Patrick

Kingsport, TN

#41 Dec 29, 2012
My experience has been sorted. I don't have perfect faith. But I'm a product of what I fill my head with. There was a period of about 4 years that I developed a routine. After work, I showered, and then sat quietly on the bed and read a chapter from the New Testament with the little guides out beside it.

I saw God in every little thing that happened all day long. He was as real as you and I.

I got off f that and don't see him anywhere.

Now, it's impossible to meet Jesus and then somehow UNMEET HIM. I've never denied him, yet. I hope I never do.

I don't hate athiest. I'm more inclined to hate the Churchity church people. They make me sick. So fake. So evil. So stupid. No offense
This

Kingsport, TN

#42 Dec 29, 2012
truth wrote:
<quoted text>
It's so funny when people quote Epicurious in reference to the God of the Bible, the Hebrew God. He lived during the time that most Greeks and Romans still followed the gods of mythology. He believed in those gods also. He just felt they had no interest in humanity, and therefore, humanity should have no interest in them. The actual quote is "gods" pluralized. Atheists have grabbed it and twisted it to fit their conscience. By the way, its entirely possible he had not even heard about the God of the Bible at the time of his death.
All that aside, God gave humanity, all humanity, a unique gift. Freewill. Interrupting the nature or consequences, both good and bad, would nullify the gift itself. Reap what you sow, if you will. We have the opportunity to use it to good, but unfortunately, we are equally able to use it for evil. God isn't ignoring evil. He's allowing us to see what our free nature is capable of. There will be a day, when all the evil will be duly punished. Until that time, the evil in this world is 100% the result of human decisions made on the devil's temptations. Epicurious's logic does not apply, unless you would rather God have created mindless robots. Remembers, atheists use the gift of God to reject Him. If He changed the terms, you'd lose a whole lot of freedom.
So, you think a phrase can only be used once and can't be applied to anything else? Wow, that's dumb. I was just using a commonly known phrase to say this...I'll break it down for you...

What kind of sick, demented God would be "all powerful" and yet do NOTHING while children starve, babies are raped, and elderly people (many of whom have been faithful to the church and God) lay and suffer for months or even years while they're eaten with cancer? You call that a loving God? Who in the hell wants to be a member of that twisted club?

Furthermore, have you ever noticed how children usually follow the same religion as their parents? Coincidence? I highly doubt it! What if you're born into a family that isn't religious at all? There are MANY, MANY religions...not just Christianity. Of course, Christians believe you have to accept "The Lord, Jesus Christ" in order to claim your spot in Heaven....but Muslims, Hindu, etc, etc, etc, are all EQUALLY convinced that THEIR religion is THE religion. Does a child born into a home of no religion just play eenie meenie miney moe and hope they land on "THE" religion that will save a seat in Heaven? When you aren't born to a mother and father who believe in brainwashing then you take a look around at all the religions and they are equally far fetched.

I'll leave you with another quote.

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
Sister Fatima

Johnson City, TN

#43 Dec 29, 2012
truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Darwinian evolution has never been witnessed by human eyes. It can't be recreated in a laboratory and the fossil record doesn't support it. The best excuse science can come up with is "we're here, so it must've happened". Talk about your religious dogmas.....
And before someone challenges my statement, contrary to popular belief, natural selection and Darwinian evolution have nothing to do with one another. Science has only been able to test and see two types of mutations, negative, which is a detrimental defect to any living thing; and neutral mutations, ie different color fur for example. Wolves being bred into thousands of breeds of dogs is an example of a neutral mutation. They're still canines, and no matter how many combinations you breed together, you'll always get canines. You'll never get an entirely new animal. Positive mutations are needed for this. The adding of new DNA. Problem...such mutations have never been witnessed in nature or the lab. Never. Get that? NEVER. In other words, Darwinian evolution, when put to the test, relies completely on faith. A religion. Sure, they'll keep telling you that adaptation and evolution co-exist, and to clear your conscience, you'll gobble it down as logic and knowledge. And then you try to convince Christians that they are dumb and believe in a fairy tale. All the while, your naive little brain soaks up the fakest religion the world has ever known. If anyone likes, I can add much more to this. I have studied evolution in depth and used to be a believer, but if these so called scientists would actually release all the evidence, most of which keeps debunking their own little theory, the world would be outraged. Go to a large evolution conference just once. They need mass amounts of security to keep these guys separated from each other due to the extreme differences in in their theory. Yet, they sell you the "80% of scientists accept evolution as fact" bs. Not even close to that number because they all have their own opinion of what evolution is.
This is a strawman argument. I never mentioned evolution, nor did I compare religion to science.
humble

Southbury, CT

#44 Dec 29, 2012
Patrick wrote:
My experience has been sorted. I don't have perfect faith. But I'm a product of what I fill my head with. There was a period of about 4 years that I developed a routine. After work, I showered, and then sat quietly on the bed and read a chapter from the New Testament with the little guides out beside it.

I saw God in every little thing that happened all day long. He was as real as you and I.

I got off f that and don't see him anywhere.

Now, it's impossible to meet Jesus and then somehow UNMEET HIM. I've never denied him, yet. I hope I never do.

I don't hate athiest. I'm more inclined to hate the Churchity church people. They make me sick. So fake. So evil. So stupid. No offense
My situation is very similar to what you just spoke of. I feel the same way about church people, they've done more to sway me away from Christianity then anything. I don't think Christians are suppose to be perfect, but they should at least take time to learn their own religion and not come across as idiots when discussions like this arise. Christians take on a lot of responsibility when they speak or act, they have the power to sway people in either direction simply by being the type of person I'd wanna be or living a life that is appealing to a non believer. Like always, this discussion has turned into a pissing match about who is right or wrong and people are insulting other people's intelligence. It always seems to end this way
humble

Southbury, CT

#45 Dec 29, 2012
This wrote:
<quoted text>So, you think a phrase can only be used once and can't be applied to anything else? Wow, that's dumb. I was just using a commonly known phrase to say this...I'll break it down for you...

What kind of sick, demented God would be "all powerful" and yet do NOTHING while children starve, babies are raped, and elderly people (many of whom have been faithful to the church and God) lay and suffer for months or even years while they're eaten with cancer? You call that a loving God? Who in the hell wants to be a member of that twisted club?

Furthermore, have you ever noticed how children usually follow the same religion as their parents? Coincidence? I highly doubt it! What if you're born into a family that isn't religious at all? There are MANY, MANY religions...not just Christianity. Of course, Christians believe you have to accept "The Lord, Jesus Christ" in order to claim your spot in Heaven....but Muslims, Hindu, etc, etc, etc, are all EQUALLY convinced that THEIR religion is THE religion. Does a child born into a home of no religion just play eenie meenie miney moe and hope they land on "THE" religion that will save a seat in Heaven? When you aren't born to a mother and father who believe in brainwashing then you take a look around at all the religions and they are equally far fetched.

I'll leave you with another quote.

"When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
I've spoken with Muslims that believe Jesus and Mohammed were the same person. Have you ever studied the similarities of Islam and Christianity? It's quite fascinating. Judaism walks along the same path too. Our country was founded on the belief structure of the major religions. The founding fathers believed our country would not survive unless we remained a "moral people".. This being said, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were non believers, as we're others I'm sure. Seems like our country has had religious cheques and balances since its beginning, and I think that's a good thing.
Mike

Kingsport, TN

#46 Dec 29, 2012
humble wrote:
<quoted text>
I've spoken with Muslims that believe Jesus and Mohammed were the same person. Have you ever studied the similarities of Islam and Christianity? It's quite fascinating. Judaism walks along the same path too. Our country was founded on the belief structure of the major religions. The founding fathers believed our country would not survive unless we remained a "moral people".. This being said, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were non believers, as we're others I'm sure. Seems like our country has had religious cheques and balances since its beginning, and I think that's a good thing.
I find it interesting that you have spoken to Muslims that believe Jesus and Muhammad were the same person. I have never seen this anywhere. It is quite certain that Muhammad lived in the late 500s to early 600s so it would be quite a difference between Jesus and Muhammad. The Koran speaks about Jesus as a completely different person and tells about the virgin birth so it would be very strange that the two would be considered the same.
Fred

Kingsport, TN

#47 Dec 29, 2012
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it interesting that you have spoken to Muslims that believe Jesus and Muhammad were the same person. I have never seen this anywhere. It is quite certain that Muhammad lived in the late 500s to early 600s so it would be quite a difference between Jesus and Muhammad. The Koran speaks about Jesus as a completely different person and tells about the virgin birth so it would be very strange that the two would be considered the same.
Not strange at all. It's similar to Christianity and Mormonism. Christ was in Israel. No he wasn't, he was in South America. No he wasn't . Mormons have more sects than we have demonizations. Make sense?
Fred

Kingsport, TN

#48 Dec 29, 2012
humble wrote:
<quoted text>
My situation is very similar to what you just spoke of. I feel the same way about church people, they've done more to sway me away from Christianity then anything. I don't think Christians are suppose to be perfect, but they should at least take time to learn their own religion and not come across as idiots when discussions like this arise. Christians take on a lot of responsibility when they speak or act, they have the power to sway people in either direction simply by being the type of person I'd wanna be or living a life that is appealing to a non believer. Like always, this discussion has turned into a pissing match about who is right or wrong and people are insulting other people's intelligence. It always seems to end this way
You're a good person. Christ can use you immensely because you're on the PERFECT PATH. It's a program of attraction, not promotion. Our Great COMMISSION is to introduce them to Christ. The ONLY way is thru love and example. The church is COMPLETELY LOST. They are AGRESSIVE and mean spirited, judge mental and complete freaks. They want WAR and they are going to get it, too. Satan has entered the world thru the church itself. That's a fact. And they are looking to Europe . One last thing .google an Irish monk named Malichy. He predicted the names and order of each of the popes in succession even up to the name and order of this pope...according to this Malichy (15h century). The next pope is the false prophet. Be ready. Stand with Israel no matter what. This American church will end up attacking Israel. They are of satan
This

Kingsport, TN

#49 Dec 30, 2012
humble wrote:
<quoted text>
I've spoken with Muslims that believe Jesus and Mohammed were the same person. Have you ever studied the similarities of Islam and Christianity? It's quite fascinating. Judaism walks along the same path too. Our country was founded on the belief structure of the major religions. The founding fathers believed our country would not survive unless we remained a "moral people".. This being said, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were non believers, as we're others I'm sure. Seems like our country has had religious cheques and balances since its beginning, and I think that's a good thing.
I can't say I'm disappointed that so many people are gullible and willing to believe such nonsense, however disheartening it may be, because it keeps people in line.

I'm not sure what you mentioning the similarities in different religions has to do with my previous post. I assume you were referring to me saying they are equally far fetched. They can be similar and equally far fetched. That makes perfect sense as well.
humble

Southbury, CT

#50 Dec 30, 2012
This wrote:
<quoted text>I can't say I'm disappointed that so many people are gullible and willing to believe such nonsense, however disheartening it may be, because it keeps people in line.

I'm not sure what you mentioning the similarities in different religions has to do with my previous post. I assume you were referring to me saying they are equally far fetched. They can be similar and equally far fetched. That makes perfect sense as well.
Was referring to the "Which one is "The" right one" comment.. The similarity in religions are such as The Golden Rule or "Do unto others" philosophy. When I get aggravated with Christianity I ask myself this question, am I getting aggravated over the religion itself or the people that claim to be practicing it? More times then not its the people. The religion itself is pretty fascinating to me from the historic stand point. There's a lot of historic fact in the Bible, lots of stories told that did indeed happen. Jesus Christ was a real person, his life is historic fact, what he did in his lifetime is up for speculation tho. I don't consider myself an atheist because I believe in God, I consider myself an agnostic because I'm "religiously unaffiliated" with any religious sect. I wish that atheists and Christians/Muslims/ Jews could have these discussions civilly without insults to each others intelligence. Atheists provide opposing view points, that's important in ANY debate. From a moral stand point, can you imagine a world without religion? It would be anarchy IMO. Religion holds people morally accountable for their actions in a big way.
humble

Southbury, CT

#51 Dec 30, 2012
Fred wrote:
<quoted text>You're a good person. Christ can use you immensely because you're on the PERFECT PATH. It's a program of attraction, not promotion. Our Great COMMISSION is to introduce them to Christ. The ONLY way is thru love and example. The church is COMPLETELY LOST. They are AGRESSIVE and mean spirited, judge mental and complete freaks. They want WAR and they are going to get it, too. Satan has entered the world thru the church itself. That's a fact. And they are looking to Europe . One last thing .google an Irish monk named Malichy. He predicted the names and order of each of the popes in succession even up to the name and order of this pope...according to this Malichy (15h century). The next pope is the false prophet. Be ready. Stand with Israel no matter what. This American church will end up attacking Israel. They are of satan
The common denominator in these types of discussions is the insulting of intelligence done by both sides. I've met brilliant Christians/Muslims and I've met brilliant Atheists. I don't believe that ones personal beliefs or religious preference defines them intellectually. Atheists are important to religion IMO, they keep the religious on their toes and hold them accountable in society.
Booker Phillips

Elizabethton, TN

#52 Dec 30, 2012
humble wrote:
<quoted text>
The common denominator in these types of discussions is the insulting of intelligence done by both sides. I've met brilliant Christians/Muslims and I've met brilliant Atheists. I don't believe that ones personal beliefs or religious preference defines them intellectually. Atheists are important to religion IMO, they keep the religious on their toes and hold them accountable in society.
Very well stated! Is one group any more or less intelligent because they believe only what they can see or is it the other because they choose to believe in that which they can not see? Eventually, we all have that question answered.
LOST

Baltimore, MD

#53 Dec 31, 2012
This wrote:
<quoted text>
What kind of sick, demented God would be "all powerful" and yet do NOTHING while children starve, babies are raped, and elderly people (many of whom have been faithful to the church and God) lay and suffer for months or even years while they're eaten with cancer? You call that a loving God? Who in the hell wants to be a member of that twisted club?
Did you even read any of my other posts? Your argument is invalid.
sure

Kingsport, TN

#54 Dec 31, 2012
Just because you make excuses for your demented "God" doesn't make my argument (since that's what you're calling it) invalid.
LOST

Baltimore, MD

#55 Dec 31, 2012
sure wrote:
Just because you make excuses for your demented "God" doesn't make my argument (since that's what you're calling it) invalid.
If it directly refutes your statement using valid reasoning, and you have no response other than name calling, ridicule, mocking, etc, then yeah, it does in fact make your argument invalid. My responses directly answered your line of questioning, and showed that if in fact there is a God, and that God does in fact represent what is written in the Bible, then your statement of God being malevolent is fallacy. Also, during debate, arguments are the proper terms for opposing sides. Now, I'm happy to allow you to provide information to disprove my hypothesis if you would like...
sure

Kingsport, TN

#56 Dec 31, 2012
Allow me? That's hilarious. Look who has a god complex...literally.

Do you realize how ridiculous it is to ask someone (or "allow" them) to provide information to disprove something doesn't exist. Yeah, let me provide evidence that there is no tooth fairy.

You're the one who believes there is a man in the sky who watches our every move so shouldn't you be the one who should provide some evidence? Oh yeah, you can't. It's usually very simple to prove that something does in fact exist when it does. If I want to prove that a cup of coffee exists then I will show you a cup of coffee. Your turn.
humble

Southbury, CT

#57 Dec 31, 2012
sure wrote:
Allow me? That's hilarious. Look who has a god complex...literally.

Do you realize how ridiculous it is to ask someone (or "allow" them) to provide information to disprove something doesn't exist. Yeah, let me provide evidence that there is no tooth fairy.

You're the one who believes there is a man in the sky who watches our every move so shouldn't you be the one who should provide some evidence? Oh yeah, you can't. It's usually very simple to prove that something does in fact exist when it does. If I want to prove that a cup of coffee exists then I will show you a cup of coffee. Your turn.
It's almost 2013 and mankind still hasn't discovered everything there is to know here on Earth. New species are still being discovered in the oceans we never knew about. Then there's outer space (the universe). We've only scratched the surface of obtaining the knowledge needed to understand whether or not we are alone in the universe. My point is this, the Human Race doesn't need to become too arrogant, we are an intelligent species but sometimes I think we get a lil cocky. For any of us to think that religion or the existence of God is below our level of intellect needs to reevaluate their thought process. Keep an open mind, there are technologies today that would probably get you locked away in a nut house if you traveled back in time 100 years and told people about them.
LOST

Baltimore, MD

#58 Dec 31, 2012
sure wrote:
Allow me? That's hilarious. Look who has a god complex...literally.
Do you realize how ridiculous it is to ask someone (or "allow" them) to provide information to disprove something doesn't exist. Yeah, let me provide evidence that there is no tooth fairy.
You're the one who believes there is a man in the sky who watches our every move so shouldn't you be the one who should provide some evidence? Oh yeah, you can't. It's usually very simple to prove that something does in fact exist when it does. If I want to prove that a cup of coffee exists then I will show you a cup of coffee. Your turn.
Ok, and if you were in a desert with noone around and found a cup of coffee could you definitively say where that coffee came from? Did it just appear? Was it created? Was it simply left, or did it grow and evolve? You can show me a coffee cup, but there had to be a designer of the cup, a grower of the beans, and a barista to brew the coffee. It simply doesn't just exist. Now back to that cup of coffee in the desert. If we consider the desert our universe, and the cup our planet, is it still so easy to say that it just happened? That something as simple as a cup of coffee has to be made, but that something as complex as our planet and life itself are simple enough to just happen? Who's explination seems to make more sense? Mine that says that in some way there has to be a guiding force, or yours that says that things just happen by chance? And please understand that I'm not in any way talking down to you, I believe that you have some valid points, but there is just too much that we don't know to say that there is no way that a God can exist. Could the timeframes be off? Sure. Could it be that we really did come from nothing, but that there was a guiding force that brought us from single celled organisms with no thought patterns to human beings that are capable of doing complex equations to determine the distance from our planet to the nearest star? Certainly. But to say that God simply doesn't exist because we don't know all of the answers is the same thing as saying that the world is only full of the animals that we know of simply because that's all we know.
humble

Southbury, CT

#59 Dec 31, 2012
LOST wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, and if you were in a desert with noone around and found a cup of coffee could you definitively say where that coffee came from? Did it just appear? Was it created? Was it simply left, or did it grow and evolve? You can show me a coffee cup, but there had to be a designer of the cup, a grower of the beans, and a barista to brew the coffee. It simply doesn't just exist. Now back to that cup of coffee in the desert. If we consider the desert our universe, and the cup our planet, is it still so easy to say that it just happened? That something as simple as a cup of coffee has to be made, but that something as complex as our planet and life itself are simple enough to just happen? Who's explination seems to make more sense? Mine that says that in some way there has to be a guiding force, or yours that says that things just happen by chance? And please understand that I'm not in any way talking down to you, I believe that you have some valid points, but there is just too much that we don't know to say that there is no way that a God can exist. Could the timeframes be off? Sure. Could it be that we really did come from nothing, but that there was a guiding force that brought us from single celled organisms with no thought patterns to human beings that are capable of doing complex equations to determine the distance from our planet to the nearest star? Certainly. But to say that God simply doesn't exist because we don't know all of the answers is the same thing as saying that the world is only full of the animals that we know of simply because that's all we know.
Well put. Here's another issue I ponder. Isn't it odd that for such an advanced species we only use a low percentage of our brain's capacity? There's still a lot of knowledge to be learned about how our own bodies work. I've often wondered if God "tuned down" our brains to make it impossible to understand him completely, thus leaving us to be guided by faith instead. These wonders of the world make life way more interesting IMO.. Wouldn't it be boring to know all there is to know? Isn't life about learning and discovering?
LOST

Baltimore, MD

#60 Dec 31, 2012
humble wrote:
<quoted text>
Well put. Here's another issue I ponder. Isn't it odd that for such an advanced species we only use a low percentage of our brain's capacity? There's still a lot of knowledge to be learned about how our own bodies work. I've often wondered if God "tuned down" our brains to make it impossible to understand him completely, thus leaving us to be guided by faith instead. These wonders of the world make life way more interesting IMO.. Wouldn't it be boring to know all there is to know? Isn't life about learning and discovering?
Or let's look at babies. We are the most advanced animal on this planet, yet we don't become self-sufficient until we are around 15 years old (some of us earlier, some later), yet horses that are obviously less evolved than us are self-sufficient in mere hours. This seems counter intuitive to the evolutionary explination to how we came to be, and that makes me wonder. If we are the end all and be all to evolution on this planet, why are our young the most helpless of basically all baby animals on this planet.

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