Age takes a toll on temple - News

Age takes a toll on temple - News

There are 41 comments on the Honolulu Star-Bulletin story from Dec 8, 2008, titled Age takes a toll on temple - News. In it, Honolulu Star-Bulletin reports that:

WAILUKU Hawaii is in danger of losing some of its most historically significant buildings, including a Shinto shrine on Maui, warns the nonprofit Historic Hawai'i Foundation.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Honolulu Star-Bulletin.

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Chris

Port Saint Lucie, FL

#1 Dec 8, 2008
The really sad part of this story is the increasingly common situation where some place of worship cannot be maintained because there aren't enough believers left to do the job. This doesn't seem to be confined to any one religion or place.
Hmmmm

Lahaina, HI

#2 Dec 8, 2008
I agree.
Omama

Livingston, CA

#3 Dec 8, 2008
The second and third generation of Japanese immigrants don't care anymore about their real history and culture because they've all convinced themselves that they are Neo-faux-Hawaiian-Lites.

Being too involved with Japanese immigrant religious structures irritates them because it reminds them that they are just another temporary immigrant to these Hawaiian lands and not the fake Hawaiian they, and many other immigrant races, try to be.

Sad if you ask me.
Kikuko

Kaneohe, HI

#4 Dec 8, 2008
It's not only beleivers. Evidently the business community, the political community, the Japanese American community, civic groups, and the descendants of those who built the shrine don't place much interest or value in this historic building either. But come on. We're not talking the Vatican here. This is a small, simple, one story structure on a grassy lot. If people don't annually take care of dry rot, carpenter ants, termites, rust and paint, then sooner or later they're gonna have to tear it down and start again. No shame. Best tool for this job is a bulldozer. Save what can be saved including the blueprints, and either haul the remains away or have a nice bonfire. Then hold a fundraiser and get the community to build a simple replica.
Omama

Livingston, CA

#5 Dec 8, 2008
Kikuko wrote:
But come on. We're not talking the Vatican here. No shame. Best tool for this job is a bulldozer. Save what can be saved including the blueprints, and either haul the remains away or have a nice bonfire. Then hold a fundraiser and get the community to build a simple replica.
Hahahahah.

No Shame? Plenty Shame.

That's like your families oldest heirlooms are rubbish because they are well,.. old, dusty, damaged etc. I don't think you would think that. In fact the older and more "character" something has, the more its value, sentimental or other.

Churches are usually the structures that outlive and outlast most every other in any advanced society since the beginning of time. Hawaiian Heiau are still here today and many look pretty good. In Europe, South America, even Japan, the Churches, as places of worship, are protected first and foremost.

Hawaii's Japanese have turned their back on their own culture and this is just one symbol of that odd and sad cultural shift. It seems it became better to be a fake Hawaiian at some point following Statehood than it was to be a Japanese American.

A bulldozer might be the solution but that says a lot about Japanese immigrants who still choose to temporarily reside in Hawaii. They've lost their soul in an attempt to steal another's.
Killa Wiffa

AOL

#6 Dec 8, 2008
Termites like the sushi!!!!!!!!
Kikuko

Kaneohe, HI

#8 Dec 8, 2008
I doubt you are Japanese, San Leandro, and I am sure you're not Shinto. As long as sacred things are taken care of, the ancestors would be proud of us for burning what's dead and bringing up new life. Certainly not everyone observes rituals, but I think you can see the remnants of Sinto traditions in the cleanliness, humblness and courtesy of most Japanese people.

Too bad you're so hard hearted or I would invite you to some great Shinto ceremonies. Meantime, remember, be nice or bachi gonna get you! People who have no courtesy to the feelings of others give themselves bad luck.
Kikuko

Kaneohe, HI

#9 Dec 8, 2008
Omama wrote:
<quoted text>
Hawaii's Japanese have turned their back on their own culture and this is just one symbol of that odd and sad cultural shift. It seems it became better to be a fake Hawaiian at some point following Statehood than it was to be a Japanese American. A bulldozer might be the solution but that says a lot about Japanese immigrants who still choose to temporarily reside in Hawaii. They've lost their soul in an attempt to steal another's.
You know, San Leandro, I have yet to meet a Japanese person who was longing to be a Hawaiian person and to steal Hawaiian culture. I think you're way out in left field on that one.

People like you berate people they disdain no matter what. If Japanese people on Maui had clung to their traditions, especially ones that invested a lot of power and spiritual significance in the emperor, you'd shriek. If they don't, you shriek. You seem to be stuck in some sort of racist time warp that doesn't see 4th or 5th generation Japanese islanders as Americans at all. That's just weird. I bet you look down on Mexicans over there in California, and call them "those people."

What are Japanese people supposed to do to satisfy you? Wear kimonos and get their feet bound? We keep the traditions we like and let others go. We're part of a nation of immigrants, and can pound mochi or barbeque a steak, no big deal. What nationality are you, San Leandro, to be so insecure? Surely your ancestors didn't arrive in the USA straight from heaven, did they?
Omama

Livingston, CA

#10 Dec 8, 2008
Kikuko wrote:
Meantime, remember, be nice or bachi gonna get you! People who have no courtesy to the feelings of others give themselves bad luck.
Not worry. You might want to look in the mirror.

I'm not the guy who let 100s of Japanese schools that existed in Hawaii in the early 1900s go out of business. I'm not the guy who let the language of my ancestors die.

I'm not the guy who let the churches collapse and the bon dances fade away.

When is the last time you saw a Japanese girl in Hawaii wearing a kimono? Never? Most have tattoos and tongue rings.

I'm not the guy who voted to allow non-Japanese into the Cherry Blossom Pageant.

Well at least you guys still got that ancient Japanese game of baseball still restricted to Japanese in the AJA Baseball league. How funny or sad is that. The only thing that the Japanese are fighting to support is a league that plays American Baseball.

Talk about culturally confused.

I'm okay kikuko-san. It you who needs to look in the mirror and look around and wonder where your grandparents culture went.
Kikuko

Kaneohe, HI

#12 Dec 8, 2008
My grandparents and great grandparents are more than capable of balancing more than one culture at a time. They like Easter, 4th of July, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Santa Claus and all that. New Years might be something else again.

How many Americans speak the language of their ancestors? I have yet to meet an American born Irish who knows more than one or two words of Gaelic. Same for Italians, Poles, Russians, Jews, etc etc. Kids here can easily learn Japanese if they want to, no need a special school.

Bon dances? Eeeyah. I'm not that old. Kimono? The younger generations have their own spin on that in Tokyo. We pass our old kimono down, and seldom wear them, just like Obasan. Maybe setting lanterns out to sea, the kids like that.

I suppose if it were up to you, we would all be doing a polka, or a jig, and playing mumbly peg or rolling hoops instead of baseball.

Japanese people in Hawaii are more American than Americans sometimes; I think they do a better job than most in preserving traditions too.
loco moco

Richmond, VA

#13 Dec 8, 2008
I sure wouldn't single out da Japanese on this. Not that many people malama their stuff anymore. Of course if I had one house built in the last 20 years, no sense malama da bugga. Going fall down anyway.

Da ones I really miss are da big wooden buildings in cane towns all along da Hamakua coast. I think maybe in Honomu still get one.
Omama

Livingston, CA

#15 Dec 8, 2008
You are both right its not just Japanese and not just people in Hawaii.

The odd thing about Hawaii Japanese is how they went from one extreme to the other and how many have ended up pretending to be faux-Hawaiians.

Until recently, most Americans immigrated to America and kissed the ground and abandoned their cultural past by forbidding their children from speaking Irish, German or Russian. That's changed a little today with Hispanics and Asians it seems.

But at least the other Americans are pretending to be a Native American or other race as they abandon their actual ethnic heritage. That's what makes Hawaii's immigrants especially odd.

Its all related. Hawaii's Japanese culture, except for AJA Baseball(I'm laughing), is crumbling and dying. This church is just a symptom of the underlying disease.
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#16 Dec 8, 2008
Omama wrote:
<quoted text>
Not worry. You might want to look in the mirror.
I'm not the guy who let 100s of Japanese schools that existed in Hawaii in the early 1900s go out of business. I'm not the guy who let the language of my ancestors die.
I'm not the guy who let the churches collapse and the bon dances fade away.
When is the last time you saw a Japanese girl in Hawaii wearing a kimono? Never? Most have tattoos and tongue rings.
I'm not the guy who voted to allow non-Japanese into the Cherry Blossom Pageant.
Well at least you guys still got that ancient Japanese game of baseball still restricted to Japanese in the AJA Baseball league. How funny or sad is that. The only thing that the Japanese are fighting to support is a league that plays American Baseball.
Talk about culturally confused.
I'm okay kikuko-san. It you who needs to look in the mirror and look around and wonder where your grandparents culture went.
In that case, I don't see an issue with the "Hawaiian culture" either.
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#17 Dec 8, 2008
Omama wrote:
You are both right its not just Japanese and not just people in Hawaii.
The odd thing about Hawaii Japanese is how they went from one extreme to the other and how many have ended up pretending to be faux-Hawaiians.
Until recently, most Americans immigrated to America and kissed the ground and abandoned their cultural past by forbidding their children from speaking Irish, German or Russian. That's changed a little today with Hispanics and Asians it seems.
But at least the other Americans are pretending to be a Native American or other race as they abandon their actual ethnic heritage. That's what makes Hawaii's immigrants especially odd.
Its all related. Hawaii's Japanese culture, except for AJA Baseball(I'm laughing), is crumbling and dying. This church is just a symptom of the underlying disease.
Is that what you did when you immigrated to America?..."Kissed the ground and abandoned their cultural past by forbidding their children from speaking Irish, German or Russian..." Last I checked, you didn't even want to say you were American. Would you like to now for the record?
Saburo

Makawao, HI

#18 Dec 8, 2008
Crawl back in your hole troll, stop trying to pick on the old man. You just demonstrate your opinionated idiocies.

Does it inflate your overdeveloped ego to pick on people?

Don't worry Kikuko, that one hates everyone and everything including itself.
Omama

Livingston, CA

#19 Dec 8, 2008
Yeah wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that what you did when you immigrated to America?..."Kissed the ground and abandoned their cultural past by forbidding their children from speaking Irish, German or Russian..." Last I checked, you didn't even want to say you were American. Would you like to now for the record?
Man you are still just as clueless.

Hawaiians aren't Americans. There were Hawaiians thousands of years before Columbus hit the shores of North America.

I know this is all hard for you. You are just one of those confused Asians who think you are a Hawaiian. That makes it difficult for you to see the world with clarity.

While your temples crumble, don't forget to log onto www.luaucostumes.com to keep your wannabe charade going.
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#20 Dec 8, 2008
Omama wrote:
<quoted text>
Man you are still just as clueless.
Hawaiians aren't Americans. There were Hawaiians thousands of years before Columbus hit the shores of North America.
I know this is all hard for you. You are just one of those confused Asians who think you are a Hawaiian. That makes it difficult for you to see the world with clarity.
While your temples crumble, don't forget to log onto www.luaucostumes.com to keep your wannabe charade going.
So what are you doing in America? Enjoying the priviledges of being an American?

You don't see the irony in this, do you?
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#21 Dec 8, 2008
Omama wrote:
<quoted text>
Man you are still just as clueless.
Hawaiians aren't Americans. There were Hawaiians thousands of years before Columbus hit the shores of North America.
I know this is all hard for you. You are just one of those confused Asians who think you are a Hawaiian. That makes it difficult for you to see the world with clarity.
While your temples crumble, don't forget to log onto www.luaucostumes.com to keep your wannabe charade going.
Are we talking about you "spontaneously sprouting" on the islands again?
Omama

Livingston, CA

#22 Dec 8, 2008
Kikuko wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to be stuck in some sort of racist time warp that doesn't see 4th or 5th generation Japanese islanders as Americans at all.
Wrong. Japanese are absolutely American. But they aren't Hawaiian.

That simple two sentence statement sends many in Hawaii, like Mr. Yeah, into a head spin of confusion.

The wanting "be Hawaiian" isn't done in the blatant Haole style. It's being done in a sneaky, insidious way more common of cultures of other parts of the world.

It's called "localism" taken to absurd extremes.
Yeah

Mililani, HI

#23 Dec 8, 2008
Omama wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. Japanese are absolutely American. But they aren't Hawaiian.
That simple two sentence statement sends many in Hawaii, like Mr. Yeah, into a head spin of confusion.
The wanting "be Hawaiian" isn't done in the blatant Haole style. It's being done in a sneaky, insidious way more common of cultures of other parts of the world.
It's called "localism" taken to absurd extremes.
Actually, Im American.

What about you? Or do you just live cowering protected under the American flag and Constitution?

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