Letters: Greed plagues health system

Letters: Greed plagues health system

There are 1584 comments on the El Paso Times story from Nov 20, 2009, titled Letters: Greed plagues health system. In it, El Paso Times reports that:

Besides the main reason of wanting Obama and America to fail so as to help them get back into office, Republicans are quite happy with 50 million uninsured and the current status quo with our health system in crisis.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at El Paso Times.

Rey

AOL

#23 Nov 20, 2009
BB, thats because they are fruit, no sleight of hand on my part. I see a need for a change, but the current plan doesnt solve anything.

The facts are that there are major problems with the current government programs and the proposed plan only makes it worse.

It has become an idealogical farce instead of keeping it as ahealthcare issue.
Rita Ballou

El Paso, TX

#24 Nov 20, 2009
I would be most interested in what kind of health insurance most of you who are so opposed to reform have. I would especially like to know if any of you pay for your health insurance entirely out of your own pocket - not the part you pay for employer-provided insurance, but the entire cost of your insurance. Can't believe that anyone paying their way as some of us do would be opposed to reform. Mr. Boyd I applaud you.
BloggingBoyd

El Paso, TX

#25 Nov 20, 2009
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
BB it is nice to see you keep writing BS and lies. BB did you not noted the name at the bottom of the graph you provided? Knowing probably not, but the graph was put together by the Department of Health and Human Services. Doesn’t the HHS run Medicare and Medicaid? Don’t you think there might be a little bit of conflict of interest in the HHS reporting?
Who are you to question the survey analsys of the Federal Government? Are you calling the people at HHS liars? Yeah right and the next thing you will do you will question the data from the DOL and BLS as well? You think you are a big enough of an expert to question any government data? Now all of the sudden you fancy yourself a statistician? Give me a break! Have you poured through the raw data and have you done the actual survey work yourself? Since when did you gain the bonafides to question any data findings from the government? Sounds very arrogant if you ask me. But very typical of people of your ilk. Don't like the benchmark standards set by the experts in the field and you dismiss them out of hand as being biased or as socialist/marxist based information? Since when did you become such an expert on things like that?
You can have your suspicions all you like, but that is all they are and nothing more. And as the son of a lawyer and a Federal Judge I can tell you right now, that having suspicions and proving your case even to the level of the evidence of the preponderence of the evidence are completely two different things.
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
Maybe Americans are trying to send the President and Congress a message; KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OUR INSURANCE!http://www.gallup.co m/poll/124415/Greater-Optimism -U.S.-Health-System-Coverage-C osts.aspx
No, actually, I think the American people are sick and tired of having their healthcare rationed to them by bean counters at Private Health insurance companies that routinely deny people coverage due to "Pre-existing conditions" or getting dropped by the private health insurance carriers the moment they get seriously sick or injured. That is why about 61% of the American people polled favor a public option.
But I guess you and your fellow wingnuts idea of health insurance in this country is don't get seriously sick and don't get seriously injured and if you die and die quickly so as not to be too much of a burden on wealthy healthcare CEOs who are making huge million dollar salaries and bonuses!
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
BB, I see your favorite president, BHO, is doing really well in the polls. I guess the shine in really wearing off.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/122627/Obama-Job-A...
Yeah lets look at BO in the polls why don't we:
http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_job.htm
http://www.pollingreport.com/obama_fav.htm
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/122627/Obama-Job-A...
Oh one last old BB, if GWB doubled our deficit is it safe to say that BHO has now increased the deficit by four?? Just thought I’d ask.
Moderate Democrats understand that the government MUST spend money during a recession. EVERY major country in the world has a stimulus program and they're all working. Now is NOT the time to worry about deficits -- you should have been worrying about that during the Bush years when they were totally unwise and unnecessary. Now they are imperative.
Of course your people(ie Chenney and Bush) were saying about 4 or 5 years ago that deficits didn't matter, and that deficits were a sign of a healthy economy. Now you want to complain about deficits? Give me a break! How two-faced hypocritcal can you get!
Obama has NEVER said that deficits didn't matter, and that deficits were the sign of a healthy economy" -- quite the contrary. That's the LAST thing he would ever say.
You're the lying hypocrite Gunney, not Obama.
StinkPile

El Paso, TX

#26 Nov 20, 2009
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
BB it is nice to see you keep writing BS and lies. BB did you not noted the name at the bottom of the graph you provided? Knowing probably not, but the graph was put together by the Department of Health and Human Services. Doesn’t the HHS run Medicare and Medicaid? Don’t you think there might be a little bit of conflict of interest in the HHS reporting? Oh wait I keep forgetting just how much you hate information from biased sources, correct BB. Is Gallup Poll OK for you? This is what Gallup had to say about health insurance:“As Congress debates a possible major expansion of health insurance in the United States, Gallup finds 38% of Americans rating healthcare coverage in this country as excellent or good, the highest (by eight percentage points) in the nine-year history of this question, and 12 points above last year's level.” Maybe Americans are trying to send the President and Congress a message; KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OUR INSURANCE!
http://www.gallup.com/poll/124415/Greater-Opt...
BB, I see your favorite president, BHO, is doing really well in the polls. I guess the shine in really wearing off.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/122627/Obama-Job-A...
Oh one last old BB, if GWB doubled our deficit is it safe to say that BHO has now increased the deficit by four?? Just thought I’d ask.
AHA!!! I KNEW IT! MANNY IS A TEABAGGER!
FROM THIS DAY FORWARD, HE SHALL BE JUDGED IN THAT CONTEXT!

Just out of curiosity, Manny, how much did the Health Insurance companies pay you guys to go to town hall meetings and carrying loaded guns and to scream obscenities at elected Congressional representatives?

Tell the truth Manny, after you guys get your pay for "demonstrating" by Health Ins Cos, do you all go back to headquarters, get drunk and "teabag" each other whilst prancing on table tops?
Hey, I have a great idea! Perhaps you can make a film along with the Prejean porno pics, accompanied by Larry Craig's sounds of tapping toes. Sarah Palin could read a sonnet of lies at the beginning.

Think about it Manny, could be a moneymaker.
BloggingBoyd

El Paso, TX

#27 Nov 20, 2009
StinkPile wrote:
AHA!!! I KNEW IT! MANNY IS A TEABAGGER!
FROM THIS DAY FORWARD, HE SHALL BE JUDGED IN THAT CONTEXT!

Just out of curiosity, Manny, how much did the Health Insurance companies pay you guys to go to town hall meetings and carrying loaded guns and to scream obscenities at elected Congressional representatives?

Tell the truth Manny, after you guys get your pay for "demonstrating" by Health Ins Cos, do you all go back to headquarters, get drunk and "teabag" each other whilst prancing on table tops?
Hey, I have a great idea! Perhaps you can make a film along with the Prejean porno pics, accompanied by Larry Craig's sounds of tapping toes. Sarah Palin could read a sonnet of lies at the beginning.

Think about it Manny, could be a moneymaker.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!
StinkPile

El Paso, TX

#28 Nov 20, 2009
BloggingBoyd wrote:
ROTFLMAO!!!!
RIGHT-WING TEABAGGERS PROUDLY CALLED THEMSELVES BY THAT NAME.

WHEN THEY FOUND OUT IT'S HOMOSEXUAL MEANING, SOME REJECTED IT, BUT MANY IN THE CLOSET SECRETLY EMBRACED IT.
HEY MANNY:
LIVE WITH IT, TEABAGGER!

BTW:
The mindless Dittosheep/teabaggers were ordered to go to townhall meetings and to carry on like cads and duffuses by their masters at the Health insurance cos.

Mark my words: Sarah "I Quit" Palin will be destroyed by the Republican Power Brockers.
They need the Wing-nuts like Mannuel as foot soldiers and usefull idiots but will never give them power.

The Teabaggers like Manny were bused in from out of town paid for by Big Oil and Big Health Insurance, the Conservative Sheep wore buttons and carried posters proclaiming themselves, TEABAGGERS!!

One thing you have to admit about wingnuts, they are obedient, like nice little puppies.
Sergeant Shipley

El Paso, TX

#29 Nov 20, 2009
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
BB it is nice to see you keep writing BS and lies. BB did you not noted the name at the bottom of the graph you provided? Knowing probably not, but the graph was put together by the Department of Health and Human Services. Doesn’t the HHS run Medicare and Medicaid? Don’t you think there might be a little bit of conflict of interest in the HHS reporting? Oh wait I keep forgetting just how much you hate information from biased sources, correct BB. Is Gallup Poll OK for you? This is what Gallup had to say about health insurance:“As Congress debates a possible major expansion of health insurance in the United States, Gallup finds 38% of Americans rating healthcare coverage in this country as excellent or good, the highest (by eight percentage points) in the nine-year history of this question, and 12 points above last year's level.” Maybe Americans are trying to send the President and Congress a message; KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF OUR INSURANCE!
Every report and study done shows that since 2000, private health insurance has gone up nearly 500%. Do you call that WAY up? Policies that used to cost 2200 a year now are at the 10grand rate and rising fast...
... and Righties are fearful of what MIGHT happen?
It went up 500% under the GOP way of dealing with it, adding 15-Million to the uninsured and massive numbers of DEAD people. The GOP plan - Well, they ran congress for 12-years and total power nearly Bush's entire Presidency, so you know their plan: Do nothing and let the Market take what you will bear. If it goes up 100% over the next 10 years, to $20,000.00 a year, that would actually be a massive improvement over the GOP's record. Righties prefer to put their hands in their pockets to protect profits while people die.
Righties are always fearful of what MIGHT happen, never noticing what IS happening.
Listen to these Righty Nutjobs. All they want to do is increase profits for Insurance Corporations.
Why is America demanding Health Reform? Because we are all being raped by the Insurance Corporations. Some of there execs get 10,000 25,000 or in excess of 50,000 dollars... an HOUR to find new ways to squeeze profits out of subscriber premiums.
Now all they want to talk about is TORT REFORM.
WTF? It goes right over the GOP tiny head that Doctors too are ... PAYING TOO MUCH IN INSURANCE PREMIUMS!!!
How do Republicans plan to deal with INSURANCE being too much for doctors? By cutting the amount that the Insurance Company pays out in checks to people wronged by doctors... to SAVE INSURANCE CORPORATIONS MONEY!
Not a peep or word about why so many doctors screw up so many patients. Not a word about the Hundreds of Thousands of Americans that are KILLED by Medical Mistakes in America every year.
Nope... they don't want to fix that. They want to STOP the wronged from collecting TOO MUCH from the INSURANCE CORPORATION!!! Republicans want to leave the f~cked up medical system in America alone that creates all these mistakes and dead people in its wake... and deal with what costs Insurance Corporations money instead.
Always about the Insurance Companies with Republicans.
The GOP are Corporate Whores.
***** Be advised. You have a Constitutional RIGHT to petition the government to seek redress of grievances. Meaning, you can have the GOVERNMENT (Judicial Branch - Courts) hear your grievances and decide redress to make you whole again. In fact, it is your VERY FIRST CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT in the Bill of Rights. Go read folks. It's in amendment number 1.
Tort Reform is a direct attack on your right to collect redress for your grievances... to improve PROFIT MARGINS for Insurance Corporations. Let's see a Republican Right Winger pick up his AR-15 to go defend that Constitutional Right.(it won't happen)
Sarge
Sergeant Shipley

El Paso, TX

#30 Nov 20, 2009
Listen to these Righty Nutjobs. All they want to do is increase profits for Insurance Corporations.

Why is America demanding Health Reform? Because we are all being raped by the Insurance Corporations. Some of there execs get 10,000 25,000 or in excess of 50,000 dollars... an HOUR to find new ways to squeeze profits out of subscriber premiums.

Now all they want to talk about is TORT REFORM.

WTF? It goes right over the GOP tiny head that Doctors too are ... PAYING TOO MUCH IN INSURANCE PREMIUMS!!!

How do Republicans plan to deal with INSURANCE being too much for doctors? By cutting the amount that the Insurance Company pays out in checks to people wronged by doctors... to SAVE INSURANCE CORPORATIONS MONEY!

Not a peep or word about why so many doctors screw up so many patients. Not a word about the Hundreds of Thousands of Americans that are KILLED by Medical Mistakes in America every year.

Nope... they don't want to fix that. They want to STOP the wronged from collecting TOO MUCH from the INSURANCE CORPORATION!!! Republicans want to leave the f~cked up medical system in America alone that creates all these mistakes and dead people in its wake... and deal with what costs Insurance Corporations money instead.

Always about the Insurance Companies with Republicans.

The GOP are Corporate Whores.

***** Be advised. You have a Constitutional RIGHT to petition the government to seek redress of grievances. Meaning, you can have the GOVERNMENT (Judicial Branch - Courts) hear your grievances and decide redress to make you whole again. In fact, it is your VERY FIRST CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT in the Bill of Rights. Go read folks. It's in amendment number 1.

Tort Reform is a direct attack on your right to collect redress for your grievances... to improve PROFIT MARGINS for Insurance Corporations. Let's see a Republican Right Winger pick up his AR-15 to go defend that Constitutional Right.(it won't happen)

Sarge

Sergeant Shipley

El Paso, TX

#31 Nov 20, 2009
StinkPile wrote:
<quoted text>
AHA!!! I KNEW IT! MANNY IS A TEABAGGER!
FROM THIS DAY FORWARD, HE SHALL BE JUDGED IN THAT CONTEXT!
Just out of curiosity, Manny, how much did the Health Insurance companies pay you guys to go to town hall meetings and carrying loaded guns and to scream obscenities at elected Congressional representatives?
Tell the truth Manny, after you guys get your pay for "demonstrating" by Health Ins Cos, do you all go back to headquarters, get drunk and "teabag" each other whilst prancing on table tops?
Hey, I have a great idea! Perhaps you can make a film along with the Prejean porno pics, accompanied by Larry Craig's sounds of tapping toes. Sarah Palin could read a sonnet of lies at the beginning.
Think about it Manny, could be a moneymaker.
StinkPile,

Your description of Manuel Alvarez applies to the vast majority of Republicans. There are few reasonable ones left. The GOP has become a repository of America's narrow-minded, arrogant, bigot azzholes... and they seem to wear that description on their sleeves as if they were badges of honor will proudly shout out their ignorance from the highest mountain.

Little surprises me about them anymore. I still however can't get over how many Republicans that actually used to know how to pronounce the English word "Nuclear" began to pronounce the word "New-Kue-Lar" as a show of support for their moron king.

I've never seen anything like it. A kind of mass hysteria.

Republicans live to cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes... on the Rich and Corporations and they redistribute all the wealth to the top via borrowing it all on the backs of the middle class.

Republicans borrow to fund yachts for the rich, then LIE and call themselves "fiscal Conservatives."

It's no different than the holier than though scumbags attacking gays as evil... then you turn around and find them raping young children. Republicans say things... to get the stupid to vote for them. They need the votes of the stupid so they can get the power to lower taxes, destroy unions, and make the rich richer.

It's what they are all about.

Sarge
Manuel Alvarez

El Paso, TX

#32 Nov 20, 2009
I am sorry BB, but I am NOT supposed to question my government EVER?! Oh, ok comrade your statement reeks of communism BS. So I guess when our nation’s Founding Father’s questioned the King of England they were in the wrong?! I guess when Thomas Jefferson said “QUESTION WITH BOLDNESS” he was wrong?! Maybe you, comrade BB, should have been around to tell Jefferson he needed to shut up. But I digress, your right BB I have not gone through the “raw data”, but have YOU!? I seriously doubt it. Oh wait a minute wasn’t there something about the Recovery.gov website giving inaccurate information on saved jobs?? But I guess no one should question the government, right?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1258674867305...

BB, you seriously think that the government will not ration health care like what is CURRENTLY done in other countries like Canada, England, France, and other European nations? Tell me what is the difference between a health insurance company rationing care and the government?? America’s current health care system is not perfect by any means. But the current proposed reforms would make our health care WORSE. Not opinion but fact. The Medicare and Medicaid that you hold so high is going bankrupt according to the CBO.

Sorry but this Manuel is NOT that Manny. BB you should remember me. You kept getting my rank incorrect. So how is my “pseudo-Ranger who knows Marines because he drank with a couple” doing? Remember know?

Sgt Manuel Alvarez USMC
29 Palms, CA
Manuel Alvarez

El Paso, TX

#33 Nov 20, 2009
Sergeant Shipley do you have any original thought?“GOP are Corporate Whores or the GOP wants massive numbers of DEAD people”, wow you sound like a Rep. Alan Grayson talking points memo.

Sgt Shipley sorry to burst your bubble but tort reform would reduce insurance premiums. But since the Democrats have the LAWYERS in their hip pocket you will never hear about tort reform from a Democrat. While it is true we need to protect the patients from medical malpractice, what about protecting the doctors from lawsuits without merit? That is why doctors complain about not being able to practice medicine in peace. That is why doctor order test after tests to protect themselves from lawsuits. Get your information correct, because right now you sound like a MSNBC talking points memo.

Sgt Manuel Alvarez
29 Palms, CA
Blogging Boyd

El Paso, TX

#34 Nov 21, 2009
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
I am sorry BB, but I am NOT supposed to question my government EVER?! Oh, ok comrade your statement reeks of communism BS. So I guess when our nation’s Founding Father’s questioned the King of England they were in the wrong?! I guess when Thomas Jefferson said “QUESTION WITH BOLDNESS” he was wrong?! Maybe you, comrade BB, should have been around to tell Jefferson he needed to shut up. But I digress, your right BB I have not gone through the “raw data”, but have YOU!? I seriously doubt it. Oh wait a minute wasn’t there something about the Recovery.gov website giving inaccurate information on saved jobs?? But I guess no one should question the government, right?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1258674867305...
BB, you seriously think that the government will not ration health care like what is CURRENTLY done in other countries like Canada, England, France, and other European nations? Tell me what is the difference between a health insurance company rationing care and the government?? America’s current health care system is not perfect by any means. But the current proposed reforms would make our health care WORSE. Not opinion but fact. The Medicare and Medicaid that you hold so high is going bankrupt according to the CBO.
Sorry but this Manuel is NOT that Manny. BB you should remember me. You kept getting my rank incorrect. So how is my “pseudo-Ranger who knows Marines because he drank with a couple” doing? Remember know?
Sgt Manuel Alvarez USMC
29 Palms, CA
You question your government when you have the proof and the hard core evidence to dispute their findings. Then you have a right to send a letter to Congressman or testify in front of Congress as an expert witness and to present your case as to why you are right and they are wrong. That is if you have the professional credentials or bonafides to do so. Like I said before when did you become a professional statistician? When did you ever take the time out to pour over the raw data from HHS to be in a position to question the finding from the report? Also need I remind you that report was done in 2007 when the George W. Bush administration was in power and the HHS secretary was a Republican/Bush appointee.
Like I said before you can have your suspicions but having them and proving them are two different things. Try to follow the argument: You have no proof, you have no expertise, ergo you have no standing which means you are in no position to question the offical findings from HHS. When you have the expertise and have done the rather extensive legwork and research into their data findings then you can challenge it, until then you are just shooting off your big mouth about something you know nothing about. Can you follow that logic or is that too complicated for you to figure out?
As far as healthcare delivery in other countries is concerned maybe you should watch the CBS morning news report about what a terrific system the French have and we don't have. The Frenchies can give fantastic coverage to every French citizen for about half the per-capita cost that it cost the United States and we have nearly 50 million uninsured in this country.They have none.


How many people went bankrupt in France last year because of health care bills? Answer Zero! Maybe you might want to read how many Americans are going bankrupt because of medical bills:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankrupt...

As far as medicare/medicaid going out of business you might want to read what FactCheck.org has to say about it all.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/10/going-out-of...
Oh but I digress, FactCheck.org and its expert writers don't know what they are talking about because you are a bigger expert in this field than they are is that it?
PS
When did I ever call you Manny? I have always referred to you as Gunney.
AUCONTRAIRE

El Paso, TX

#35 Nov 21, 2009
EPcynic wrote:
Brendan you loser, the answer is simple. You go out and build an insurance company and then you can charge whatever you like. Or go to medical school and become a doctor and charge what you please for you services. Whiners like you act like people exist to serve you. You are nothing but a thief who would screw the hard working people who pay for good health care just so you can get it for "free."
You're full of bologna. Boyd speaks the truth, and, boy, does the truth hurt.
StinkPile

El Paso, TX

#36 Nov 21, 2009
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
Sergeant Shipley do you have any original thought?“GOP are Corporate Whores or the GOP wants massive numbers of DEAD people”, wow you sound like a Rep. Alan Grayson talking points memo.
Sgt Shipley sorry to burst your bubble but tort reform would reduce insurance premiums. But since the Democrats have the LAWYERS in their hip pocket you will never hear about tort reform from a Democrat. While it is true we need to protect the patients from medical malpractice, what about protecting the doctors from lawsuits without merit? That is why doctors complain about not being able to practice medicine in peace. That is why doctor order test after tests to protect themselves from lawsuits. Get your information correct, because right now you sound like a MSNBC talking points memo.
Sgt Manuel Alvarez
29 Palms, CA
I'M DAMNED SICK OF THE HATRED TOWARD HEALTH CARE FOR THE DISADVANTAGED. WHY DON'T WE JUST KILL THEM OFF AND SAVE A LOT OF SUFFERING?
SHOULDN'T ABORTIONS BE INCREASED, AND FUNDING FOR FERTILITY TREATMENTS DECREASED? THAT WOULD MAKE YOU HAPPY NO DOUBT!
Mannuel or Manny whichever you prefer, you are the internet equivalent of the crazy aunt in the attic. No, we don't have a Marxist administration. There aren't commies hiding in the closet.
We DO have a constitutional scholar in the White House, widely acknowledged by both Republicans and Democrats over the years for his excellence in the legal field and ability to bring opposing parties together for constructive outcomes.
Only now is the GOP so panicked that hellfire and brimstone must be hauled out of the basement to throw on the most popular president in many decades.
The American people have spoken, yes. Health care is a major priority. Burger-flipping without medical insurance is not going to take care of a family.
U S wealthy should pay for health care overhaul, poll finds
Data could boost House plan to tax top-tier earners
By Erica Werner and Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar, Associated Press | November 18, 2009
WASHINGTON - Americans don’t want to shoulder the cost of President Obama’s health care overhaul themselves. They think the rich should pay for it.
That’s the finding from a new Associated Press poll, and it could be a boost for House Democrats, whose plan approved this month proposed taxing upper-income people to fund their sweeping remake of the medical system.
The survey, conducted by Stanford University with the nonpartisan Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, found survey participants sour on other ways of paying for the health overhaul. The options they don’t like include taxing insurers on the high-value coverage packages known as “Cadillac plans.’’
Lawmakers also are looking at levying new taxes on insurance companies, drug companies, and medical device makers. But the only approach that drew majority support in the poll was a tax on upper-income Americans.
The House bill would impose a 5.4 percent income tax surcharge on individuals making more than $500,000 a year and households making more than $1 million. The poll tested views on an even more punitive taxation scheme that was under consideration earlier, when the tax would have hit people making more than $250,000 a year. Even at that level the poll showed majority support, with 57 percent in favor and 36 percent opposed.
Overall, the poll - like others recently - found the public split on Congress’ health care plans. In response to some questions, participants said the current system needed to be changed, but they also voiced concerns about the impact on their pocketbooks.
For example, 77 percent said the cost of health care in the United States was higher than it should be, but 49 percent said any changes made by the government probably would cause them to pay more for health care.
Working Hooves

El Paso, TX

#37 Nov 21, 2009
Rey wrote:
BB, thats because they are fruit, no sleight of hand on my part. I see a need for a change, but the current plan doesnt solve anything.
The facts are that there are major problems with the current government programs and the proposed plan only makes it worse.
It has become an idealogical farce instead of keeping it as ahealthcare issue.
Since Reagan was elected in 1980, nominal US GDP has risen by a factor of 5 (from $2.77 Trillion to $13.86 Trillion in 2007).

Over the same period, the US national debt has gone up by a factor of more than 11 times (from $930 Billion to about $11 Trillion in 2007). Reagan tripled the debt and Bush43 doubled it - both of these periods were times of economic expansion, when the debt should have been paid down, or at least maintained. Bush41 Sr. also added to the debt. Only that socialist pinko tax-&-spend Liberal, Bill Clinton, actually reduced the debt via budget
surpluses.

So the self-proclaimed 'fiscal conservatives' expanded debt at more than twice the rate of nominal GDP growth, over a period of 30 years (not including tens of $Trillions of unfunded future liabilities that are not officially counted as part of the federal debt, or $Trillions more in debts and liabilities of state agencies and pension funds).

This is the primary cause of the US fiscal crisis - this and financial deregulation, and artificially low interest rates. At least one major recession was deferred during the 90's and 00's by means of Greenspan's giveaway interest rate policy. The asset bubbles (tech, real estate) and resulting debt were allowed to accumulate, so the phony 'expansion' could keep on going.

The 'economic miracle' of Reaganomics was built on debt that piled up at more than twice the rate of macroeconomic growth. It was all an illusion.

The inevitable finally happened 2 years ago, when the housing market, derivatives markets (created by deregulation), corporate bond market, the banking system, consumer credit and consumer demand all collapsed within a few months.

And people like Sgt Alvarez and EP Cynic are pissed that this f*cking mess hasn't been fixed yet?!? As if it should take no more than a f*cking year to fix 30 years of mismanagement?!?

Seriously - why are Pugs so stupid? WTF would Palin do? Snicker, snicker!!!
Manuel Alvarez

El Paso, TX

#38 Nov 21, 2009
So BB you attack me for not being an expert but what about you? I guess you’re an expert in the finance of Medicare and Medicaid, right BB. Have you done any “legwork and extensive research” BB? The true is you have not and are only repeating ultra liberal lies. Once again BB, you show just how biased you really are.

BB what happened, I thought you said Gallup Poll was the golden standard in polling?? There you go again cherry-picking information to fit your warped thinking.

The French health care system is the way to go, really?!? BB maybe YOUR research is lacking but the average French citizen forks over close to 13% of their paycheck to the French government. Yet for all that tax, over 90% of French citizens PAY OUT OF POCKET TO GET COMPLIMENTARY PRIVATE INSURANCE! If the French system is as great as you claim then why must so many HAVE to buy extra insurance??! Just in case you are wondering where I got this information from Cato, here is the direct quote:

"If the French system is so great as you claim then why must so many HAVE to buy extra insurance??! Most services require substantial copayments, ranging from 10 to 40 percent of the cost. As a result, French consumers pay for roughly 13 percent of health care out of pocket, roughly the same percentage as U.S. consumers.53 Moreover, because many health care services are not covered, and because many of the best providers refuse to accept the fee schedules imposed by the insurance funds, more than 92 percent of French residents purchase complementary private insurance.54 In fact, private insurance now makes up roughly 12.7 percent of all health care spending in France, a percentage exceeded only by the Netherlands (15.2percent) and the United States (35 percent) among industrialized countries."

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-613.pdf
Rita Ballou

El Paso, TX

#39 Nov 21, 2009
Gina, Rey, JMS, and Manny: I'm still waiting to hear how much you pay for your health insurance. Sgt Manuel: are you active or retired military? You folks apparently have NO IDEA of what an individual must pay for health insurance these days.
Manuel Alvarez

El Paso, TX

#40 Nov 21, 2009
StinkPile wrote “We DO have a constitutional scholar in the White House, widely acknowledged by both Republicans and Democrats over the years for his excellence in the legal field and ability to bring opposing parties together for constructive outcomes.” SP you are truly a pile of something. BHO graduated from Harvard Law School, and then taught law at the University of Chicago. As far as practicing law, well according to Obama he “was an associate, and a lot of my work was in the research and writing.” Obama’s boss at the law firm (Miner Barnhill & Galland) had this to say about BHO “He wrote lots of substantial memos, but he didn't try any cases.” The Chicago Sun-Times goes on to report “His practice was confined mainly to federal court in Chicago, where he made formal appearances in only five district court cases and another five in cases before the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals -- a total of 10 cases in his legal career. He was on the winning side of just about all those cases. Miner said there were 30 cases to which Obama contributed in some way.” So 10 cases make BHO a “constitutional scholar?” The way Obama is shredding the Constitution I seriously doubt it. The reality is BHO career (if you can call it that) as a lawyer was very short.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/obama/7...
Blogging Boyd

El Paso, TX

#41 Nov 21, 2009
Manuel Alvarez wrote:
But I digress, your right BB I have not gone through the “raw data”, but have YOU!? I seriously doubt it. Sgt Manuel Alvarez USMC
29 Palms, CA
There is a big difference between you and me. I am not questioning the HHS data and making claims that the Bush lead HHS is lying and giving out misleading information, you are. I will let the government experts make those determinations, because they are the experts in that field and you are not. Why on earth do you think you know more than these people?
Manuel Alvarez

El Paso, TX

#42 Nov 21, 2009
Rita first let me repeat what I posted earlier,“America’s current health care system is not perfect by any means. But the current proposed reforms would make our health care WORSE.” There are some great alternatives to what liberal Democrats are proposing. One mentioned but attack is tort reform. Yes tort form would reduce health care costs for everyone. Has anyone done a little research on the Patients’ Choice Act? Here are some highlights: a) Equalize tax treatment, in other words take the tax benefit and delink it from the job and reattach it to the worker, so that everybody, regardless of how they get their health insurance, receives the benefit. b) Give a tax credit of $5,700 to families and $2,700 to individuals, regardless if your working, change jobs, lose your job, or are self employed. c) Help the poor, I know shocking. Turn Medicaid into voucher; place $5,000 on a card IN ADDITION to the previous tax credit. A family under the poverty line would benefit by a little over $11,000. For people up to double the poverty line, that cash benefit phases from $5,000 down to $2,500. The above is tax neutral, in short NO NEW TAXES and who can argue with that. d) Allow for the purchase of health insurance across state lines or set up in-state exchanges to allow individuals to compare different insurance programs. This would allow for increased competition between health insurance companies, which in turn would lower costs.

I recently got out of the Marine Corps and pay for insurance out of pocket. Rita you write “You folks apparently have NO IDEA of what an individual must pay for health insurance these days” sounds like you are upset the military receives free health care. But the truth is there are different levels of TRICARE, some are free and others are similar to private insurance, premiums and co pays included.

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