Electoral college

[Belin]

I think the electoral college needs to be done away with! In a national election everyone's vote should count! Whoever the entire nation votes for should be the winner. Not the majority by state. The way it is done is not true democracy!

[GuestA]

Belin wrote:

I think the electoral college needs to be done away with! In a national election everyone's vote should count! Whoever the entire nation votes for should be the winner. Not the majority by state. The way it is done is not true democracy!

Agree.

[old friend]

Belin wrote:

I think the electoral college needs to be done away with! In a national election everyone's vote should count! Whoever the entire nation votes for should be the winner. Not the majority by state. The way it is done is not true democracy!

I agree vote vs vote.

[Guest]

The system works fine. There have only been 4 times in our nations history when a candidate won the popular vote but lost the election due to the ECV.

[Belin]

Waaaahhhh waaaaahhhhh
The person I voted for didn't win!
waaaahhhh waaaahhhh

[guest]

Belin wrote:

I think the electoral college needs to be done away with! In a national election everyone's vote should count! Whoever the entire nation votes for should be the winner. Not the majority by state. The way it is done is not true democracy!

But we don't live in a Democracy. The form of our government is a Republic.

The reason we have an electoral college is so that each state has an equal voice in selecting our President, along with the voice of the people.

It's the same reason we have a House of Representatives (voice of the people) and a Senate (voice of the states).

Originally, each Senator was selected by his state's Legislature and his purpose was to represent the interests of his state, which may not always be what the people wanted at any given moment. But alas, the voice of the state was destroyed with the passage of the 13th Amendment less that 100 years ago.

Back to the electoral college. Look, that's the way it has always been, and that's the way it will continue to be. It would take an Amendment to change it, and we can't even muster up enough interest in passing a balanced budget Amendment even though we ran off the financial cliff years ago.

If you want to live under a Democracy rather than a Republic, you're going to have to move to another country.

[guest]

Just because you don't understand the Electoral College doesn't mean it should be done away with.

[Belin]

Belin wrote:

Waaaahhhh waaaaahhhhh
The person I voted for didn't win!
waaaahhhh waaaahhhh

I made this statement before election results. This is not a democrat vs republican issue. It has gone both ways. Also not just about who I want for president. Whomever is president I pray for daily! I am talking about each American's vote to matter! The electoral college takes that away from every individual in our country! You don't even know who I support! It seems you are an Obama person, that is fine with me. What would you be feeling if it went the other way. Obama taking the popular vote and losing the electoral college. Your response would be much different. It happened to Gore. The only way for a presidential election to reflect the entire population is for each vote by each single individual to be counted! I'm not just talking about this election!

[Belin]

guest wrote:

Just because you don't understand the Electoral College doesn't mean it should be done away with.

I understand the electoral college perfectly! I am well educated. The electoral college just undermines the individual.

[Belin]

True American wrote:

Quit whining, President Obama won both electoral
and popular.

I'm not just referring to this election. Not too long ago Gore won the popular vote and lost the election. The electoral college takes away from the freedom of each individual in this country! I wrote that post before Obama's victory. Middle of the night thinking and posted it to get others view on the electoral college. Not on who would win. I believe each vote should be counted and totaled in the whole to determine who leads our country. The countries we are trying to help become democracies do not include an electoral college. You don't even know whether I wanted Obama or Romney. I was stating my view that the electoral college needs to be abolished. The popular vote vs the electoral college has helped both Democrats and Republicans get into office without the popular vote. What about the next Presidential race, don't you want your vote to count? Right now it only gives a tiny edge. How would you feel right now if Obama got the popular vote but not the electoral college? It's happened before to both sides, it will happen again.

[Belin]

guest wrote:

<quoted text>
But we don't live in a Democracy. The form of our government is a Republic.
The reason we have an electoral college is so that each state has an equal voice in selecting our President, along with the voice of the people.
It's the same reason we have a House of Representatives (voice of the people) and a Senate (voice of the states).
Originally, each Senator was selected by his
state's Legislature and his purpose was to
represent the interests of his state, which may not always be what the people wanted at any given moment. But alas, the voice of the state was destroyed with the passage of the 13th Amendment less that 100 years ago.
Back to the electoral college. Look, that's the way
it has always been, and that's the way it will continue to be. It would take an Amendment to change it, and we can't even muster up enough interest in passing a balanced budget Amendment even though we ran off the financial cliff years ago.

If you want to live under a Democracy rather than a Republic, you're going to have to move to another country.

Do you even know the difference? Our election system is supposed to be a democracy. Whether you say republic or democracy, it doesn't change the fact that every person's vote should count as a whole, not state by state. State by state is why we have congress. By the way, the Congo is a republic. Would you want to live there? Do a little more studying. By the way, I posted my view of the electoral college before any state had it's votes tallied.

[Belin]

Belin wrote:

Waaaahhhh waaaaahhhhh
The person I voted for didn't win!
waaaahhhh waaaahhhh

By the way, posting back using my name instead of your own or even guest is pretty childish! Don't you think?

[Belin]

GuestA wrote:

<quoted text>
Agree.

Thank you. Did you read some of the stupid remarks? Unbelievable!

[Belin]

old friend wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree vote vs vote.

Thank you! You are right! Vote vs vote!

[Belin]

Guest wrote:

The system works fine. There have only been 4 times in our nations history when a candidate won the popular vote but lost the election due to the ECV.

You just stated that the system doesn't work. Even if it were just 4 times(which I'm not sure is correct and will study to find the answer) means that the system didn't work. The election of the leader of what was once the greatest nation in the world should be infallible! Every citizen's vote should count! That's the only way that the President who is elected reflects the majority of our nation's people! Gore won the popular vote and lost his bid for the Presidency by the electoral college. Also, you will notice I said "our once great nation". Partisanship is really messing our country. These grown people we voted in can't even stop bickering and act like the adults we thought we voted in instead of children sticking their tongues out at each other. It's ridiculous. I was impressed by the way Romney and Obama behaved when Obama won. They both behaved admirably! To bad congress can't figure that out. Their so busy with their own agendas that they have forgotten that they were voted in and are supposed to be working for us, to make our nation better! We are paying them, which makes them our employees.

[guest]

Belin wrote:

Do you even know the difference? Our election system is supposed to be a democracy.

Of course I know the difference, but you obviously don't.

And no, our presidential elections are not supposed to be a democracy. They never have been.

Whether you say republic or democracy, it doesn't change the fact that every person's vote should count as a whole, not state by state.

That's your opinion, but it's not fact. Our system of choosing a President balances the popular vote of the people with the popular vote of the states. You see, in our system the states as well as the people have a say in who becomes President.

You obviously don't like the way our system has always been, and that's okay. But you're wrong to claim that people should have a power that they have never had in this country.

Do a little more studying.

I've been studying constitutional law for over 3 decades. I think I know quite a bit more about it than you do.

You can whine about our system here on topix, but it won't do a damn bit of good. A constitutional amendment is required in order to change our method of presidential elections.

If you want to change the Constitution, you've got a long road ahead. Why not get to work instead of whining on topix?

[Belin]

guest wrote:

<quoted text>
Of course I know the difference, but you obviously don't.
And no, our presidential elections are not supposed to be a democracy. They never have been.
<quoted text>
That's your opinion, but it's not fact. Our system of choosing a President balances the popular vote of the people with the popular vote of the states. You see, in our system the states as well as the people have a say in who becomes President.
You obviously don't like the way our system has always been, and that's okay. But you're wrong to claim that people should have a power that they have never had in this country.
<quoted text>
I've been studying constitutional law for over 3 decades. I think I know quite a bit more about it than you do.
You can whine about our system here on topix, but it won't do a damn bit of good. A constitutional amendment is required in order to change our method of presidential elections.
If you want to change the Constitution, you've got a long road ahead. Why not get to work instead of whining on topix?

If you were really a legal professional, you wouldn't be on topix. I do want to change how the presidential election has been done since the start of the electoral college. No, it wasn't always there. When our country gained independence from England, our president was not voted in by an electoral college. No, what state you live shouldn't matter, only your vote. Already working on amendments that can be made to make the election straight forward. It's not me whose working on that. It's members of congress on both sides.
I just love it when people lie to try to make themselves look like more than they are. You're a fraud!

[NationWide Voting System]

The Electoral College has pros & cons just like any system. It actually helps the smaller states because in a tight election, where their electoral votes could make the difference between winning and losing, these states will get visits from candidates and other influential people as well as possible promises for assitance to the state if elected. It is in some ways an antiquated system but the truly disgraceful part of the election process is the actual voting process itself.

There is no standard for voting and almost every state has different procedures, equipment, methods, and rules regarding elections. Some states use paper ballots while others use computerized voting machines and both have the potential for manipulation. Every year a certain portion of voters are disenfranchised when their vote is not counted for technical reasons, clerical mistakes, or purposeful manipulation by partisans. I think we need to adopt a nation-wide uniform system of voting with comprehensive voting laws to clarify elegibiltiy, voting system, standards, poll monitoring, etc..

Things like early voting, voting hours, absentee ballots, ballots of military & government employees out of the country, handicap accessibility to polling places, and other issues should be uniform so they are the same for each state. State, county, municipal, and other elections could be included as long as it was under the uniform laws and standards of the nation-wide program. This should also provide a means of voter identification that should be free and easily obtained for those without driver's licenses. All done in a manner that encourages people to vote rather than discouraging it.

This program should be administered through an existing federal agency but should be totally non-partisan with employees held to a high standard of neutrality. Many other countries that are much less affluent or advanced than the US have much more efficient and a lot less complicated. As a leader of the free world our election process should reflect the best voting system rather than the inefficient and confusing system we have. Yes, it would be expensive to institute but it would help guarantee everybody's vote was counted and eliminate many of thousands of law suits and legal contest that accompany every election season. It would obviously be opposed by states with historical and traditional voting systems but I think the end result would be worth the sentimental and financial cost. I would welcome other opinions on this concept.

[Guest]

The electoral college helps to protect the small states from a tyranny of the large states. It was part of the "Great Compromise" in Constitutional debates that allowed the union to form. "Flyover country" would never allow the electoral college to disappear.

Consider another aspect of the Great Compromise - our bicameral legislature includes a Senate in which small states have an equal vote to the largest states. Would you dispose of that legislative body as well?

We have a representative republic of 50 states, not a pure democracy.
Without the Electoral College, the states of California, New York, Texas, and Florida would govern the nation, because they are the most populous states. Is that what you really want?

[Belin]

Guest wrote:

The electoral college helps to protect the small states from a tyranny of the large states. It was part of the "Great Compromise" in Constitutional debates that allowed the union to form. "Flyover country" would never allow the electoral college to disappear.
Consider another aspect of the Great Compromise - our bicameral legislature includes a Senate in which small states have an equal vote to the largest states. Would you dispose of that legislative body as well?
We have a representative republic of 50 states, not a pure democracy.
Without the Electoral College, the states of California, New York, Texas, and Florida would govern the nation, because they are the most populous states. Is that what you really want?

What I want is each individual vote to count no matter what state they live in. One person, one vote. Each vote counted individually and whoever gets the most votes wins. It's simple, easy to understand and the only way it is completely fair! I do notice the states you put up there as the most populous are half blue half red as it stands. Each vote counting doesn't mean any individual state would run the US. It means that whoever gets the most votes win. There is enough population through the heart of the country's states to overcome what you think would happen. Just a straight fair vote.