guest

United States

#49 Nov 14, 2012
More stupidity from a retarded liberal idiot.
Ray

Little Rock, AR

#50 Nov 14, 2012
guest wrote:
More stupidity from a retarded liberal idiot.
You are so clever! You sound like you may be a self-loathing, sexually repressed, angry white guy who sees he's out of step with younger, educated, emerging voters who are less racist, homophobic, and paranoid. You know what, you might enjoy a replica of the first mechanized dildo invented by Ben Franklin! It's the untold story of how he romanced French women into supporting us against the British. It uses a crank handle, kind of like the old hand mixers, and even has an attachment for the feather of your choice. I bet you could find a replica on Ebay and it would free you of a lot of that pent up anger and hostility! Give it a whirl-or a crank in this case. Have a liberal day!
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#51 Nov 14, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Not necessarily. In practical terms, the electors in each state cast their votes for President based on the popular vote of their state. So in one sense I agree with you.
Yet, that isn't the prescibed method detailed in the Constitution. Each state determines for itself how it will choose its electors, and it doesn't have to be done by popular vote.
<quoted text>
I said ELECTED OFFICIAL! Not appointed.
It's obvious you disagree with the method our nation has always employed to choose our President. However, I assure you that the electoral college has never failed. There never has been a time when the electoral college didn't result in the election of someone as President.
Now, if by failure you mean that someone was elected President, yet received less that half of the national popular vote, you are correct. But, under our system, it is the states who elect the President, not the people directly.
As I said before, that is by design. We don't live in a Democracy, we have a Republican form of government. We directly elect precious few of our federal representatives, and no legislation is passed by popular vote.
<quoted text>
That's not true! The Vice President is not elected by popular vote. Neither are any of the Justices of the Supreme Court, or any federal judge for that matter. None of the other government agents in the Executive Dept. are elected either, like the Secretaries of State, Defense, CIA, Treasury, etc. Those are crucial positions, and none of them are elected. And as I earlier pointed out, under the original Constitution, Senators were not elected by popular vote either.(BTW, I incorrectly said that was changed by the 13th Amendment. It was actually the 17th, ratified in 1913).
You seem to have a love and desire to live in a Democracy. That's okay, but you must understand that our form of government is not a Democracy, nor has it ever been.
We have a Republic, carefully crafted to unite 50 free and independent states. Our federal government was granted limited, specific powers to fulfill limited and specific duties. It was never intended to be a top down autocracy forcing its will upon and denying the independence of the states.
<quoted text>
As they say, you can't change someone's mind against their will.
I do find it very sad, and a shocking failure of our educational system, that there is such widespread ignorance of and appreciation for our form of government.
I believe failure to properly educate the population on these crucial matters has resulted in the people ignorantly allowing our once great nation to be destroyed from within.
I said ELECTED OFFICIAL! Not appointed good grief, trying to fight points not even raised.
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#52 Nov 14, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps if you would spend 15 minutes to actually read the Constitution it would clear up your confusion.
Read it numerous times. Makes me think of something else, have you read the Bill of Rights? Yep, right there before the constitution. Look at things happening on capital hill and some people who are in jail. Then read the Bill of Rights again. Why do you think Obama wants to take back gun rights.
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#53 Nov 14, 2012
Obamas the Man wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to understand this, Obama won by electoral AND popular.
Quit whining and sniveling. He's a WINNER both way! Quit
BOO Hooing and act like an adult.
In my post I wrote "Obama wins the popular vote, fine."
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#54 Nov 14, 2012
Belin wrote:
<quoted text>
Read it numerous times. Makes me think of something else, have you read the Bill of Rights? Yep, right there before the constitution. Look at things happening on capital hill and some people who are in jail. Then read the Bill of Rights again. Why do you think Obama wants to take back gun rights.
During the debates on the adoption of the Constitution, its opponents repeatedly charged that the Constitution as drafted would open the way to tyranny by the central government. Fresh in their minds was the memory of the British violation of civil rights before and during the Revolution. They demanded a "bill of rights" that would spell out the immunities of individual citizens. Several state conventions in their formal ratification of the Constitution asked for such amendments; others ratified the Constitution with the understanding that the amendments would be offered.
"On September 25, 1789, the First Congress of the United States therefore proposed to the state legislatures 12 amendments to the Constitution that met arguments most frequently advanced against it. The first two proposed amendments, which concerned the number of constituents for each Representative and the compensation of Congressmen, were not ratified. Articles 3 to 12, however, ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures, constitute the first 10 amendments of the Constitution, known as the Bill of Rights."
Wait a minute, let me see, the legislature, which had a President were voting and arguing about the constitution, so this country DID start as a democracy.
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#55 Nov 14, 2012
"The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to extend to any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the United States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any Foreign State.
AMENDMENT XII
Passed by Congress December 9, 1803. Ratified June 15, 1804.
Note: A portion of Article II, section 1 of the Constitution was superseded by the 12th amendment.
The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; -- the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; -- The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice.[And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.--]* The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States."
Wait, this means we started without the electoral college.
Rev Doright

Little Rock, AR

#56 Nov 14, 2012
Belin wrote:
<quoted text>
Read it numerous times. Makes me think of something else, have you read the Bill of Rights? Yep, right there before the constitution. Look at things happening on capital hill and some people who are in jail. Then read the Bill of Rights again. Why do you think Obama wants to take back gun rights.
President Obama has clearly stated that he nas no intentions of trying to take any citizen's gun or restrict their rights to them. A thorough review of his past speeches, statements, and public stances by a conservative journalist found that Obama has never taken any kind of gun control advocacy or even mentioned the subject.
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#57 Nov 15, 2012
Rev Doright wrote:
<quoted text>
President Obama has clearly stated that he nas no intentions of trying to take any citizen's gun or restrict their rights to them. A thorough review of his past speeches, statements, and public stances by a conservative journalist found that Obama has never taken any kind of gun control advocacy or even mentioned the subject.
Yes, he has;but he backed off the issue when he realized how unpopular it was. He still feels the same way and now doesn't have to worry about getting re-elected. Let's just watch and see what he does. That's all we can do for now.
guest

United States

#58 Nov 15, 2012
Belin wrote:
Wait a minute, let me see, the legislature, which had a President were voting and arguing about the constitution, so this country DID start as a democracy.
Before being replaced by the U.S. Constitution, our federal government was established and controlled by the Articles of Confederation, written in 1776, and ratified by 11 of the 13 colonies by the end of 1778. The remaining two ratified it by the end of 1781.

Under the Articles of Confederation, our government was not a Democracy as you claim, but rather was a Republic, just as we have always been. The Continental Congress was comprised of representatives from each colony who were appointed by the legislatures of each colony. They weren’t elected by popular vote like they are today.

The President of the Continental Congress was not in any way akin to the office of President we have today. The executive branch of government didn't yet exist. He was more like the Speaker of the House. In any event, it certainly wasn't a Democracy for the leaders weren't elected by popular vote, nor did the people directly enact any legislation.

Washington was our first President, the head of the newly formed executive branch of government, and he was elected by the electoral college. The only difference then from now is that the person receiving the 2nd most electoral college votes became Vice President, which in that case was John Adams.

You can continue to falsely claim that our nation is a Democracy, but you do so against the facts. You are simply wrong. Our nation has never been a Democracy. It has always been a Republic.

Class dismissed.
guest

United States

#59 Nov 15, 2012
Belin wrote:
Wait, this means we started without the electoral college.
Yep, because the Constitution created the Executive and Judicial branches of the federal government, along with the electoral college as the method to elect the President, and it was ratified until 1789.

Prior to ratification of the Constitution, our national government was created under the Articles of Confederation, which created only a Continental Congress comprised of representatives from the 13 colonies. Before the Constitution was ratified, we didn't have an Executive Branch of government, so obviously we didn't have a President to lead that branch, nor an electoral college to elect someone to an office that didn't yet exist.

That being said, our very first President, George Washington, was elected President by a unanimous vote of the electoral college. And that is the method that has been employed ever since.

You're straining gnats trying to find support for your errant claim that this nation is a Democracy. You'll find no support because it never has been.
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#60 Nov 15, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, because the Constitution created the Executive and Judicial branches of the federal government, along with the electoral college as the method to elect the President, and it was ratified until 1789.
Prior to ratification of the Constitution, our national government was created under the Articles of Confederation, which created only a Continental Congress comprised of representatives from the 13 colonies. Before the Constitution was ratified, we didn't have an Executive Branch of government, so obviously we didn't have a President to lead that branch, nor an electoral college to elect someone to an office that didn't yet exist.
That being said, our very first President, George Washington, was elected President by a unanimous vote of the electoral college. And that is the method that has been employed ever since.
You're straining gnats trying to find support for your errant claim that this nation is a Democracy. You'll find no support because it never has been.
Check the dates of my prior post. It's straight from the constitution. You have your dates wrong.
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#61 Nov 15, 2012
Belin wrote:
<quoted text>
Check the dates of my prior post. It's straight from the constitution. You have your dates wrong.
Also, can't you tell I went back and read it yet again?
We are both going to disagree. I started this post because I think the electoral college needs to go and you don't, You have argued history with me, but that is not the point. We both know history and disagree on parts of it too. I'd like to get back to the point and hear what others feel about the electoral college verses the popular vote. All this history bickering is running others off. We will never agree, but at least we are both people who try to understand it. Time to stop now. I'll never convince you and you will never convince me. Neither of us are stupid!
Back to the reason I started this thread. How do others feel about the electoral college vs. the popular vote? I agree, Obama did win the popular vote, just not in this state. So our votes didn't matter because we don't have much representation in the electoral college. I believe in other presidential races our votes could count without the electoral college. If it weren't for the electoral college, Gore would have beat Bush. There's something to work with for both Democrats and Republicans. This is not a partisan question.
Rev Doright

Little Rock, AR

#62 Nov 15, 2012
You can't have a discussion with John Hancock aka Guest usa. Every night he wraps himself in the flag and get's into a bed with sheets made out of copies of the Constitution. He has man on blow up doll sex with a doll he calls Federalist Fanny. He has a degree from Diesel Driving Academy and the Electoral College mounted and framed on his wall. His mom keeps trying to get him to move out but he'll be elegible for Social Security in a few more years so he's holding out. Also, he touches himself when he thinks about the Constitution even though mom sometimes catches him!
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#63 Nov 15, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
You're wrong on both counts. The electoral college allows each state to have an equal voice in the election of President, along with the popular vote in each state.
It will take a Constitutional Amendment to change it. That is highly unlikely. Hell, we can't even get the Senate Democrats to support an Amendment to balance the budget when our trillion dollar annual deficits will destroy our nation in the next 5 years.
<quoted text>
Typical lame-assed response from an idiot who has no grasp of the issue at hand. You can't provide any intelligence so you resort to cowardly personal attacks.
Look dummy, just shut up, listen and learn. Leave the discussion to those of us who know what the hell we're talking about.
Why don't you put your name? You are doing in this post just what you are accusing someone else of. That makes you no better.
Belin

Jonesboro, AR

#64 Nov 15, 2012
Disenfranchised Voter wrote:
<quoted text>Aha! We meet again. Your definition of whining is when someone disagrees with you. The electoral college is outmoded and will soon be eliminated. That's scarey to think that then your vote will be just as important as mine, but life isn't guaranteed to be fair. Take your arrogant and pompous attitude and get you a scholarship to your beloved electoral college. Maybe you'll learn some humility.
Finally, someone else gets it. Thank you!
guest

United States

#66 Nov 15, 2012
Belin wrote:
Check the dates of my prior post. It's straight from the constitution. You have your dates wrong.
The electoral college was created by Article 2 Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution when it was ratified by the original 13 states in 1789.

What you posted was the 12th Amendment which altered Article 2 Section 1. That came 15 years later.

It is as I said. Before 1789, we did not have an executive branch of government, nor the office of President of the United States. Our first President was George Washington who was elected by the electoral college as set forth by Article 2 Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that our nation has never been a Democracy. We have always been a Republic. You keep arguing against the facts, and you keep losing the argument. Just accept reality.
guest

United States

#67 Nov 15, 2012
Belin wrote:
You have argued history with me, but that is not the point. We both know history and disagree on parts of it too.
Historical fact is not up for debate. You have claimed things that are simply not true, like our nation started out as a Democracy. You've also insinuated that prior to passage of the 12th Amendment, Presidents were elected by democratic vote. That's simply not true either. Facts are facts whether you want to acknowledge them or not.

Those of you who oppose the electoral college have no knowledge of its purpose. You've been indoctrinated in the government schools to believe Democracy is the best and only form of government. You don't have a clue about the reasons why our nation never has been a Democracy or why we don't directly elect the President.

You oppose that which you do not understand. The sad thing is, you refuse to listen to the truth because it conflicts with the bullshit you were fed for 12 years in the government controlled schools.

You know, there's a reason that government control of education is one of the ten foundational planks of Communism. Keep the people stupid and they're far easier to control.
Hootie

Little Rock, AR

#68 Nov 15, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Historical fact is not up for debate. You have claimed things that are simply not true, like our nation started out as a Democracy. You've also insinuated that prior to passage of the 12th Amendment, Presidents were elected by democratic vote. That's simply not true either. Facts are facts whether you want to acknowledge them or not.
Those of you who oppose the electoral college have no knowledge of its purpose. You've been indoctrinated in the government schools to believe Democracy is the best and only form of government. You don't have a clue about the reasons why our nation never has been a Democracy or why we don't directly elect the President.
You oppose that which you do not understand. The sad thing is, you refuse to listen to the truth because it conflicts with the bullshit you were fed for 12 years in the government controlled schools.
You know, there's a reason that government control of education is one of the ten foundational planks of Communism. Keep the people stupid and they're far easier to control.
Government controlled is a popular term with you. You want to argue semantics. I consider our form of government being a republic governed by a representative democracy. Oh, but wait, I've been indoctrinated by the evil government. I bet you're a raging tea-bagger aren't you? Most arrogant little know it all pricks filled with contempt and rage at their own irrelevence are tea-baggers. In fact, I think that's a requirement to be in the bagger movement.
Anonymous

Jonesboro, AR

#70 Nov 16, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Historical fact is not up for debate. You have claimed things that are simply not true, like our nation started out as a Democracy. You've also insinuated that prior to passage of the 12th Amendment, Presidents were elected by democratic vote. That's simply not true either. Facts are facts whether you want to acknowledge them or not.
Those of you who oppose the electoral college have no knowledge of its purpose. You've been indoctrinated in the government schools to believe Democracy is the best and only form of government. You don't have a clue about the reasons why our nation never has been a Democracy or why we don't directly elect the President.
You oppose that which you do not understand. The sad thing is, you refuse to listen to the truth because it conflicts with the bullshit you were fed for 12 years in the government controlled schools.
You know, there's a reason that government control of education is one of the ten foundational planks of Communism. Keep the people stupid and they're far easier to control.
You will see my post as BelinKS from now on, re-registered because of an idiot using my user name Belin and posting idiotic things.
Oh for goodness sake, in my past post I copy and pasted parts of the constitution and when they were ratified. Stop arguing for God's sake. Let the post go back to it's original intent. I'm not going to argue night after night with people who are signing in under different names and those that are just trying to fan the flame. As I said in a prior text, you are not going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you. Get off the
having to be right horse. Most of who argues with me is not stupid, neither am I. Agree to disagree. We're acting like our own congress, that's pretty bad! I started this thread to find out what many other people thought of the electoral college and stupidly let myself get drug into this non stop debate of which no one is going to go "oh, your right". Not going to happen. Let it go so the original thread can restart!
Now, what do other people think about the electoral college vs the popular vote?

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