The National Rifle Association
Punisher

Killeen, TX

#248 Feb 7, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
I'd like to step forward now to 1986 to the McClure-Volkmer Bill.
The McClure-Volkmer firearms decontrol bill would be the NRA's flagship piece of legislation until its passage in 1986.
During this same time period, the NRA launched a campaign to discredit the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF).
I think we have seen several examples since the speech in Denver that the NRA has by now (moving into the 90's) become most dominantly a political group as was called for by Mr Harlon Carter in 1981 when he said, " We must trip our enemies and help our friends in the political arena.".
Let's talk about Charlton Heston now, shall we?
I know one thing about the FOPA of '86: it specifically keeps the federal government from creating a registry for guns other than NFA devices outlined in the GCA of '34. That's enough for me to renew my NRA membership right there.

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#249 Feb 7, 2013
I need to correct myself on something. I have been under the mistaken impression that Charlton Heston became NRA President in the early 90's , when in fact it was in the latter part of the decade.

So, I was unintentionally jumping ahead in history.

In 1991, President Ronald Reagan wrote a letter to Congress in support of the Brady Bill in which, while refering to his own experience he said;

"This nightmare might never have happened if legislation that is before Congress now -- the Brady bill -- had been law back in 1981."

The NRA opposed the Brady Bill.

In 1994, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan sent a letter of support to President Clinton in support of the ASW ban of 1994. In part it read;

In their letter, the three former presidents said:

"This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety.... Although assault weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.

While we recognize that assault-weapon legislation will not stop all assault-weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals.

We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons."

The NRA opposed the 1994 AWB.

In fact the NRA has since been fightint to overturn the Brady Bill and pronounces the expiration of the 1994 AWB as a victory.

_____

Can anyone find an argument there, or can we agree that that's all factual?
Punisher

Killeen, TX

#250 Feb 7, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
I need to correct myself on something. I have been under the mistaken impression that Charlton Heston became NRA President in the early 90's , when in fact it was in the latter part of the decade.
So, I was unintentionally jumping ahead in history.
In 1991, President Ronald Reagan wrote a letter to Congress in support of the Brady Bill in which, while refering to his own experience he said;
"This nightmare might never have happened if legislation that is before Congress now -- the Brady bill -- had been law back in 1981."
The NRA opposed the Brady Bill.
In 1994, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan sent a letter of support to President Clinton in support of the ASW ban of 1994. In part it read;
In their letter, the three former presidents said:
"This is a matter of vital importance to the public safety.... Although assault weapons account for less than 1% of the guns in circulation, they account for nearly 10% of the guns traced to crime.
While we recognize that assault-weapon legislation will not stop all assault-weapon crime, statistics prove that we can dry up the supply of these guns, making them less accessible to criminals.
We urge you to listen to the American public and to the law enforcement community and support a ban on the further manufacture of these weapons."
The NRA opposed the 1994 AWB.
In fact the NRA has since been fightint to overturn the Brady Bill and pronounces the expiration of the 1994 AWB as a victory.
_____
Can anyone find an argument there, or can we agree that that's all factual?
Yes Reagan signed that form letter surrounds the same time he went public with his Alzheimers. He could've used the same defense as Hinckley.
what in the world?

Trumann, AR

#251 Feb 7, 2013
So we should stop making assualt weapons. It's not like drug cartel won't start pawning them to criminal no not at all bc criminal are first hand there guns over. Right your logic makes no sense. Millions of dollars in drugs make it across the border a day. Weapons will be just as easy If banned. Money makes world go round for drug cartels.
Fo Show

Little Rock, AR

#252 Feb 7, 2013
[QUOTE who="what in the world?"]So we should stop making assualt weapons. It's not like drug cartel won't start pawning them to criminal no not at all bc criminal are first hand there guns over. Right your logic makes no sense. Millions of dollars in drugs make it across the border a day. Weapons will be just as easy If banned. Money makes world go round for drug cartels.[/QUOTE]

Except the black market for asssasult weapons which are also produced in numerous other countries. They'll just become a new market. And money doesn't seem to be a problem for them.
4real

AOL

#253 Feb 8, 2013
Men have tried for centuries to legislate morality and all have failed. This is no different.
guest

Bossier City, LA

#254 Feb 8, 2013
So cat, it looks like you are invalid, as usual, again. This whole thread to try to down the National Rifle Association, and .... nothing,, zilch, nada. Try hate mongering something else, maybe it'll work out for you. But this one is dead.

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#255 Feb 8, 2013
Good morning,

First let me clear up the suggestion that it is my intent to discredit the NRA. It has been the goal since page 1 post 1 to discuss the history of the NRA based on fact. I have numerous times inquired about corrections and there has been few, which have each been addressed.

In a letter to Rep. Scott Klug, a Wisconsin Republican, Reagan said the limitations proposed by the Assault Weapon Ban “are absolutely necessary” and that it “must be passed.” Klug voted in favor of the ban.

Ronald Reagan's support of the Assault Weapons Ban in 1994 may have directly led to the ban winning the approval of Congress. Congress passed the ban by a vote of 216-214. In addition to Klug (R-WS) voting for the ban after Reagan’s last minute plea, Rep. Dick Swett, D-N.H., also credited Reagan’s support of the bill for helping him decide to cast a favorable vote.

***

[ Personal opionion; I find it very interesting that Reagan was in 1994 supporting what righties today call unconstitutional tyranny of the Federal Government ]

***

Moving on ...
what in the world?

Trumann, AR

#257 Feb 8, 2013
See fact is trying discredit them not gonna stop them. Every association can be discredit to a point. Fact is if someone could took the NRA down by now. They would have so keep peeing in the wind.

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#258 Feb 8, 2013
Review;

We have established now that President's have long been in support of gun control. In fact, every President since the assassination of JFK has in some meaningful way expressed support for tougher restrictions on firearms and ammunition.

Lyndon B Johnson
Richard M.Nixon (supported handgun bans)
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy E. Carter
Ronald W. Reagan
GHW Bush (abolished NRA membership)
Bill Clinton
GW Bush

and

Barack Obama

Are there any questions about the factual nature of this comment?

I'll be back this afternoon.
guest

Bossier City, LA

#260 Feb 8, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
Review;
We have established now that President's have long been in support of gun control. In fact, every President since the assassination of JFK has in some meaningful way expressed support for tougher restrictions on firearms and ammunition.
Lyndon B Johnson
Richard M.Nixon (supported handgun bans)
Gerald R. Ford
Jimmy E. Carter
Ronald W. Reagan
GHW Bush (abolished NRA membership)
Bill Clinton
GW Bush
and
Barack Obama
Are there any questions about the factual nature of this comment?
I'll be back this afternoon.
Hinting at supporting gun control and actually supporting it....that's two different animals. The rhetoric was all about votes. If you're ready half as intelligent as you say you are, you would know that, but that just falls in line woth blindly pushing your agenda.
Fo Show

Little Rock, AR

#261 Feb 8, 2013
I have some problems with the NRA. I left them in the late 1990s because they had become so reactionary. In the last election they gave certain Democratic lawmakers downgraded NRA ratings over the most idiotic reasons and they didn't offer explanations. The message was clear: vote 100% of the way we want or we might not give you an A rating. I witnessed this with a candidate I knew all my life and I couldn't imagine why he would have gotten a C+ rating when he'd never voted on any gun issue. So, while I support the 2nd Amendment, the NRA has become too extreme for me.
Punisher

United States

#262 Feb 8, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
I have some problems with the NRA. I left them in the late 1990s because they had become so reactionary. In the last election they gave certain Democratic lawmakers downgraded NRA ratings over the most idiotic reasons and they didn't offer explanations. The message was clear: vote 100% of the way we want or we might not give you an A rating. I witnessed this with a candidate I knew all my life and I couldn't imagine why he would have gotten a C+ rating when he'd never voted on any gun issue. So, while I support the 2nd Amendment, the NRA has become too extreme for me.
I think they have to be extreme in order to counter the register every gun and destroy every gun crowd. They've learned over the last century that of you give an inch on guns, the next time they'll call for a mile, so they've drawn their line in the sand, the gun control lobby has drawn theirs about a mile down the beach, and we stand around and glare suspiciously at each other, occasionally hurling some accusations. That's gun control in the US, and I'm pretty happy with it.
4real

AOL

#264 Feb 8, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
I think they have to be extreme in order to counter the register every gun and destroy every gun crowd. They've learned over the last century that of you give an inch on guns, the next time they'll call for a mile, so they've drawn their line in the sand, the gun control lobby has drawn theirs about a mile down the beach, and we stand around and glare suspiciously at each other, occasionally hurling some accusations. That's gun control in the US, and I'm pretty happy with it.
One of the most intelligent post so far.
4real

AOL

#265 Feb 8, 2013
Cathouse Mouse wrote:
Good morning,
First let me clear up the suggestion that it is my intent to discredit the NRA. It has been the goal since page 1 post 1 to discuss the history of the NRA based on fact. I have numerous times inquired about corrections and there has been few, which have each been addressed.
In a letter to Rep. Scott Klug, a Wisconsin Republican, Reagan said the limitations proposed by the Assault Weapon Ban “are absolutely necessary” and that it “must be passed.” Klug voted in favor of the ban.
Ronald Reagan's support of the Assault Weapons Ban in 1994 may have directly led to the ban winning the approval of Congress. Congress passed the ban by a vote of 216-214. In addition to Klug (R-WS) voting for the ban after Reagan’s last minute plea, Rep. Dick Swett, D-N.H., also credited Reagan’s support of the bill for helping him decide to cast a favorable vote.
***
[ Personal opionion; I find it very interesting that Reagan was in 1994 supporting what righties today call unconstitutional tyranny of the Federal Government ]
***
Moving on ...
Reagan's support in 94? Got your dates mixed up?
Punisher

United States

#266 Feb 8, 2013
4real wrote:
<quoted text>
Reagan's support in 94? Got your dates mixed up?
Reagan did write letters in support of the AWB in '94. Earlier in that year he also wrote a letter to the American people to announce his advanced Alzheimer's syndrome, so I don't think he was the same Reagan by that point.
Fo Show

Little Rock, AR

#267 Feb 8, 2013
Punisher wrote:
<quoted text>
I think they have to be extreme in order to counter the register every gun and destroy every gun crowd. They've learned over the last century that of you give an inch on guns, the next time they'll call for a mile, so they've drawn their line in the sand, the gun control lobby has drawn theirs about a mile down the beach, and we stand around and glare suspiciously at each other, occasionally hurling some accusations. That's gun control in the US, and I'm pretty happy with it.
I think you you can take a strong stand without appearing to be frighteningly severe and appear out of touch. And the micro scrutinzing of elected leaders at a local level is about imtimidation, nothing else. I've read too many stories about small state legislators from all over who were NRA members who were suddenly downgraded for no legitimate reason at all. The message is clear: do what we say or else we turn on you. That's not the kind of citizen advocacy I find responsible or desireable. These people didn't even know they had been given a downgrade or why. The NRA needs to look at how they come across to the non-gun crowd. They've already got the support of the gun owners so they need to be appealing to the non-gun crowd and come across as a reasonable and responsible advocy group.
guest

United States

#268 Feb 8, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you you can take a strong stand without appearing to be frighteningly severe and appear out of touch. And the micro scrutinzing of elected leaders at a local level is about imtimidation, nothing else. I've read too many stories about small state legislators from all over who were NRA members who were suddenly downgraded for no legitimate reason at all. The message is clear: do what we say or else we turn on you. That's not the kind of citizen advocacy I find responsible or desireable. These people didn't even know they had been given a downgrade or why. The NRA needs to look at how they come across to the non-gun crowd. They've already got the support of the gun owners so they need to be appealing to the non-gun crowd and come across as a reasonable and responsible advocy group.
They are reasonable and responsible. They simply want the constitution practiced. Most of the control advocates dont really care about the laws of the land, except twisting it into their agenda, and screw you. They're thinking is no guns, and they don't give a rats ass about your thinking.
Punisher

Lampasas, TX

#269 Feb 8, 2013
Fo Show wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you you can take a strong stand without appearing to be frighteningly severe and appear out of touch. And the micro scrutinzing of elected leaders at a local level is about imtimidation, nothing else. I've read too many stories about small state legislators from all over who were NRA members who were suddenly downgraded for no legitimate reason at all. The message is clear: do what we say or else we turn on you. That's not the kind of citizen advocacy I find responsible or desireable. These people didn't even know they had been given a downgrade or why. The NRA needs to look at how they come across to the non-gun crowd. They've already got the support of the gun owners so they need to be appealing to the non-gun crowd and come across as a reasonable and responsible advocy group.
I don't have any faith in the ratings anyway, I've long thought it would be better if they just kept up with the voting record of each politician and went from there. Obama had a good NRA rating by just voting present on gun bills in the senate. Anyone who simply goes by the NRA rating is a low information voter in my opinion.

Since: Aug 10

Cathouse Mouse

#270 Feb 8, 2013
It is in these 90's when the issue of mental health being the culprit of cause for some of the bizzare shooting rampages of the times became part of the discussion on gun violence in the United States.

The amount of funding for research in this field in the 90's was HUGE compared today. The National Center for Injury Control and Prevention was in charge of firearms research.

Their findings were an insult to the NRA. Chris Cox, the N.R.A.’s chief lobbyist said;

“Our concern is not with legitimate medical science, our concern is they were promoting the idea that gun ownership was a disease that needed to be eradicated.”

In 1996, Representative Jay Dickey, Republican of Arkansas, succeeded in pushing through an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the disease control centers’ budget, the very amount it had spent on firearms-related research the year before.

How about some thoughts on that?

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