Why Believing in God Makes No Sense

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Since: Feb 13

Nicholasville, KY

#1 Oct 19, 2013
If asked, a Christian will say, "God knows everything, and he always has, and he always will. He can also do anything and make anything happen. All things are possible with God." Right?

So ... going along with Old Testament Genesis nonsense ... if God always knew, from the very beginning, everything that would ever happen, that means he knew that he would make Eve before he even made Adam. He knew he would tell them not to eat the "forbidden fruit," and he knew Eve would do so anyway. So basically, he let it all happen, set us up for failure from the beginning, sat back and let it happen, chose not to intervene.

Essentially, your version of "God" is a self-centered, malicious bastard. He knew what the world would be like. He could have created a utopia where everyone is healthy and happy, hell, even immortal, but he made weak, sickly humans and basically cursed us from creation.

So, you can either not believe he exists, or you can believe he exists but he is not benevolent and kind like you say.

The famous quote from Epicurus sums it up perfectly:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

If you can read, and I assume you can, since you got this far, explain to me how that quote DOESN'T make sense.
Believe VS NonBelief

Montréal, Canada

#2 Oct 19, 2013
You just stumbled across liberalism. You can't logically deny something that you don't believe exists or else how is it there to deny it in the first place? How can you deny the existance of God if at first you didn't have the concept of God?

Kind of like "If everyday is a sunny day....Then what the heck is a sunny day?" thing. Can you see some logic?

Why have a belief system to something that YOU say in the first instance doesn't exist? That's very silly. That's like me saying I'm antisantaclausism or I'm a antitoothfairiest.

An atheist whole belief system is based on something they SAY doesn't exist. I think just by pure implication, atheism actually points to the existence of God.

Back in the day when someone believed that the earth was flat, that belief was based on something that did exist, namely the earth.

When atheist say they don't believe in God or they don't have any god beliefs, they are supporting the existence of God. An atheist by definition is defined by God and foretold by his book. You couldn't have an atheist if God doesn't exist.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#3 Oct 19, 2013
Believe VS NonBelief wrote:
You just stumbled across liberalism. You can't logically deny something that you don't believe exists or else how is it there to deny it in the first place? How can you deny the existance of God if at first you didn't have the concept of God?
Kind of like "If everyday is a sunny day....Then what the heck is a sunny day?" thing. Can you see some logic?
Why have a belief system to something that YOU say in the first instance doesn't exist? That's very silly. That's like me saying I'm antisantaclausism or I'm a antitoothfairiest.
An atheist whole belief system is based on something they SAY doesn't exist. I think just by pure implication, atheism actually points to the existence of God.
Back in the day when someone believed that the earth was flat, that belief was based on something that did exist, namely the earth.
When atheist say they don't believe in God or they don't have any god beliefs, they are supporting the existence of God. An atheist by definition is defined by God and foretold by his book. You couldn't have an atheist if God doesn't exist.
I think you are a little confused. Atheism is not a belief system, it is a response position. It responds to the statement "There is a God". You could very well say you are an "aSantaClausist" because it is a response to "Santa Claus is real". However since only children or the mentally feeble tend to hold the positive/affirming position (that there really is a Santa Claus) there is little need to state an obvious negative one. Same goes for Zeus, Thor, or any other dead Deity. No one holds the positive of their existence so stating you don't believe is redundant.
jim

United States

#4 Oct 19, 2013
Simple Fact 79 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are a little confused. Atheism is not a belief system, it is a response position. It responds to the statement "There is a God". You could very well say you are an "aSantaClausist" because it is a response to "Santa Claus is real". However since only children or the mentally feeble tend to hold the positive/affirming position (that there really is a Santa Claus) there is little need to state an obvious negative one. Same goes for Zeus, Thor, or any other dead Deity. No one holds the positive of their existence so stating you don't believe is redundant.
your entitled to ur opinion.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#5 Oct 19, 2013
jim wrote:
<quoted text>your entitled to ur opinion.
Ok, I'll humor you on this. Tell me, if Atheism is a belief system, then what exactly does it instruct one to believe? Religion tells people what they should/shouldn't think, how they should(n't) act and even what they should(n't) wear or eat. Do you have any solid examples of this that are unique or ascribed to across all of Atheism?
Angel In Training

Williamsburg, KY

#6 Oct 19, 2013
RealityCheck123 wrote:
If asked, a Christian will say, "God knows everything, and he always has, and he always will. He can also do anything and make anything happen. All things are possible with God." Right?
So ... going along with Old Testament Genesis nonsense ... if God always knew, from the very beginning, everything that would ever happen, that means he knew that he would make Eve before he even made Adam. He knew he would tell them not to eat the "forbidden fruit," and he knew Eve would do so anyway. So basically, he let it all happen, set us up for failure from the beginning, sat back and let it happen, chose not to intervene.
Essentially, your version of "God" is a self-centered, malicious bastard. He knew what the world would be like. He could have created a utopia where everyone is healthy and happy, hell, even immortal, but he made weak, sickly humans and basically cursed us from creation.
So, you can either not believe he exists, or you can believe he exists but he is not benevolent and kind like you say.
The famous quote from Epicurus sums it up perfectly:
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
If you can read, and I assume you can, since you got this far, explain to me how that quote DOESN'T make sense.
Life is a test dumbass! You have to earn your wings.
Chance

Saint Louis, MO

#7 Oct 19, 2013
Simple Fact 79 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, I'll humor you on this. Tell me, if Atheism is a belief system, then what exactly does it instruct one to believe? Religion tells people what they should/shouldn't think, how they should(n't) act and even what they should(n't) wear or eat. Do you have any solid examples of this that are unique or ascribed to across all of Atheism?
Well you have the belief right there in front of your nose. You want to crusade and convince others to believe God dont exist.
And there is a worldwide Church of Atheist that does all the things churches does with fees membership, ordinations etc.
They preach against God instead of preaching FOR him.
You atheist guys on topix are just penny annie guys.
http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

Since: Feb 13

Nicholasville, KY

#8 Oct 20, 2013
Disappointing, yet not surprising. I asked a question, and the poster totally ignored it. Typical. Answer the damn question next time.
flitter

Manchester, KY

#9 Oct 20, 2013
Freedom of religion is a good thing. Here in America we can practice any type of religion supposedly without persecution unlike lots of other places in this cruel world we live in.
The bible was supposedly written by the followers of Jesus.
Lots of the places and objects mentioned in a book written long ago are being found in todays world proving without doubt the book is at least correct about those things. I think its a fairly safe assumption to say the rest is accurate too.
Atheists are part of america but I dont remember seeing anything in our constitution that gaurantees nonreligious freedoms.
Maybe somebody like mitch mcconnell needs to shit on your parade, put you all in a large bag, shake it up and see what comes out first.
Christians survived the lions den you know. Or maybe you dont know since you dont follow the bible
Good morning

United States

#10 Oct 20, 2013
RealityCheck123 wrote:
Disappointing, yet not surprising. I asked a question, and the poster totally ignored it. Typical. Answer the damn question next time.
Your question was more than adequately answered.
But being filled with intolerate rage and hatred against God's people, you tend to attack people just because they want to believe differently than you. You want to drag the same old stuff out on topix and sift it over and over again, to try and stir up arguments and trouble.

Jesus did not argue and I dont believe we should either.
When the woman caught in adultery, was dragged up to him, he told her accusers:
He that is without sin, cast the first stone.
ummmmm

London, KY

#11 Oct 20, 2013
flitter wrote:
Freedom of religion is a good thing. Here in America we can practice any type of religion supposedly without persecution unlike lots of other places in this cruel world we live in.
The bible was supposedly written by the followers of Jesus.
Lots of the places and objects mentioned in a book written long ago are being found in todays world proving without doubt the book is at least correct about those things. I think its a fairly safe assumption to say the rest is accurate too.
Atheists are part of america but I dont remember seeing anything in our constitution that gaurantees nonreligious freedoms.
Maybe somebody like mitch mcconnell needs to shit on your parade, put you all in a large bag, shake it up and see what comes out first.
Christians survived the lions den you know. Or maybe you dont know since you dont follow the bible
Although there are facts in the bible about places and events that are accurate to history, it negates the scientific facts of dinosaurs and evolution. Recent studies have shown that modern homosapiens did not derive from Neanderthal man, in fact they coexisted, and even bred. If God created different species of man, why was this not mentioned in the bible? Logic dictates that God created the earth, so he created dinosaurs, but yet they aren't mentioned either. Why is this? Because the KJV bible was written by people who were organizing a new belief system. Today we refer to this as a cult. Also this book neglected to include all the gospels from the disciples of Jesus. For instance The Book of Mary. That's right Mary Magdalene was a disciple and equal of Jesus. This was deliberately left out because disciples like Peter believed in the ways that women were not equals. So the question is, what else was left out for personal desire? Makes one question the authenticity of their teachings doesn't it? By your logic that because facts and events have been proven, thus meaning that the accuracy of everything else could also mean that Jehovah's witnesses bible is more accurate than the KJV because it includes dinosaurs and evolution. So whose bible is really accurate? If you take the Jewish perspective into account, you will find that the Messiah was to free their people. Which Jesus did not fulfill, thus making him a false profit. So for thousands of years people have been following the words and works of what we would refer to as a cult leader, when in fact we should be following the laws of Gods chosen people. Judaism. Because of all the hypocrisy throughout all religions, who is to say there is really a God. Just like those who began worshiping deities because of correlation to a miraculous event and an object occurred, how do you know God wasn't created in the same fashion, through a figment of imagination by a creative man?

Since: Feb 13

Nicholasville, KY

#12 Oct 20, 2013
Good morning wrote:
<quoted text>Your question was more than adequately answered.
But being filled with intolerate rage and hatred against God's people, you tend to attack people just because they want to believe differently than you. You want to drag the same old stuff out on topix and sift it over and over again, to try and stir up arguments and trouble.
Jesus did not argue and I dont believe we should either.
When the woman caught in adultery, was dragged up to him, he told her accusers:
He that is without sin, cast the first stone.
First--my question was NOT answered. NO ONE provided an explanation as to why a benevolent and all-powerful being would create a flawed world full of suffering. THAT was the question. NO ONE answered it.

Second--I am not full of hatred toward "God's people." (I assume that you believe "God's people" are Christians, since you seem so biased.) I was raised by hardcore Christians, and I am still extremely close to my family, all of whom are fervently "Christian."

Third--I didn't "attack" anyone at all. I asked a logical question, hoping to get a logical answer. Your tone is much more aggressive and similar to an "attack" than anything in my original post. You should check yourself.

And lastly--you say I just want to "drag up the same old stuff." Actually, I've hardly posted anything on this website at all. I simply asked a question, and I am still waiting on a logical, sensible explanation of the answer.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#13 Oct 20, 2013
Chance wrote:
<quoted text>Well you have the belief right there in front of your nose. You want to crusade and convince others to believe God dont exist.
And there is a worldwide Church of Atheist that does all the things churches does with fees membership, ordinations etc.
They preach against God instead of preaching FOR him.
You atheist guys on topix are just penny annie guys.
http://firstchurchofatheism.com/
Actually most Atheists done give two thoughts about what you or anyone else believe or don't believe. You speak only of the vocal minority, the squeaky-wheel. That is obviously a person choice and not a "belief" taught by Atheism. It would be like comparing all Republicans to the Tea Party and assuming there is no difference between the two groups.

As for the Chruch of Atheism, did you actually bother to read the site or did you just throw it out there? Maybe you should check it out, especially the FAQ. http://firstchurchofatheism.com/faq/

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#14 Oct 20, 2013
flitter wrote:
Freedom of religion is a good thing. Here in America we can practice any type of religion supposedly without persecution unlike lots of other places in this cruel world we live in.
The bible was supposedly written by the followers of Jesus.
Lots of the places and objects mentioned in a book written long ago are being found in todays world proving without doubt the book is at least correct about those things. I think its a fairly safe assumption to say the rest is accurate too.
Atheists are part of america but I dont remember seeing anything in our constitution that gaurantees nonreligious freedoms.
Maybe somebody like mitch mcconnell needs to shit on your parade, put you all in a large bag, shake it up and see what comes out first.
Christians survived the lions den you know. Or maybe you dont know since you dont follow the bible
Just because you find a historic city mentioned in the Bible does nothing to support its truth or the validity of its supernatural claims. There is a State named Maine, does that make all of Stephen King's horror stories true?

As for "non-religious freedoms", please read the first amendment. Freedom of religious expression does include the choice to express no religion.
walt

Whitley City, KY

#15 Oct 20, 2013
RealityCheck123 wrote:
<quoted text>
First--my question was NOT answered. NO ONE provided an explanation as to why a benevolent and all-powerful being would create a flawed world full of suffering. THAT was the question. NO ONE answered it.
When you want to test a new car design it would be good to build a test track with bumps, hills and curves so as to prove the car's capability.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#16 Oct 20, 2013
walt wrote:
<quoted text>
When you want to test a new car design it would be good to build a test track with bumps, hills and curves so as to prove the car's capability.
The inherent flaw in this logic is that it speaks of imperfection. When we built something we start with design ,then test it, and then correct flaws. All of this is done to create a better end product. If this is the method that God used/is using then that leaves is with two conclusions. First, God is not Omni- anything since they were not capable of producing flawless perfection at will. Secondly, that somewhere out there your God made a better product that is living an ideal life. This second option precludes Heaven since it was already the home of God and thusly needs no "creation" after the trial & error test phase. So which do you feel is right? Is your God not all powerful and knowing or is there another creation that he made after ours that fixed the mistakes in this one?
faith

Somerset, KY

#17 Oct 20, 2013
God does know everything and sees everything. It's hard to understand why would God allow all the bad things in the world. But he gave people free will. We are all born sinners, it's the ones who react to the sins who are doomed.

But faith in God that he created everything and that he created you and me is better than believing in nothing. At least as a Christian, you have faith that is going to save you and if your wrong then you lived life for something instead of nothing.

But those who believe that God doesn't exist and that people who follow Him are just crazy bible blowers, well they have more faith than a Christian. They have so much faith that God doesn't exist that they are willing to bet a life in hell. Because when they die and realize that they was wrong that's when their eyes open finally.

Every knee is going to bow and every voice will proclaim that Christ is the savior. If you are convinced that there isn't a creator and there isn't a God watching over us then you are living a empty life. Sure you might have everything you want and are living a life you like but you are truly lost from all hope of having life after this. Why would life just stop after death. There is no reason to be born then to live then to die without a purpose.

Short N Sweet

United States

#18 Oct 20, 2013
ummmmm wrote:
<quoted text>
Although there are facts in the bible about places and events that are accurate to history, it negates the scientific facts of dinosaurs and evolution. Recent studies have shown that modern homosapiens did not derive from Neanderthal man, in fact they coexisted, and even bred. If God created different species of man, why was this not mentioned in the bible? Logic dictates that God created the earth, so he created dinosaurs, but yet they aren't mentioned either. Why is this? Because the KJV bible was written by people who were organizing a new belief system. Today we refer to this as a cult. Also this book neglected to include all the gospels from the disciples of Jesus. For instance The Book of Mary. That's right Mary Magdalene was a disciple and equal of Jesus. This was deliberately left out because disciples like Peter believed in the ways that women were not equals. So the question is, what else was left out for personal desire? Makes one question the authenticity of their teachings doesn't it? By your logic that because facts and events have been proven, thus meaning that the accuracy of everything else could also mean that Jehovah's witnesses bible is more accurate than the KJV because it includes dinosaurs and evolution. So whose bible is really accurate? If you take the Jewish perspective into account, you will find that the Messiah was to free their people. Which Jesus did not fulfill, thus making him a false profit. So for thousands of years people have been following the words and works of what we would refer to as a cult leader, when in fact we should be following the laws of Gods chosen people. Judaism. Because of all the hypocrisy throughout all religions, who is to say there is really a God. Just like those who began worshiping deities because of correlation to a miraculous event and an object occurred, how do you know God wasn't created in the same fashion, through a figment of imagination by a creative man?
Ah but there were dinosaurs in the Bible. They were not called by the english name of dinosaurs. http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/01/03/dino...
Check the many scriptures on this:
Pathetic

Ashland, KY

#19 Oct 20, 2013
walt wrote:
<quoted text>
When you want to test a new car design it would be good to build a test track with bumps, hills and curves so as to prove the car's capability.
But if the creator has always known everything and has always been able to do anything, why would it need to "test us out" until it "got us right?" Why wouldn't a perfect, all-knowing, benevolent creator just make us "right" in the first place? At least you tried to answer, I'll give you that. No one else will even try. But your answer still isn't logical.

Since: Feb 13

Ashland, KY

#20 Oct 20, 2013
OOPS. That was indeed me who just posted that. I just didn't realize I wasn't signed in.

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