Arkansas House passes bill to allow guns in churches

[guest]

The Arkansas House of Representatives approved a bill on Monday to allow concealed-carry permit holders to take their weapons into churches, and it is expected to be signed into law by the state's governor.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/arkansas-house-passe...

Why do you need a gun in church?

Doesn't our legislature have more pressing matters to concern themselves with?

[guest]

GUEST wrote:

<quoted text>They don't. I own guns I use to hunt with. I don't have the need to have one on me everywhere I go.

And nobody's gonna make you carry, but it should be the individuals decision.

[Punisher]

guest wrote:

The Arkansas House of Representatives approved a bill on Monday to allow concealed-carry permit holders to take their weapons into churches, and it is expected to be signed into law by the state's governor.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/arkansas-house-passe...
Why do you need a gun in church?
Doesn't our legislature have more pressing matters to concern themselves with?

I don't know, why don't you ask some of those people that have been murdered in church the last few years.

[the real guest]

guest wrote:

Why do you need a gun in church?

February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14- year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.

March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church, and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed himself, but survived, when his gun jams.

July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire in a church during a youth performance, killing two people and injuring seven.

Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a guard.

May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one
police officer.

Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.

May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell,
25, was the shooter.

Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend,
later killed himself.

April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once worked as a security guard.

continued....

[the real guest]

continued...

March 12, 2005 - Brookfield, Wisconsin - Living Church of God - 7 killed + shooter - Terry Ratzmann opened fire on the congregation, killing seven and wounding four before
taking his own life.

July 30, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - World Changers Church International - shooter killed - Air Force Staff Sgt. John Givens was shot five times by a police officer after charging the officer, following violent behavior.

Dec. 17, 2004, Garden Grove, Calif.: A veteran musician at the Crystal Cathedral shoots himself to death after a nine -hour standoff.

Oct. 5, 2003 - Atlanta, Georgia - Turner Monumental AME Church - 2 killed + shooter - Shelia Wilson walked into the church while preparations are being made for service and shot the pastor, her mother and then herself.

June 10, 2002 - Conception, Missouri - Benedictine monastery - 2 killed + shooter - Lloyd Robert Jeffress shot four monks in the monastery killing two and wounding two, before killing himself.

March 12, 2002 - Lynbrook, New York - Our Lady of Peace Catholic Church - 2 killed - Peter Troy, a former mental patient, opens fire during Mass, killing the priest and a parishioner. He later receives a life sentence.

May 18, 2001 - Hopkinsville, Kentucky - Greater Oak Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed - Frederick Radford stood up in the middle of a revival service and began shooting at his estranged wife, Nicole Radford, killing her and a woman trying to help her.

Sept. 15, 1999 - Fort Worth, Texas - Wedgewood Baptist Church - 7 killed + shooter - Larry Gene Ashbrook shot dead seven people and injured a further seven at a concert by Christian rock group Forty Days in Fort Worth, Texas before killing himself.

April 15, 1999 - Salt Lake City, Utah - LDS Church Family History Library - 2 killed + shooter - Sergei Babarin, 70, with a history of mental illness, entered the library, killed two people and wounded four others before he was gunned down by police.

[guest]

Well I guess that answers that!

[Post Turtle]

guest wrote:

The Arkansas House of Representatives approved a bill on Monday to allow concealed-carry permit holders to take their weapons into churches, and it is expected to be signed into law by the state's governor.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/arkansas-house-passe...
Why do you need a gun in church?
Doesn't our legislature have more pressing matters to concern themselves with?

It's like what the NRAs V.P. said, It takes a good guy with a gun to put down a bad guy with a gun.
Not hard to understand at all. Not even for that most liberal of gun grabber.

[guest]

the real guest wrote:

<quoted text>
February 14, 2010 - Richmond, California - Three hooded men walk into Gethsemane Church of God in Christ and opened fire and then fled the scene, as the singing of the choir was replaced by frightened screams. The two victims, a 14- year-old boy and a 19-year-old man, were hospitalized.
March 8, 2009 - Maryville, Illinois - Suspect Terry Joe Sedlacek, 27, of Troy, walks into the First Baptist Church, and shoots pastor Fred Winters dead, point blank. Several church members are injured by a knife in the struggle to capture after the attack, The suspect also had stabbed himself, but survived, when his gun jams.
July 27, 2008 - Knoxville, Tennessee - A gunman opens fire in a church during a youth performance, killing two people and injuring seven.
Dec. 9, 2007 - Colorado - Three people are killed and five wounded in two shooting rampages, one at a missionary school in suburban Denver and one at a church in Colorado Springs. The gunman in the second incident is killed by a guard.
May 20, 2007 - Moscow, Idaho - A standoff between police and a suspect in the shootings of three people in a Presbyterian Church ended with three dead, including one
police officer.
Aug. 12, 2007 - Neosho, Missouri - First Congregational Church - 3 killed - Eiken Elam Saimon shot and killed the pastor and two deacons and wounded five others.
May 21, 2006 - Baton Rouge, Louisiana - The Ministry of Jesus Christ Church - 4 killed - The four at the church who were shot were members of Erica Bell's family; she was abducted and murdered elsewhere; Bell's mother, church pastor Claudia Brown, was seriously wounded - Anthony Bell,
25, was the shooter.
Feb. 26, 2006 - Detroit, Michigan - Zion Hope Missionary Baptist Church - 2 killed + shooter - Kevin L. Collins, who reportedly went to the church looking for his girlfriend,
later killed himself.
April 9, 2005 - College Park, Georgia - A 27-year-old airman died after being shot at a church, where he had once worked as a security guard.
continued....

Such examples usually prove to be false. But even if true, none of them occurred in Arkansas.

[the real guest]

guest wrote:

Such examples usually prove to be false. But even if true, none of them occurred in Arkansas.

The list I posted were all violent acts that actually occurred, every single one of them. Google it.

May 2009, Jonesboro, AR
A church secretary was nearly stabbed to death at St. Paul's United Methodist Church.

http://www.kait8.com/story/13208579/church-st...

Is that close enough to home for ya?

[Boss]

guest wrote:

<quoted text>
Such examples usually prove to be false. But even if true, none of them occurred in Arkansas.

If this were a stupid comment contest you would win for your's.

Just because it hasn't happened in Arkansas doesn't mean it won't happen....Duh!

And as far as the examples of church shootings google them idiot.

[Punisher]

None of them occurred in Arkansas, so wait until it does to worry about it. Is that the same rationale behind passing new knee jerk gun legislation? That's about the dumbest argument ever, if none of them had occurred in the US you'd have a point, but Jonesboro has had one of the most deadly school shootings already, so you can't argue that we are somehow impervious to random deadly violence.

[a new real guest]

the real guest wrote:

<quoted text>
The list I posted were all violent acts that actually occurred, every single one of them. Google it.
May 2009, Jonesboro, AR
A church secretary was nearly stabbed to death at St. Paul's United Methodist Church.
http://www.kait8.com/story/13208579/church-st...
Is that close enough to home for ya?

The Jonesboro poster is all for banning all guns and the removal of the second admendment.

[Mad Max]

We've carried guns in our church for years.

[guest]

the real guest wrote:

<quoted text>
The list I posted were all violent acts that actually occurred, every single one of them. Google it.
May 2009, Jonesboro, AR
A church secretary was nearly stabbed to death at St. Paul's United Methodist Church.
http://www.kait8.com/story/13208579/church-st...
Is that close enough to home for ya?

That is clearly a close case that is real. But it is also a where a gun would not have saved the victim unless perhaps she was wearing it in a holster gunfighter style. Owning a gun isn't the same thing as being trained in how to use one.

[guest]

a new real guest wrote:

<quoted text> The Jonesboro poster is all for banning all guns and the removal of the second admendment.

I'm the OP and you are absolutely wrong. Sensible gun control is the goal. Like preventing sawed off shotguns which has been around for a wile. I like the idea of trigger locks and background checks, Also, banning assault riffles and high capacity mags. I grew up in Arkansas with hunting. I don't own a gun but I know plenty of people that do and I have no problem with that. Demagoguery like you're spouting is a disservice to everyone.

[Punisher]

guest wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm the OP and you are absolutely wrong. Sensible gun control is the goal. Like preventing sawed off shotguns which has been around for a wile. I like the idea of trigger locks and background checks, Also, banning assault riffles and high capacity mags. I grew up in Arkansas with hunting. I don't own a gun but I know plenty of people that do and I have no problem with that. Demagoguery like you're spouting is a disservice to everyone.

Well since the rifles you want to ban are the most popular guns in the country, and since Harry Reid doesn't have the balls, you aren't going to get a ban. A magazine is easy to make, even easier to convert a restricted capacity mag back to a high cap, and since the military uses the same mags in their m16, I'm sure you won't get that either. Sorry your party has betrayed you. Maybe you should get on Pryor about not replacing Reid for this term.

[Punisher]

guest wrote:

<quoted text>
That is clearly a close case that is real. But it is also a where a gun would not have saved the victim unless perhaps she was wearing it in a holster gunfighter style. Owning a gun isn't the same thing as being trained in how to use one.

It's interesting that you know that the gun wouldn't have saved her. I can get to mine in about 3 seconds, and anytime a bum asks me for money, my hands automatically goes to it, like a Pavlovian reaction.

[guest]

Punisher wrote:

<quoted text>
It's interesting that you know that the gun wouldn't have saved her. I can get to mine in about 3 seconds, and anytime a bum asks me for money, my hands automatically goes to it, like a Pavlovian reaction.

She wasn't murdered. Are you a church secretary? I just don't see church staff and clergy interacting with their congregation or the public prepared to blow them away.

[gUeSt]

It will help when those "peaceful" Muslims try to convert you.

[Punisher]

guest wrote:

<quoted text>
She wasn't murdered. Are you a church secretary? I just don't see church staff and clergy interacting with their congregation or the public prepared to blow them away.

Oh no just stabbed. No way that could kill her. You'd be surprised, I had a minister with a chcl that made concealable holsters for paritioners.