Smoking ban won't hurt bars, restaurtants

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Former Bar Owner

Lees Summit, MO

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#1
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Smoking bans do hurt bars, I know as I owned one that lived through a ban. Let me tell you the falsehoods that proponents hide. Those people who do not smoke do not spend as much, stay as long or tip as well. If you are unfortunate enough to be near a city without a ban, you lose those customers, never to see them again. Proponents that tell you they will come to your business after the ban is in place are lying, they do not. If you don't normally go to bars, you won't start going because of a smoking ban. As the cost of business kept going up and the average money spent per person went down, I decided enough was enough. Two years after the ban was in place and at the end of my lease, I called it quits. I lost 35% of my business due to the ban. Leave the option to the business owner, if bars without smoking made more money, more bars would be smoke free. Cigerettes are legal to buy and consume, if you do not wish to be around smoke, go somewhere else, otherwise make cigerettes illegal to purchase. Don't let these ban proponents fool the public into thinking that it helps business and increases profits, it does not. As for public health, it is a choice that every adult can make with their wallet.
Nick Fitt

Walnut Cove, NC

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#2
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Former Bar Owner wrote:
Smoking bans do hurt bars, I know as I owned one that lived through a ban. Let me tell you the falsehoods that proponents hide. Those people who do not smoke do not spend as much, stay as long or tip as well. If you are unfortunate enough to be near a city without a ban, you lose those customers, never to see them again. Proponents that tell you they will come to your business after the ban is in place are lying, they do not. If you don't normally go to bars, you won't start going because of a smoking ban. As the cost of business kept going up and the average money spent per person went down, I decided enough was enough. Two years after the ban was in place and at the end of my lease, I called it quits. I lost 35% of my business due to the ban. Leave the option to the business owner, if bars without smoking made more money, more bars would be smoke free. Cigerettes are legal to buy and consume, if you do not wish to be around smoke, go somewhere else, otherwise make cigerettes illegal to purchase. Don't let these ban proponents fool the public into thinking that it helps business and increases profits, it does not. As for public health, it is a choice that every adult can make with their wallet.
It is too bad that you were not intellegent enough to figure out how to increase your business despite the ban. Many people ARE able to do that. Please do not expect non smokers to cry in their beer just because YOU could not hack it. YOU are NOT more important than the population as a whole and as you can see all the sob stories in the world are not going to be anough to stop more bans from coming or to roll back the major ones that are now in place.

It is good that you figured out that YOU needed to close your doors. YOU obviously no longer were able to provide a product that people wanted. YOU did not want to change, but instead hoped for some miracle to save you. I got news for you, the miracles are NOT coming. YOU are a good example to other stubborn bar owners. The bans ARE coming. If you cannot hack it, GET OUT.

Health issues are far more important than your ability or lack of ability to stay in business. The handwriting has been on the wall regardiong bans for a long time now. People have had the time to adapt or get out. Those that have done neither deserve no sympathy.
mcmm

Reno, NV

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#3
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Nick Fitt wrote:
<quoted text>
It is too bad that you were not intellegent enough to figure out how to increase your business despite the ban. Many people ARE able to do that. Please do not expect non smokers to cry in their beer just because YOU could not hack it. YOU are NOT more important than the population as a whole and as you can see all the sob stories in the world are not going to be anough to stop more bans from coming or to roll back the major ones that are now in place.
It is good that you figured out that YOU needed to close your doors. YOU obviously no longer were able to provide a product that people wanted. YOU did not want to change, but instead hoped for some miracle to save you. I got news for you, the miracles are NOT coming. YOU are a good example to other stubborn bar owners. The bans ARE coming. If you cannot hack it, GET OUT.
Health issues are far more important than your ability or lack of ability to stay in business. The handwriting has been on the wall regardiong bans for a long time now. People have had the time to adapt or get out. Those that have done neither deserve no sympathy.
So who goes into a bar thinking about their health? A bar was never advertised as a health place. Nobody in a bar is even thinking about their health. And if non-smoking bars are doing such great business why didn't any open up before the bans? If there was such a big demand for smoke-free bars why did no one figure this out and make one? If a business owner is expected to "see it coming" then someone else should have seen it and opened smoke-free bars.
Nick Fitt

AOL

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#4
Mar 15, 2008
 

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mcmm wrote:
<quoted text>So who goes into a bar thinking about their health? A bar was never advertised as a health place. Nobody in a bar is even thinking about their health. And if non-smoking bars are doing such great business why didn't any open up before the bans? If there was such a big demand for smoke-free bars why did no one figure this out and make one? If a business owner is expected to "see it coming" then someone else should have seen it and opened smoke-free bars.
Sorry, but it does not matter. Smoke free is either here to stay or it is coming down the pike. If you are a business owner you need to learn to live with it or lose your shirt. If you would quit crying in your beer long enough you would see the other opportunities that are there to make money with a ban.
mcmm

Reno, NV

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#5
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Nick Fitt wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but it does not matter. Smoke free is either here to stay or it is coming down the pike. If you are a business owner you need to learn to live with it or lose your shirt. If you would quit crying in your beer long enough you would see the other opportunities that are there to make money with a ban.
That's my point. The opportunities are there with or without the ban, so no need for the ban.
SassyVarmit

United States

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#6
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Former Bar Owner wrote:
Smoking bans do hurt bars, I know as I owned one that lived through a ban. Let me tell you the falsehoods that proponents hide. Those people who do not smoke do not spend as much, stay as long or tip as well. If you are unfortunate enough to be near a city without a ban, you lose those customers, never to see them again. Proponents that tell you they will come to your business after the ban is in place are lying, they do not. If you don't normally go to bars, you won't start going because of a smoking ban. As the cost of business kept going up and the average money spent per person went down, I decided enough was enough. Two years after the ban was in place and at the end of my lease, I called it quits. I lost 35% of my business due to the ban. Leave the option to the business owner, if bars without smoking made more money, more bars would be smoke free. Cigerettes are legal to buy and consume, if you do not wish to be around smoke, go somewhere else, otherwise make cigerettes illegal to purchase. Don't let these ban proponents fool the public into thinking that it helps business and increases profits, it does not. As for public health, it is a choice that every adult can make with their wallet.
I have seen the exact same thing happen in Colorado.

It amazes me, the amount of people that have listened to the lies the Anti smoking machine spews, and, because it suits their purposes, ignore the obvious financial consequences the business owners pay to make them more comfortable.

It is also clear, that it has nothing to do with health, or, the health of the workers... it is about power, and, abuse of that power. Just read the posts on this thread - that should be all the proof that anyone should need.(Non-smoker)
fed up

Chesterfield, MO

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#7
Mar 15, 2008
 

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im a smoker and i say bring on the bans.heck lets do one better, lets outlaw all smoking material. then we will see the impact it has on the econemy.no taxes from sales,no taxes from the tobacco companys,all the programs we the smokers support from the sales of smoking products,guess what ..they be gone..and YOU THE NON SMOKING PEOPLE will have to start paying out of YOUR pockets..then we will see how high and mighty you are...bunch of dum@$$$es
Nick Fitt

AOL

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#8
Mar 15, 2008
 
mcmm wrote:
<quoted text>That's my point. The opportunities are there with or without the ban, so no need for the ban.
My point is the ban is either here to stay or it is coming, so it is up to the business man to adapt or go out of business.
Bans-dont-hurt

Kansas City, MO

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#9
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Lived in NYC, and now live in KCMO, and I can say from personal experience that the bar scene will remain alive and well -- and will likely increase to some extent -- following the ban.
The one segment that the ban will hurt is the tobacco industry, which is why they're funding so heavily the so-called "business rights" lobby.
I ain't crying for Phillip Morris.

“Just Say No to Smoking Bans”

Since: Jul 07

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#10
Mar 15, 2008
 
Nick Fitt wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is the ban is either here to stay or it is coming, so it is up to the business man to adapt or go out of business.
No, I don't think so.

Since: Feb 07

Myerstown, PA

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#11
Mar 15, 2008
 
"The Banality of Evil is a phrase coined in 1963 by Hannah Arendt in her work Eichmann in Jerusalem. It describes the thesis that the great evils in history generally, and the Holocaust in particular,were not executed by fanatics or sociopaths
but rather by ordinary people who accepted the premises of their state and therefore participated with the view that their actions were normal."
Bill Hannegan

Saint Louis, MO

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#12
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Bans-dont-hurt wrote:
Lived in NYC, and now live in KCMO, and I can say from personal experience that the bar scene will remain alive and well -- and will likely increase to some extent -- following the ban.
The one segment that the ban will hurt is the tobacco industry, which is why they're funding so heavily the so-called "business rights" lobby.
I ain't crying for Phillip Morris.
As far as the economic harm caused by smoking bans, I don't believe Big Tobacco or the American Cancer Society. I believe mom and pop bar owners across the country such as Joel Thiel, a bar owner who lost his health insurance, his house, and finally his bar to the Columbia smoking ban.
http://www.columbiatribune.com/2007/Dec/20071...
Anonymouse

Kitchener, Canada

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#13
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Bans-dont-hurt wrote:
Lived in NYC, and now live in KCMO, and I can say from personal experience that the bar scene will remain alive and well -- and will likely increase to some extent -- following the ban.
The one segment that the ban will hurt is the tobacco industry, which is why they're funding so heavily the so-called "business rights" lobby.
I ain't crying for Phillip Morris.
There was no loss of business anywhere in Canada when smoke free laws were passed. I think that's pretty much typical anywhere.

“Just Say No to Smoking Bans”

Since: Jul 07

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#14
Mar 15, 2008
 

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Anonymouse wrote:
<quoted text>
There was no loss of business anywhere in Canada when smoke free laws were passed. I think that's pretty much typical anywhere.
NO loss of business. I find that impossible to believe.
KHartman

Xenia, OH

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#15
Mar 15, 2008
 
Sheri wrote:
<quoted text>
NO loss of business. I find that impossible to believe.
Actual and perceived impacts of tobacco regulation on restaurants and firms

Pierre-Yves Crémieux, Pierre Ouellette
Department of Economics, Université du Québec à Montréal, Montréal, Québec, Canada

http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/cgi/content/abs...

"OBJECTIVE---To examine the actual and anticipated costs of a law regulating workplace smoking and smoking in restaurants, taking into consideration observed and anticipated infrastructure costs, lost productivity, increased absenteeism, and loss of clientele."

"CONCLUSION---Firms and restaurants expected high costs to result from strict tobacco regulation because of infrastructure costs, decreased productivity, and decreased patronage. That none of these were actually observed suggests that policy makers should discount industry claims that smoking regulations impose undue economic hardship."

Since: Feb 07

Myerstown, PA

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#16
Mar 16, 2008
 

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Known Ban Losses in Canada:

CANADA Acton Red Dog Cafe Restaurant Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax BB's Bar & Grill Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax Chatts Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax Harp & Hound Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax Puk & Beaver Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax Raven & Firkin Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax Sword and Stone Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax Taps Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax The Arctic Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ajax Thirsty Monk Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Alberta All rest, bar, bingo 40% Consumer prices are going to go up for menu items, Lindy Rollingson, president and CEO of the Alberta Restaurant and Foodservices Association, said yesterday. "There just isn't anywhere else to move."
CANADA Barrie Coffee Time Coffee Shop 50% 100%
CANADA Beauceville, QC Paul Toulouse Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Cambridge Bud's Place Tavern 23% 5
CANADA Castlegar Gardeli's Bar/Restaurant Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Chamberlain Ralph's Place Restaurant/ Diner 75% Jackie Bradley, Owner says,“There is no future here.”
CANADA Chatham Eightball VIP Sports Cafe Sports Bar 40% 2
CANADA Country Various Places various www. pubcoalition. com/ Bars and pubs sales were reduced: 23.5% in Ottawa, 18.7% in London, 24.3% in Kingston and 20.4% in Kitchener.
CANADA Crescentwood Tubbys Pizza Pizza Parlor 20% 2
CANADA Dunnville nastys Sports Bar 37%
CANADA Edmonton Bingo Halls Charity 50% In the first 6 months of the ban.
CANADA Edmonton Epcor Café & Deli Café Closed 100% 100% "The place used to be packed with smokers every morning until the bylaw came in."
CANADA Edmonton Jimmy Ray's Sports Bar & Lounge Bar Closed 100% Business had been down 30 to 35 per-cent each month
CANADA Edmonton Pucks at Coliseum Inn Bar 18 jobs The bar is now closed on Monday and Tuesday nights.
CANADA Edmonton Sherlock Holmes Pub and The Rose & Crown Pub Bars 40% Manager Pat Tarbox reported loss. Tarbox's hubby butts up against smoke ban. It's hurting his bar business says man who was married to anti-smoking crusader.
CANADA Edmonton The Moose Factory Restaurant 35% Tom Goodchild said it's devastating, and had to lay off employees.
CANADA Fort St. John Alexander Mackenzie Inn Hotel 92% 16 "Since we were `beaten' into compliance by the WCB, our business has dropped in the lounge from $1,000 a day to $80. "
CANADA Gander Father's Place 40% My business is down 40 per cent and everyone's in the same boat. I haven't come across one person who hasn't lost revenue, so we have to do something. This is important to everyone right across the province.
CANADA Girardville Martine St-Froze Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Goose Bay Happy Valley Nightclub Closed 100% 100% After the smoking ban, it was like somebody turned on a light. It was just nobody there – absolutely nobody, said Lethbridge.

Since: Feb 07

Myerstown, PA

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Mar 16, 2008
 

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CONTINUED:

CANADA Halifax Stage Nine Bar & Grill Closed 100% 100% The owners blamed the smoking ban.
CANADA Inuvik Inuvik Curling Club Private Club 66% The president of Inuvik's Curling Club predicts it will lose $40,000 by the end of the year, and says the town's smoking by-law is to blame.
CANADA Johnstown Bingo International 43 Charities Closed 100% Goodwin said the final straw was the province wide smoking ban.
CANADA Kingston Larry's Pit Stop Tavern 49% 1
CANADA Kitchener Mingles Coffee Shoppe Coffee Shop Closed 100% 100% Before Closing, Mingles saw a 45% drop in sales.
CANADA Laval, QC L'Amical Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Markham Coffee Time Coffee Shop Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Midland Cellarman's Alehouse Tavern 35% Friday nights used to generate $2,400-$3,100 before the smoking ban. Since the ban those numbers dropped to $900-$1,400.
CANADA Montreal Davidoff Cigar Store Closed 100% 100%
CANADA New Brunswick Various Places 24% Pubs and bars in New Brunswick suffered a 24% drop in liquor sales in the first month of a ban similar to the one passed in Ontario.
CANADA Niagara Region Literacy Council Charity Bingo Closed 100% 100% Now pleading with the public for cash.
CANADA Ontario 250 various pubs pubs Closed 100% 100% Newsletter article page #3806
CANADA Ontario Tourist Spending 7%
CANADA Ontario Various Places 25% Sales at the average Ontario pub, bar and nightclub have fallen by 25% and 4,100 jobs have been lost in this sector.
CANADA Oshawa Flying Squirrel Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Oshawa Konfusions Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Oshawa Micky Finns Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Oshawa Queen's Hotel Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Oshawa The Castle Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Oshawa The Wall Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Oshawa Winchester Arms (2 locations) Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Ottawa Beacon Hill Arms Tavern Closed 100% 100% Dave O'Connor, who successfully ran Ottawa's Beacon Hill Arms pub for nine years, said the ban forced him out of business. "From September to February, we lost close to $80,000 in sales"

Since: Feb 07

Myerstown, PA

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#18
Mar 16, 2008
 
CONTINUED:

CANADA Ottawa Hemingway's Bar/Restaraunt 40% 6
CANADA Ottawa Sky Garden Restaurant Closed 100% 100%/ 6 "It was 100% because of the bylaw. Sales dropped 50%. Our cups of coffee were down 400 to 500 a day, our meals 20 to 30 a day."
CANADA Owen Sound Beach Brothers Bar Closed 100% 100% There were only 3 bars in a city with almost 22,000, with a small college. This makes the count of bars at 2, with this historical building being built and used since 1887 as a hotel.
CANADA Pickering Melanie Pringles Restaurant/Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Polo Park Branigan's Tavern Closed 100% 100%/ 50
CANADA Portage la Prairie Royal Canadian Legion Branch No. 65 Club 30%“It’ll make a big hole in the community,” branch president Keith Hutchinson said.
CANADA Prince Rupert Rupert Pub Tavern Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Regina Casinos 33% To counter the impact of the ban, the gaming corporation increased advertising and hired more staff, resulting in a 14 per cent increase in expenses.
CANADA Riverton Sandy Bar Hotel Hotel Closed 100% 100% Rob Charrier said he was forced to close, had been open since 1947.
CANADA Saskatchewan Confederation Bingo Bingo Closed 100% I'm guessing they're sitting at home, having a cigarette at home and finding other forms of entertainment, said Randy Gudmundson.
CANADA Saskatoon Royal Canadian Legion Bar 50% He says even the non-smokers have stopped coming because they can't hang out with their smoking buddies.
CANADA St. Albert The Patch Tavern 70%
CANADA St. Thomas Burty Bob's Bar Closed 100% Daniels blamed inequitable enforcement of the city’s smoking ban.
CANADA St-Hubert, QC Le Brooklyn Bar Closed 100% 100%
CANADA Thunder Bay Empire Hotel Hotel 40%“I am doing the best that I can considering my limited space to work with to accommodate my customers and to help my business survive. It seems to me that our city council is not interested in supporting us in any way.”
swayler

United States

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#20
Mar 16, 2008
 
yes it will check out what has happened in minnesota, its a mess, we have seen the effect first hand as it would be, bars closing and sales of 20% and more.
Linda

Dayton, OH

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#21
Mar 16, 2008
 
don't believe their lies. Look at the real true facts such as this one. Kelly has closed because of the ban
http://www.whiotv.com/video/13426520/index.ht...

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