Evolution vs Bible...Which is correct?

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hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#1 Aug 1, 2012
The "Proof" for evolution continues to fall apart. Things like the Iconic "Lucy" now being proven to not even be in the human family tree...to stuff like this...

Dismantling Whale Evolution - YouTube

► 9:48► 9:48

www.youtube.com/watch...

Evolution is falling apart like sands slipping through Darwins fingers. That is because 21st century science is debunking the 19th century assumptions of evolution.

Even though evolutionist spent the 20th century trying to make the evidence fit the theory (round pegs in square holes), 21st century science is catching up to evolution, and devastating it.

The Bible, on the other hand, continues to be proven to be extremely accurate and reliable. Lets watch a video on how this works out...

Seventy Weeks Of Daniel - YouTube

► 10:54► 10:54

www.youtube.com/watch...

See the difference? It isnt even close.

Now, lets try to have a good debate based on science, and lets keep it civil?
Cujo

Johnson City, TN

#3 Aug 1, 2012
Nobody knows for sure how we came to be. Some people believe aliens dropped us off here several thousand years ago. This is supported in pyramid carvings.
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#4 Aug 1, 2012
Cujo wrote:
Nobody knows for sure how we came to be. Some people believe aliens dropped us off here several thousand years ago. This is supported in pyramid carvings.
Got any pics?
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#6 Aug 2, 2012
Justlooking32 wrote:
Well Everybody's got an opinion and in My opinion I really don't care whether a Person believe's in Evolution or not,I care about how They treat Me and the rest of the World around Them.
Your not just a little curious about it?
Curious

Johnson City, TN

#7 Aug 2, 2012
Honestly, the principles of natural selection are apparent.

I'm a Christian through and through, but I feel that the principles of natural selection SHOULD be believed.

In essence, the next generation advances upon the previous. We build up immunities, gain more intelligence, and improve our technologies. Other animals adapt better to their environment over generations, occasionally getting a coat of fur to better accommodate camouflage in their new environment after a migration or whatever.

These changes are NOT instantaneous, nor are they blaspheming anything. It is literally just advancement from what was laid out before our time, and when looking at history, this is very apparent.

Honestly, I see no reason to say "I am a Christian so evolution is wrong!" or something of the sort. All species and things began in a way. They have changed over the course of time. As a Christian, I believe that God created all of the base species of the Earth. That which we see to day is simply the derivative work of those species, based on adaptations to their environments.

-----

And this is a personal theory of mine, but I should state again that I'm a Christian through and through. I feel that after the initial sin, and our fall from grace as it were, we were forced to adapt more to the harsh realities of the world. Over time, we developed communities, cities, countries, civilizations... all of this is clear in our history. As a Christian, I am taught that we were created in God's image. However, with the gift of free will, we went against God's word. We evolved, over time, adapting and changing. Building up immunities to diseases, learning all about the world's workings...

In other words, I believe that sin was the cause of the human race's evolution. If we remained in the Garden of Eden, things would be far different.

At least, this is how I feel.
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#9 Aug 2, 2012
Or whether what is taught in schoos is correct?

Many kids think the best evidences for evolution are the whale evolution series (already covered in link in post above), and equine (horse evolution) series.

As to horse evolution as it is presented in text books...

The Myth of Horse Evolution - Darwinism Refuted.com

www.darwinismrefuted.com/natural_history_2_12...

Science should be taught based on solid facts. It should also inculcate the students with a curiosity and an open mind, to allow the facts to speak for themselves.

But what the schools are doing is to teach the presupposition that evolution is correct, period.

And then many of them come out of this mis-education experience with closed minds, and are perfectly willing to overlook the obvious flaws in the failed theory. Some are even willing to attack anyone who presents evidence contrary to standard evolutionary dogma.

They even attack the scientist who point out the flaws!

Teaching this mindset to kids in schools isnt education, its mis-education. Its backwards and opposite to what they should be taught.

I care about that, because I care about the kids.

Dont you?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#11 Aug 2, 2012
I'm a Christian no doubt but some part of Darwin's theory can be true like animals evolving Noah couldn't fit all of those animals on the ark so probably after the animals got off the ark they slowly evolved

Example: coyote dog dingo wolf fox

That would be probably how it was done not in that order or anything
Curious

Johnson City, TN

#12 Aug 2, 2012
In all honesty, the majority of evolution likely took place after the Tower of Babel incident. The splitting of the continent caused the relocation of essentially..everyone and every animal. So, after that, it makes sense for real evolution amongst animals to occur. Before that, the evolutions would all be the same, and minor adjustments, mostly with resistance to diseases I'd assume.

Anyway, the concept of evolution - natural selection, is easily seen in nature.

However, when I was in school (I graduated 2010, by the way), we were taught that evolution is a THEORY. And honestly? It doesn't conflict with any belief system, nor does it say something as ignorant as "we came from monkeys gurdurr." It was never presented as true fact.

In all honesty, I learned the majority of what I did about evolution during my 6th and 9th grade years. In 6th, my teacher well explained natural selection and examples of it. That it was not some radical change, but simply gradual adaptation to environments and the survival of the fittest so to speak. And in 9th, while my teacher was a bit crazy at times, he was a damn good teacher. Nothing in specific I need to mention, but he solidified my previous ideas and such.

Anyway, I think evolution should be present in all textbooks. However, it should clearly be presented as a THEORY. Not fact. There is a reason it isn't the law of evolution, after all. Popular theories like that really should be taught in school. Why should we leave a child ignorant of a theory such as that...? That seems pretty foolish.
Curious

Johnson City, TN

#13 Aug 2, 2012
Justlooking32 wrote:
<quoted text>Well in My opinion U don't care about the Kids,What U are really interested in is indoctrinating Kids 2 hold 2 Ur set of Beliefs.
Also, dude, start using words, not U and 2. It seriously makes you look 10. I don't mean to sound rude, but people aren't gonna take you seriously like this. You don't have to sound like a robot or anything, or even post in proper sentence structure, but for your benefit, you might wanna actually type out "two" and "you." Half the time, people are just gonna look at the way you post and ignore it.

And hey, a lot of people think of it this way: "are you really so lazy that you can't press two more buttons?"

So yeah. For your benefit, at least do that lol
IcuRambler

Panama City, FL

#14 Aug 5, 2012
I think evolution has been being debunked since it started coming out. Science very clearly points out that evolution cant be true. Things such as the laws of thermodynamics (First law says that energy can not be created or destroyed but only change forms) So where did the initial energy come from to create the earth? Not to mention that evolution is simply against mathematical odds. For a simple protoplasm it has 253 DNA chains that must be in correct order. there are 4 possible complexes in a 3 part chain that must be in order. so the odds of that happening even once is 1:12 so then multiply 12x12x12x12x12x12 and so on for 253 times just 12x12(for 14 times put the odds in the trillions) now multiply those numbers for things like say humans that have thousands of strands of DNA complexes. math doesn't agree with evolution
Next do you think the sun us shrinking or growing. i am not sure of the rate but use say 1" in diameter per 1000 years. i have heard that evolutionary estimates say the earth is at least 60 billion years old. using those numbers the suns diameter would approx 947 miles larger then it is now.meaning it would be almost 1000 miles closer to earth with that much more heat coming everything on earth would have been cooked.
Next just think about this. say a chicken did evolve over a million years. how did that chicken evolve to reproduce if it took a million years to make a mate for it? All creatures where asexual except for the last few thousand years? There are many examples of animals how this could not happen because of their mating styles as well.
There are many more reasons why to list, shoot there are even books and movies produced about this. Ben Steins movie "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed " goes over a few things as well. He even points out that many professors say that the longer they study things like biology the more they realize evolution cant be true. these aren't ordinary run of the mill people. there are several prestigious college professors saying that.
Last, I do believe in Micro evolution. This is undeniable. this is basically the thought that people adapt to their environment. This is easily shown by go live in say northern Maine for 20 years and you will grow that as the temps get higher then say 50, you will start feeling hot and sweating. inversely go live in south Florida for 20 years and you will start feeling cold when it gets below 80 degrees. there are many more examples but that is just a basic one.
That being said, I do believe in Intelligent design. I happen to believe in the Judeo-Christian version in the Bible. There are many proofs of science proving true what the Bible has said so if a few are right then i have to agree that all are right if they are not disprove.
Science

Johnson City, TN

#15 Aug 5, 2012
I really don't think there's an argument. God did whatever he did. A fool says that there is no God. Anyone who thinks that things happen by themselves, is just plain wrong. God is the Cause of Every affect in the Universe, nothing lives outside of his will except mankind and Satans followers. Like Mike Huckabee. I believe that Huckabee does the daily will of Satan by causing this great division that we have in the USA. I'd never lift. Finger to hurt him, but I will rejoice in the day that I get the news that he has a terminal and painful liver disease that will allow us to watch him rot in agony before he dies and is shipped off to hell...anyhow, evolution and God co exist....if you were a supreme being and you wanted to start a book like genesis to explain our existence, about all you could do is hit the highlights. You wouldn't go into quantum physics nor dinosaurs and all that crap....or even evolution....god exists so does evolution and for mike Huckabee....a very, very special place in pit awaits him.......go out there and make it a great day, children of God..
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#16 Aug 5, 2012
DLC121990 wrote:
I'm a Christian no doubt but some part of Darwin's theory can be true like animals evolving Noah couldn't fit all of those animals on the ark so probably after the animals got off the ark they slowly evolved
Example: coyote dog dingo wolf fox
That would be probably how it was done not in that order or anything
That isnt really evolution, is it?

That is simply a breeding excercise. If these different canines can be bred back to more or less original canine (we can indeed breed dog to wolf, etc), then there is no evolution.

Evolution is a one way street.

It also add genetic information to the genome, with a trend towards ever increasing complexity and speciation (entirely new species).

So, we see no evolution here.

As to the Ark, it certainly was capable of caerrying the "kinds" of animals to be preserved. And remember, not all animals had to go in to start with.

Some videos on the subject...

Inside Noah's Ark - Part I - YouTube
&#9658; 1:32&#9658; 1:32

www.youtube.com/watch...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part II - YouTube
&#9658; 0:41&#9658; 0:41

www.youtube.com/watch...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part III- YouTube
&#9658; 1:00&#9658; 1:00

www.youtube.com/watch...

Inside Noah's Ark - Part IV - YouTube
&#9658; 2:06&#9658; 2:06
www.youtube.com/watch...

Inside Noah's Ark - Part V.flv - YouTube

&#9658; 1:41&#9658; 1:41

www.youtube.com/watch...

And that will get you started in the series
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#17 Aug 5, 2012
Curious wrote:
In all honesty, the majority of evolution likely took place after the Tower of Babel incident. The splitting of the continent caused the relocation of essentially..everyone and every animal. So, after that, it makes sense for real evolution amongst animals to occur. Before that, the evolutions would all be the same, and minor adjustments, mostly with resistance to diseases I'd assume.
Anyway, the concept of evolution - natural selection, is easily seen in nature.
However, when I was in school (I graduated 2010, by the way), we were taught that evolution is a THEORY. And honestly? It doesn't conflict with any belief system, nor does it say something as ignorant as "we came from monkeys gurdurr." It was never presented as true fact.
In all honesty, I learned the majority of what I did about evolution during my 6th and 9th grade years. In 6th, my teacher well explained natural selection and examples of it. That it was not some radical change, but simply gradual adaptation to environments and the survival of the fittest so to speak. And in 9th, while my teacher was a bit crazy at times, he was a damn good teacher. Nothing in specific I need to mention, but he solidified my previous ideas and such.
Anyway, I think evolution should be present in all textbooks. However, it should clearly be presented as a THEORY. Not fact. There is a reason it isn't the law of evolution, after all. Popular theories like that really should be taught in school. Why should we leave a child ignorant of a theory such as that...? That seems pretty foolish.
To start with, evolution does indeed conflicy with Judeo-Christian belief systems. To say otherwise is to speak from ignorance.

As to natural selection, that also conflicts with Judeo-Christian teachings. Natural selection implies that God simply winds up the cosmos, and then just steps back and lets things run their course.

This is Gnosticism, the opposite of Judeo-Christian teachings. Ponder this verse...

..."Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God"...Luke 12:6

..."Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father"...Matthew 10:29

..."Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?"...Matthew 6:26

..."Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these"...Luke 12:27

So, for those who imagine a Creator that just wound up the cosmos and forgot it, this is in conflict with the clear teachings of the Bible. God is active in every minute thing, and watches and sees everything...

..."For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest"...Isaiah 18:4
HereNow

Johnson City, TN

#18 Aug 6, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
That isnt really evolution, is it?
That is simply a breeding excercise. If these different canines can be bred back to more or less original canine (we can indeed breed dog to wolf, etc), then there is no evolution.
Evolution is a one way street.
It also add genetic information to the genome, with a trend towards ever increasing complexity and speciation (entirely new species).
So, we see no evolution here.
As to the Ark, it certainly was capable of caerrying the "kinds" of animals to be preserved. And remember, not all animals had to go in to start with.
Some videos on the subject...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part I - YouTube
&#9658; 1:32&#9658; 1:32
www.youtube.com/watch...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part II - YouTube
&#9658; 0:41&#9658; 0:41
www.youtube.com/watch...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part III- YouTube
&#9658; 1:00&#9658; 1:00
www.youtube.com/watch...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part IV - YouTube
&#9658; 2:06&#9658; 2:06
www.youtube.com/watch...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part V.flv - YouTube
&#9658; 1:41&#9658; 1:41
www.youtube.com/watch...
And that will get you started in the series
Welp. I guess no one actually knows anything about the theory of evolution. "Matter being created and destroyed" Blah Blah Blah. What complete bull. Firstly, it is obvious that most of you have no clue what the theory of evolution is. Why? Because the theory of evolution NEVER states how life began, it also does not state that humans evolved from monkeys, as most church organizations would have you believe. So, before you try to "debunk" a theory, know it. Also, children in school should be taught a broad range of things, and then told to investigate what they think and believe is true, allowing them to use their own brain. Then when they come up with an idea, be it Godly or not, they can provide reasonable arguments, because they have the background to do so. And believe me, I would hope examining the world would make them stronger believers in God. It would make them much stronger in all their convictions, really. It is obvious most people have never done this, and that is the sad part. A bunch of mindless drones, following the "leader."
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#19 Aug 6, 2012
HereNow wrote:
<quoted text>
Welp. I guess no one actually knows anything about the theory of evolution. "Matter being created and destroyed" Blah Blah Blah. What complete bull. Firstly, it is obvious that most of you have no clue what the theory of evolution is. Why? Because the theory of evolution NEVER states how life began, it also does not state that humans evolved from monkeys, as most church organizations would have you believe. So, before you try to "debunk" a theory, know it. Also, children in school should be taught a broad range of things, and then told to investigate what they think and believe is true, allowing them to use their own brain. Then when they come up with an idea, be it Godly or not, they can provide reasonable arguments, because they have the background to do so. And believe me, I would hope examining the world would make them stronger believers in God. It would make them much stronger in all their convictions, really. It is obvious most people have never done this, and that is the sad part. A bunch of mindless drones, following the "leader."
The usual evolution debate is one where the Christians present scientific evidence to support our position. The atheist simply avoid the scientific part of the discussion (they dont know enough science to make a decent debate). What the atheist use in leiu of scientific evidence is...slurrs, insults, and the old "You dont understand evolution" saw.

(Thats not really the same as scientific evidence, is it?)

Here is a clue, dude. The myth of equine (horse) evolution was debunked in post number 9.

Why dont you stop with the insults and the philosophy, and give us some science to support evolution theory?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#20 Aug 6, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>That isnt really evolution, is it?

That is simply a breeding excercise. If these different canines can be bred back to more or less original canine (we can indeed breed dog to wolf, etc), then there is no evolution.

Evolution is a one way street.

It also add genetic information to the genome, with a trend towards ever increasing complexity and speciation (entirely new species).

So, we see no evolution here.

As to the Ark, it certainly was capable of caerrying the "kinds" of animals to be preserved. And remember, not all animals had to go in to start with.

Some videos on the subject...

Inside Noah's Ark - Part I - YouTube
&#9658; 1:32&#9658; 1:32

www.youtube.com/watch...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part II - YouTube
&#9658; 0:41&#9658; 0:41

www.youtube.com/watch...
Inside Noah's Ark - Part III- YouTube
&#9658; 1:00&#9658; 1:00

www.youtube.com/watch...

Inside Noah's Ark - Part IV - YouTube
&#9658; 2:06&#9658; 2:06
www.youtube.com/watch...

Inside Noah's Ark - Part V.flv - YouTube

&#9658; 1:41&#9658; 1:41

www.youtube.com/watch...

And that will get you started in the series
You are right it's more of a breeding
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#21 Aug 6, 2012
We do see more and more stuff being pointed to by evolutionist as evidence for evolution, when it really isnt.

That is a grasping at straws tactic, in an attempt to save the public appearance of a failed theory. The actual science behind evolution is long failed, but they just dont want the appearance of validity to fail in the eyes of the general public.

If that were to happen, then government funding would be cut.

As to anti-biotic resistant bacteria being used as evidence for evolution,well, that isnt the true case either.

To start with, selection proess only uses genetic information that is already there (mutations were already part of the genome). The mutation didnt evolve, it was already there before the selection process began. One can look into the "junk DNA" for that.

And secondly, anti-biotic resistant bacteria is actually another dead end for evolution. If anything, it disproves the failed theory. Here is a scientific video to explain it for our evolutionist freinds who might not know...



Creation vs Evolution - Antibiotic Resistant Bacteria - YouTube

&#9658; 5:48&#9658; 5:48

www.youtube.com/watch...

So there we go, another dead end for evolution, though it continues to get hype and spin as evidence to support it.

And that is the true state of a failed theory. This being just another example.
HereNow

Johnson City, TN

#22 Aug 6, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
Or whether what is taught in schoos is correct?
Many kids think the best evidences for evolution are the whale evolution series (already covered in link in post above), and equine (horse evolution) series.
As to horse evolution as it is presented in text books...
The Myth of Horse Evolution - Darwinism Refuted.com
www.darwinismrefuted.com/natural_history_2_12...
Science should be taught based on solid facts. It should also inculcate the students with a curiosity and an open mind, to allow the facts to speak for themselves.
But what the schools are doing is to teach the presupposition that evolution is correct, period.
And then many of them come out of this mis-education experience with closed minds, and are perfectly willing to overlook the obvious flaws in the failed theory. Some are even willing to attack anyone who presents evidence contrary to standard evolutionary dogma.
They even attack the scientist who point out the flaws!
Teaching this mindset to kids in schools isnt education, its mis-education. Its backwards and opposite to what they should be taught.
I care about that, because I care about the kids.
Dont you?
There is plenty of science that supports evolution. Millions of scientists themselves support it, otherwise, it couldn't even make it so far as to be a theory. You say above, "People should be taught the facts." Only people like YOU believe in facts. None of us were around 100 years ago, a 1000 years ago, a million years ago. Is that hard to understand? There are no such thing as "facts." Zero. I don't know where you went to school, but I was never taught that evolution was fact. You learn in the study of science that we theorize, just as people theorize about God and life and whatever else. We take other peoples word for things, then believe what we want to believe. That's what you do too. Don't fool yourself. You want fact, then pray that God will open the sky and reveal to us all the real story so we all know it. It may happen someday, but until then, there are no such things as facts.

People like you really support both sides of the road, too. Not because you want everyone to believe your creation theory, but because you use science every single day. You are right now, as you view this text on your computer. You drive a car, you talk on a cellular phone. It works by transmission of wavelength and frequency, which you cannot see, but believe in because the science is in your hand to prove it. You visit a doctor, I assume? We are keeping people alive years upon years longer because of scientific principles. Yet, when you choose to believe science is not real, you do. There are many scientific theories, all based on the scientific principles, the same things that bring us new drugs, procedures, technologies, etc. BUT, there are certain theories we cannot really prove, just cant. We never will. It will be a circular argument until another asteroid hits to kill us all or until Jesus comes back. Just as you cannot prove creation theory, we cannot prove evolution. There are no absolute facts, just evidence. And just maybe there is evidence for both?? But seriously, to be so small minded? I believe in the possibility of many possibilities. It keeps me humble, because, unlike you, I do not claim to know everything.
hillbillyboy

Elizabethton, TN

#23 Aug 6, 2012
HereNow wrote:
<quoted text>
There is plenty of science that supports evolution. Millions of scientists themselves support it, otherwise, it couldn't even make it so far as to be a theory. You say above, "People should be taught the facts." Only people like YOU believe in facts. None of us were around 100 years ago, a 1000 years ago, a million years ago. Is that hard to understand? There are no such thing as "facts." Zero. I don't know where you went to school, but I was never taught that evolution was fact. You learn in the study of science that we theorize, just as people theorize about God and life and whatever else. We take other peoples word for things, then believe what we want to believe. That's what you do too. Don't fool yourself. You want fact, then pray that God will open the sky and reveal to us all the real story so we all know it. It may happen someday, but until then, there are no such things as facts.
People like you really support both sides of the road, too. Not because you want everyone to believe your creation theory, but because you use science every single day. You are right now, as you view this text on your computer. You drive a car, you talk on a cellular phone. It works by transmission of wavelength and frequency, which you cannot see, but believe in because the science is in your hand to prove it. You visit a doctor, I assume? We are keeping people alive years upon years longer because of scientific principles. Yet, when you choose to believe science is not real, you do. There are many scientific theories, all based on the scientific principles, the same things that bring us new drugs, procedures, technologies, etc. BUT, there are certain theories we cannot really prove, just cant. We never will. It will be a circular argument until another asteroid hits to kill us all or until Jesus comes back. Just as you cannot prove creation theory, we cannot prove evolution. There are no absolute facts, just evidence. And just maybe there is evidence for both?? But seriously, to be so small minded? I believe in the possibility of many possibilities. It keeps me humble, because, unlike you, I do not claim to know everything.
I saw in your post that you used the old "Appeal to Authority" debating tactic in assuming that millions of scientist support evolution theory (sources please?).

(Actually, most researchers and scientist work in feilds unrelated to evolution theory, and probably couldnt care less about it)

As to the rest of it, the post seemed to just sort of ramble on. I didnt see any specific scientific stuff to talk about in there anywhere.

I failed to see where me being able to read the text on the computer has any relevance to evolution theory?

You did make a point that I agree with though, in that I wasnt around a million years ago. True. But neither were any scientist, for that matter. So that means that evolution theory is not observeable (hence not scientific, according to the scientific requirements of falsification).

Good point on that.

But I did at least see a common decency in your post, and I think you are a clever fellow. You didnt go off the edge on wild insults too much. That is good.

So, I tell you what...why dont you bring something specific and scientific to the table, and we shall have a go at examining it?

Here we go then! The ball is in your court. Bring us a tidbit of science that we can sink our teeth into, and we shall show these fine fellows here how to have a good debate on science stuff?
dumbmule

Johnson City, TN

#24 Aug 11, 2012
hillbillyboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I saw in your post that you used the old "Appeal to Authority" debating tactic in assuming that millions of scientist support evolution theory (sources please?).
(Actually, most researchers and scientist work in feilds unrelated to evolution theory, and probably couldnt care less about it)
As to the rest of it, the post seemed to just sort of ramble on. I didnt see any specific scientific stuff to talk about in there anywhere.
I failed to see where me being able to read the text on the computer has any relevance to evolution theory?
You did make a point that I agree with though, in that I wasnt around a million years ago. True. But neither were any scientist, for that matter. So that means that evolution theory is not observeable (hence not scientific, according to the scientific requirements of falsification).
Good point on that.
But I did at least see a common decency in your post, and I think you are a clever fellow. You didnt go off the edge on wild insults too much. That is good.
So, I tell you what...why dont you bring something specific and scientific to the table, and we shall have a go at examining it?
Here we go then! The ball is in your court. Bring us a tidbit of science that we can sink our teeth into, and we shall show these fine fellows here how to have a good debate on science stuff?
Very well said, couldn't agree more!

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