ACLU objects to school choirs at chur...

ACLU objects to school choirs at church concert

There are 23 comments on the KRAV-FM Tulsa story from Dec 5, 2013, titled ACLU objects to school choirs at church concert. In it, KRAV-FM Tulsa reports that:

Three high school choirs in northwestern Montana plan to participate in Christmas concerts at the Mormon church in Kalispell despite protests from the American Civil Liberties Union and the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KRAV-FM Tulsa.

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Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#1 Dec 6, 2013
Jewish dominated ACLU agenda against Christianity. They never stop attacking Christians, even going after them in schools now. Sick Jewish religious warfare.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#2 Dec 9, 2013
Do you know why Jews don't so often run afoul of the Establishment clause?

Because they don't recruit. That's why. They also, as an historic religious minority, know better than others the dangers of mixing religion and politics.

Your comment evidences a deep and abiding prejudice against jews, of course, but it also displays a shocking ignorance of the law and the role of the ACLU.

Here are some of the other cases the Jews of the ACLU have handled, ones people like you pretend don't exist.

http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com

Your opinions seem to be long on prejudice and rather short on facts.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#3 Dec 9, 2013
Hey, when the Jewish agenda dominated ACLU addresses U.S. government officers elected to uphold the Constitution's Separation of Church and State when it comes to U.S. support for the establishment of a religion, the Jewish religion being established by force of arms in Palestine against Palestinian human rights. The ACLU is silent about Jewish Zionists as 5th Columnists in the U.S. working for a foreign government-Israel, against U.S. interests. The establishment of a Jewish state using American tax-payer monies and military violates the U.C. Constitution's guarantee that our government will not be used to establish any religion and that include Judaism. Look at the flag of Israel to confirm Israel is being established as a Jewish state and that when paid for by American taxpayers commits the ACLU to stopping this abuse of religion. And they don't ever act on this which tells us what religion is running ACLU's political agenda.

As for the ACLU Christian cases, why don't we see these in the news? What we see continually are news stories about ACLU blocking Christian Christmas celebrations and that's just too Grinch and smacking of anti-Christian politics too be condoned.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#4 Dec 9, 2013
Ok, you do know that the US Constitution doesn't apply in the Middle East, right?

So that the stupid Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn't have anything to do with American constitutional law.

At all.

And so the ACLU, which is an American civil liberties organization, has nothing to do with foreign policy?

I can see that further discourse with your is pointless, as you are just another Jew-crazed loon.

The cases you mention are in the news. It's just not the kind of news benighted bigots like you pay any attention to. So go back to Fox News and your case of Bud Light.

Untutored pleb.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#5 Dec 9, 2013
The U.S. Constitution applies to every U.S. citizen including citizens in the armed forces. If they are breaking Constitutional law in another country that in no way makes it legal. I hear nothing from ACLU protecting U.S. citizens from Zionist Jewish exploitation of U.S. taxes and military being used to establish a Jewish state. It's illegal and only because watchdog organizations such as ACLU are being bought off by Jewish protection of Israel that I have to even make a case that should be obvious to anyone who really cares about protecting Constitutional rights. Even when our government hides the crimes overseas.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#6 Dec 11, 2013
Actually, you're wrong.

Civil rights, especially those enshrined in the Bill of Rights, apply differently in military contexts - for obvious reasons.

The ACLU is only interested in preserving civil righs domestically because THAT IS WHERE THEY APPLY. Just like the NRA is only interested in guns. Do you criticize the NRA for sticking to their agenda and not lobbying for space exploration?

Also, when you go into that 'Zionist" and "Jew" rant, your credibility sinks to zero. You label yourself as just another Neo-Nazi conspiracy kook not worth listening to.

You criticize the ACLU for doing something that is completely outside their zone of interest and responsinbility, because you conflate THAT wacko theory with your other (false) wacko theory about the ACLU being a front for anti-Christian Jews.

Sorry but that is just total crap and the record of the ACLU clearly demonstrates it is false.

What is obvious here is that you need to start getting your informtion from more reliable sources, and not just ones that validate your ingrained prejudice.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#7 Dec 11, 2013
Strel, whenever there's a news piece about ACLU in ANY paper or internet news it's almost like 95% chance that it's going to be atheists objecting to a Christian religious ritual or symbol or whatever. Your stack of cases supporting Christians ability to demonstrate their beliefs in public don't seem to make the news? Why is that?

And as your NRA diversion, why don't you try NSA and all the shiite they're in precisely because they've gone far beyond their authorized political mandate and are actively upsetting international relationships. And that affects every U.S. citizen. So don't tell me this crapola that ACLU can't address how U.S. Zionist supporting 5th Columnist in our government orchestrating U.S. taxpayer support for establishing a religious state, Israel. Doesn't matter where the religious state is being set up. What matters is that U.S. taxpayers are being compelled to pay for it, to pay for establishing Jewish religious state. The crime is being committed in America so you're wrong and making apologies for ACLU in order to avoid moral their responsibility to protect U.S. citizens from government breaking Constitutional law prohibiting the establishment of any religion.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#8 Dec 11, 2013
can't edit on topix so excuse the typos..
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#9 Dec 12, 2013
biomystic wrote:
Strel, whenever there's a news piece about ACLU in ANY paper or internet news it's almost like 95% chance that it's going to be atheists objecting to a Christian religious ritual or symbol or whatever. Your stack of cases supporting Christians ability to demonstrate their beliefs in public don't seem to make the news? Why is that?
And as your NRA diversion, why don't you try NSA and all the shiite they're in precisely because they've gone far beyond their authorized political mandate and are actively upsetting international relationships. And that affects every U.S. citizen. So don't tell me this crapola that ACLU can't address how U.S. Zionist supporting 5th Columnist in our government orchestrating U.S. taxpayer support for establishing a religious state, Israel. Doesn't matter where the religious state is being set up. What matters is that U.S. taxpayers are being compelled to pay for it, to pay for establishing Jewish religious state. The crime is being committed in America so you're wrong and making apologies for ACLU in order to avoid moral their responsibility to protect U.S. citizens from government breaking Constitutional law prohibiting the establishment of any religion.
Let me see if I can explain this again, as an very much NON-Jewish ACLU supporter.

Christianity is far and away the majority religion in the US. Because of THAT, MOST of the cases involving the Establishment clause SHOULD involve Christianity. Same follows for Free Exercise. Because there are SO MANY MORE Christians than other religions, there are more Free Exercise cases involving Christians.

It's simple demographics. No conspiracy necessary. And if those cases don't make the news, whose fault is that? Those cases are real, they exist. If you believe otherwise, prove it.

I notice you don't crtiticize the NRA for being mainly composed of white guys. Does that fact mean that their constitutional argument are invali? So even IF the ACLU was run by Jews (which it is not), that says nothing about the validity of their legal arguments.

Anyway the ACLU doesn't have anything to do with our support for Israel in the same way the NRA doesn't care about the 5th amendment. It's outside their charter and their zone of interest. Your arguments only show that you really don't understand that the ACLU does, at all.

You also have no clue regarding the applicability of the Establishment clause. The connection you imply does not exist in American jurisprudence.

I've already explained how the ACLU has nothing to do with foreign policy very much. You are apparently infected with the same conspiracy theorist disorder as many Neo-Nazis on the Internet are.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#10 Dec 12, 2013
And you are infected with the same AIPAC/ADL character assassination smearing of anyone criticizing Zionist influence all over U.S. foreign policies. Typical way to avoid moral responsibility and that is my whole point. If ACLU was seriously interested in protecting Americans against U.S. government breaking the prohibition against using American government for establishing a religion, they would see through the phony ruse that you have bought into that tries to say, "oh, the Constitution can be broken simply by committing the crimes overseas." That's just pure bullshite and I don't accept it for a minute. It's the government's pulling the wool over Americans regarding Israel. The crime is being committed in Washington, D.C. so makes it well within the jurisprudence of American Constitutional law and ACLU supposed venue. The sooner we break this Zionist conspiracy to use Americans to fund the establishment of Israel, the sooner the world can breathe easier and the sooner Zionist caused wars with Muslims will end and peoples' lives saved. Help me wake up ACLU instead of acting the protector of criminals in government.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#11 Dec 13, 2013
I already made it clear I'm not Jewish. In fact, I am often disturbed by our seemingly unconditional support for Israel. I think Benjamin Netanyahu is a flaming asshole.

So you if your looking for a "Zionist stooge" you haven't found one here.

Your assignment of responsibility for foreign policy to the ACLU is illogical and misguided. There is VERY LITTLE an organization could even do in that regard, since that function lives mostly in the executive branch and civil rights statutes don't cover that territory.

This is what you do not understand. You assume a legal connection that does not exist.

As for your Zionist Conspiracy crap, once again, going there just makes you look like a kook.
truth be told

Villanova, PA

#12 Dec 13, 2013
Strel wrote:
Actually, you're wrong.
Civil rights, especially those enshrined in the Bill of Rights, apply differently in military contexts - for obvious reasons.
The ACLU is only interested in preserving civil righs domestically because THAT IS WHERE THEY APPLY. Just like the NRA is only interested in guns. Do you criticize the NRA for sticking to their agenda and not lobbying for space exploration?
Also, when you go into that 'Zionist" and "Jew" rant, your credibility sinks to zero. You label yourself as just another Neo-Nazi conspiracy kook not worth listening to.
You criticize the ACLU for doing something that is completely outside their zone of interest and responsinbility, because you conflate THAT wacko theory with your other (false) wacko theory about the ACLU being a front for anti-Christian Jews.
Sorry but that is just total crap and the record of the ACLU clearly demonstrates it is false.
What is obvious here is that you need to start getting your informtion from more reliable sources, and not just ones that validate your ingrained prejudice.
The ACLU are nothing more then a bunch of Nazi's,they steal and rob most of their dirty money from schools (That's a fact) by suing the schools all the time,they know the schools are afraid of being sued for big bucks so they settle with them for smaller amounts.The ACLU are no better then bullies who steal lunch money from school kids,they also have Pedophiles working for them and that's a fact,when it is called to their attention they simply transfer them to another office. They have saved many of these child molesters from going to where they belong,JAIL because of technicalities or loop holes if you will. They are the scum of the earth and if I ever meet one, I will spit right in their face! Lets look at illegal aliens,if they come into our country illegally they should be deprorted period,but the ACLU defends them and cost us the tax payers millions of dollars each year,the only good ACLU member is a dead one,
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#13 Dec 13, 2013
I see this thread has atracted the usual crowd of frothing, prejudiced and ignorant kooks.

The ACLU occassionally wins attorney's fee awards in civil rights cases. This constitutes a tiny, tiny fraction of their funding, the vast majority of which comes from private donors.

If a school settles, that's their call and their lawyer's call. If they don't want to be sued or threatened with suit, they can just start obeyingthe Constitution of the United States and there will be no problem, eh?

The problem occurs when people like YOU get into school administration and make stupid, asinine and unconstitutional acts.

The pedophile thing is just complete horsehit.

You want to spit in my face then? Better pack a lunch, junior, because I'll kick your ass.

In court, and out of it too.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#14 Dec 13, 2013
Strel, name-calling doesn't hide the facts: ACLU promotes the Jewish anti-Christian agenda: Here's the latest attack on Christian believers.

Giant cross monument must be removed from Southern California mountain
By Daniel S Levine, 12/13/2013

A giant cross monument that has stood atop a mountain in San Diego must be removed because it violates the separation of church and state, a judge said.

The 43-foot tall cross stands on Mt. Soledad in San Diego and there have been legal battles over its status dating back to 1989. According to CNN, U.S. District Judge Larry Burns gave the city 90 days to remove it, although if there is an appeal, it could stay up during that process.

Back in 1954, the cross was first put up to honor veterans of the Korean War. However, in 1989, two veterans of the war filed a lawsuit, claiming it was in violation of California’s “No Preference” clause in the state constitution. Then, the city tried to sell the land to the Mount Soledad Memorial Association in an effort to keep the monument up, although those attempts were stopped in court.

According to the New York Times, the federal government later took ownership of the land in 2006, claiming eminent domain to try to save the monument again. In 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit said it violated the First Amendment, though and the Supreme court opted not to hear the case.

“This is a win for religious liberty,” Daniel Mach of the ACLU said after Thursday’s ruling.“The government can and should honor those who served and died for this country, but not by playing favorites with faiths.”

Daniel Mach: Jewish. Writer of this article-Jewish. Myself: Jewish. If Jews can't criticize Jews, who else has greater right?
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#15 Dec 16, 2013
biomystic wrote:
Strel, name-calling doesn't hide the facts: ACLU promotes the Jewish anti-Christian agenda: Here's the latest attack on Christian believers.
Giant cross monument must be removed from Southern California mountain
By Daniel S Levine, 12/13/2013
A giant cross monument that has stood atop a mountain in San Diego must be removed because it violates the separation of church and state, a judge said.
The 43-foot tall cross stands on Mt. Soledad in San Diego and there have been legal battles over its status dating back to 1989. According to CNN, U.S. District Judge Larry Burns gave the city 90 days to remove it, although if there is an appeal, it could stay up during that process.
Back in 1954, the cross was first put up to honor veterans of the Korean War. However, in 1989, two veterans of the war filed a lawsuit, claiming it was in violation of California’s “No Preference” clause in the state constitution. Then, the city tried to sell the land to the Mount Soledad Memorial Association in an effort to keep the monument up, although those attempts were stopped in court.
According to the New York Times, the federal government later took ownership of the land in 2006, claiming eminent domain to try to save the monument again. In 2011, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit said it violated the First Amendment, though and the Supreme court opted not to hear the case.
“This is a win for religious liberty,” Daniel Mach of the ACLU said after Thursday’s ruling.“The government can and should honor those who served and died for this country, but not by playing favorites with faiths.”
Daniel Mach: Jewish. Writer of this article-Jewish. Myself: Jewish. If Jews can't criticize Jews, who else has greater right?
You have a very loose definition of "fact." You are also woefully ignorant of how we protect religious liberty in this county. I'll give you a little hint: the rules apply to Christians too, whether we like it or not.

You also have no understanding of the motivations behind ACLU cases, on top of merely ignoring the many, many cases I already cited that prove your assertions completely wrong.

People like you are not interested in the truth, you cherry-pick reality to justify your prejudice, ignorance and bigotry.

Make sure you check under your bed for Joos tonight. You never know!

Anyway I really don't care what religion you claim to be. You are just factually wrong, severly misguided and unfortunately carry the same pernicious ignorance usually associated with anti-Semitic Internet loudmouth koos.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#16 Dec 16, 2013
Your name-calling AIPAC/ADL style to criticize me only confirms the Jewish influence dominating ACLU political agenda. You are ethically-challenged when you fail to understand Every institution and organization is always judged by its weakest link that shows the fatal flaws in the organizational system. ACLU's is their inability to let Christians practice their faith in public wherever they are as free citizens allowed freedom of religion in America. In effect, ACLU represents Atheists and they are a religiously minded group whose philosophy rests exactly as any religious fundamentalists, on denial of any facts contradicting the religiously held mindset. I don't want atheists having their religious beliefs practiced on my dime and time. I don't want Christians attacked by us Jews on my dime and time.

Just wake up to your moral responsibility and you won't get these angry responses to ACLU antics that hurt innocent believers and make money for a bunch of mean-spirited atheists.
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#17 Dec 17, 2013
Well people like you are like that, aren't you? It does not matter what kind of input you get, it all serves to validate your kooky paranoia.

Once again, here is a nice long list of cases where the ACLU did exactly the opposite of what you say they are doing. These cases prove you wrong. http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com

I get angry responses to ACLU "antics" from people who are, as you have proven yourself here to be, prejudiced and perniciously ignorant.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#18 Dec 17, 2013
Strel, you morally challenged individual, it matters not a whit if ACLU produces cases showing protection of Christian believer's rights to demonstrate their beliefs in public. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link and when we Christians see the public display of ACLU we see ACLU attacking Christian believers rights to be Christians--That's what's coming through the media to us to define ACLU policy. That is ACLU's weakest link that destroys all the credibility of the good stuff you claim to do. Fix the bad links which means as far as this Christian is concerned lay off the whole Jewish atheist anti-Christian belief system that pervades ACLU people regardless of being Jews or not. Show us the Christian equality in membership on ACLU b.o.d, Strel, that would prove your case..
Strel

Tallahassee, FL

#19 Dec 18, 2013
Let me see if I can translate your post.

You don't care about the facts.

You cherry pick single incidents, misinterpret them for your purposes, and then also act as if they represent the whole.

You have zero understanding of the motivations or legal issues involved, and form all your opinions based on right wing op-ed pieces ands blogs - I am reasonably sure you have never even read an actual case or court opinion.

You don't seem to grasp even the basics of First amendment religion law - that there are TWO CLAUSES and the ACLU defends them BOTH.

You keep wanting to focus on membership composition, well guess what, the ACLU doesn't track that since it would be an invasion of donor privacy. Why would they care?

All I know is that I know as many Christians in the ACLU as Jews, and that all of your assertions are just plain wrong.

Educate yourself, this time try to use some objective sources - like reading the court opinions and understanding the issues - because it is very clear that you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Since: Nov 12

Eureka, CA

#20 Dec 18, 2013
Let me see if I can translate your post.
You don't care about the facts.
Bio: slander. not reasoned argument.
You cherry pick single incidents, misinterpret them for your purposes, and then also act as if they represent the whole.
Bio: You deliberately misrepresent my case which I stated that it is the Logic that a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. "Cherry picking" means for us Christians reading the papers because if ACLU is doing good stuff for us, why the ADDED smear of Public Christian cases? You're committing religious bigotry by these weakest link Christians public eye exposure cases that you are defending as if nothing is wrong. If nothing were wrong you wouldn't be getting so much of the same complaint of bias against Christians.
You have zero understanding of the motivations or legal issues involved, and form all your opinions based on right wing op-ed pieces ands blogs - I am reasonably sure you have never even read an actual case or court opinion.
Bio: Diversion from my criticism with more slander. You are so bigoted you you don't understand a liberal JEWISH Christian can complain about ACLU anti-Christian bias as much as any Evangelical Christian. And please, please, do not even think the Jewish atheist smear, "You can't be Jewish if you're Christian." Tell that one to Jesus..
You don't seem to grasp even the basics of First amendment religion law - that there are TWO CLAUSES and the ACLU defends them BOTH.
Bio: More diversion. This is what I'm concerned about: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,
With every dollar asked for by our Executive Office and voted by Congress that goes directly to finance Israel, the Officially Proclaimed Jewish State, our U.S. government breaks the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. Why? Because the crime is not being committed in Israel but right here in America, in Washington, D.C. That's where the criminals, our 5th Columnists working for Israel's interests and not America's, are committing the crime. Not Israel, but right here. I do not buy either the ACLU's or your flimsy diversion excuses for not addressing this issue and addressing right from 1948 where the other big crime was committed, the breaking of the U.N.'s own Charter protecting the Right of Indigenous Populations for Self-Determination. You're excused from that moral battle but not the one here, where the breaking of the 1st Amendment is being done.
You keep wanting to focus on membership composition, well guess what, the ACLU doesn't track that since it would be an invasion of donor privacy. Why would they care?
Bio: What? Well, I care! What a lunatic policy that would be! And I don't believe it for a second it's so cockamammy whacko. You could be infested with agents and never know if you never checked your membership composition. That's just gotta be a lie you're trying slip by here. Any perceived "radical" organization would check for infiltrators.
All I know is that I know as many Christians in the ACLU as Jews, and that all of your assertions are just plain wrong.
Bio: There, you just said it and don't know it--Christian population of America: 78.4% Jewish population of America: 2%, so if you know an equal number of Christians in the ACLU as Jews...well, do the math. I rest my case.
Strel,(struck by the hammer of Christian BIOLOGIC, doesn't know he lost the argument as he cut and pastes atheist illogical waste): Educate yourself, this time try to use some objective sources - like reading the court opinions and understanding the issues - because it is very clear that you have no idea what the hell you are talking about.
Bio:(smirk)

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