What would God think??

[Concerned]

I have read through the many “religious” Topix, and must ask: What does God think about this?

Instead of trying to teach one another and learn from one another you spend your time tearing one another down. You mock, call names, are sarcastic, arrogant….but in Christian love? I don’t think so.

As Christians we should all love one another. Sure there will always be disagreements and conflicts of opinions, but can’t we discuss these civilly? To those that are not Christians and decide to look at this in hopes to find a sound congregation, what are they going to find? Arguments, hostility, sarcasm, name calling….what message does that send?

This is not to one person, this message is to all. There are topix that have been set up for the sole purpose of tearing someone down or gossip, and the messages are all from “Christians” This is not only upsetting but scary that this issue even exists among fellow Christians.

Concerned

[william]

Just as we are to show "God's grace in it's various forms", perhaps a larger love for mankind takes on various forms as well.
I'm sorry if things I've said have bothered you.
When Peter messed up and sinned, Paul "rebuked him to his face".
We can't get to their faces, but we are doing the best we can.

william

[Carla - The real one]

AMEN CONCERNED! Well said.

[TexasRunner]

*AGREED*

[Concerned 09]

william wrote:

Just as we are to show "God's grace in it's various forms", perhaps a larger love for mankind takes on various forms as well.
I'm sorry if things I've said have bothered you.
When Peter messed up and sinned, Paul "rebuked him to his face".
We can't get to their faces, but we are doing the best we can.
william

What a response, I never expected someone to apologize for the bothersome comments. Truly amazing and very much appreciated.

It is not what is being said that is bothersome, but how it is all said. This is not solely directed to you of course, you are just the one that commented back regarding the matter. There appears to be hostility and anger amongst those who are debating God's word. The truth needs to be shown through Gods word, and then left alone. Why dwell on something or someone we know will not agree. Sadly to say, we will always have disagreements regarding the Word, but cannot "beat" it into someone. I am very passionate about this matter and about respect for other people. What I see on these posts are not respectful nor to they appear to be posts made by Christian brethren.

[Bobby]

I agree that these religious messages seem to take on a life of their own.

To be honest with you I have all but given up on making any headway. Those who believe that others cannot be a Christian unless you are in their church are capable of leading people astray. I guess my goal has become one of working to see that they get no converts.

Watch Heath jump over here and make this thread another one for his games.

[Thankful for grace]

Concerned 09 wrote:

<quoted text>
What a response, I never expected someone to apologize for the bothersome comments. Truly amazing and very much appreciated.
It is not what is being said that is bothersome, but how it is all said. This is not solely directed to you of course, you are just the one that commented back regarding the matter. There appears to be hostility and anger amongst those who are debating God's word. The truth needs to be shown through Gods word, and then left alone. Why dwell on something or someone we know will not agree. Sadly to say, we will always have disagreements regarding the Word, but cannot "beat" it into someone. I am very passionate about this matter and about respect for other people. What I see on these posts are not respectful nor to they appear to be posts made by Christian brethren.

I, too apologize if anything I have said has been taken offensively or turned anyone away-that has certainly not been my intention whatsoever. I guess the reason I have continued is that I don't want people to think those guys represent Christianity or the Churches of Christ I affiliate with, but certainly do not want to have added to the problem. I admit I can get pretty passionate and frustrated with their continued defiance and abuse of others, and then for someone to play the role of "satan" while claiming to be a Christian really gets under my skin. I agree the Truth can and will stand by itself, and does not need our debating for it to shine through.

I serve and Amazing Savior, and I hate it when His name and image gets rubbed into the ground. I also realize we live in a very post-Christian society, and much of that is due to the hostility and hypocrisy others see emanating from us at times. Again, I apologize if I have added to the problem.

[Thankful for grace]

Bobby wrote:

I agree that these religious messages seem to take on a life of their own.
To be honest with you I have all but given up on making any headway. Those who believe that others cannot be a Christian unless you are in their church are capable of leading people astray. I guess my goal has become one of working to see that they get no converts.
Watch Heath jump over here and make this thread another one for his games.

I know, Bobby-I think that has been my goal, too-but I hope it has not come at a cost.

[Jamaican Joe]

CONFESSION TO EVIL:

BOBBY: "I guess my goal has become one of working to see that they get no converts."

"AMAZING" GRACE: "...Bobby-I think that has been my goal, too-but I hope it has not come at a cost."

It is one thing to confess, but an altogether different thing to forsake. Some have confessed only because they're caught.

Another thing, read again Acts 5:33-39:'When they heard this, they were furious and plotted to kill them. Then one in the council stood up, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in respect by all the people, and commanded them to put the apostles outside for a little while. And he said to them: "Men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do regarding these men. For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody. A number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was slain, and all who obeyed him were scattered and came to nothing. After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census, and drew away many people after him. He also perished, and all who obeyed him were dispersed. And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it--lest you even be found to fight against God."'

[Concerned 09]

There will always be debates and disagreements in the religious world. If you truly believe something, you will stand up for it and defend what you believe. Look at the nation we live in, is this where a Christian wants to live? Instead of pulling apart, why aren’t we coming together as a stronghold and showing the world that we will not conform to their ways. Focusing on tearing one another down has turned our focus away from building one another up and edifying one another. Can anyone on here tell me that they are happy with all of the changes we are seeing or how worldly America has become? Are we not adding to the problem treating one another in this way? I speak to myself when I say these words as well. It is not my intent to offend or act as if I am on a pedestal. I am equal to each and every one of you.

[Bobby]

Jamaican Joe wrote:

CONFESSION TO EVIL:
BOBBY: "I guess my goal has become one of working to see that they get no converts."
"AMAZING" GRACE: "...Bobby-I think that has been my goal, too-but I hope it has not come at a cost."
It is one thing to confess, but an altogether different thing to forsake. Some have confessed only because they're caught.
Another thing, read again Acts 5:33-39:'When they heard this, they were furious and plotted to kill them. Then one in the council stood up, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in respect by all the people, and commanded them to put the apostles outside for a little while. And he said to them: "Men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do regarding these men. For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody. A number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was slain, and all who obeyed him were scattered and came to nothing. After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census, and drew away many people after him. He also perished, and all who obeyed him were dispersed. And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it--lest you even be found to fight against God."'

Cults are cults and not Christians. Cults use the bible too. I don't want to see anyone have to live their lives stuck in a cult, that would be very un-loving.

[Concerned 09]

Bobby wrote:

<quoted text>
Cults are cults and not Christians. Cults use the bible too. I don't want to see anyone have to live their lives stuck in a cult, that would be very un-loving.

When you make this statement are you refering to a select group of people? Who are you seeing that is in a cult? I am not asking this to gossip or bring up trouble, I am only trying to understand what has caused everyone to speak so negatively about one another.

[Jamaican Joe]

Bobby wrote:

<quoted text>
Cults are cults and not Christians. Cults use the bible too. I don't want to see anyone have to live their lives stuck in a cult, that would be very un-loving.

You are aware Bob, that the most characteristic feature of a cult is the unswerving devotion to an individual. Another feature of a cult is the fact that they are not allowed to question doctrine or authority. Now, you and Bill especially spare little effort in your attempt to highlight how factiuous the churches of Christ are inclined to be. Now Bob, isn't this a contradiction - that the same group that is deemed factiuous is now also deemed a cult? Can't you see that both of these can't go together.

Now, make up your mind, Bob, are the churches of Christ factiuous are a cult? If they are factiuous, is it just possible that it is because they DO have much liberty to question doctrine and authority? And if they are a cult, could it be that their object of devotion be Christ, since they are so insistent on their affinity to Christ, to the extent that they are so proud of their designation "church of Christ"???

Come on Bob, come on Bill, come on "Amazing" Grace - you can't eat your cake and have it.

[wondering]

Heath,
Do you believe that God answers prayers?

a simple yes or no is an adequate answer.

[Bobby]

Concerned 09 wrote:

<quoted text>
When you make this statement are you refering to a select group of people? Who are you seeing that is in a cult? I am not asking this to gossip or bring up trouble, I am only trying to understand what has caused everyone to speak so negatively about one another.

This is a very fair question. Since I was raised in the same coc, I know all their hidden agenda. If I were to say that Jehovah witnesses are a cult, most people would not doubt it.

However, because there are so many good coc's it is hard to paint it with the same broad brush. This bunch, except tfg is literally denies most important issues of the faith. I no longer consider them to be Christians.

Keep in mind they believe everyone not in their particular church is lost. This is the first sign to look for in a cult.

[Bobby]

Read this site and you will see what I mean.

http://ex-churchofchrist.com/

[Jamaican Joe]

Bobby wrote:

<quoted text>
This is a very fair question. Since I was raised in the same coc, I know all their hidden agenda. If I were to say that Jehovah witnesses are a cult, most people would not doubt it.
However, because there are so many good coc's it is hard to paint it with the same broad brush. This bunch, except tfg is literally denies most important issues of the faith. I no longer consider them to be Christians.
Keep in mind they believe everyone not in their particular church is lost. This is the first sign to look for in a cult.

Now Bob, don't believe you're going to get away with this slinking attempt to evade the post below, not dealing with challenge posed to you and at the same time attempting to pull the wool over "Concerned's eyes. I put it to you, this claim, "This is the first sign to look for in a cult" is far from true. Any expert in cultic activities will tell you that this is not so. Now, please deal with the issues below which is before you. I challenge you again, based on the main characteristicts of a cult can a group be factiuous and a cult all at the same time. Please deal with this, Bob, don't slink away!!!

JAMAICAN JOE WROTE EARLIER:
"You are aware Bob, that the most characteristic feature of a cult is the unswerving devotion to an individual. Another feature of a cult is the fact that they are not allowed to question doctrine or authority. Now, you and Bill especially spare little effort in your attempt to highlight how factiuous the churches of Christ are inclined to be. Now Bob, isn't this a contradiction - that the same group that is deemed factiuous is now also deemed a cult? Can't you see that both of these can't go together.

Now, make up your mind, Bob, are the churches of Christ factiuous are a cult? If they are factiuous, is it just possible that it is because they DO have much liberty to question doctrine and authority? And if they are a cult, could it be that their object of devotion be Christ, since they are so insistent on their affinity to Christ, to the extent that they are so proud of their designation "church of Christ"???

Come on Bob, come on Bill, come on 'Amazing' Grace - you can't eat your cake and have it."

[Bobby]

JAMAICAN JOE WROTE EARLIER:
"You are aware Bob, that the most characteristic feature of a cult is the unswerving devotion to an individual. Another feature of a cult is the fact that they are not allowed to question doctrine or authority. Now, you and Bill especially spare little effort in your attempt to highlight how factiuous the churches of Christ are inclined to be. Now Bob, isn't this a contradiction - that the same group that is deemed factiuous is now also deemed a cult? Can't you see that both of these can't go together.

Now, make up your mind, Bob, are the churches of Christ factiuous are a cult? If they are factiuous, is it just possible that it is because they DO have much liberty to question doctrine and authority? And if they are a cult, could it be that their object of devotion be Christ, since they are so insistent on their affinity to Christ, to the extent that they are so proud of their designation "church of Christ"???

Than you for posting this.

[Bobby]

JAMAICAN JOE WROTE EARLIER:
"You are aware Bob, that the most characteristic feature of a cult is the unswerving devotion to an individual.

Even in the early years when Alexander Campbell founded the coc he was accused by many as a cult leader. Take a look at some if the cults we have today.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS Charles Taze Russell their leader.

Mormons leader Joseph Smith, their leader.

7th day Adventist, Ellen G. White, their leader.

All of these leaders have long since died, but the cult continues on.

All of these including the coc came from the restoration period, each fighting for the right to be the only true church.

[Bobby]

Now for the idea of questioning authority. The coc (legalist part) does have a hierarchy. It consist of a loosely connected group of tract writers and schools of preaching.

They have control through the system of dis-fellowship. I have seen a number of coc congregations that are dis-fellowshiped. They are those so called un-erring brethren. There are so many factions that no one has the courage to say exactly which one is the true church anymore.

If a new member came to heath's church and began to disagree on some things, he would either have to publicly denounce his position of faith or be dis-fellowshiped.

Yep, control of what is taught and believed is strictly enforced in the legal arm of the coc.

They have disfeloweshipped many of the large churches like Richland hills coc.

Even those her have dis-fellowshiped Bobby, thankful for grace and William.