knew Emma wouldn't be happy about it. Eventually he was told that he must begin it or be removed as prophet.
As far as blacks, Joseph had black friends. Some held the priesthood and participated in temple ordinances. In fact, Missouri hated Mormons so bad because of these black friends. They thought Joseph was an abolitionist and that's why they forcefully, by mobs and murder, drove the LDSaints out of Missouri and put an extermination order on Mormons. Up until about 10 years ago it was still legal to kill a Mormon on the spot. The government finally apologized for that.
So anyway, what I see, is that Brigham seemed pretty racist. Joseph did not seem to be. Brigham said several things that do not seem to be inspired as they do not correlate with the church stance. But we know prophets are not perfect, they just have a calling that holds different responsibilities. Not all they say is inspired. They still have their own opinions.
This is one of the reasons I find religion so nutty. You are doing mental backflips to try to rationalize your church's decisions when it should be a really simple thing to answer.

It doesn't matter if Smith had black friends. The LDS explicitly rejected blacks from the Priesthood - a position that ANY man could have if he was head of a household, correct? So it isn't like they were barred from this one, rare post. They were barred from a post held by virtually every adult male of white skin.

And it was that way for over a hundred years.

That is institutional racism to the max. And it took a secular movement (Civil Rights) to force them to change the rule.

It's complete bullsh*t to say they had to ask God first. God, if he was real, could have stopped that nonsense from day one.

I don't actually care about polygamy. But I find it funny that Smith was already doing the deed before God told him it was OK. He was a huckster after all. I kinda admire him for that, actually. What a card shark.

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#99627 Apr 14, 2013
Oxymoron wrote:
Good Speech by Glen Beck
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
There s no such thing

“Question, Explore, Discover”

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#99628 Apr 14, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is we?
I believe that advancements in science come through God. Knowledge and good come through God. I can't separate the two and I see it unnecessary to try to run experiments to test for repeatability in cases of prayer because it all depends on the situation which will always be different. God isn't an element on a chart. Neither is faith. He isn't a tool in a drawer or a chemical that is poured from an Erlenmeyer flask. It amazes me that miracles could be performed right in front of someone and they would try to rationalize how that couldn't have been God so they try to prove how it wasn't God at all.
Let's just say you were an Egyptian that witnessed Moses part the Red Sea to let all the Hebrews escape then release in time to destroy the soldiers that went after them. Would you pull out a barometer and start trying to figure out how the wind had to have done that on its own?
And that's why you should not make claims about reality that cannot be tested or verified. I don't care what you believe personally, I care about what you claim is true about my reality. I live in the same world you live in. Your rules, if true, would include me. I require evidence to support them, and then I will evaluate them using science and reason.

Faith is not a factor.

Regarding Moses:

Well, the Hebrews were not actually held in Egypt so that entire Bible story is not literally true. Moses never parted any seas. If I witnessed such a thing with my own eyes I might be floored by such a miracle. But I would not expect other people to just accept my story because they think I'm an honest guy. That isn't how we evaluate these things.

Take your prayer story for example. I didn't read the original post but I picked up the details here and there. You have friends whose son had an ear injury that was pretty severe and it healed up in minutes? Is that correct?

If you were a skeptical person you would not accept hat story at face value. Your friend's reputation is irrelevant. He is asking you to accept an event that all good sense and experience cannot support. So your friend, if he wants it to be accepted, is in the position of having a burden of proof. He needs to provide quite a bit of evidence. And we need to see more cases like this that have been documented and confirmed.

Then, and only then, can we begin to say something is going on. Then we get busy figuring it out. We don't call it a miracle and go to church.

Science and faith are not compatible. They are two mutually exclusive ideas. To say that God directs science puts a burden of proof on your shoulders. You need to support that claim about my world with astonishing evidence.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#99629 Apr 14, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
We can't talk to secular fundamentalists; they can't reason. Tell the pollsters, sure thing, 100%, but don't waste your time. They have an agenda, so do we. Teach your children to learn the custom and prejudice at school, then teach them how to play the system so they can win. Understand your culture.
Bible study rules, don't yell in class.
Wrong, the only moral lesson students should learn in school is to question authority, which is contradictory to your religious nonsense.

Satanic Priest

“There is no god”

Since: Jul 12

War, WV

#99630 Apr 14, 2013
Showing how members of the christian cult are weak minded followers they listen to lunatics ranting and then give them huge amounts of money.
So stupid that even when they see their idols living in multi million dollar homes and engaging in perverse sex they still give them money and make excuses for them.
The cult mentality that makes these sheep blindly follow breads more con men who legally deceive stupid people with their promises of a greater return than what they give.
If I promised you a 100% return on what ever money you gave me they would arrest me but a preacher can promise ten times the amount (1000%) and you idiots fall for it.
Man are you stupid
GWB

Rancho Cordova, CA

#99631 Apr 14, 2013
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
I think serpent was figurative. I have called people I work with a snake too. I don't mean it for real. I'm referring to their sneaky, underhanded ways.
This reads like all non-mormons who preach false doctrines are going hell-fire and be tormented forever. Is the Christian God really that sadistic? I would think that is Jesus talk in parables this would also be figurative. Is it convenient to use fear to convert the unwilling?

12 Because of pride, and because of false teachers, and false doctrine, their churches have become corrupted, and their churches are lifted up; because of pride they are puffed up.

5 O the wise, and the learned, and the rich, that are puffed up in the pride of their hearts, and all those who preach false doctrines, and all those who commit whoredoms, and pervert the right way of the Lord, wo, wo, wo be unto them, saith the Lord God Almighty, for they shall be thrust down to hell!

23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be ajudged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a blake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/28.22...
Wrong again Sparky

Georgetown, KY

#99632 Apr 14, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>No, it is a smoke screen to allow preachers in to go around preaching to children and to pressure children. It is a stepping stone to teach the bible as fact.
In the beginning... He made them male, and female!
Is not a vagina made for a penis?
That is a Biblical fact... even if you do not want to believe that!
Fact is fact!
Thanks again for
proving God, and the Bible to be true!
Good day:-)
YET AGAIN PROVING THAT YOU STILL SMOKE METH
Hahahaha!
Your lies are getting thin, and worn out!
Thanks again!
Wrong again Sparky

Georgetown, KY

#99633 Apr 14, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I notice that YaA doesn't quite get the distinction between "Biblical" and "biological."
Hmmm...
"biblical function"
"biological function"
Maybe there isn't that much difference?
Hahahaha!
Isn't it more your 'choice' to use your body parts as a
vagina in a sinful way, and not biologically?

“I'll think about it.”

Since: Nov 07

central Florida

#99634 Apr 14, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, the only moral lesson students should learn in school is to question authority, which is contradictory to your religious nonsense.
Not only authority, but everything.
Schools should teach the process of thinking.
Not WHAT to think but HOW to think.
Wrong again Sparky

Georgetown, KY

#99635 Apr 14, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>From my experience they are also violent and blood lusting. So many "christians" have stated that I should be; shot, burned at the stake, tied to the back of their truck and dragged, beaten until I defecate myself, etc.....
And from what I see on the news they are hate filled and perverts.
I do not want them talking to my child much less teaching them.
Most colleges have world religion classes, so why do they still try to push their beliefs on to innocent children? Maybe college aged boys and girls are too old for them?
Do people say, and do bad things?
Yes... they do!
.
Do some people say (as you pointed out in a post earlier) say they are Christian for whatever reason, and are not?
Yes... they do!
.
Did Christ's teachings say "Love God, Love your enemy, Love your neighbor", "To do unto others, as you'd have them do unto you"???
YES THEY DO!
.
Does ANYTHING that you posted about, sound like it came from a REAL Christian, and not some "Church goer"????
NO.... it does NOT!
So... your anger, and lies about Christians is
wrong, and misplaced!
Case closed, and thanks again!
Wrong again Sparky

Georgetown, KY

#99636 Apr 14, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>This country was built on industry and personal rights/individual freedom. In no way was this country built on religion, in fact just the opposite as our fore fathers saw fit to protect us from the christian cult.
I understand your need to lie... It's in the Bible!
Thanks again!
Wrong again Sparky

Georgetown, KY

#99637 Apr 14, 2013
Quantummist wrote:
<quoted text>
So why does a penis fit into a goat? I saw pictures.... And why do vaginas fit a wide range of household items and small ponies... Again, I saw pictures...
One word...
"Sin"!
Yes... you seen pictures, as people
like to flaunt their sins, for other sinners to see!
case in point... the soap opera right after the news at
noon on channel 18....
.
Notice that the 'News' doesn't cover the trial of
Kermit Gosnell????
Same reason... sin!

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99638 Apr 14, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>Willard Romney, of course.
I give more credit to the mindset of the Centurian's slave than to the Holy Ghost working though the hands of a pompadour headed faith healer.
I'm not one to sling names without warrant. If someone claims as fact that the Earth was completely submerged 4500 years ago and that it should be taught to children as such, I'll call them worse than liar, as there is definite proof otherwise. A torn ear? Cancer in remission? We can meet at the middle and give misunderstanding and lost in translation the benefit of the doubt without any personal angst from either side. I do not relish sharing personal stories because 1)deservedly or not, ridicule of one's life experiences would be inevitable from certain unsavory individuals and 2)just as with family vacation photos, acquaintances don't really care all that much, anyway.
And to anyone outside of that immediate world, it means nothing. Which was Joseph Smith's problem as well.
curious

Winter Garden, FL

#99639 Apr 14, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
1) I would gladly address your "issues" if you would state them rationally and clearly. Aside from that, I am not an anger management counselor. pfffft.
2) I'm not SP and I post with no other account. Mind your 9th commandment.
3) "...BANG...?" As in the discharge of a firearm? Perhaps the Topix moderators had a GOOD REASON for deleting your post(s)? Pardon me if I decline to make my location un-hidden.
You claim that,perhaps,the Topix Moderator had a good reason for deleting my post,
The contents of that post merely expained the series of events that led to my finding my dog,as a result of my prayer,a series of events that I could not logically explain,other than,God having responded to my prayer.
I challenged anyone to provide me with a logical explanation.
On that basis,there is no legitimate reason to have deleted 1 of the 4 posts I posted in presenting my argument.
Unless,of course,there were those,who dared not take up the challenge .
I have reposted that deleted section twice,on page 4763 post99476,page4765,post no.99513.
Oddly enough,none of you Atheists have acknowledged having read it.
Moreover,Satan Priest,who challenged me to present evidence,to support my belief that prayers are answered ,which I did,has avoided the topic,has not acknowledged reading what I posted,has,instead,unable to respond to my challenge,resorted to spewing gibberish and nonsense.
Yiagio made some comments,which,in no way attempted to address the events that took place, the how and the why,meaning,the way in which they took place and what might have determined those events.
Likewise Spektakals,he also did not address the issues in question No one has made an attemmpt,
Maybe you would like to try?
Wrong again Sparky

Georgetown, KY

#99640 Apr 14, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>Now you are being stupid. I never said anything about your having faith, but what you have faith in is a fairy tale. Just like children having faith in Santa Claus.
Everything else you have said is from your book of fairy tales and does not prove that your fairy tales are real.
Nice try though.
And if you are not here supporting that the bible be taught in school than what is your point? To force your beliefs on to me? Just to argue?
Wrong again....
What WE are here telling you...
It is NOT a fairy tale!
God is real... just like satan...
The fact that you post against Him... Proves He,
and the Bible are true!
Thanks again!

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99641 Apr 14, 2013
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>You are comparing the understanding of one group from the bronze age to the accumulated and applied knowledge of all mankind over an additional 2,000 years. The wisdom of religion is believing that scripture has all of the answers. The wisdom of knowledge is accepting that we will never know everything. Human nature is proof that we have no wisdom - we are all members of an insane species.
The 30 year old looks back to when he was 15 - life was simple and he knew it all....religion is the child, reality is the adult.
I contend that both wisdoms exist. But I, in no way, believe that all wisdom comes from scripture. As I said, I believe wisdom comes from God, who encourages us to learn as much as possible while on this earth.
I have no problem with science. I enjoyed it in college. I just don't think it should be used to prove, or disprove God.
Wrong again Sparky

Georgetown, KY

#99642 Apr 14, 2013
Satanic Priest wrote:
<quoted text>I mean that the christian cult likes young boys and girls. As we see in the news every day
So does your Satanists....
Your point would better be made as...
We are sinful people, and there is
"Right, and Wrong", and it is the Godless that
want to perpetuate "Wrong"...
Calling good, evil, and evil, good!
Thanks again!

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99643 Apr 14, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>Q described the kind of God you are talking about and how silly it sounds. What you used as a counter example is not even close to that level of science fiction. Also, we have actual daily experience with eating and drinking and pooping. NOBODY has daily experience with a flesh-and-blood wizard that can create people out of dirt.

Outside of playing D&D, that is.
There was no point in doing it in that manner though.
Obviously I was trying to be comical with my analogy, but my point still stands. It is only insulting to the believers when you try to make their beliefs sound silly, it doesn't prove any validity or lack of. It only proves to insult. Calling God a sky fairy, invisible daddy, in a suit, etc etc, and calling believers sheep, ignorant, illogical, etc. is only meant to ridicule. It reminds me of a middle school bully.
If you don't want believers getting in your face, don't throw rocks by treating them this way. The ones that come at you telling you that you are going to hell deserve everything you got. But don't lump all believers in this bucket and attack us all. It's prejudice at its finest and insulting to the ones that are respectful and want to carry on a real conversation.

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99644 Apr 14, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>This is one of the reasons I find religion so nutty. You are doing mental backflips to try to rationalize your church's decisions when it should be a really simple thing to answer.

It doesn't matter if Smith had black friends. The LDS explicitly rejected blacks from the Priesthood - a position that ANY man could have if he was head of a household, correct? So it isn't like they were barred from this one, rare post. They were barred from a post held by virtually every adult male of white skin.

And it was that way for over a hundred years.

That is institutional racism to the max. And it took a secular movement (Civil Rights) to force them to change the rule.

It's complete bullsh*t to say they had to ask God first. God, if he was real, could have stopped that nonsense from day one.

I don't actually care about polygamy. But I find it funny that Smith was already doing the deed before God told him it was OK. He was a huckster after all. I kinda admire him for that, actually. What a card shark.
As I have said before, God requires effort on part. He requires thought from us. Not everything is handed to us. Maybe God's timing was wise here. The church was already persecuted for its beliefs to the point of having men, women, and children killed , and being run out of 4 states. Adding the stance that blacks are equal in a time when most if the country felt otherwise would have caused even more persecution. That isn't a backflip, that is putting myself in context.

What source do you have that Joseph practiced plural marriage before being commanded?

Since: Aug 10

Location hidden

#99645 Apr 14, 2013
Yiago wrote:
<quoted text>And that's why you should not make claims about reality that cannot be tested or verified. I don't care what you believe personally, I care about what you claim is true about my reality. I live in the same world you live in. Your rules, if true, would include me. I require evidence to support them, and then I will evaluate them using science and reason.

Faith is not a factor.

Regarding Moses:

Well, the Hebrews were not actually held in Egypt so that entire Bible story is not literally true. Moses never parted any seas. If I witnessed such a thing with my own eyes I might be floored by such a miracle. But I would not expect other people to just accept my story because they think I'm an honest guy. That isn't how we evaluate these things.

Take your prayer story for example. I didn't read the original post but I picked up the details here and there. You have friends whose son had an ear injury that was pretty severe and it healed up in minutes? Is that correct?

If you were a skeptical person you would not accept hat story at face value. Your friend's reputation is irrelevant. He is asking you to accept an event that all good sense and experience cannot support. So your friend, if he wants it to be accepted, is in the position of having a burden of proof. He needs to provide quite a bit of evidence. And we need to see more cases like this that have been documented and confirmed.

Then, and only then, can we begin to say something is going on. Then we get busy figuring it out. We don't call it a miracle and go to church.

Science and faith are not compatible. They are two mutually exclusive ideas. To say that God directs science puts a burden of proof on your shoulders. You need to support that claim about my world with astonishing evidence.
Haha, so you're saying in order for that miracle to have been valid, he needs to invite friends, family, and the media over to redo it? Haha. That's absurd. Hang on son, let me cut your ear off again so they can see this for themselves.
Not everything is repeatable, and not everything can be tested. Just as macro evolution. There is no way to test that. And the leaps that are assumed in many cases are no more plausible than the eyewitnesses in my story and the bloody clothes and the EMT's showing up minutes later.

How do you know Hebrews were never in Egypt?

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