Newtown and violence prevention...a g...

Newtown and violence prevention...a grassroots discussion

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JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#1 Dec 18, 2012
Newtown and violence prevention...a grassroots discussion

I want to start this forum to intelligently and rationally discuss the recent tragedy in Newtown. Topics to be discussed include the 2nd Amendment and its interpretation, gun rights, gun control and mental health issues though if this goes as planned we'll see that this discussion will by no means be limited to these topics. At the same time, I don't want to get too far afield.

I'll be the moderator and all views are welcome. As an example, I don't care if you favor access to guns completely unfettered by the federal government or strict gun control. I don't care if you're a Republican or Democrat... but if you've never read the 2nd Amendment or can barely read or think that these issues can't be discussed without resorting to name calling...if you can barely compose a sentence, then you can bounce and go argue with Cathouse Mouse.
JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#3 Dec 18, 2012
This is also an experiment of sorts. I'm not completely sure that it's possible to have a substantive discussion of a topic on this forum.
I would welcome opinions on this question as well.

I don't think that anonymity is always a problem...in fact I think that for issues like this anonymity is a plus because people can say what they really think without fear of retribution by employers etc...

I think that it's downright evil to defame an individual in our community or elsewhere though using this cloak of anonymity. Cowardly.
Opinion

Jonesboro, AR

#4 Dec 18, 2012
Just my opinion, the right to bear arms and people possessing guns has little to do with the violence in this country. The criminals have always had and will continue to have guns, assault weapons, etc. and have never purchased them legally. This country has become violent, without regard for themselves or other people, and uncaring. The mentally ill are medicated beyond belief and turned loose in society to later "flip out" and cause some tragic event. It appears that many of the mass killings are committed by someone later to be found to have mental issues. People were aware that they had issues, but simply dismissed them. The mentally ill are certainly not being cared for correctly. It is also possible that we are creating our own volatile population by medicating our children to make them sit still, no gym class daily, and limited exposure to outdoor recess for activity. The later effects of medicating a child with such strong mind altering medication is probably creating a very volatile, unstable young person. Instead of constantly focusing on the weapons being used in these tragic events, Obama and the lawmakers should be focusing on the people that are committing these unthinkable acts.

Those on TV are screaming gun control, no guns, etc. Are their body guards and security going to get rid of their guns too? Of course not, because it is a point of defense.

Just my opinion!
JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#5 Dec 18, 2012
Guest wrote:
As long as Satan's christians continue preaching the Gospel of Unbridled greed and lust, aka gospel of prosperity, human life will never have any value in Satan's christian nation. The devil first preached this christian gospel to Jesus, telling him if He will just bow down and worship him once, He could have all the material things the devil has to give. And thus, the foundation of Satan's christianity was made. And through Satan's GOD hating christianity, instant gratification swept the entire country. And instant gratification is THE motive behind all these shootings at Satan's Public schools. The shooting at Westside was done by christian children.
and btw....there is NO 2nd amendment in America. THose who hate America adn our Constitution spread that Nazi hate speech about amendments. The Bill of Rights is 10 Articles and the word amendment is NOT even in the Bill of Rights at all. So you are hallucinating and seeing things that are not there. OR as we commonly call that......the severe mental illness called christianity.
And just like at Westside, the town or Newtown wants to change everything BUT themselves. Evil did not visit them. Evil has possessed them ALL since birth, says ever bible on the planet.
There may be some take away message here and when I have the time I'll try and find it. I'll respect ideas on this post that are reasonable and coherent but these ideas just aren't. So please don't on this thread.
Wondering

Oklahoma City, OK

#6 Dec 18, 2012
Guest wrote:
As long as Satan's christians continue preaching the Gospel of Unbridled greed and lust, aka gospel of prosperity, human life will never have any value in Satan's christian nation. The devil first preached this christian gospel to Jesus, telling him if He will just bow down and worship him once, He could have all the material things the devil has to give. And thus, the foundation of Satan's christianity was made. And through Satan's GOD hating christianity, instant gratification swept the entire country. And instant gratification is THE motive behind all these shootings at Satan's Public schools. The shooting at Westside was done by christian children.
and btw....there is NO 2nd amendment in America. THose who hate America adn our Constitution spread that Nazi hate speech about amendments. The Bill of Rights is 10 Articles and the word amendment is NOT even in the Bill of Rights at all. So you are hallucinating and seeing things that are not there. OR as we commonly call that......the severe mental illness called christianity.
And just like at Westside, the town or Newtown wants to change everything BUT themselves. Evil did not visit them. Evil has possessed them ALL since birth, says ever bible on the planet.
Terry, do you know how to get ahold of your dad Fred Phelps?

Cathouse Mouse

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#8 Dec 18, 2012
JonSnow wrote:
Newtown and violence prevention...a grassroots discussion
I want to start this forum to intelligently and rationally discuss the recent tragedy in Newtown. Topics to be discussed include the 2nd Amendment and its interpretation, gun rights, gun control and mental health issues though if this goes as planned we'll see that this discussion will by no means be limited to these topics. At the same time, I don't want to get too far afield.
I'll be the moderator and all views are welcome. As an example, I don't care if you favor access to guns completely unfettered by the federal government or strict gun control. I don't care if you're a Republican or Democrat... but if you've never read the 2nd Amendment or can barely read or think that these issues can't be discussed without resorting to name calling...if you can barely compose a sentence, then you can bounce and go argue with Cathouse Mouse.
If you've read any of the arguments directed at me, you'll agree that the gun lovers propose buying more guns, and arming teachers.

I disagree.

How about you?
Blaming

Blytheville, AR

#9 Dec 18, 2012
Guns have been a part of our society since its creation. As our society evolves, so do our guns and other weapons. Cliche sayins about guns don't kill people, people do etc..carry some truth, but do we really need assault weapons? In some circumstances, I believe we do. If the person attacking me has an AR-15, then I want a weapon just as efficient and fast firing as his. I would refuse to battle an assault rifle with my 12 guage, in most instances, while reloading is when you are overtaken and killed. The problem with society isn't the guns, as we all know you don't need guns to kill mass amounts of people. The problem doesn't lie with the lack of "GOD" being in our schools either, simply put if he existed he would be there anyway.
The problem in my opinion lays in several areas. Our children are desinsitized. From prescription drugs to make them not feel their emotions, over prescribed by doctors to help unwilling parents deal with their children. A drugged child is an unstable child, prescripton or not. Secondly, the media. They want to shelter the children, yet for 48 hours on almost every channel, they have been force feeding the trauma from CT into the faces of these very children they claim society needs to shelter. Try and shelter your child today from the tragedy until you feel they are ready to hear it, you can't. Every channel has a special vigil, a special news coverage of the funeral, a detailed description of who died, how they died and what their likes and dislikes were. Turn off the tv, and its all over the radio, and of course the computer screen. Its a constant barage. How much of the pain do you want these children to feel? Wasn't the shock of it all enough the first time they heard about it? News is good, but like guns, do we really need a fully automatic news feed constantly shoving their agenda down our throats?
Blame..nobody wants to blame the actual person who done this. We want to blame society, TV, Guns, video games, the movies, the lack of God in school, anything, anybody..but the actual person who pulled the damn trigger.
Blaming

Blytheville, AR

#10 Dec 18, 2012
Opinion wrote:
Just my opinion, the right to bear arms and people possessing guns has little to do with the violence in this country. The criminals have always had and will continue to have guns, assault weapons, etc. and have never purchased them legally. This country has become violent, without regard for themselves or other people, and uncaring. The mentally ill are medicated beyond belief and turned loose in society to later "flip out" and cause some tragic event. It appears that many of the mass killings are committed by someone later to be found to have mental issues. People were aware that they had issues, but simply dismissed them. The mentally ill are certainly not being cared for correctly. It is also possible that we are creating our own volatile population by medicating our children to make them sit still, no gym class daily, and limited exposure to outdoor recess for activity. The later effects of medicating a child with such strong mind altering medication is probably creating a very volatile, unstable young person. Instead of constantly focusing on the weapons being used in these tragic events, Obama and the lawmakers should be focusing on the people that are committing these unthinkable acts.
Those on TV are screaming gun control, no guns, etc. Are their body guards and security going to get rid of their guns too? Of course not, because it is a point of defense.
Just my opinion!
I agree with you 100%, sorry to have vented on some of the same areas you did, but I am so confused by this society that claims we are above every other society, yet can't seem to solve a single problem within itself.
Blaming

Blytheville, AR

#12 Dec 18, 2012
Apparently you didn't understand anything I posted, you'd rather go on about your own personal vendetta against christianity and corporations, well..by all means rant on..but it still doesnt give society, demons or the Christian God, your version of God, or anyone elses any power to make a maniac pull the trigger, only that maniac has that power. Maybe thats the core of the problem, people giving to much power to unseen forces and not accepting responsibilty for their own actions
Blaming

Blytheville, AR

#14 Dec 18, 2012
so apparently no soul on earth has ever known God..since everyone dies. Your logic is that of a 12 year old child. Am I to assume that you know God? Therefore the bullets would have missed you?
Guest

Jonesboro, AR

#15 Dec 18, 2012
Guest wrote:
<quoted text>You are so totally ignorant, Powerless and helpless. IF...and the key word is IF.....IF there had been ONE person at Newtown Sandy Hook school that had known GOD, that ONE person could have and would have stopped the shooter without ever even touching them. But none of them knew GOD. Evil did not "visit" them. Evil controls them all. And also controls your helpless, Powerless dead soul. But you shall receive Power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. But you and this entire christian nation has rejected GOD for decades. And without GOD, all you have is evil continuously....just as it is in this GOD hating christian nation.
I don't have a vendaetta against Satan's christianity. I just know that Satan's christianity isn't mentioned in the bible and is devoid of GOD and His Spirit. And because of that, there is no Truth in you or this demonic christian nation. And your demons are denying they exist. Demons are behind 99% of all problems. I could never care if you believe this absolute Truth or not. It will still be true AFTER you spew all your ignorance about it on Topix too !
There is no way those children ages 5-10 were ungodly and that someone could have stopped the insane person that committed that act. This talk is complete utter nonsense and very far from the truth, but very close to problematic.
Wondering

Oklahoma City, OK

#17 Dec 18, 2012
Guest wrote:
<quoted text>You are clear proof of why these events continue to happen. Parents don't receive the Holy Spirit and neither do their children. So they have no protection from GOD. And the bible says GOD will visit the sins of the parents upon their children. But as you and all christians prove Publicly, none of you believe GOD.
I predicted that these mass murders would begin in this country in the mid 80's, and would increase in frequency and severity as christianity continues to lead this nation away from GOD. Where GOD is, miracles happen continuously.
Eliminate GOD, and the solution is hold the gun owners as accomplice to any crimes comitted with their guns. Holding people responsible is the only way, without GOD.
Terry, I asked a question. Can you get me in touch with your dad Fred? Fred Phelps... Why don't you move to Topeka? They probably will need more followers soon.
The light and truth

Blytheville, AR

#18 Dec 18, 2012
Ahh the sins of the parents..explains a lot in your life Terry. Apparently yours were not very holy either..they didnt seem to have the ol dodge the bullet trick down themselves..think that Jedi magic trick at least slowed it down enough to where they could see it coming?
JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#19 Dec 18, 2012
Guest wrote:
As long as Satan's christians continue preaching the Gospel of Unbridled greed and lust, aka gospel of prosperity, human life will never have any value in Satan's christian nation. The devil first preached this christian gospel to Jesus, telling him if He will just bow down and worship him once, He could have all the material things the devil has to give. And thus, the foundation of Satan's christianity was made. And through Satan's GOD hating christianity, instant gratification swept the entire country. And instant gratification is THE motive behind all these shootings at Satan's Public schools. The shooting at Westside was done by christian children.
and btw....there is NO 2nd amendment in America. THose who hate America adn our Constitution spread that Nazi hate speech about amendments. The Bill of Rights is 10 Articles and the word amendment is NOT even in the Bill of Rights at all. So you are hallucinating and seeing things that are not there. OR as we commonly call that......the severe mental illness called christianity.
And just like at Westside, the town or Newtown wants to change everything BUT themselves. Evil did not visit them. Evil has possessed them ALL since birth, says ever bible on the planet.
Wow. OK so I get an unexpected curve ball here right off the bat. Despite what I said earlier I'm glad you came and I'll get to why later.

I understand and agree that there are preachers...especially on TV...that preach a gospel of prosperity. Name it and claim it! Give me your 10% tithe (and more is even better) and God will give you more riches than you could imagine. Well...right here in Jonesboro, AR there is a pastor named Archie Mason that will tell you that tithing is an act of obedience to God's command and in return for obedience to God you can claim a life more abundant. But not necessarily of earthly riches but of love, peace and joy. And I would say that he preaches almost weekly on the sin of adultery. And the Southern Baptist Churches that I have attended preach the same message. Stop getting all of your preaching from the boob tube, read your bible and attend a local church.

Instant gratification. Yes that's a problem. We go on diets on Monday hoping we'll be fit and trim by Wednesday (at the latest) and we think the road to riches is paved with luck instead of hard work. I don't see the correlation between a need for instant gratification and killing 20 precious children in cold blood.

As for the Bill of Rights, commonly called Amendments I-X...there actually is such a thing and their interpretation has been hotly contested to the present day. As I think I recall (someone give me a history lesson here but I can otherwise look it up), the states wouldn't ratify the Constitution and join the union until the Bill of Rights was added.

On your last point. It seems to me that you're telling me that the parents and children of Newtown deserved this because they're evil.

So this is why I'm glad you came because this is exactly what I would expect to hear if I was reading a manifesto from Adam Lanza, James Holmes, Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Andrew Golden, Mitchell Johnson and Seung-Hui Cho after what the rest of us call "a heart breaking and senseless tragedy." But to you and them it all makes perfect sense.
JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#20 Dec 18, 2012
Guest wrote:
<quoted text>In other words, you are untainted by reality and want to remain the christian bigot that you are. You don't want to hear anything you don't already know, so that these things can continue happening. Clear proof you are an insane christian devil with no morals and not one shred of Truth in you. and btw....I'll post on this thread as much as I choose, christian devil. You don't own Topix, arrogant christian bigot. And your Satanic christianity is NOT even mentioned in the bible. And you lunatics don't believe in consequences or being responsible for anything. So that's why you are clueless about anything that happens in this country. You reap what you sow. ANd that's what happened to Satan's christians in Newtown, CT ! Nothing CAN change that. It's already done, and all you can do is wait for the next one, and the next one and the next one, etc etc etc....because you christian devils NEVER repent. So you continue to repeat your christian school massacres !
Alright...write all you want but this is the LAST time that I will reply to you on this thread, cause as momma taught me...you can't argue with crazy.

You're right, I don't own Topix but I want to have a relevant, substantive discussion on this tragedy and what might be done to prevent more...at the very least in our schools so that we can protect our beloved children.

And your presence here is why I question if this can be done using Topix. Because everyone else is going to have to wade through your mountain of crap before they can reach the summit of sanity!!

Just because I'm not willing to listen to you it doesn't mean that I'm not willing to tolerate a very wide range of opinions from people on the wide right and wide left sides of this topic!

And here's where I'd like to voice one of my opinions. The main reason why psychiatry and the mental health professions will be unable to stop these massacres is because these killers live in their own black hole. They think that everyone else is the problem and will be resistant to seeking treatment.

You demonstrate another point...I read today that Ted Nugent said that it was insanity to "punish" a large population of people (gun owners and particularly those with assault rifles) for the acts of .00000001% of the population.

To me, that's like saying that we should not have done anything about the 9/11 bombings in New York because of the acts of a handful of fanatic Muslims.

Bear with me, I'm not vilifying gun owners even though it looks like it.

Of course, there was an army of Islamic fundamentalists that we had to deal with before they came for us!

Same thing here...there is an Army of mentally ill people out there that will come and keep coming until we take steps to stop this. And "Guest", you sound like a Sargent in the Army of Insanity!!

So...I'm glad to see you here because you helped illustrate a couple of points for me! Thank You.

Now, I'd be even happier to see you leave. Go start your own post called "The Satan Christian and why they all deserve Die."

And I hope not to see you again unless it's in church...unarmed.
JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#23 Dec 18, 2012
I wanted to qualify my statements by saying that I'm not a member of Central Baptist Church and that although Dr. Mason would, I'm sure, agree that he opposes adultery and doesn't preach a "gospel of prosperity" he may not agree with another thing I say. And I would imagine that he would have been more loving towards "guest."
JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#24 Dec 18, 2012
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
<quoted text>
If you've read any of the arguments directed at me, you'll agree that the gun lovers propose buying more guns, and arming teachers.
I disagree.
How about you?
Well...I can tell you what I think is coming. In order to minimize casualties in these situations two things have to happen. 1. The shooter can't be able to inflict massive amounts of damage in a very brief period of time. And that's going to mean that the Feds are going to do everything they can to get assault rifles and high capacity clips off the shelf. You can argue that these nutbags can get the weapons on the black market, but at least they'll have to risk arrest and the seller will have to risk arrest to make the transaction. Of course, also...they'll still be able to get these weapons from good old mom and dad or aunt/uncle, grandparents...whatever...who were kind enough to leave their devastatingly damaging weapon propped up in the corner or wherever because they're sure they'll need it at a moment's notice. You know, because a horde of banditos from a Mexican drug cartel is sure to bust through their door any moment, armed to the teeth with automatic weapons. Or, they'll be needed go overthrow the tyrannical government any day...ya know...King Obama who plans to dissolve the legislature any day now. And by the way (and I'm being serious now), ain't know way in the Feds or state are going after weapons currently in people's possession. So...it's going to take a long time for these weapons to go away. But they will because I think that the majority of Americans believe that the safety of their children is more important than a perceived gun owner's right to own a gun like used to kill these children. Personally, while I do believe that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear firearms, I think that the Feds also bear a responsibility to protect the public's interest. And I think the public will decide that some of these weapons and high capacity clips need to go. And of course you know how this works...the public elects the president who appoints the Supreme Court Justices who make decisions on these laws.
2. We need a VERY fast first response. And this will likely mean putting armed policemen in all of our public schools. Arming teachers? I doubt it but who knows. It sounds like the one saving grace in this CT shooting was that the police were there quite quickly..quick enough that he decided to take his own life before he could go through all of his ammo. I think that saved a lot of lives
JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#25 Dec 18, 2012
When I'm hating on the mentally ill in one of my previous posts I'm definitely talking about a very particular type of sickness...the type that leads people to justify committing these terrible acts of violence. I don't mean to otherwise vilify or stigmatize people with mental illness such as depression, bipolar disorder etc...
JonSnow

Oklahoma City, OK

#26 Dec 18, 2012
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Terry, do you know how to get ahold of your dad Fred Phelps?
Sort of a morbid curiosity, but do you know this guy? His rather unique world view must make his posts pretty easy to spot.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#27 Dec 18, 2012
JonSnow wrote:
<quoted text>
Sort of a morbid curiosity, but do you know this guy? His rather unique world view must make his posts pretty easy to spot.
You cannot talk to him, you cannot reason with him. He is 3 gallons of crazy in a 2 gallon bucket...and if brains were leather, with him you wouldn't end up with enough to saddle a June bug.
That's the truth of the matter right there. You will accomplish far more by simply ignoring him.
As for gun control, I do believe in the safeguards in place, no one wants to knowingly place a weapon of any kind in the hands of a criminal or mentally ill person. However, disarming Americans is not the answer. The criminals do not go through those channels to get their guns. A reasonable, rational person is going to look at that fact and realize the criminal element and whackos will still have them. Your everyday, law abiding citizens all become targets. I don't like those odds or any way that scenario plays out, personally.
I spend a lot of time alone, my husband travels frequently with his job. I take a lot of comfort in the knowledge that if someone tries to break into my home (and makes it through the big bad dogs and the alarm system) that I have a means to protect myself. The constitution grants me the right to do so, and the government and bleeding hearts should not be so deluded as to think that disarming the law abiding citizens in this country would make the senseless violence stop.
You want to ban something? Ban the violent video games that desensitize people (young people) to violence. There are too many people these days who don't teach their children right from wrong. And unfortunately, our judicial system is becoming a joke. There are no real consequences anymore.
I will get off the soapbox now. I apologize for the rant, and will try to do better in the future. Unless I'm simply antagonizing chm or lbt...then all bets are off.

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