Unions Push Hostess Into Bankruptcy

Unions Push Hostess Into Bankruptcy

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Union Fail

United States

#1 Jan 11, 2012
Just like Boeing, union strikes, pensions and endless demands are now threatening to put Hostess out of business.

Google Hostess Bankruptcy Unions.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#2 Jan 11, 2012
How much did the CEO make?

How many trips to the Bahams did the company pay for for him?

If you can't prove, dollar for dollar, that the Union actively did it you're full of it.

Once we make the maximum wage for executives 99K a year including benefits you've got a case. Until then all you've got is a weak assertion.
Union Fail

United States

#3 Jan 11, 2012
950 million in pensions alone. That's for workers leaving after 20 years and at age 60. Divide that by their 45 locations that's a debt of 21.1 million per location befor a single loaf is baked. Thanks to the union demands and strikes for higher and earlier pensions. Look locally. Go to Dillons. Non union bread - 99 cents. Hostess Wonder Bread - 2.49. The CEO salary is a small part of the equation.
reading comprehension

Marion, KS

#4 Jan 11, 2012
I see a lot on different threads about people's lack of reading comprehension, here's a good example. "Union Fail" go back and read the story again - the pensions and union issues are clearly just one piece of the puzzle here. Problems cannot be solved with one-track thinking, in this case you want to take a multi-faceted problem and pick one little part of it to demonize.
Not much different than those who want to try and convince the world that Obama was the cause of our unemployment/recession issues of the past few years.

---sad, so sad to be so close minded and uniformed.
is this better

Marion, KS

#6 Jan 11, 2012
Union Fail wrote:
Just like Boeing, union strikes, pensions and endless demands are now threatening to put Hostess out of business.
Google Hostess Bankruptcy Unions.
Maybe this would be more to your liking http://news.yahoo.com/did-300-workers-xbox-36...
Reliable Sources

Junction City, KS

#7 Jan 11, 2012
is this better wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe this would be more to your liking http://news.yahoo.com/did-300-workers-xbox-36...
"Mashable" isnt really a reliable source, but I'll read your story.

First line: "Three hundred Chinese factory workers who manufacture Microsoft Xbox 360s threatened mass suicide last week, ACCORDING TO UNCONFIRMED REPORTS."

Third paragraph: "Microsoft could not confirm whether the mass suicide incident took place at Foxconn Technology Park in Wuhan, China."

Or even if there was an incident.

"A spokesperson declined to confirm whether the factory is even a manufacturer of Xbox 360s, saying that the company does not disclose which specific products are manufactured by which suppliers."

More non confirmation....FAIL!
Wall Street Journal

Junction City, KS

#8 Jan 11, 2012
reading comprehension wrote:
I see a lot on different threads about people's lack of reading comprehension, here's a good example. "Union Fail" go back and read the story again - the pensions and union issues are clearly just one piece of the puzzle here. Problems cannot be solved with one-track thinking, in this case you want to take a multi-faceted problem and pick one little part of it to demonize.
Not much different than those who want to try and convince the world that Obama was the cause of our unemployment/recession issues of the past few years.
---sad, so sad to be so close minded and uniformed.
Wall Street Journal

"In a court document explaining how the company got into this mess, Hostess largely pins the blame on its labor costs, as well as increased competition, poor financial performance and excessive levels of debt. Hostess also says the company didn’t do enough to fix itself during a lengthy prior stint in bankruptcy protection less than a decade ago."

”The company obtained only modest concessions relating to health and welfare, as well as inflexible requirements under their collective bargaining agreements relating to work rules,” Hostess says in its court filing, which says the company and its employees have 372 separate labor agreements."

"Hostess said it posted a net loss of $341 million in the fiscal year ended May 28, 2011, and a loss of $138 million the prior year."

"The company indicated it will seek to modify or throw out its labor contracts, and its pension plans for workers. Hostess said its annual cash contribution to employee pension plans is about $103 million."

http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2012/01/11/its-off...

It's simple. You can't continually, in this case 372 times, bargain your way up to more money, more benefits, more vacation, more coverage and still allow a company to make money to keep you employed. There is a limit.
Sure

Junction City, KS

#9 Jan 11, 2012
Union Fail wrote:
Just like Boeing, union strikes, pensions and endless demands are now threatening to put Hostess out of business.
Google Hostess Bankruptcy Unions.
The rants of a man raised in a household where the breadwinner was a union member who was able to make a better life for his family because of that membership.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#10 Jan 11, 2012
Every time they fight an organizing drive it's class war. They just call it class war when we fight back.
Unions Demands

Junction City, KS

#11 Jan 12, 2012
The Kangaroo wrote:
Every time they fight an organizing drive it's class war. They just call it class war when we fight back.
Hostess began in 1930 as Interstate Baking Company in Kansas City, Missouri. Over the years, it acquired 44 other baking companies, and in doing so, finds itself today with 372 different union contracts.

The Unions demand a host of complex labor rules that the company deems inefficient.

Example:

Union work rules mandate that separate trucks must deliver bread and cake productsd.

Because of this union rule trucks only partially loaded make the same stops on the same day to the same retailers. This doubles the vehicle and fuel costs for nearly 42% of all deliveries.

Example:

Union mandates that separate workers must load the trucks and additional workers must make final deliveries once a truck arrives at a supermarket.

One half load of Wonder Bread requires a driver who must only drive, and an unloader who must ride with the driver and only unload. Manpower downtime (people sitting doing nothing but collecting pay) accounts for over 36% of all union payroll.

Example:

Unions demand that Hostess pay just over $100 million annually to some 40 multiemployer pension plans that cover workers at a wide array of companies other than its own.

Hostess wants to switch to a so-called single employer plan that covers only its own workers. The Unions refuse.

Union Statement:

“While no agreement has been reached to date, the Teamsters Union remains committed to working with all stakeholders during the bankruptcy to find a mutually agreeable solution, if possible,” said Dennis Raymond, Director of the Teamsters Bakery and Laundry Conference.

“We were hoping that could have been done prior to a bankruptcy filing, but unfortunately that did not occur. We remain committed to finding a solution, if possible, over the next few months during the bankruptcy process.”

Unions have outlived their worth.
Agree

Junction City, KS

#12 Jan 12, 2012
Back in the beginning unios were good things. The old guard fought hard to get decent living wages and reasonable time off. Now the unions use their power to abuse companies and then wonder why the companies go under. When these companies go under the unions claim no fault. What a load.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#13 Jan 12, 2012
Unions Demands wrote:
<quoted text>
Hostess began in 1930 as Interstate Baking Company in Kansas City, Missouri. Over the years, it acquired 44 other baking companies, and in doing so, finds itself today with 372 different union contracts.
The Unions demand a host of complex labor rules that the company deems inefficient.
Example:
Union work rules mandate that separate trucks must deliver bread and cake productsd.
Because of this union rule trucks only partially loaded make the same stops on the same day to the same retailers. This doubles the vehicle and fuel costs for nearly 42% of all deliveries.
Example:
Union mandates that separate workers must load the trucks and additional workers must make final deliveries once a truck arrives at a supermarket.
One half load of Wonder Bread requires a driver who must only drive, and an unloader who must ride with the driver and only unload. Manpower downtime (people sitting doing nothing but collecting pay) accounts for over 36% of all union payroll.
Example:
Unions demand that Hostess pay just over $100 million annually to some 40 multiemployer pension plans that cover workers at a wide array of companies other than its own.
Hostess wants to switch to a so-called single employer plan that covers only its own workers. The Unions refuse.
Union Statement:
“While no agreement has been reached to date, the Teamsters Union remains committed to working with all stakeholders during the bankruptcy to find a mutually agreeable solution, if possible,” said Dennis Raymond, Director of the Teamsters Bakery and Laundry Conference.
“We were hoping that could have been done prior to a bankruptcy filing, but unfortunately that did not occur. We remain committed to finding a solution, if possible, over the next few months during the bankruptcy process.”
Unions have outlived their worth.
Snippets taken out of context to blame the workers. Not valid.

***

When the union's inspiration through the workers' blood shall run,
There can be no power greater anywhere beneath the sun;
Yet what force on earth is weaker than the feeble strength of one,
But the union makes us strong.

CHORUS:
Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
Solidarity forever,
For the union makes us strong.

Is there aught we hold in common with the greedy parasite,
Who would lash us into serfdom and would crush us with his might?
Is there anything left to us but to organize and fight?
For the union makes us strong.

Chorus

It is we who plowed the prairies; built the cities where they trade;
Dug the mines and built the workshops, endless miles of railroad laid;
Now we stand outcast and starving midst the wonders we have made;
But the union makes us strong.

Chorus

All the world that's owned by idle drones is ours and ours alone.
We have laid the wide foundations; built it skyward stone by stone.
It is ours, not to slave in, but to master and to own.
While the union makes us strong.

Chorus

They have taken untold millions that they never toiled to earn,
But without our brain and muscle not a single wheel can turn.
We can break their haughty power, gain our freedom when we learn
That the union makes us strong.

Chorus

In our hands is placed a power greater than their hoarded gold,
Greater than the might of armies, magnified a thousand-fold.
We can bring to birth a new world from the ashes of the old
For the union makes us strong.

***

Union-busting is just plutocracy by another name. Yes, unions have "outlived their usefulness" - never had it - to the forces of exploitation and greed. Without Unions we're all just serfs.
How So

Junction City, KS

#14 Jan 12, 2012
How are the facts of the Hostess bankruptcy / Union rules taken "out of context"? AGAIN you make a declaration without explanation.

Two men to do the simple job of one man?

Two trucks to do the job of one?

Companies forced to pay pensions for people that have never worked for them?

372 different union contracts for 45 locations?

Seems to me that Union workers setting on their butts doing nothing for a large portion of the day, collecting salary is pretty important.

When union demands exceed company income the result is lots of people without jobs.

Think not? Ask the union employees of Boeing in Wichita who are preparing to lose their jobs.
Bill Balsamico

Junction City, KS

#15 Jan 12, 2012
Before I start, understand I was a union member for a little over the first 10 years of my working life. I firmly believe that unions are only as good as the INTEGRITY of the members and their leadership. They have to know their limits, this allows co-existence.

One of my first jobs after high school (1963) was with the Kroger Co. as a cashier/stock boy. I belonged to the retail clerks union Local 590 (for about 3 years) and at that time the retail grocery business was one of the better paying jobs (well over minimum wage–3.20/hr, while minimum wage was 1.00/hr). With that our truck drivers belonged to Teamsters Local 249 (Allegheny county in Pittsburgh) and their demands got so outrageous that the company moved its warehouse from Pittsburgh to Ohio in the late 1960&#8242;s.

With this move they also closed about 30% of their stores in the Pittsburgh market and I got laid off.

Soon to follow Krogers would be many other MAJOR EMPLOYERS. To name a few—- Thorofare, A&P, Armour Meats along with all meat packing plants in Pittsburgh, also fleeing Pittsburgh were all the main Freight companies (nearly every major trucking company under the jurisdiction of Local 249 fled to another county or another state).

Another industry dismantled by the union was the dairy industry in Pittsburgh Local 205 (that was the second union I belonged to–7 1/2 years). All the milk companies and all the baking companies, Tip Top, Ward, Schwebels, Nickels, Wonder, Braun, Liberty (I can’t remember the rest). This total dismantling of Pittsburgh’s trucking force took 7–10 years and the cost of 1000&#8242;s and 1000&#8242;s of good paying jobs as well as all the related jobs that fell due to the moves and closures.

At the same time this was unfolding the steel industry unions were also getting GREEDY and the BREAKING POINT would be a 13 week paid vacation every 5 years. Knowing that this benefit was going to be part of the contract steel companies stalled negotiations while setting up steel plants overseas and signed the new contract. Shortly thereafter USS announced it would be closing down about 80-90% of its operations across America and moving overseas (Pittsburgh taking a another MAJOR hit)…another case of 100&#8242;s and 100&#8242;s of thousands of jobs and the destruction of economies in cities all over America.

While the legacy costs of UAW contracts cause the price of UAW produced autos to be more than their foreign competitors America is now under siege with the LEGACY COSTS for government employees as well as teachers.

Remember now—–back in the 60&#8242;s union membership was 20%+ and now it is between 10-12%, and thru the last 50 year cycle the POWER and DEMANDS of unions first caused companies to relocate by county or state (where the unions were more friendly–not as demanding). Later they caused companies to relocate overseas (where there are NO unions). And now the union legacy costs tied with government employees and teachers without a doubt WILL BANKRUPT AMERICA !!!

This is REALITY. As I did, take a few moments and think back to any and all BIG BUSINESSES that you grew up with, if they are gone (in most cases they are) ask yourself why and draw your own conclusions.

While unions are good for workers, they MUST realize where they ultimately will hurt those they represent and act accordingly (this is for the benefit of all). JUST THINK ABOUT IT.
the rest of the story

Marion, KS

#16 Jan 12, 2012
Reliable Sources wrote:
<quoted text>
"Mashable" isnt really a reliable source, but I'll read your story.
First line: "Three hundred Chinese factory workers who manufacture Microsoft Xbox 360s threatened mass suicide last week, ACCORDING TO UNCONFIRMED REPORTS."
Third paragraph: "Microsoft could not confirm whether the mass suicide incident took place at Foxconn Technology Park in Wuhan, China."
Or even if there was an incident.
"A spokesperson declined to confirm whether the factory is even a manufacturer of Xbox 360s, saying that the company does not disclose which specific products are manufactured by which suppliers."
More non confirmation....FAIL!
Actually, Mashable is as reliable a source as your WSJ story. What you have to remember is that we are in the year 2012. Life no longer revovles around print media. Which, BTW also frequently makes use of "UNconfirmed reports"
Look at the whole story - don't just pull out little bits and pieces that back your fantasy - how about this paragraph
"Some of Foxconn's factories are surrounded by anti-suicide nets, and employees have reportedly been asked to sign a "no suicide" pact. After interviewing 120 Foxconn workers, authors of a May 2011 report [PDF] by Students & Scholars Against Corporate Misbehaviour found significant instances of labor abuse at the factories."
Sounds like a great place to work.
As for "Fail" yup - you sure do!
Please Help

United States

#17 Jan 12, 2012
I have Googled images for a picture of Foxconn Suicide Safety Net, Suicide Safety Net, Suicide Net - Nothing.

I have googled Foxconn Suicide Threat, Foxconn Suicide, China Foxconn Suicide Threat (goes only to Mashable).

I have Googled Xbox China Factory Suicide and all variables and still only get the single story from Mashable.

Do you have photos of the suicide nets or any confirming reports of this story? Can you post a link to the PDF? Thanks.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#18 Jan 12, 2012
How So wrote:
How are the facts of the Hostess bankruptcy / Union rules taken "out of context"? AGAIN you make a declaration without explanation.
Two men to do the simple job of one man?
Two trucks to do the job of one?
Companies forced to pay pensions for people that have never worked for them?
372 different union contracts for 45 locations?
Seems to me that Union workers setting on their butts doing nothing for a large portion of the day, collecting salary is pretty important.
When union demands exceed company income the result is lots of people without jobs.
Think not? Ask the union employees of Boeing in Wichita who are preparing to lose their jobs.
The story does not contain facts, just opinions. It's from the Wall Street Journal? No surprise there. WSJ lies constantly to tow the management line. they lied about nestle dumping substandard baby formula on poor Africans.

As for Boeing, they're relocating to Seattle, and who can blame them? Wichita - like much of the Heartland - is not economically viable because nobody wants to live there. A place that elected a fiend like Todd Tihart is lucky for the little economic activity it has.
Well There You Go Again

Junction City, KS

#20 Jan 12, 2012
The "opinions" are quotes from the legal brief submitted to both the courts and to the union representative.

So instead of demonstrating how the quotes were, in YOUR words, "snippets taken out of context", you move on to attack the single most widely read, non-partisan reporting news agency in the US...and then on to attack Wichita and Kansas.

Typicall Roo. Deflect and insult.
the rest of the story

Marion, KS

#22 Jan 12, 2012
Please Help wrote:
I have Googled images for a picture of Foxconn Suicide Safety Net, Suicide Safety Net, Suicide Net - Nothing.
I have googled Foxconn Suicide Threat, Foxconn Suicide, China Foxconn Suicide Threat (goes only to Mashable).
I have Googled Xbox China Factory Suicide and all variables and still only get the single story from Mashable.
Do you have photos of the suicide nets or any confirming reports of this story? Can you post a link to the PDF? Thanks.
Interestingly my response has been removed - you'll notice that post #19 is gone. Basically what I posted was that you either flat out lied about your supposed google search or you have not idea how to do an internet search because there is a lot of information about this case and many photographs that show suicide netting. Just a few of the other websites that do not reference Mashable are:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/28/f...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13578...

http://www.hrcapitalist.com/2010/09/picture-o... (this one from over a year ago has great pictures that show what suicide nets are)

http://www.dailytech.com/Foxconn+Installs+Ant...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/27/chin...

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#23 Jan 12, 2012
Well There You Go Again wrote:
The "opinions" are quotes from the legal brief submitted to both the courts and to the union representative.
So instead of demonstrating how the quotes were, in YOUR words, "snippets taken out of context", you move on to attack the single most widely read, non-partisan reporting news agency in the US...and then on to attack Wichita and Kansas.
Typicall Roo. Deflect and insult.
Sweetheart people lie in legal briefs all the time and the corporate suits are the best liars in the world.

The WSJ is "nonpartisan"? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!! It's an apologetics sheet for the 1% with no credibility whatsoever in journalism. The rest of it is your usual whines, Jerry, showing again you've been outed as the liar and crybaby that you are.

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