Guest

Charleston, WV

#21 Sep 3, 2010
America 1st wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm saying that if you believe something can pop into existence from nothing, you've lost your grasp on rational thought.
I'm saying that if you're ignorant enough to believe that something can exist even before it exists so that it can create itself, you'll believe almost anything.
Some of us just aren't that stupid.
<quoted text>
I'm not relying on corporate media. He claims in his book that the universe created itself from nothing. That's about as irrational and unscientific as one can get. But hey, if you're stupid enough to swallow that bullshit, go for it. I'll stick with science and logic.
God is science and logic or is it faith?

It didn't just poof into existence, God poofed it into existence?

I'm just trying to understand your position, no offense intended.
mom

United States

#22 Sep 3, 2010
How long would it have taken this imaginary friend to put all of these works of art together? Just wondering, I think I will stick to science and logic too.

“I don't need no stinkin job.”

Since: May 09

Topix Bar and Grill

#23 Sep 3, 2010
Before you can resolve with the creation of the universe, you must first resolve with the age of the universe, including the age of planet Earth.

Most devisive opinions start there.
iMatt

Fort Worth, TX

#24 Sep 3, 2010
mom wrote:
How long would it have taken this imaginary friend to put all of these works of art together? Just wondering, I think I will stick to science and logic too.
Im not dissing anyones opinion on this, but where's the logic in this science....Hawkings 'theory' says the universe created itself with the force of gravity(if I'm understanding correctly). In order for gravity to exist, there has to be some kind of body or object, right? So, using that logic, when 'nothing' existed, how could there be any gravity from which the universe created itself?

Since: Aug 08

Little Rock, AR

#25 Sep 3, 2010
Guest wrote:
God is science and logic or is it faith?
It didn't just poof into existence, God poofed it into existence?
I'm just trying to understand your position, no offense intended.
The best available science tells us that the universe had a beginning. The prevailing theory is that all matter and energy in the universe existed in a single point, then the big bang occurred that propelled it all into motion.

Newtonian physics states that bodies at rest stay at rest unless acted upon by an outside force. So, if all matter and energy existed in one single body, some outside force, according to scientific law, was necessary to propel it all into motion. That outside force was outside of all matter and energy in the universe, and therefore by definition it was a supernatural force.

Realizing this dilemma, many atheists will either reject science and claim that the universe had no beginning, or they will claim that the universe popped into existence from nothing, which is Hawkings claim.

The idea that something can create itself out of nothing is preposterous and the height of irrational thought. One of the foundational maxims of logic is "ex nihilo, nihil fit" which means out of nothing, nothing comes.

You can have an empty shoe box in the top of your closet and it will never fill itself with gold. It's silly to say that it will.

So, one one hand we have known scientific laws and foundational maxims of logic that demand the existence of a supernatural force or being. On the other hand we have those who reject known science and foundational maxims of logic, and with nothing but blind faith hold that there is no supernatural force or being.

So I ask you, which position is based on science and logic, and which one is based on blind faith?

Since: Aug 08

Little Rock, AR

#26 Sep 3, 2010
Left Brain Thinker wrote:
Before you can resolve with the creation of the universe, you must first resolve with the age of the universe, including the age of planet Earth.
Most devisive opinions start there.
That isn't necessary to answer the question of whether a superatural force or being exists. All that is necessary is to apply known laws of physics and/or founational maxims of logic.

Of course if you want to argue that no supernatural force or being exists you must reject science and logic, and then cling to the atheistic view with nothing but blind faith.
Guest

Russellville, AR

#27 Sep 3, 2010
Poppycock!

BDU

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#28 Sep 3, 2010
America 1st wrote:
That isn't necessary to answer the question of whether a superatural force or being exists. All that is necessary is to apply known laws of physics and/or founational maxims of logic.
Of course if you want to argue that no supernatural force or being exists you must reject science and logic, and then cling to the atheistic view with nothing but blind faith.
Did that supernatural force or being direct the writing of a book to guide mankind? Does it answer individual prayer and forgive sins? Did it also create a place of everlasting orgasms for it adherents, as well as a place of everlasting torment for those who question its validity? Does it impregnate virgins from afar, thereby violating known law of biology and foundational maxims of logic?

“I don't need no stinkin job.”

Since: May 09

Topix Bar and Grill

#29 Sep 3, 2010
The idea of an expanding and contracting universe in not a new idea.
Porky Wayne Huxtable

Deridder, LA

#30 Sep 3, 2010
America 1st wrote:
<quoted text>
That isn't necessary to answer the question of whether a superatural force or being exists. All that is necessary is to apply known laws of physics and/or founational maxims of logic.
Of course if you want to argue that no supernatural force or being exists you must reject science and logic, and then cling to the atheistic view with nothing but blind faith.
Claude, one of the many differences between you and me is that I delight in the fact that exnihilonihilfit exists as a philosophical legacy, that it exercises contemplation across millenia and continents, that it is one of the unanswered questions that allows mystery and God to be retained, contemplated, debated, denied, and expressed. It's unfortunate that for you it has become a crass political position that compels you to express unbridled disdain toward Hawking, a thinker who is simply contributing to the heritage of this unanswerable but always ponderable philosophical matter. He who cannot contemplate exnihilonilhilfit and discover a spark of mystery has missed the entire point of this fundamental question.

Welcome to the human condition, Claude. Try to join it sometime.

-Porky Ray
iMatt

United States

#31 Sep 3, 2010
I thought America Firsts explanation was interesting, factual, and the best so far...whether ur an athiest or not.
iMatt

United States

#32 Sep 3, 2010
Unless you can show some facts about Hawkings "theory"....that's EXACTLY what it is....a theory

“I'm mean because you're dumb.”

Since: Mar 09

Jonesboro, AR

#33 Sep 3, 2010
iMatt wrote:
Unless you can show some facts about Hawkings "theory"....that's EXACTLY what it is....a theory
That's also EXACTLY what A1 has.. a theory.
iMatt

Fort Worth, TX

#34 Sep 3, 2010
Maladi wrote:
<quoted text>
That's also EXACTLY what A1 has.. a theory.
Ok,true. But the title of this topic is stating "God did not create the universe" based on Hawkings theory which Is what I was referring to :)

“I don't need no stinkin job.”

Since: May 09

Topix Bar and Grill

#35 Sep 3, 2010
iMatt wrote:
Unless you can show some facts about Hawkings "theory"....that's EXACTLY what it is....a theory
As compared with devine creation, which is based in faith and is not backed by scientific theory.
truth

United States

#36 Sep 3, 2010
all this from people who put their faith in a god that lets children starve, people suffer terrible deaths, and millions who have died in his name. remember IS-RA-EL is named for a tripantheon of Isis, Amen-Ra, and Elohim. now what do you think you follows of these ancient Gods who call yourself christian. you need to know who you sold your soul too. or do you still wish to follow the men who tell you they can save you just put 10% of what you make in a plate so they can have it. when will will you stop believing in magic. when you die you don't go anywhere you rot and turn to dirt.
Curt

Deridder, LA

#37 Sep 4, 2010
truth wrote:
all this from people who put their faith in a god that lets children starve, people suffer terrible deaths, and millions who have died in his name. remember IS-RA-EL is named for a tripantheon of Isis, Amen-Ra, and Elohim. now what do you think you follows of these ancient Gods who call yourself christian. you need to know who you sold your soul too. or do you still wish to follow the men who tell you they can save you just put 10% of what you make in a plate so they can have it. when will will you stop believing in magic. when you die you don't go anywhere you rot and turn to dirt.
Screw Israel. It's a corrupt country. Why do nutty christians constantly obsess over the insipid legacy of these so-called chosen people? AIPAC has hijacked our country's political process, and dumbass evangelicals give them the red carpet. Israel is a resource-free desert fiefdom and its religion is primitive non-philosophical nonsense.

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#38 Sep 4, 2010
EXPLANATION OF GOD:
'One of God's main jobs is making people. He makes them to replace the ones that
die, so there will be enough people to take care of things on earth. He doesn't
make grownups, just babies. I think because they are smaller and easier to
make. That way he doesn't have to take up his valuable time teaching them to
talk and walk. He can just leave that to mothers and fathers.'

'God's second most important job is listening to prayers. An awful lot of this
goes on, since some people, like preachers and things, pray at times beside
bedtime. God doesn't have time to listen to the radio or TV because of this.
Because he hears everything, there must be a terrible lot of noise in his ears,
unless he has thought of a way to turn it off.'

'God sees everything and hears everything and is everywhere which keeps Him
pretty busy. So you shouldn't go wasting his time by going over your mom and
dad's head asking for something they said you couldn't have.'

'Atheists are people who don't believe in God. I don't think there are any in
Chula Vista . At least there aren't any who come to our church.'

'Jesus is God's Son. He used to do all the hard work, like walking on water and
performing miracles and trying to teach the people who didn't want to learn
about God. They finally got tired of him preaching to them and they crucified
him. But he was good and kind, like his father, and he told his father that
they didn't know what they were doing and to forgive them and God said O.K.'

'His dad (God) appreciated everything that he had done and all his hard work on
earth so he told him he didn't have to go out on the road anymore. He could
stay in heaven. So he did. And now he helps his dad out by listening to prayers
and seeing things which are important for God to take care of and which ones he
can take care of himself without having to bother God. Like a secretary, only
more important.'

'You can pray anytime you want and they are sure to help you because they got it
worked out so one of them is on duty all the time.'

'You should always go to church on Sunday because it makes God happy, and if
there's anybody you want to make happy, it's God!

Don't skip church to do something you think will be more fun like going to
the beach. This is wrong. And besides the sun doesn't come out at the beach
until noon anyway.'

'If you don't believe in God, besides being an atheist, you will be very
lonely, because your parents can't go everywhere with you, like to camp, but God
can. It is good to know He's around you when you're scared, in the dark or when
you can't swim and you get thrown into real deep water by big kids.'

'But...you shouldn't just always think of what God can do for you. I figure God
put me here and he can take me back anytime he pleases.

And...that's why I believe in God.'

(If you believe in God, please pass this on, and may God bless you too.)
Have an awesome day, and know that someone has thought about you!


“Yes, I'm still "justme".”

Since: Feb 10

Blytheville, AR

#39 Sep 4, 2010
Writing in the Times (in response to Hawking's book), Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks said: "Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation ... The Bible simply isn't interested in how the Universe came into being."

The Rabbi makes a good point.

Even geniuses, especially geniuses, can miss seeing the forest for love of the trees. Perhaps Hawking loves the details so much he can't see the whole picture.

Even geniuses have emotional history that biases their view of the world. Hawking has always been an athiest, so why is it news that he would say God doesn't exist?

As far as I can tell his book doesn't propose any new cosmological theories, it just tells his opinion about the ones that already exist.

One of his own theories regarding the initial singularity of the universe, the Hartle/Hawking theory, removes the singularity and still leaves a beginning to the universe. So far a beginning has proved unavoidable by all but the most purely speculative attempts thrown at it.

The only way out of a beginning, as far as I have seen, would be the multidimensional route which apparenlty Hawking proposes as a way out of the singularity. This idea meshes splendidly with the idea of metaphysics, heaven, hell, angels and God.

So, the non-creator theory Hawking proposes is just purely personal bias. The same bias with which he has always approached his science...so this declaration of noncreation should be held with a note of skepticism simply by virtue of it's unobjectiveness.

“I don't need no stinkin job.”

Since: May 09

Topix Bar and Grill

#40 Sep 4, 2010
Well. If there is no GOD, then there can't be a Satan.

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