Man threatening suicide attacks cops, dies after they use Taser

[JTY]

77deadhead wrote:

<quoted text>
To be perfectly honest with you, if I were all jacked up on a drug I'd take my chances with the baton, flashlight over the tazer anyday. I may have some broken knee caps but at least I'd still be alive!

Plus with a broken knee you could sue for police brutality.

[Consistent]

Concerned in Twin Cities wrote:

There definitely appears to be something going on with the taser with regard to those on drugs and maybe other conditions. I don't know who the volunteers are going to be to help them prove that. I wouldn't willfully take drugs and stand still for a taser. I still continue to believe that unless an individual is mentally ill/challenged and unable to make appropriate choices for herself/himself the individual facing the taser bears some responsibility for what their behavior is likely to be if they take a drug and it becomes necessary to call the police to control their behavior.
I still continue to think this was an inexperienced young man who unfortunately took a dangerous drug. Had he been fully aware of the dangers of LSD, I would hope he would have then chosen not to take it. I know what I've heard about LSD through the years scares me to death. I've never even been tempted to try any drugs beyond what a doctor prescribes and I can tell you that my prescriptions have been pretty danged boring. One of the prescriptions I took did injure me badly though and I ended up with major surgery.
<quoted text>

As an addict I wont take a prescription from a Dr. for pain meds. It is a luxury I cannot have...I blew my chance to be "normal".
But I survived my mis-spent youth and my relapse. Got paper out of the deal...but I am alive and typin'.

[Concerned in Twin Cities]

Consistent wrote:

<quoted text>
As an addict I wont take a prescription from a Dr. for pain meds. It is a luxury I cannot have...I blew my chance to be "normal".
But I survived my mis-spent youth and my relapse. Got paper out of the deal...but I am alive and typin'.

I am one of those who gets an instant case of hives (my throat even) from any of the narcotic pain meds. The last time I had a surgery (gallbladder) they didn't even know what to give me for the pain. As it turns out I can take an analgesic (Ultram) and it continues to work for me. I'm thankful for that because I do have some chronic pain (from a prescription that physically injured me and resulted in major surgery).

I've always figured it this way, be it a drug or alcohol - I'm in a constant mode of wanting to do something creative and I always figure I'm not going to be able to do that if I am in any kind of an intoxicated state. My high is being creative with something - and it does give me a high (sense of satisfaction). I read, write, paint, sew, refinish furniture, thrift shop and on and on. I would even do woodworking if I wasn't so afraid sawing my fingers off with a saw. There are a multitude of different things to occupy one's mind with besides giving oneself a high from drugs. Why would someone even waste their time? Drugs are a definite waste of time.

[Consistent]

Concerned in Twin Cities wrote:

<quoted text>
I am one of those who gets an instant case of hives (my throat even) from any of the narcotic pain meds. The last time I had a surgery (gallbladder) they didn't even know what to give me for the pain. As it turns out I can take an analgesic (Ultram) and it continues to work for me. I'm thankful for that because I do have some chronic pain (from a prescription that physically injured me and resulted in major surgery).
I've always figured it this way, be it a drug or alcohol - I'm in a constant mode of wanting to do something creative and I always figure I'm not going to be able to do that if I am in any kind of an intoxicated state. My high is being creative with something - and it does give me a high (sense of satisfaction). I read, write, paint, sew, refinish furniture, thrift shop and on and on. I would even do woodworking if I wasn't so afraid sawing my fingers off with a saw. There are a multitude of different things to occupy one's mind with besides giving oneself a high from drugs. Why would someone even waste their time? Drugs are a definite waste of time.

All human beings seek an "Altered state". It is as natural as breathing. It is the failure of our culture to recognize this truth, that causes us to condem certain substances that bring us to an Altered state.
This kid who was killed, was using a substance that he reacted badly to. The substance he chose to use, caused the action of the use of the Taser, to kill him.
I dont know him, but I suspect he was a typical kid, inexperienced and naive about the substance he "altered" with.
I am pretty sure that if you said "son, this shat gonna do some real bad things to you", he would have chose a healthier substance to alter with.

No Law is going to stop Humans from seeking the Altered state......it just makes some peoples choices criminal.
Do any believe that Alcohol is a good substance, vs ...say reefer? Nope it is probably the worst drug humans can use, and yet its use and abuse is legal and acceptable to the culture.

My contention that all humans seek an "Altered State".......

Auntie Sue picks up little 2 year old Buffy. Gives a big hug, spins in a circle, gets carried away, and Buffy screams because the spinning scares her.
Auntie is chuckling having fun with Buffy.
Auntie sets Buffy down on the floor and Buffy wobbles and falls down. We all laugh at how cute she is.
What is the very next thing buffy does?

She raises her arms to Auntie and says........"Do it Again"!!!!

The Altered State was so enjoyable to this 2 year old human, that she forgot about the downside (fear), because the high,(Altered State) was so good.

Cops need to recognize that all humans are at times in their life, "not their best".
If someone is in crisis, it doesnt matter why. We all will be in crisis some time in our 80 years. We all deserve help from our fellow humanbeings who are failed too.

[Concerned in Twin Cities]

Consistent wrote:

<quoted text>
All human beings seek an "Altered state". It is as natural as breathing. It is the failure of our culture to recognize this truth, that causes us to condem certain substances that bring us to an Altered state.
This kid who was killed, was using a substance that he reacted badly to. The substance he chose to use, caused the action of the use of the Taser, to kill him.
I dont know him, but I suspect he was a typical kid, inexperienced and naive about the substance he "altered" with.
I am pretty sure that if you said "son, this shat gonna do some real bad things to you", he would have chose a healthier substance to alter with.
No Law is going to stop Humans from seeking the Altered state......it just makes some peoples choices criminal.
Do any believe that Alcohol is a good substance, vs ...say reefer? Nope it is probably the worst drug humans can use, and yet its use and abuse is legal and acceptable to the culture.
My contention that all humans seek an "Altered State".......
Auntie Sue picks up little 2 year old Buffy. Gives a big hug, spins in a circle, gets carried away, and Buffy screams because the spinning scares her.
Auntie is chuckling having fun with Buffy.
Auntie sets Buffy down on the floor and Buffy wobbles and falls down. We all laugh at how cute she is.
What is the very next thing buffy does?
She raises her arms to Auntie and says........"Do it Again"!!!!
The Altered State was so enjoyable to this 2 year old human, that she forgot about the downside (fear), because the high,(Altered State) was so good.
Cops need to recognize that all humans are at times in their life, "not their best".
If someone is in crisis, it doesnt matter why. We all will be in crisis some time in our 80 years. We all deserve help from our fellow humanbeings who are failed too.

I guess my altered state must be my many hobbies. I just automatically see the downside of drugs and alcohol and choose not to partake. In the case of this young man, his brother no doubt tried helping him and out of fear of the situation called the police for help. An investigation is being done and we'll hopefully know the outcome of that investigation soon. Sometimes these investigations take so long, findings of them are made known long after the fact.

[JTY]

Consistent wrote:

<quoted text>
All human beings seek an "Altered state". It is as natural as breathing. It is the failure of our culture to recognize this truth, that causes us to condem certain substances that bring us to an Altered state.
This kid who was killed, was using a substance that he reacted badly to. The substance he chose to use, caused the action of the use of the Taser, to kill him.
I dont know him, but I suspect he was a typical kid, inexperienced and naive about the substance he "altered" with.
I am pretty sure that if you said "son, this shat gonna do some real bad things to you", he would have chose a healthier substance to alter with.
No Law is going to stop Humans from seeking the Altered state......it just makes some peoples choices criminal.
Do any believe that Alcohol is a good substance, vs ...say reefer? Nope it is probably the worst drug humans can use, and yet its use and abuse is legal and acceptable to the culture.
My contention that all humans seek an "Altered State".......
Auntie Sue picks up little 2 year old Buffy. Gives a big hug, spins in a circle, gets carried away, and Buffy screams because the spinning scares her.
Auntie is chuckling having fun with Buffy.
Auntie sets Buffy down on the floor and Buffy wobbles and falls down. We all laugh at how cute she is.
What is the very next thing buffy does?
She raises her arms to Auntie and says........"Do it Again"!!!!
The Altered State was so enjoyable to this 2 year old human, that she forgot about the downside (fear), because the high,(Altered State) was so good.
Cops need to recognize that all humans are at times in their life, "not their best".
If someone is in crisis, it doesnt matter why. We all will be in crisis some time in our 80 years. We all deserve help from our fellow humanbeings who are failed too.

Do you have some kind of proof to back up you claim that "all humans seek an altered state"? Are you also trying to claim that getting scared or other emotional responses to every day stimuli is the same as wanting to take drugs? You also seem to be advocating for less personal respectability for drug/substance users, and more tolerance for drug users (and I don't meen pot smokers).

[Consistent]

I will never provide "proof" for any "opinion I share on this site.
I will attempmt to explain my position, and illustrate it as best I can, if not sucessful I will attempt ane more time. This is that one more time.
I despise Wikipedia, but am to tired to dig to hard this AM so here ya go.
..........
An altered state of consciousness, also named altered state of mind is any condition which is significantly different from a normal waking beta wave state. The expression was coined by Charles Tart and describes induced changes in one's mental state, almost always temporary. A synonymous phrase is "altered states of awareness". An associated body of research has been conducted in trance and this is becoming the predominant auspice terminology. Trance includes all "altered states of consciousness" as well as the various forms of waking trance states.

An altered state of consciousness can come about accidentally through, for example, fever, sleep deprivation, fasting, oxygen deprivation, nitrogen narcosis (deep diving), or a traumatic accident.

It can sometimes be reached intentionally by the use of sensory deprivation, Isolation tank, sleep deprivation or mind-control techniques, hypnosis, meditation, prayer, or disciplines (e.g. Mantra Meditation, Yoga, Sufism or Surat Shabda Yoga).

It can also be attained through the ingestion of psychoactive drugs such as alcohol and opiates, or more commonly with entheogenic plants and their derivative chemicals such as LSD, DXM, 2C-I, peyote, marijuana, mescaline, Salvia divinorum, MDMA, psychedelic mushrooms, ayahuasca or datura (Jimson weed).

Another effective way to induce an altered state of consciousness is using a variety of Neurotechnology such as psychoacoustics, light and sound stimulation, cranial electrotherapy stimulation, and such; these methods attempt to induce specific brainwave patterns, and a particular altered state of consciousness.

Naturally occurring altered states of consciousness include dreams, lucid dreams, euphoria, ecstasy, psychosis as well as purported premonitions, out-of-body experiences, and channeling

[Consistent]

I would add to the list...
Adrenalin Junkies (Cops, Skydivers, Bungie Jumping, Base diving, Demo Derby Drivers, Roller Coaster Riders, Gamblers, Horror Movie Viewers....and on and on, add your own)

I also contend that orgasm from sexual stimulation induces an altered state.( it is a "Gift" form God that keeps us procreating.
I dont mean to introduce God to this by pointing out that the "Altered State" is as human as breathing, another human need from God.

[Concerned in Twin Cities]

That just makes me think of all the alternative ways of arriving an "Altered State" besides taking drugs and drinking alcohol. Lots of options there.

[Consistent]

Yessssss...exactly!

But if I, as a Free Citizen of the United States of America, arrive in an Altered State using an unapproved substance, or with an unapproved behavior. I risk the wrath of the Law. Up to and including Death at the hands of those tasked with enforcing the Laws created by Lawyers(politicians), that use the Law to limit my FREEDOM in the name of "safety" (Right) or "Fairness" (Left).

I am a Libertarian and I want the Law to be created with only one question...."How will this Law affect Freedom and Liberty".

If the substance this kid used to attain an altered state, or the kid in the accident, had not been in an altered state (Natural Human Need, Remember), and if police were not trained and conditioned to react to simply "Enforce the Law", but rather to assume the better of humans, these two may well be alive today.

Sometimes trying to help hurts....I get it!

If our culture didnt live in "fear" of crime (a tool of the Ruling Political Class/Government Employee...."we need them to protect us"), Police would have a completely different role.

Today the "Protect" is predominant, because of irrational fear. And the "Serve", is narrowly defined to reflect the act of "Protect"

[Unbelievable]

Consistent wrote:

Yessssss...exactly!
But if I, as a Free Citizen of the United States of America, arrive in an Altered State using an unapproved substance, or with an unapproved behavior. I risk the wrath of the Law. Up to and including Death at the hands of those tasked with enforcing the Laws created by Lawyers(politicians), that use the Law to limit my FREEDOM in the name of "safety" (Right) or "Fairness" (Left).
I am a Libertarian and I want the Law to be created with only one question...."How will this Law affect Freedom and Liberty".
If the substance this kid used to attain an altered state, or the kid in the accident, had not been in an altered state (Natural Human Need, Remember), and if police were not trained and conditioned to react to simply "Enforce the Law", but rather to assume the better of humans, these two may well be alive today.
Sometimes trying to help hurts....I get it!
If our culture didnt live in "fear" of crime (a tool of the Ruling Political Class/Government Employee...."we need them to protect us"), Police would have a completely different role.
Today the "Protect" is predominant, because of irrational fear. And the "Serve", is narrowly defined to reflect the act of "Protect"

Once again i will remind you that "protect is serve" is a slogan on police cars, not a rule, and its not on my squad.

Second, if he wants to enter an "altered state" in the privacy of his own home, more power to him. The police were called and they are required to respond. They dont get to decide, well, this guy dosnt actually need us."

Drugs are illegal becouse they kill you. I dont want to pay for your fried brain to live in an institution your last 30 years. Drugs kill. Ever seen somebody who uses meth? Didnt think so.

If you could do drugs at home, and never leave they would probably be legal, but becouse they are addictive, and people rob, steal and murder to get drugs they are illegal. Thats why police deal with people on drugs. People on drugs break other laws, they are "GEnerallly" not good people.

PS. just talked with a paramedic in northern metro who had a man on drugs, did not fight with police, and he died due to Excited Delirium in the ambulance. Hmmm thats the same thing this guy died of. And one guy was tasered, one wasnt. What did they have in common, excited delirium due to drug overdose!!!

[Consistent]

Unbelievable wrote:

<quoted text>
Once again i will remind you that "protect is serve" is a slogan on police cars, not a rule, and its not on my squad.
Second, if he wants to enter an "altered state" in the privacy of his own home, more power to him. The police were called and they are required to respond. They dont get to decide, well, this guy dosnt actually need us."
Drugs are illegal becouse they kill you. I dont want to pay for your fried brain to live in an institution your last 30 years. Drugs kill. Ever seen somebody who uses meth? Didnt think so.
If you could do drugs at home, and never leave they would probably be legal, but becouse they are addictive, and people rob, steal and murder to get drugs they are illegal. Thats why police deal with people on drugs. People on drugs break other laws, they are "GEnerallly" not good people.
PS. just talked with a paramedic in northern metro who had a man on drugs, did not fight with police, and he died due to Excited Delirium in the ambulance. Hmmm thats the same thing this guy died of. And one guy was tasered, one wasnt. What did they have in common, excited delirium due to drug overdose!!!

........"Drugs are illegal becouse they kill you. I dont want to pay for your fried brain to live in an institution your last 30 years. Drugs kill. Ever seen somebody who uses meth? Didnt think so.".......

No illegal drugs are illegal.
The worst drug to ever destroy humanity is Alcohol.
I dont want to pay for you to live your last 30 years in an institution from a legal drug (Alcohol) as a result of your character defect that caused you to be an addict either.

I want you to free, and choose your own path to destruction, without anyone else dictating to you, what substance is ok to kill yourself with, and which substance isnt ok.

I am an Addict, but I am Consistent.

I blew my chance, because of my poor choices, to enjoy a nice "Fermented" beverage, a nice "Herb" from the garden, or my favorite, "Distilled Spirits from Carribean Cane Sugar.

I will let you in on a little known secret....Shhh....
Children who's parents are addicts, have a tendency to be addictive too.

Children of addicts, who lose their 3 year old daughter when they are 20 years old, tend to self medicate with their substance of choice, just like Dad.

Sometimes these daughters of addicts even do two "8 Balls" of "Meth" in 20 hours.
And sometimes the Dad of the suffering child needs to hug their daughter so tight, because her thrashing is uncontrolable, and as she is talking to her dead daughter she becomes even more psycotic.
And sometimes as he is restraining her to keep her from completing her suicide attempt, trying to join her dead daughter, the Dr will give her a shot.
And sometimes for the next 4 days the Dr will keep giving her shots to keep her in a Coma, attempting to save her life. And sometimes her life is saved from the "FACKING METH", you think I know nothing about!!!!!

And sometimes Dad needs to bring her to "Treatment" a total of 6 times before she finally undestands that she blew her chance to enjoy a nice Fermented beverage.

You dont like my position great, argue!
You want to impugn me you SOB....

[JTY]

You keep saying alcohol is the worst drug. I wonder how many meth, crack, and heroin addicts would disagree. What you should be saying is that alcohol is the most widely abused drug. In the hands of the reasonable and responsible alcohol is perfectly safe. A couple servings of alcohol a day actually has positive health benefits.

Using alcohol as a simile for other drugs is pointless because most of the illegal drugs are dangerous and/or deadly in any quantity (don't come after me pot heads, I said most).

[Concerned in Twin Cities]

Consistent wrote:

<quoted text>
........"Drugs are illegal becouse they kill you. I dont want to pay for your fried brain to live in an institution your last 30 years. Drugs kill. Ever seen somebody who uses meth? Didnt think so.".......
No illegal drugs are illegal.
The worst drug to ever destroy humanity is Alcohol.
I dont want to pay for you to live your last 30 years in an institution from a legal drug (Alcohol) as a result of your character defect that caused you to be an addict either.
I want you to free, and choose your own path to destruction, without anyone else dictating to you, what substance is ok to kill yourself with, and which substance isnt ok.
I am an Addict, but I am Consistent.
I blew my chance, because of my poor choices, to enjoy a nice "Fermented" beverage, a nice "Herb" from the garden, or my favorite, "Distilled Spirits from Carribean Cane Sugar.
I will let you in on a little known secret....Shhh....
Children who's parents are addicts, have a tendency to be addictive too.
Children of addicts, who lose their 3 year old daughter when they are 20 years old, tend to self medicate with their substance of choice, just like Dad.
Sometimes these daughters of addicts even do two "8 Balls" of "Meth" in 20 hours.
And sometimes the Dad of the suffering child needs to hug their daughter so tight, because her thrashing is uncontrolable, and as she is talking to her dead daughter she becomes even more psycotic.
And sometimes as he is restraining her to keep her from completing her suicide attempt, trying to join her dead daughter, the Dr will give her a shot.
And sometimes for the next 4 days the Dr will keep giving her shots to keep her in a Coma, attempting to save her life. And sometimes her life is saved from the "FACKING METH", you think I know nothing about!!!!!
And sometimes Dad needs to bring her to "Treatment" a total of 6 times before she finally undestands that she blew her chance to enjoy a nice Fermented beverage.
You dont like my position great, argue!
You want to impugn me you SOB....

I am quickly losing track of the position you are taking. You don't seem to be talking "taser" anymore, but something else entirely. I don't think people should have the freedom to use any substance they choose to kill themselves with. There are other individuals to be considered here. How about the children these individuals have brought into the world? Should the taxpayer be forever responsible for raising them because the drug addict/alcoholic parent chose to be irresponsible about their choice of intoxication and died? Should the child be forever damaged because the parent chose to die instead of being a responsible parent? Drugs absolutely should be against the law. The government already tried making alcohol an illegal substance - prohibition - and it didn't work.

I think we're getting off topic here.

[Consistent]

The day will come when one can attach the "Headset", and "take a trip without leaving the farm"
Until that day comes, no "LAW" will stop humans from picking and choosing what substance to abuse.

The finest drug to affect the human body is Opium in its various forms.. It has been illegal for how long?
How is that whole illegal thing workin for ya then there eh'?
The LAW stops nothing...it simply make criminals out of peoples choices!
And alcohol is the WORST drug ever, the most abused, the most destructive, the most incapacitating, the most costly to socity, responsible for more deaths by far than any other drug!!!
More children killed by drunk moms, more people killed by drunk drivers, more sex offenses while under its influence....ican keep going?

It is an awful substance that makes a lot of money for the Ruling Classes.... And i love it!!

It will have its grip on me until the day I die!
I am salivating just typing about it.

But I am a Free man, I chose, and I suffer for my choices. The LAW allowed me to choose, nobody Taser'd me abusing this Drug.

[Consistent]

Concerned in Twin Cities wrote:

<quoted text>
I am quickly losing track of the position you are taking. You don't seem to be talking "taser" anymore, but something else entirely. I don't think people should have the freedom to use any substance they choose to kill themselves with. There are other individuals to be considered here. How about the children these individuals have brought into the world? Should the taxpayer be forever responsible for raising them because the drug addict/alcoholic parent chose to be irresponsible about their choice of intoxication and died? Should the child be forever damaged because the parent chose to die instead of being a responsible parent? Drugs absolutely should be against the law. The government already tried making alcohol an illegal substance - prohibition - and it didn't work.
I think we're getting off topic here.

You hit upon the real issue.

No taxpayers are NOT responsible for ME. My choices, my children, my life. I am

Because the ruling class has decided that "It takes a Village", we have laws to limit my choices, just in case my choices may drain the wealth from the Village.

Now we are Talking Libertarian!

Leave me alone, I will leave you alone. YOU MAKE CHOICES I DESPISE!!

But go right ahead and be Free, make your choice, and live with your choice! I am not responsible for you or yours....unless I CHOOSE to be.

[JTY]

Consistent wrote:

The day will come when one can attach the "Headset", and "take a trip without leaving the farm"
Until that day comes, no "LAW" will stop humans from picking and choosing what substance to abuse.
The finest drug to affect the human body is Opium in its various forms.. It has been illegal for how long?
How is that whole illegal thing workin for ya then there eh'?
The LAW stops nothing...it simply make criminals out of peoples choices!
And alcohol is the WORST drug ever, the most abused, the most destructive, the most incapacitating, the most costly to socity, responsible for more deaths by far than any other drug!!!
More children killed by drunk moms, more people killed by drunk drivers, more sex offenses while under its influence....ican keep going?
It is an awful substance that makes a lot of money for the Ruling Classes.... And i love it!!
It will have its grip on me until the day I die!
I am salivating just typing about it.
But I am a Free man, I chose, and I suffer for my choices. The LAW allowed me to choose, nobody Taser'd me abusing this Drug.

Get drunk and attack a cop and I bet you will get tasered. Drunk people get tasered all the time. It's just doesn't make an interesting news story.

P.S. Laws don't stop people from doing lots of things (such as murder, rape, theft), does that make those laws pointless?

[Consistent]

JTY wrote:

<quoted text>
Get drunk and attack a cop and I bet you will get tasered. Drunk people get tasered all the time. It's just doesn't make an interesting news story.
P.S. Laws don't stop people from doing lots of things (such as murder, rape, theft), does that make those laws pointless?

I give up!...Please dont follow me around ignoring my points any more...ok?, I will leave you alone to ignore others.

[JTY]

I didn't ignore your points, I addressed them and refuted them. We obviously disagree on many sociological and criminal issues, but I feel as though I have given a reasonable argument for my stance.

[Unbelievable]

Consistent wrote:

<quoted text>
I give up!...Please dont follow me around ignoring my points any more...ok?, I will leave you alone to ignore others.

Obviously you still drink, becouse you now have past into a realm of making absolutely no sense at all. Once again you are on the fringe of quiting. Again. Go have a another beer.

Was the above rant your way of saying you and your daughter use meth? Becouse I dont believe you. People who use meth dont own computers. Although some of your rants have the thought pattern of a person on meth. Youve been typing for three days now, mabey you need a nap. Good luck to you consistant. You have some serious issues.