Gathering Place: Oahu must look forward

There are 20 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from Jul 29, 2008, titled Gathering Place: Oahu must look forward. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

Early in the 1950s, Kailua town was experiencing rapid growth as a suburb of Honolulu.

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Cat Manapua

Saint George, UT

#1 Jul 29, 2008
You're right, Dick. Honolulu is indeed better off with those roads and tunnels because they actually work to reduce traffic congestion.

Maybe a few more roads (or lanes at least)would also help - you know, keep up with demand?

And yes, we will indeed be better off in 20 years not having to pay millions and millions in annual subsidies to fund a train that goes nowhere and which no one rides.
Lot of sense

Kamuela, HI

#3 Jul 29, 2008
Absolutely right! Build it now, tune out the cranks and whiners.
manini

Honolulu, HI

#4 Jul 29, 2008
Richard Berry's main argument seems to be that no one saw the need to vote on the various projects he mentions. What he neglects is that none of those projects cost the taxpayer anywhere near what rail will cost us to build and even more to maintain. None of those projects had the possibility of bankrupting us as the rail project will.
To put it another way, he's comparing apples to oranges.
TrafficMess

Newark, CA

#5 Jul 29, 2008
Problem is Oahu is full. This clown is "looking forward" in the way a city in the Mainland that has no geographical borders and can forever expand outward will look forward.

The Landfills are full.
The Water is tapped out.
Roads are gridlocked.
Sewage systems are at capacity.

Everyone admits Rail will not help traffic.

So look forward and get smart. Don't just copy the "mainland" when it won't work on a maxed out island. Make the changes necessary to improve traffic without bankrupting the taxpayers.
Kapaa

Wahiawa, HI

#6 Jul 29, 2008
TrafficMess wrote:
Problem is Oahu is full. This clown is "looking forward" in the way a city in the Mainland that has no geographical borders and can forever expand outward will look forward.
The Landfills are full.
The Water is tapped out.
Roads are gridlocked.
Sewage systems are at capacity.
Everyone admits Rail will not help traffic.
So look forward and get smart. Don't just copy the "mainland" when it won't work on a maxed out island. Make the changes necessary to improve traffic without bankrupting the taxpayers.
Now this is exactly what has happened,Mahalo
Traffic relief

Mililani, HI

#7 Jul 29, 2008
The entire article is grossly misleading!

The author states Likelike Hwy and H-3 was built and provided relief and were good for the people commuters. Very true because both highways were good solutions and provided traffic relief.

Well, Rail in West Oahu does NOT provide traffic relief which is the only single important reason to build mass transit. Rail does NOT provide relief...and will cost $7.0 Billion and counting....Definitely NOT a solution.
Yellow Dog

Honolulu, HI

#8 Jul 29, 2008
Take the three projects in question, do a present value calculation (inflation adjustment) and you'll find those cost more than the projected $3.7 billion (and don't forget to add in H-3).

The train will take thousands of cars off the road and take people from the fastest growing area to primary destinations: downtown and the business district, and eventually, to UH and from the airport to Waikiki.

It's a train a large percentage of the population will ride to and from the most important commuting destinations.

The mantra that rail will not help traffic is patently false. Traffic congestion will be significantly less with rail. Think about it this way: if everyone riding BART or the Portland light rail system was forced to take their cars instead, those cities would experience lock-down gridlock. I'm glad we won't have to endure that here, thanks to the upcoming rail project.
Traffic Mess

Newark, CA

#9 Jul 29, 2008
Yellow Dog wrote:
The train will take thousands of cars off the road and take people from the fastest growing The mantra that rail will not help traffic is patently false.
WRONG!

That argument only works AFTER RAIL IS BUILT!!!!!

Rail will only justify MORE development in West Oahu. Mufi said it himself. Then you will be right back where you are today, gridlocked.

Oahu has bigger problems.

Landfills are full.
Water wells are tapped out.
Sewage is at capacity.
Population density leading to rage, drugs, homelessness.

Rail WILL NOT TAKE CARS OFF THE ROAD. Most people admit that. They will stay in their AC/MP3/GPS/BLUETOOTHCELLPHONE/ STEREO automobiles and hope that everyone else rides the communist mover.
Pat

Kailua, HI

#10 Jul 29, 2008
It is unfortunate that some of these decisions weren't put to a vote. Hawaii Kai is over developed. The character of Kailua is changing, less affordable and to West Coast. The over development of the west Oahu is the cause of the traffic. The rail will NOT solve the traffic congestion problem.
Phil Musgrave

Warren, NJ

#11 Jul 29, 2008
Mr. Berry makes some good points. Still, it would be nice if the new rail system at least had a target date for service to Waimanalo-Kailua-Kaneohe. Even the current buses provide only minimal service and are insufficient for the needs of many Windward residents.
Local Afar

Lindome, Sweden

#12 Jul 29, 2008
The author says that "The state-of-the-art, steel-rail-based mass transit technology ... is a 21st-century solution now being actively adopted in more than 150 congested cities around the world... No technology offers a lower coefficient of friction and resulting economy of operation than steel wheels on steel rails."

How many of those (still very congested) cities have elevated guideways 90 feet above ground in residential areas on a small island? How many have rail that serves only a very small percentage of residents living in the suburbs? How many of them don't go to the destinations most needed by riders? Aren't most of those rail systems at the ground level or underground?

State of the art technology? I don't think so. "Low coefficient of friction" sounds like a euphemism for "quiet". Yet in March we were told: "Honolulu is on track to pick the oldest, noisiest technology for a planned $3.7 billion commuter rail line connecting East Kapolei to Ala Moana Center." The Mayor agreed that there would be noise issues. The price quote has risen substantially in a few months.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/200...

Federal money paid for 80% of the H3. It took 30 years to build. It was primarily designed for use by the military. The H1, H2 and many other Oahu roads have been poorly planned and badly maintained. In a time when it seems politicians and beaurocrats can't do anything but point the finger, scheme, collect their paychecks, go to meetings, and come up with airy fairy solutions, the people who are going to have to pay for more mass transit deserve to say how their money will be spent.
Grunt

Waipahu, HI

#15 Jul 29, 2008
TrafficMess wrote:
Problem is Oahu is full. This clown is "looking forward" in the way a city in the Mainland that has no geographical borders and can forever expand outward will look forward.
The Landfills are full.
The Water is tapped out.
Roads are gridlocked.
Sewage systems are at capacity.
Everyone admits Rail will not help traffic.
So look forward and get smart. Don't just copy the "mainland" when it won't work on a maxed out island. Make the changes necessary to improve traffic without bankrupting the taxpayers.
We have too many "invasive species" from the mainland and Asia. Traffic Mess does not provide a solution to this "maxed out island". There was a moratorium not to expand or build anymore houses on the windward side or east Honolulu so the only place was west Oahu. Let's build more homes in these area and help to diminish the congestion in west Oahu.

Since: Jun 08

Honolulu, HI

#17 Jul 29, 2008
Dear Richard,

Perhaps those "needing" to commute would better serve Oahu, Hawaii, the environment and everyone for that matter if they just moved closer to their commute destinations or bus friendly routes, etc.

I'd be willing to bet YOU would be one of the "MOST" that won't be riding the rail.

Yes?
Isle Republican

Honolulu, HI

#18 Jul 29, 2008
The difference is the rail is the most expensive project ever in Hawaii's history which is why there should be a vote.
Vote for Ann

United States

#19 Jul 29, 2008
Isle Republican wrote:
The difference is the rail is the most expensive project ever in Hawaii's history which is why there should be a vote.
Wow, I've posted replies to you on other forums under another name. I am not a Republican but I sure agree with you about Mufi's folly.
Isle Republican

Honolulu, HI

#20 Jul 30, 2008
Vote for Ann wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, I've posted replies to you on other forums under another name. I am not a Republican but I sure agree with you about Mufi's folly.
HUH? On this site or on another site? I'm a regular on the Honolulu Advertiser forum,too. Anyway, thanks for agreeing with me even though you're not a Republican..Cool.
Bush Solution

Mililani, HI

#21 Jul 30, 2008
Yellow Dog wrote:
Take the three projects in question, do a present value calculation (inflation adjustment) and you'll find those cost more than the projected $3.7 billion (and don't forget to add in H-3).
The train will take thousands of cars off the road and take people from the fastest growing area to primary destinations: downtown and the business district, and eventually, to UH and from the airport to Waikiki.
It's a train a large percentage of the population will ride to and from the most important commuting destinations.
The mantra that rail will not help traffic is patently false. Traffic congestion will be significantly less with rail. Think about it this way: if everyone riding BART or the Portland light rail system was forced to take their cars instead, those cities would experience lock-down gridlock. I'm glad we won't have to endure that here, thanks to the upcoming rail project.
Wake up. Mufi said Rail will NOT provide traiif relief. The city study shows numbers that Rail will worsen traffic.
Now Pres. Bush is pushing HOT.

Bush Calls for New Highway Tolls, More Private Funding of Roads,
Christopher Conkey, WSJ, 7/30/08
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1217377110766...
alice

Honolulu, HI

#22 Jul 30, 2008
Rail is dead..now let us all get real and get a fundable plan.
dudealohajoe

United States

#23 Jul 30, 2008
yuppers
Heavy Rail

Mililani, HI

#24 Jul 30, 2008
Cat Manapua wrote:
You're right, Dick. Honolulu is indeed better off with those roads and tunnels because they actually work to reduce traffic congestion.
Maybe a few more roads (or lanes at least)would also help - you know, keep up with demand?
And yes, we will indeed be better off in 20 years not having to pay millions and millions in annual subsidies to fund a train that goes nowhere and which no one rides.
The Mufi agrees and the city's AA study shows the $6.0 Billion Rail is not a Solution, not an acceptable alternative because it implies rail is a solution). Rail will worsen congestion, require more cars on roads, more pollution, higher cost of gas, more time wasted on crowded highways, more parking and congestion downtown.
HOT Lanes is the SOLUTION which reduces congestion by 35 percent; cost $600 million, at least fifty percent funded by Fed FHWA. Tolls for Single Occupant Vehicles (SOVs) will vary from 50 cents to $3.00, depending on level of traffic on the HOT.
Pres Bush is totally supporting HOT: Bush Calls for New Highway Tolls, More Private Funding of Roads,
Christopher Conkey, WSJ, 7/30/08
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1217377110766...

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