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humble

Southbury, CT

#1 Dec 26, 2012
I've been on both sides of this discussion before and consider myself an agnostic. My question for atheists is this, how do you cope with losing loved ones? Where do you reach for comfort? How do you find resolve?
Mike

Kingsport, TN

#2 Dec 26, 2012
Simple, shit happens. People have different ways of dealing with problems and for me turning to religion just because of tragedy is a cop out.
humble

Southbury, CT

#3 Dec 26, 2012
Mike wrote:
Simple, shit happens. People have different ways of dealing with problems and for me turning to religion just because of tragedy is a cop out.
So, when members of your family die you just say "Shit Happens" and everything is ok and you have peace of mind?
Patrick

Kingsport, TN

#4 Dec 26, 2012
Mike wrote:
Simple, shit happens. People have different ways of dealing with problems and for me turning to religion just because of tragedy is a cop out.
Nothing more than curious questions. Not one ounce of judging. Frankly, almost 2/3 of Churchity church members are ATHIESTs .... Here's my question. OTHER DIMENSIONS.

Top scientists suggest that there are 11 dimensions, but they really don't go into detail. It's not important. Let me ask it this way.

When I was 7, I was in the backseat of a station wagon traveling. I was lying down and trying to sleep. The car continued to hit bumps and wake me, even if only for a moment. S I was half awake and half asleep. THEN BAMM. I entered into some type of altered state. It was an out of body experience. I could see everything EXTREMELY CLEAR, but also I could see in every single direction all at the same time.

I repeated this experience about 4 times. We were on a two lane highway, flat. When I would enter this state, I could see a red truck coming toward us on the other side of the highway. S I would awake myself somehow and raise up in time to see the very same red truck make its way past us. It happened. It's no big deal, but it happened. I was in ANOTHER STATE.

WAt are your thoughts on this?
Believer

Elizabethton, TN

#5 Dec 26, 2012
Patrick wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing more than curious questions. Not one ounce of judging. Frankly, almost 2/3 of Churchity church members are ATHIESTs .... Here's my question. OTHER DIMENSIONS.
Top scientists suggest that there are 11 dimensions, but they really don't go into detail. It's not important. Let me ask it this way.
When I was 7, I was in the backseat of a station wagon traveling. I was lying down and trying to sleep. The car continued to hit bumps and wake me, even if only for a moment. S I was half awake and half asleep. THEN BAMM. I entered into some type of altered state. It was an out of body experience. I could see everything EXTREMELY CLEAR, but also I could see in every single direction all at the same time.
I repeated this experience about 4 times. We were on a two lane highway, flat. When I would enter this state, I could see a red truck coming toward us on the other side of the highway. S I would awake myself somehow and raise up in time to see the very same red truck make its way past us. It happened. It's no big deal, but it happened. I was in ANOTHER STATE.
WAt are your thoughts on this?
I believe that 'ol station wagon had an exhaust leak just about in the area of the back seat. You weren't in another "state," you were just high off of the fumes.
Believer

Elizabethton, TN

#6 Dec 26, 2012
Mike wrote:
Simple, shit happens. People have different ways of dealing with problems and for me turning to religion just because of tragedy is a cop out.
Why is that so many atheists turn to God when diagnosed with a fatal illness?
Mike

Kingsport, TN

#7 Dec 26, 2012
humble wrote:
<quoted text>
So, when members of your family die you just say "Shit Happens" and everything is ok and you have peace of mind?
I guess I made it a little too simple. People often want to turn and ask questions like why things happen in times of need. The faster you can come to dealing with a situation the better. Some people never get over situations and each person is different. I for one have never been a person to grieve over a death, I have also never had a very close family member die. Life on this planet has died out several times almost reaching times of complete nothing, the part humans have to deal with is thinking they are above nature and immune to the basic fundamentals of the universe.
this is how

Kingsport, TN

#8 Dec 26, 2012
humble wrote:
I've been on both sides of this discussion before and consider myself an agnostic. My question for atheists is this, how do you cope with losing loved ones? Where do you reach for comfort? How do you find resolve?
You find comfort in the same way others do - by reaching out to friends and family. Time passes and wounds heal. The grieving process is pretty much the same except for the part where you tell yourself, "I know I'll see them again someday," or "They're in a better place." If it's someone who was old or ill then "They're no longer suffering" still holds true. Turning to God helps many people deal with death and makes them feel better which is fine. Some people simply don't believe that death is "part of God's plan," but instead that it's just part of life. It can be tragic and heart breaking regardless of what you believe happens afterward.

After the most recent school shooting, I wondered if any of the children's parents or family members were atheists since so much of the healing process revolved around prayer vigils and religious leaders trying to make sense of something that made no sense at all. I find it a little ridiculous to turn to an "all mighty God" for comfort from a tragedy that the same God sat by and watched (theoretically).

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both willing and able? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

I know that many people are religious and have faith so when someone offers to pray for me I accept the offer. I'm not mental so I don't speak up and say, "Don't bother! I don't believe it will work!" Instead, I say, "Thank you" because I know they have good intentions and believe it will help. I know it will not. I appreciate the gesture all the same. I know what will work is getting back up each day, going on with life, and eventually enough time will pass that the first thought when I open my eyes won't be about whatever tragedy or loss I encountered.

LOST

Baltimore, MD

#9 Dec 27, 2012
this is how wrote:
<quoted text>
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
This takes away the idea that we are given free will to do as we please. The world we live in is broken, simple as that. We aren't robots, but that doesn't make God malevolent. It makes us malevolent. If the option of free will is taken away from even one person, then it would need to be taken from all because we are all capable of both good and evil. This comes from the story of Adam and Eve in the garden if you believe that, and if not it simply comes from our human nature. Great people do evil things every day, and some evil people do good things as well. That is the gift of Free Will, and that is why things like Newtown happen, not because God wills it, but because we are provided with the capacity to choose and make decisions both good and bad. So, malevolent? No. Gracious in the fact that we are given the right to choose our path? Yes. Sad that people choose evil over good? Absolutely. But we will never have a decision forced on us because humanity has already chosen to understand Good and Evil (in the garden when the fruit was eaten at the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil), or simply by human nature, take your pick.
wonder woman

United States

#10 Dec 27, 2012
LOST wrote:
<quoted text>This takes away the idea that we are given free will to do as we please. The world we live in is broken, simple as that. We aren't robots, but that doesn't make God malevolent. It makes us malevolent. If the option of free will is taken away from even one person, then it would need to be taken from all because we are all capable of both good and evil. This comes from the story of Adam and Eve in the garden if you believe that, and if not it simply comes from our human nature. Great people do evil things every day, and some evil people do good things as well. That is the gift of Free Will, and that is why things like Newtown happen, not because God wills it, but because we are provided with the capacity to choose and make decisions both good and bad. So, malevolent? No. Gracious in the fact that we are given the right to choose our path? Yes. Sad that people choose evil over good? Absolutely. But we will never have a decision forced on us because humanity has already chosen to understand Good and Evil (in the garden when the fruit was eaten at the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil), or simply by human nature, take your pick.
Great post!!
Celebrate Logic

Johnson City, TN

#11 Dec 27, 2012
When loved ones die, it is easier for me to accept that they are gone forever than believe they are in another world and dont bother to show themselves when Im in such desperate need of their comfort.

Things that create more questions than answers (like a spiritual realm) are so much more painful than accepting that there is no afterlife. The idea that when we die we are gone forever does not bother me as much as living in a delusion did.

It was pure hell when I begged my dead loved ones to show me a sign-- which availed me absolutely nothing anyway. The torture of unanswered prayers hurts so much worse than accepting there is no god. At least this way Im not wondering "Why did god allow this to happen? Am I being punished? Will I ever see my loved one again? Is my loved one burning in hell? Why has god betrayed me so? Etc etc.."

My comfort is in knowing they do not suffer this life as I do, and that someday I will no longer suffer either. None live forever... and when I think about that I am relieved.
Celebrate Logic

Johnson City, TN

#12 Dec 27, 2012
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is that so many atheists turn to God when diagnosed with a fatal illness?
You say that, but in reality you probably do not know even one person who has done as you suggest. Can you cite this (mis)information? Is there any empirical evidence to support this claim? I doubt it. You cant just confabulate misinformation and pass it off as truth just because it supports your god delusion. You might as well quote the bible to support claims the bible makes.. Another great example of Christian logic.

If somebody says something you dont like, just make some $hit up. Perfection.
Believer

Elizabethton, TN

#13 Dec 27, 2012
Celebrate Logic wrote:
<quoted text>
You say that, but in reality you probably do not know even one person who has done as you suggest. Can you cite this (mis)information? Is there any empirical evidence to support this claim? I doubt it. You cant just confabulate misinformation and pass it off as truth just because it supports your god delusion. You might as well quote the bible to support claims the bible makes.. Another great example of Christian logic.
If somebody says something you dont like, just make some $hit up. Perfection.
I can't quote any statistics, but I can tell you as an oncology (cancer) nurse of 31 years that the majority of professed atheists or agnostics requested prayer with a clergyman before their deaths. I witnessed a great many who uncontrollably and openly wept as they opened their hearts to God. I had the opportunity on many occasions to witness to those who truly found God in the latter days of their lives and hear their stories of how they were never quite successful in alleviating all of their doubts about God's existence. My "empirical evidence" has been supported by dozens of other health-care professionals who have also witnessed similar events.
My question wasn't intended to mock your beliefs and I would have hoped you would have been mature enough not to denigrate mine. It is a question that has always bothered me because of the many deathbed conversions I and others in my field have personally witnessed. I was hoping my question would ellicit some intelligent discussions rather than the immature attacks about one's beliefs like the one you posted.
humble

Southbury, CT

#14 Dec 27, 2012
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>I can't quote any statistics, but I can tell you as an oncology (cancer) nurse of 31 years that the majority of professed atheists or agnostics requested prayer with a clergyman before their deaths. I witnessed a great many who uncontrollably and openly wept as they opened their hearts to God. I had the opportunity on many occasions to witness to those who truly found God in the latter days of their lives and hear their stories of how they were never quite successful in alleviating all of their doubts about God's existence. My "empirical evidence" has been supported by dozens of other health-care professionals who have also witnessed similar events.
My question wasn't intended to mock your beliefs and I would have hoped you would have been mature enough not to denigrate mine. It is a question that has always bothered me because of the many deathbed conversions I and others in my field have personally witnessed. I was hoping my question would ellicit some intelligent discussions rather than the immature attacks about one's beliefs like the one you posted.
Wow, that sounds like some pretty powerful encounters. Are you a religious person? If so, do you think it helps you deal with the loss of life in your profession?
Douglas Furr

Dallas, TX

#15 Dec 27, 2012
humble wrote:
My question for atheists is this, how do you cope with losing loved ones? Where do you reach for comfort? How do you find resolve?
Why do Christians cry at funerals?
Douglas Furr

Dallas, TX

#16 Dec 27, 2012
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is that so many atheists turn to God when diagnosed with a fatal illness?
They do?
Believer

Elizabethton, TN

#17 Dec 27, 2012
humble wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, that sounds like some pretty powerful encounters. Are you a religious person? If so, do you think it helps you deal with the loss of life in your profession?
Absolutely! When I first graduated from college and entered the nursing field, I was what you would call a "non-committed" believer in God. I believed, but had never truly opened myself to God. After 31 years in the field and witnessing numerous events that many doctors were only able to deem as miracles, I am a true believer and worshiper.
One of the most powerful events I have ever witnessed though, and it has occurred several times, is when patients state something to the effect, "They're here for me, I must go now," and then pass away shortly thereafter. I have overheard lucid patients talking in a spirtual manner to someone in an empty room and then pass away soon after. Extremely powerful!
humble

Southbury, CT

#18 Dec 27, 2012
Believer wrote:
<quoted text>Absolutely! When I first graduated from college and entered the nursing field, I was what you would call a "non-committed" believer in God. I believed, but had never truly opened myself to God. After 31 years in the field and witnessing numerous events that many doctors were only able to deem as miracles, I am a true believer and worshiper.
One of the most powerful events I have ever witnessed though, and it has occurred several times, is when patients state something to the effect, "They're here for me, I must go now," and then pass away shortly thereafter. I have overheard lucid patients talking in a spirtual manner to someone in an empty room and then pass away soon after. Extremely powerful!
I'm finding it ironic the reason I started this thread was because I found out the 23rd my uncle's bone cancer is beyond cure, and an oncologist nurse commented the same day..
Douglas Furr

Dallas, TX

#19 Dec 27, 2012
humble wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm finding it ironic the reason I started this thread was because I found out the 23rd my uncle's bone cancer is beyond cure, and an oncologist nurse commented the same day..
A "loving God" allowed bone cancer to enter your uncle's body?
LOST

Charlotte, NC

#20 Dec 27, 2012
Douglas Furr wrote:
<quoted text>A "loving God" allowed bone cancer to enter your uncle's body?
Please read my first post. God doesn't "cause" things to happen. Bad things happen because our world is broken. Plain and simple. Don't make something out to be like God is doing something to someone, things happen simply because our world is lost due to the entrance of sin, not because God is mad at us.

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