Gun Control Relativity
guest

Jonesboro, AR

#558 Feb 1, 2013
so you have your back ground check at the gun show. and you want a waiting peroid,what if the seller lives four hours away...what now?
guest

United States

#559 Feb 1, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
<quoted text>
It actually would help cut down on the number of stolen guns sold to honest citizens, would help make sure you're not getting a gun used in a crime, and gives the seller a degree of insulation from potential liability. Unless they repeal the 2nd Amendment it doesn't matter if it's registered and they're not going to repeal the 2nd Am.
Throughout history, registration has been a prerequisite to confiscation. I'm against private sale background checks.
Fo Show

Mayflower, AR

#560 Feb 1, 2013
I actually talked about the gun show issue with a friend who also thinks the background check would be a good idea but also wants to be able to buy a gun at a show if he found one he really liked. I think any legislation that authorized background checks should include a provision to pre-qualify people so they would be eligible to purchase guns at gun shows.

In answer to the 2nd poster's comments, do you actually have specific examples of registration being used in confiscation? There may be examples of this; I've just never really looked into it and thought you might have. We have over 350 million guns in private hands in this country and trying to take up this many guns would be a practical & logistical nightmare if everybody was an eager participant. You're talking about something that would have to undergo years of court challenges and the the collection of 350 million firearms, half of which would be reported stolen the minute confiscation became a possibility.

The alternative would be if some kind of presidential coup took place and somebody or some group were somehow able to seize control of the US government. This would also have to include the use of military personnnel to implement. As I've said before, the US military is made up of young men and women who come from homes across this country. They aren't going to turn against their own flesh and blood, teachers, doctors, neighbors. Ain't gonna happen! The dynamics of our country are different that any ther country on earth and I can't imagine a scenario where they would defy their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and unite behind an illegal dictator or junta.

Cathouse Mouse

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#561 Feb 1, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
I actually talked about the gun show issue with a friend who also thinks the background check would be a good idea but also wants to be able to buy a gun at a show if he found one he really liked. I think any legislation that authorized background checks should include a provision to pre-qualify people so they would be eligible to purchase guns at gun shows.
In answer to the 2nd poster's comments, do you actually have specific examples of registration being used in confiscation? There may be examples of this; I've just never really looked into it and thought you might have. We have over 350 million guns in private hands in this country and trying to take up this many guns would be a practical & logistical nightmare if everybody was an eager participant. You're talking about something that would have to undergo years of court challenges and the the collection of 350 million firearms, half of which would be reported stolen the minute confiscation became a possibility.
The alternative would be if some kind of presidential coup took place and somebody or some group were somehow able to seize control of the US government. This would also have to include the use of military personnnel to implement. As I've said before, the US military is made up of young men and women who come from homes across this country. They aren't going to turn against their own flesh and blood, teachers, doctors, neighbors. Ain't gonna happen! The dynamics of our country are different that any ther country on earth and I can't imagine a scenario where they would defy their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution and unite behind an illegal dictator or junta.
I beleive that a lot of the "concerns" those people claim to have about flaws in the background check system could easily be solved with a little better cooperation than that of a kicking child being forced to take the yucky medicine.

This could easily all boil down to the simple act of gun owners having carry another card in their wallet with their concealled weapons permit.

I really don't know what all the fuss is about. Gun addicts who simply file for their background check card shouldn't have any problem buying guns anywhere he finds a good deal on one.

B

U

T

... here's the yucky part of the medicine. It could come to pass that your background check will require renewal every year - or few years. I could accept a 4 year timespan like most driver's license renewal programs.

Punisher

Jonesboro, AR

#562 Feb 1, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
<quoted text>
It actually would help cut down on the number of stolen guns sold to honest citizens, would help make sure you're not getting a gun used in a crime, and gives the seller a degree of insulation from potential liability. Unless they repeal the 2nd Amendment it doesn't matter if it's registered and they're not going to repeal the 2nd Am.
There is no way it would prevent you from buying a gun used in a crime, seeing as since the gun obviously wasn't recovered from the crime scene, the registry would not identify it as such. I would love to hear one example of a clean private gun deal that involved a stolen firearm. Please post a link to this occurrence.
Punisher

Jonesboro, AR

#563 Feb 1, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
<quoted text>
I beleive that a lot of the "concerns" those people claim to have about flaws in the background check system could easily be solved with a little better cooperation than that of a kicking child being forced to take the yucky medicine.
This could easily all boil down to the simple act of gun owners having carry another card in their wallet with their concealled weapons permit.
I really don't know what all the fuss is about. Gun addicts who simply file for their background check card shouldn't have any problem buying guns anywhere he finds a good deal on one.
B
U
T
... here's the yucky part of the medicine. It could come to pass that your background check will require renewal every year - or few years. I could accept a 4 year timespan like most driver's license renewal programs.
Why don't we just start putting "ineligible to purchase firearms" on the ID of any person that isn't eligible to own a firearm? Wouldn't it be easier and more foolproof to catch these purple on the front end? Everyone is supposed to have an ID, and why should l have to carry another card? I'm not a felon, mentally ill, a domestic abuser, or anything else that prevents me from firearm ownership. Hell, I don't care if you tattoo it in ultraviolet ink on their foreheads: felon, mentally ill, wife beater, etc. what's the problem with that?
Punisher

Jonesboro, AR

#564 Feb 1, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
In answer to the 2nd poster's comments, do you actually have specific examples of registration being used in confiscation?
The first Soviet gun controls were imposed during the Russian Civil War, as Czarists, Western troops, and national independence movements battled the central Red regime. Firearm registration was introduced on April 1, 1918. On August 30, Fanny Kaplan supposedly wounded Lenin during an assassination attempt; the attempted assassination spurred a nationwide reign of terror. In October 1918, the Council of People's Commissars (the government) ordered the surrender of all firearms, ammunition, and sabres.
Sam

United States

#565 Feb 2, 2013
you really think gun control support is on the rise just compare the number of gun purchases Vs. the number of people questioned in these foolish polls. I think the number of FBI background checks say it all. Liberal media lies facts and numbers dont.
MustBAMistake

Springdale, AR

#566 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't we just start putting "ineligible to purchase firearms" on the ID of any person that isn't eligible to own a firearm? Wouldn't it be easier and more foolproof to catch these purple on the front end? Everyone is supposed to have an ID, and why should l have to carry another card? I'm not a felon, mentally ill, a domestic abuser, or anything else that prevents me from firearm ownership. Hell, I don't care if you tattoo it in ultraviolet ink on their foreheads: felon, mentally ill, wife beater, etc. what's the problem with that?
We should also put "Ineligible to Vote" if they don't understand "original intent" or somehow can't comprehend that their rights end, where mine begin.

Cathouse Mouse

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#567 Feb 2, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't we just start putting "ineligible to purchase firearms" on the ID of any person that isn't eligible to own a firearm? Wouldn't it be easier and more foolproof to catch these purple on the front end? Everyone is supposed to have an ID, and why should l have to carry another card? I'm not a felon, mentally ill, a domestic abuser, or anything else that prevents me from firearm ownership. Hell, I don't care if you tattoo it in ultraviolet ink on their foreheads: felon, mentally ill, wife beater, etc. what's the problem with that?
You didn't whine about having to carry a concealled carry card.

You'll wish it was as simple as just putting a check mark on your DL. Your mental status will need to be routinely re-affirmed on a regular basis. Your complete arsenal will need to be registered and inventoried on a regular basis.

Now, you gun addicts are gonna go off on me rattling your ammo belts and waving your assault weapons at me but I'd just remind you of all those claims and revolution threats and the "Molon Labe" rhetoric before you start trying to explain to me that carrying a new card is just too much hassle.
Dude

Jonesboro, AR

#568 Feb 2, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't whine about having to carry a concealled carry card.
You'll wish it was as simple as just putting a check mark on your DL. Your mental status will need to be routinely re-affirmed on a regular basis. Your complete arsenal will need to be registered and inventoried on a regular basis.
Now, you gun addicts are gonna go off on me rattling your ammo belts and waving your assault weapons at me but I'd just remind you of all those claims and revolution threats and the "Molon Labe" rhetoric before you start trying to explain to me that carrying a new card is just too much hassle.
You still didn't answer what's wrong with putting it on the DL or tattooing felons. The only point of concealed carry registration is to keep blacks from being able to protect themselves by making it cost prohibitive. I have complained about that, but I guess you're okay with racial discrimination.

Cathouse Mouse

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#569 Feb 2, 2013
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
You still didn't answer what's wrong with putting it on the DL or tattooing felons.

The only point of concealed carry registration is to keep blacks from being able to protect themselves by making it cost prohibitive. I have complained about that, but I guess you're okay with racial discrimination.
I'll address your question and ignore your rhetoric.

You can't "tattoo" a mark of FELON on someone. That is sooo Scarlet Letter-ish.

As I've been telling you all for weeks ... Constitutional law is NOT absolute. It is no more so absolute in freedom to own all weaponry as it is for felons who can indeed have their 2nd amendment priviledges re-instated.

guest

United States

#570 Feb 2, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't whine about having to carry a concealled carry card.
You'll wish it was as simple as just putting a check mark on your DL. Your mental status will need to be routinely re-affirmed on a regular basis. Your complete arsenal will need to be registered and inventoried on a regular basis.
Now, you gun addicts are gonna go off on me rattling your ammo belts and waving your assault weapons at me but I'd just remind you of all those claims and revolution threats and the "Molon Labe" rhetoric before you start trying to explain to me that carrying a new card is just too much hassle.
Do you think for one second that the gangs and thugs are gonna do background checks?

Cathouse Mouse

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#571 Feb 2, 2013
guest wrote:
<quoted text>Do you think for one second that the gangs and thugs are gonna do background checks?
No.

That's why additional legislation will be required that imposes very stringent jail terms for ANYONE caught illegally possessing a firearm. All guns confinscated will be destroyed.
Dude

Jonesboro, AR

#572 Feb 2, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll address your question and ignore your rhetoric.
You can't "tattoo" a mark of FELON on someone. That is sooo Scarlet Letter-ish.
As I've been telling you all for weeks ... Constitutional law is NOT absolute. It is no more so absolute in freedom to own all weaponry as it is for felons who can indeed have their 2nd amendment priviledges re-instated.
Then why not put it on your ID? That's redone every four years at minimum. The amendment says ...the right of the people to keep and BEAR arms shall not be infringed. Bear means to carry, does it not? The liberals said that requiring an ID to vote would disenfranchise minorities, so how is requiring a card that cost at least 10 times as much as an ID not a deliberate effort to strip minorities of their rights? Your pre-clearance card, is it going to be free? Sounds like you are a bigot that just wants to keep blacks away from guns. Your party's argument towards voting rights says so anyway.
Guest

Wynne, AR

#573 Feb 2, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
<quoted text>No.

That's why additional legislation will be required that imposes very stringent jail terms for ANYONE caught illegally possessing a firearm. All guns confinscated will be destroyed.
How about they impose stringent jail terms for anyone caught illegally possessing a firearm NOW?!?! Enforce current laws. There isn't a need to pose additional laws on law abiding citizens. We shouldn't be punished for other people crimes!
Fo Show

Mayflower, AR

#574 Feb 2, 2013
Arkansas' concealed weapons permits are good for 5 years unless it's changed since I got mine and then it's renewable. The problem with Drivers Licenses denoting ineligible to own firearms is that it is rather like making somebody wear a scarlet A for the sin of adultery. If I was a a person who'd done something stupid as a young man and racked myself a minor felony charge, then the last thing I would want is for my drivers license to feature a glaring sign to anybody I had to show the card to stating that I was a criminal! Rightly or wrongly, it would be held against a person who might have totally turned their life around and been a model citizen afterwards.

Since the concealed carry permit is an indication that you've been through a class and demonstrated a modicum of proficiency with a firearm, I think it should be sufficient for an instant background check. It is immediately revoked if you are convicted of a felony. I don't know how it works if you a found guilty of a domestic violence crime or found mentally incompetent.
Dude

Jonesboro, AR

#575 Feb 2, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
Arkansas' concealed weapons permits are good for 5 years unless it's changed since I got mine and then it's renewable. The problem with Drivers Licenses denoting ineligible to own firearms is that it is rather like making somebody wear a scarlet A for the sin of adultery. If I was a a person who'd done something stupid as a young man and racked myself a minor felony charge, then the last thing I would want is for my drivers license to feature a glaring sign to anybody I had to show the card to stating that I was a criminal! Rightly or wrongly, it would be held against a person who might have totally turned their life around and been a model citizen afterwards.
Since the concealed carry permit is an indication that you've been through a class and demonstrated a modicum of proficiency with a firearm, I think it should be sufficient for an instant background check. It is immediately revoked if you are convicted of a felony. I don't know how it works if you a found guilty of a domestic violence crime or found mentally incompetent.
Well if you screwed up years before and were a model citizen thereafter, I suppose you'd stand a good chance of getting that felony expunged and your rights restored. In the meantime, who cares how it makes you feel? You screwed up, not everyone else. This whole thing still sounds to me like a scheme to keep guns away from minorities. Jim Crow for guns. Sorry you can't exercise your constitutional rights unless you can come up with a few hundred dollars, sorry that the white man couldn't do anything about that black school district you were in that set you up to earn minimum wage, Whitey doesn't want anyone to know he's a felon, so you got to suffer. Bigotry.
Fo Show

Mayflower, AR

#576 Feb 2, 2013
Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Well if you screwed up years before and were a model citizen thereafter, I suppose you'd stand a good chance of getting that felony expunged and your rights restored. In the meantime, who cares how it makes you feel? You screwed up, not everyone else. This whole thing still sounds to me like a scheme to keep guns away from minorities. Jim Crow for guns. Sorry you can't exercise your constitutional rights unless you can come up with a few hundred dollars, sorry that the white man couldn't do anything about that black school district you were in that set you up to earn minimum wage, Whitey doesn't want anyone to know he's a felon, so you got to suffer. Bigotry.
Well, I do believe that this idea puts an unfair mark on somebody who may be trying to live down a mistake they made. If they are felons, they shouldn't be trying to buy a gun in the first place but putting it on their primary source of identification makes their mistake known to everybody from convenience store clerks to bank tellers. Not everybody has the money to hire a lawyer and go through the process to get an expungement. I just don't like the idea of branding something a person has to use in a variety of situations with a constant reminder of something they may have done in the past and is trying to live down. If they've paid their debt to society and are trying to live responsibly, then we shouldn't throw obstacles up for them unnecessarily. Their record will forever be their reminder unless it's expunged but it shouldn't be a Scarlet A.
Dude

Jonesboro, AR

#577 Feb 2, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I do believe that this idea puts an unfair mark on somebody who may be trying to live down a mistake they made. If they are felons, they shouldn't be trying to buy a gun in the first place but putting it on their primary source of identification makes their mistake known to everybody from convenience store clerks to bank tellers. Not everybody has the money to hire a lawyer and go through the process to get an expungement. I just don't like the idea of branding something a person has to use in a variety of situations with a constant reminder of something they may have done in the past and is trying to live down. If they've paid their debt to society and are trying to live responsibly, then we shouldn't throw obstacles up for them unnecessarily. Their record will forever be their reminder unless it's expunged but it shouldn't be a Scarlet A.
You know who can't afford fancy ccl's? Black people and old people. You know who already screwed up and lost their constitutional rights? Felons. Probably the reason so many crimes are going down is because you were so worried about hiding your past that you kept innocent low income people from protecting themselves. Who cares about a felons' rights? Other felons, that's not a club that matters. It still boils down to keeping guns away from minorities while hiding your own sordid past.

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